How the liberal wish list could bite Democrats

Windparadox

Gold Member
May 3, 2017
4,567
903
275
Northern WI.
`
A Trump-inspired resurgence on the left has even many centrist Democrats embracing an outspokenly liberal wish list as their party hopes to capture one or both chambers of Congress in November. Just don’t count on any of it happening soon.

Even symbolic votes on the growing roster of progressive expectations could create political headaches for Democrats seeking the White House in 2020. That means "Medicare for all," debt-free college and a $15 minimum wage will remain more the subject of liberal aspirations than represent a real shift in the nation's policies.

President Donald Trump is already trying to tar progressive ideas as ballot-box poison, denouncing single-payer health care as Venezuela-style “socialism” (never mind that he endorsed it in 2000) and saying Democrats who want to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency must have a “death wish.” Democrats may have trouble uniting even on repeal of Trump’s $1.5 trillion tax cut, which received not a single Democratic vote in either chamber when it passed last year. - Source
`
`

Here are ten issues the article mentions along with my opinions;

1. Single-payer health care - I support universal health care. It's time is overdue

2. $15 minimum wage - Too much, too little, too late. Such a move will force further mechanization, cause permanent lay offs, close businesses and reward people whose work even now is marginal.

3. Abolishing ICE - Stupid idea. Just because tump is abusing it is no reason to eliminate it.

4. Repealing the tax cuts - I can definitely support this.

5. Debt-free college - Yes. Not Free college but loans without all the high interest rates.

6. Net neutrality - 100% support.

7. A $1 trillion infrastructure plan - It's needed, that's for sure. Working out funding will be difficult.

8. Defense cuts - Definitely. Use the savings for infrastructure.

9. Ending “too big to fail” - Yes....and work out plans to abolish or change the laws that allowed for the "Citizens United" ruling.

10. Climate change - I favor the eventual elimination of fossil fuels to renewable/green energy.

The problem here is that the clintonian democrats will not change a damn thing.
`
`
 
`
A Trump-inspired resurgence on the left has even many centrist Democrats embracing an outspokenly liberal wish list as their party hopes to capture one or both chambers of Congress in November. Just don’t count on any of it happening soon.

Even symbolic votes on the growing roster of progressive expectations could create political headaches for Democrats seeking the White House in 2020. That means "Medicare for all," debt-free college and a $15 minimum wage will remain more the subject of liberal aspirations than represent a real shift in the nation's policies.

President Donald Trump is already trying to tar progressive ideas as ballot-box poison, denouncing single-payer health care as Venezuela-style “socialism” (never mind that he endorsed it in 2000) and saying Democrats who want to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency must have a “death wish.” Democrats may have trouble uniting even on repeal of Trump’s $1.5 trillion tax cut, which received not a single Democratic vote in either chamber when it passed last year. - Source
`
`

Here are ten issues the article mentions along with my opinions;

1. Single-payer health care - I support universal health care. It's time is overdue

2. $15 minimum wage - Too much, too little, too late. Such a move will force further mechanization, cause permanent lay offs, close businesses and reward people whose work even now is marginal.

3. Abolishing ICE - Stupid idea. Just because tump is abusing it is no reason to eliminate it.

4. Repealing the tax cuts - I can definitely support this.

5. Debt-free college - Yes. Not Free college but loans without all the high interest rates.

6. Net neutrality - 100% support.

7. A $1 trillion infrastructure plan - It's needed, that's for sure. Working out funding will be difficult.

8. Defense cuts - Definitely. Use the savings for infrastructure.

9. Ending “too big to fail” - Yes....and work out plans to abolish or change the laws that allowed for the "Citizens United" ruling.

10. Climate change - I favor the eventual elimination of fossil fuels to renewable/green energy.

The problem here is that the clintonian democrats will not change a damn thing.
`
`

Your party is dead in the water with number one, I hope you realize. The price tag, once Americans wrap their head around it, is a killer.

Once they see the horde of people trying to come into our nation from Honduras and understand we are on the hook for them too, forget about it. Single payer will never fly. It's done. Your platform is done. Even Bernie knows this.
 
`
A Trump-inspired resurgence on the left has even many centrist Democrats embracing an outspokenly liberal wish list as their party hopes to capture one or both chambers of Congress in November. Just don’t count on any of it happening soon.

Even symbolic votes on the growing roster of progressive expectations could create political headaches for Democrats seeking the White House in 2020. That means "Medicare for all," debt-free college and a $15 minimum wage will remain more the subject of liberal aspirations than represent a real shift in the nation's policies.

President Donald Trump is already trying to tar progressive ideas as ballot-box poison, denouncing single-payer health care as Venezuela-style “socialism” (never mind that he endorsed it in 2000) and saying Democrats who want to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency must have a “death wish.” Democrats may have trouble uniting even on repeal of Trump’s $1.5 trillion tax cut, which received not a single Democratic vote in either chamber when it passed