If this is true, we are in trouble...

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well if you were born poor, what system would you prefer to be poor under, Communism or capitalism? If you're born poor under Communism, that's the way you're going to stay because there is no way out of it. Capitalism just the opposite.

At this rate Capitalism looks even more hopeless than Communism.

Why?
A.) Capitalism will eventually outsource all the decent jobs which doesn't happen in Communism.

B.) Capitalism is leading to cultural replacement by immigrants here for cheap labor.

That has little to do with capitalism. That has to do with the American consumer.

Since the 80's, our country has become obsessed with cheap. I don't care where it's made, what the quality, just sell it to me as cheap as possible.

So you and I are competitors in the widget business. You pay your workers well and offer great benefits. I decide to move my operations overseas. Now I start taking your customers because I can produce my widgets and ship them back to the US for half the cost it takes to make yours. Now you have two choices: move overseas like I did, or join your former employees in the Unemployment Line.

That's the problem.

and the fix is simple, put tariffs on the foreign built crap, or don't buy it and opt for quality at a higher price.

Or promote Buy American which Trump should have been doing all along. The problem is that he can't due to his past business dealings.

Actually he has been promoting buy American, have you listened to any of his rallys? If you have a 401K, you probably have foreign business dealings, almost all of us do and there is nothing wrong with that for us or Trump.

I don't blame Trump, it's just that you know how the media will turn that around on him.

Trump stated when he joined the race that his foreign made products were necessary to be on a level playing field with his competitors. He was absolutely correct.

 

[Redfish]

Capitalism has proven to be about as bad as Communism for the West.

Communists also went decade after decade with no growth of the economy.

Capitalism may have helped build America it will also help destroy America too.

Well if you were born poor, what system would you prefer to be poor under, Communism or capitalism? If you're born poor under Communism, that's the way you're going to stay because there is no way out of it. Capitalism just the opposite.

At this rate Capitalism looks even more hopeless than Communism.

Why?
A.) Capitalism will eventually outsource all the decent jobs which doesn't happen in Communism.

B.) Capitalism is leading to cultural replacement by immigrants here for cheap labor.

That has little to do with capitalism. That has to do with the American consumer.

Since the 80's, our country has become obsessed with cheap. I don't care where it's made, what the quality, just sell it to me as cheap as possible.

So you and I are competitors in the widget business. You pay your workers well and offer great benefits. I decide to move my operations overseas. Now I start taking your customers because I can produce my widgets and ship them back to the US for half the cost it takes to make yours. Now you have two choices: move overseas like I did, or join your former employees in the Unemployment Line.

That's the problem.

and the fix is simple, put tariffs on the foreign built crap, or don't buy it and opt for quality at a higher price.

Even easier criminalize outsourcing throw a few bastids behind bars & problem solved by example

that is a socialist tactic, but you are a socialist, so I understand why you would suggest that.

 

[Foxfyre]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

This stuff has been true for a long time

Americans do not save
Do not like to save

Not much to save at times.

When I think back to being a teen in the 70's, what did we have? We had a television set, a landline telephone, a stereo with an 8-track player. Most of us were one-car families and ate out about three of four times a year. Maybe went to the movies about eight or ten times a year.

What do we spend our money on today that we didn't have back then? Family cell phone plans with smart phones for every member of the family. Cable or satellite television with 400 stations. Three video game systems complete with game cartridges. Pay-per-view movie channels. Netflix. The internet. Big screen televisions. A car for every adult member in the family. Fast food restaurants a half-dozen times a week or more.

Do people realize how much money we would all have if we lived like we did in the 70's?

Amen and Amen. The problem is NOT low wages. The problem is attitude and mind set and basic values that determine what is really important.

I have lived paycheck to paycheck but we did live. The fact is most families can manage with one car, without smart phones, without cable TV that alone costs more per month than we had to live on when we first started out. You don't have to eat out and it is possible to eat quite well on very little money if you manage properly and don't require the fancier foods.

We didn't have credit cards back then but had layaway plans at Sears and J.C. Penney so whatever we took home was paid for. What few charge accounts existed were controlled by local merchants who got paid every month or they cancelled your credit so it was hard to get into serious trouble financially. I can recall how amazing it was when we got our first gas card making going on vacation simpler. But we paid for our very infrequent motel rooms with cash or travelers checks and wrote a check for each of our monthly bills and purchases.

The government did absolutely nothing for us for day to day needs and expenses and we didn't expect it to. Many many of us started out dirt poor, but nobody stayed poor indefinitely because we expected to do what was necessary to achieve and improve our standard of living and everybody did.

What we need is one huge national attitude adjustment instead of living on the edge and then expecting the government to fix everything for us.

 

[Redfish]

At this rate Capitalism looks even more hopeless than Communism.

Why?
A.) Capitalism will eventually outsource all the decent jobs which doesn't happen in Communism.

B.) Capitalism is leading to cultural replacement by immigrants here for cheap labor.

That has little to do with capitalism. That has to do with the American consumer.

Since the 80's, our country has become obsessed with cheap. I don't care where it's made, what the quality, just sell it to me as cheap as possible.

So you and I are competitors in the widget business. You pay your workers well and offer great benefits. I decide to move my operations overseas. Now I start taking your customers because I can produce my widgets and ship them back to the US for half the cost it takes to make yours. Now you have two choices: move overseas like I did, or join your former employees in the Unemployment Line.

That's the problem.

and the fix is simple, put tariffs on the foreign built crap, or don't buy it and opt for quality at a higher price.

Or promote Buy American which Trump should have been doing all along. The problem is that he can't due to his past business dealings.

Actually he has been promoting buy American, have you listened to any of his rallys? If you have a 401K, you probably have foreign business dealings, almost all of us do and there is nothing wrong with that for us or Trump.

I don't blame Trump, it's just that you know how the media will turn that around on him.

Trump stated when he joined the race that his foreign made products were necessary to be on a level playing field with his competitors. He was absolutely correct.

yes, under the Obama/bush trade policies it was the only way for an American corporation to survive. That is being fixed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Tehon has admitted that he supports a scenario where communists take over and those who hold counter revolutionary thoughts will be "dealt with".

He dodged when I asked him if he would support his communist government going though the archives of this site and others like it, and arresting those with the wrong views.

He supports an outcome that he knows will likely result in mine and Morrison's death.


And you are attacking US for saying we would fight that?

To be clear.

I support a scenario where society decides that the capitalist system is failing to meet our needs and moves in the direction of a new social relationship that does meet our needs.

I do not support a scenario where a minority gains control and imposes its will on society.

Socialism is a wonderful system until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

Correct, if you're the one getting the money. After all, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

You mean like corporate welfare, little dupe?

Welfare is when I (through government) gives something to somebody that they never had before. Taking less from people is not welfare.

 

[deltex1]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

I thought Obama fixed all these things...how disappointing.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

This stuff has been true for a long time

Americans do not save
Do not like to save

Not much to save at times.

When I think back to being a teen in the 70's, what did we have? We had a television set, a landline telephone, a stereo with an 8-track player. Most of us were one-car families and ate out about three of four times a year. Maybe went to the movies about eight or ten times a year.

What do we spend our money on today that we didn't have back then? Family cell phone plans with smart phones for every member of the family. Cable or satellite television with 400 stations. Three video game systems complete with game cartridges. Pay-per-view movie channels. Netflix. The internet. Big screen televisions. A car for every adult member in the family. Fast food restaurants a half-dozen times a week or more.

Do people realize how much money we would all have if we lived like we did in the 70's?

Amen and Amen. The problem is NOT low wages. The problem is attitude and mind set and basic values that determine what is really important.

I have lived paycheck to paycheck but we did live. The fact is most families can manage with one car, without smart phones, without cable TV that alone costs more per month than we had to live on when we first started out. You don't have to eat out and it is possible to eat quite well on very little money if you manage properly and don't require the fancier foods.

We didn't have credit cards back then but had layaway plans at Sears and J.C. Penney so whatever we took home was paid for. What few charge accounts existed were controlled by local merchants who got paid every month or they cancelled your credit so it was hard to get into serious trouble financially. I can recall how amazing it was when we got our first gas card making going on vacation simpler. But we paid for our very infrequent motel rooms with cash or travelers checks and wrote a check for each of our monthly bills and purchases.

The government did absolutely nothing for us for day to day needs and expenses and we didn't expect it to. Many many of us started out dirt poor, but nobody stayed poor indefinitely because we expected to do what was necessary to achieve and improve our standard of living and everybody did.

What we need is one huge national attitude adjustment instead of living on the edge and then expecting the government to fix everything for us.

And people were more frugal to boot. We turned the heat down at night and if the house was empty. Mom would sit there for hours cutting out coupons from the paper. If you weren't using a room in the house, you turned the lights off.

The millennials today are very wasteful. I'm a landlord and I can testify to this personally. My one tenant who lives below me leaves their basement lights on 24/7. When they are not home, I hear the furnace turning on all the time when it's really not that cold. I've seen their window AC on when it's 72 and beautiful outside. We didn't do things like that.

 

[Tehon]

You guys are fantasizing. You paste a fake label of communist on people without thinking what you are doing, then fantasize acting upon it...with guns. If that ain't MOB RULE, I don't know what is.

Tehon has admitted that he supports a scenario where communists take over and those who hold counter revolutionary thoughts will be "dealt with".

He dodged when I asked him if he would support his communist government going though the archives of this site and others like it, and arresting those with the wrong views.

He supports an outcome that he knows will likely result in mine and Morrison's death.


And you are attacking US for saying we would fight that?

To be clear.

I support a scenario where society decides that the capitalist system is failing to meet our needs and moves in the direction of a new social relationship that does meet our needs.

I do not support a scenario where a minority gains control and imposes its will on society.

Socialism is a wonderful system until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

Correct, if you're the one getting the money. After all, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

Money, in the form it takes now, will be abolished as well.

 

[Lysistrata]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Those stats sound right. There is however nothing in current tax policy or national policy that strengthens the middle class

But no doubt the thought is comforting

lower taxes and more jobs does not help the middle class?????????? really?????

Only if they contribute to more money in the pockets of the middle and lower classes for the work that they do every day.

 

[Tehon]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

This stuff has been true for a long time

Americans do not save
Do not like to save

Not much to save at times.

When I think back to being a teen in the 70's, what did we have? We had a television set, a landline telephone, a stereo with an 8-track player. Most of us were one-car families and ate out about three of four times a year. Maybe went to the movies about eight or ten times a year.

What do we spend our money on today that we didn't have back then? Family cell phone plans with smart phones for every member of the family. Cable or satellite television with 400 stations. Three video game systems complete with game cartridges. Pay-per-view movie channels. Netflix. The internet. Big screen televisions. A car for every adult member in the family. Fast food restaurants a half-dozen times a week or more.

Do people realize how much money we would all have if we lived like we did in the 70's?

Amen and Amen. The problem is NOT low wages. The problem is attitude and mind set and basic values that determine what is really important.

I have lived paycheck to paycheck but we did live. The fact is most families can manage with one car, without smart phones, without cable TV that alone costs more per month than we had to live on when we first started out. You don't have to eat out and it is possible to eat quite well on very little money if you manage properly and don't require the fancier foods.

We didn't have credit cards back then but had layaway plans at Sears and J.C. Penney so whatever we took home was paid for. What few charge accounts existed were controlled by local merchants who got paid every month or they cancelled your credit so it was hard to get into serious trouble financially. I can recall how amazing it was when we got our first gas card making going on vacation simpler. But we paid for our very infrequent motel rooms with cash or travelers checks and wrote a check for each of our monthly bills and purchases.

The government did absolutely nothing for us for day to day needs and expenses and we didn't expect it to. Many many of us started out dirt poor, but nobody stayed poor indefinitely because we expected to do what was necessary to achieve and improve our standard of living and everybody did.

What we need is one huge national attitude adjustment instead of living on the edge and then expecting the government to fix everything for us.

Everyone, get used to being poor! In a nation of extreme wealth.

 

[Theowl32]

To be clear.

I support a scenario where society decides that the capitalist system is failing to meet our needs and moves in the direction of a new social relationship that does meet our needs.

I do not support a scenario where a minority gains control and imposes its will on society.

Socialism is a wonderful system until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

Correct, if you're the one getting the money. After all, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

You mean like corporate welfare, little dupe?

please give us your definition of corporate welfare, I will anxiously await your response.

He is just parroting the democrat jargon and their text book cliches.

They have no idea. Trust me, all of these assholes never worked for their money.

They are clueless what the poor class needs. Their masters in the democrat party also known their greatest threat is that middle class. Turn the middle class into the serf class, then buy them too.

Right now the obamacare and preexisting issue is the mountain that will be IMPOSSIBLE to climb.

Been saying it for a while now. Trust me, that is a major issue. That was why Biden said it was a big fucking deal. Canceling that would be an absolute third rail issue.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Tehon has admitted that he supports a scenario where communists take over and those who hold counter revolutionary thoughts will be "dealt with".

He dodged when I asked him if he would support his communist government going though the archives of this site and others like it, and arresting those with the wrong views.

He supports an outcome that he knows will likely result in mine and Morrison's death.


And you are attacking US for saying we would fight that?

To be clear.

I support a scenario where society decides that the capitalist system is failing to meet our needs and moves in the direction of a new social relationship that does meet our needs.

I do not support a scenario where a minority gains control and imposes its will on society.

Socialism is a wonderful system until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

Correct, if you're the one getting the money. After all, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

Money, in the form it takes now, will be abolished as well.

I don't think so. It will happen at some point, but not right now.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

This stuff has been true for a long time

Americans do not save
Do not like to save

Not much to save at times.

When I think back to being a teen in the 70's, what did we have? We had a television set, a landline telephone, a stereo with an 8-track player. Most of us were one-car families and ate out about three of four times a year. Maybe went to the movies about eight or ten times a year.

What do we spend our money on today that we didn't have back then? Family cell phone plans with smart phones for every member of the family. Cable or satellite television with 400 stations. Three video game systems complete with game cartridges. Pay-per-view movie channels. Netflix. The internet. Big screen televisions. A car for every adult member in the family. Fast food restaurants a half-dozen times a week or more.

Do people realize how much money we would all have if we lived like we did in the 70's?

Amen and Amen. The problem is NOT low wages. The problem is attitude and mind set and basic values that determine what is really important.

I have lived paycheck to paycheck but we did live. The fact is most families can manage with one car, without smart phones, without cable TV that alone costs more per month than we had to live on when we first started out. You don't have to eat out and it is possible to eat quite well on very little money if you manage properly and don't require the fancier foods.

We didn't have credit cards back then but had layaway plans at Sears and J.C. Penney so whatever we took home was paid for. What few charge accounts existed were controlled by local merchants who got paid every month or they cancelled your credit so it was hard to get into serious trouble financially. I can recall how amazing it was when we got our first gas card making going on vacation simpler. But we paid for our very infrequent motel rooms with cash or travelers checks and wrote a check for each of our monthly bills and purchases.

The government did absolutely nothing for us for day to day needs and expenses and we didn't expect it to. Many many of us started out dirt poor, but nobody stayed poor indefinitely because we expected to do what was necessary to achieve and improve our standard of living and everybody did.

What we need is one huge national attitude adjustment instead of living on the edge and then expecting the government to fix everything for us.

Everyone, get used to being poor! In a nation of extreme wealth.

In a capitalist society, poverty is a choice, not a mandate.

 

[Redfish]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Those stats sound right. There is however nothing in current tax policy or national policy that strengthens the middle class

But no doubt the thought is comforting

lower taxes and more jobs does not help the middle class?????????? really?????

Only if they contribute to more money in the pockets of the middle and lower classes for the work that they do every day.

they do. lower taxes, higher pay, bonuses. its working for real americans.

 

[Redfish]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

This stuff has been true for a long time

Americans do not save
Do not like to save

Not much to save at times.

When I think back to being a teen in the 70's, what did we have? We had a television set, a landline telephone, a stereo with an 8-track player. Most of us were one-car families and ate out about three of four times a year. Maybe went to the movies about eight or ten times a year.

What do we spend our money on today that we didn't have back then? Family cell phone plans with smart phones for every member of the family. Cable or satellite television with 400 stations. Three video game systems complete with game cartridges. Pay-per-view movie channels. Netflix. The internet. Big screen televisions. A car for every adult member in the family. Fast food restaurants a half-dozen times a week or more.

Do people realize how much money we would all have if we lived like we did in the 70's?

Amen and Amen. The problem is NOT low wages. The problem is attitude and mind set and basic values that determine what is really important.

I have lived paycheck to paycheck but we did live. The fact is most families can manage with one car, without smart phones, without cable TV that alone costs more per month than we had to live on when we first started out. You don't have to eat out and it is possible to eat quite well on very little money if you manage properly and don't require the fancier foods.

We didn't have credit cards back then but had layaway plans at Sears and J.C. Penney so whatever we took home was paid for. What few charge accounts existed were controlled by local merchants who got paid every month or they cancelled your credit so it was hard to get into serious trouble financially. I can recall how amazing it was when we got our first gas card making going on vacation simpler. But we paid for our very infrequent motel rooms with cash or travelers checks and wrote a check for each of our monthly bills and purchases.

The government did absolutely nothing for us for day to day needs and expenses and we didn't expect it to. Many many of us started out dirt poor, but nobody stayed poor indefinitely because we expected to do what was necessary to achieve and improve our standard of living and everybody did.

What we need is one huge national attitude adjustment instead of living on the edge and then expecting the government to fix everything for us.

Everyone, get used to being poor! In a nation of extreme wealth.

speak for yourself, the rest of us are doing quite well.

 

[Tehon]

To be clear.

I support a scenario where society decides that the capitalist system is failing to meet our needs and moves in the direction of a new social relationship that does meet our needs.

I do not support a scenario where a minority gains control and imposes its will on society.

Socialism is a wonderful system until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

Correct, if you're the one getting the money. After all, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

Money, in the form it takes now, will be abolished as well.

I don't think so. It will happen at some point, but not right now.

You work for a living, don't you? Why should someone else be permitted to profit off of your labor? It is your labor, is it not?

 

[Foxfyre]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

This stuff has been true for a long time

Americans do not save
Do not like to save

Not much to save at times.

When I think back to being a teen in the 70's, what did we have? We had a television set, a landline telephone, a stereo with an 8-track player. Most of us were one-car families and ate out about three of four times a year. Maybe went to the movies about eight or ten times a year.

What do we spend our money on today that we didn't have back then? Family cell phone plans with smart phones for every member of the family. Cable or satellite television with 400 stations. Three video game systems complete with game cartridges. Pay-per-view movie channels. Netflix. The internet. Big screen televisions. A car for every adult member in the family. Fast food restaurants a half-dozen times a week or more.

Do people realize how much money we would all have if we lived like we did in the 70's?

Amen and Amen. The problem is NOT low wages. The problem is attitude and mind set and basic values that determine what is really important.

I have lived paycheck to paycheck but we did live. The fact is most families can manage with one car, without smart phones, without cable TV that alone costs more per month than we had to live on when we first started out. You don't have to eat out and it is possible to eat quite well on very little money if you manage properly and don't require the fancier foods.

We didn't have credit cards back then but had layaway plans at Sears and J.C. Penney so whatever we took home was paid for. What few charge accounts existed were controlled by local merchants who got paid every month or they cancelled your credit so it was hard to get into serious trouble financially. I can recall how amazing it was when we got our first gas card making going on vacation simpler. But we paid for our very infrequent motel rooms with cash or travelers checks and wrote a check for each of our monthly bills and purchases.

The government did absolutely nothing for us for day to day needs and expenses and we didn't expect it to. Many many of us started out dirt poor, but nobody stayed poor indefinitely because we expected to do what was necessary to achieve and improve our standard of living and everybody did.

What we need is one huge national attitude adjustment instead of living on the edge and then expecting the government to fix everything for us.

Everyone, get used to being poor! In a nation of extreme wealth.

In a capitalist society, poverty is a choice, not a mandate.

That is true. Very few of us who took jobs at minimum wage to get a foot in the door stayed at minimum wage very long. And if the job did not offer sufficient opportunity for upward mobility, we used it as a stepping stone for a better one. People with a job, even one that isn't very good, are often more attractive to an employer than somebody who has been out of work for awhile because he refused to do menial labor or whatever.

And before government was seen as the solution for pretty much everything, nobody had to teach us how to earn a living. We had excellent role models who showed us. And we instinctively knew the rules for a successful life:

--stay away from illegal substances and activities and stay in school and educate yourself whether in high school or college.

--be willing to accept whatever Mcjobs you can get to develop a work ethic, people and other marketable skills, and references to qualify for better jobs.

--get married to a responsible person before having kids.

--understand that wages and benefits are going to be based on how valuable you can make yourself to an employer and not on some artificial government standard.

--be honorable, responsible, live within your means, pay your bills, save for a rainy day or a down payment on a home or your own business and develop a reputation that will entitle you to trust and credit when you absolutely need it.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Life is way more expensive. My parents got their house, which is 2x the size of mine for 25% of the cost. The cable bill back then was like $50. Now I pay $250. There was no cell phone bill. Now I pay $350. Car prices and gas prices have skyrocketed. College tuition and food costs are way up. Middle class gets squeezed. Wealthy don’t care and the poor get enough Govt support to continuously game the system.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Trump's short term exaggerations of the economy masks the long term effects his policies will have. The same phenomenon was seen with Reagan. It will be worse after Trump.

Exactly what is your "better" Communist plan. guy? Do you even have one? If so, lay it out. If not, STFU, pinko.

This in no way means I won't make moar fun of your silly Commie ass.

At least give me something to ridicule, or expose yourself as being a vapid nothing.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Socialism is a wonderful system until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

Correct, if you're the one getting the money. After all, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

Money, in the form it takes now, will be abolished as well.

I don't think so. It will happen at some point, but not right now.

You work for a living, don't you? Why should someone else be permitted to profit off of your labor? It is your labor, is it not?

Why? Because I labor for them.

They made the investment, they provide a place to work, they take care of all the government and taxes, they process my pay through a payroll company, they pay for the insurance, they pay for my unemployment and workman's compensation insurance, they bought the equipment I use.

Me? I just punch in and work.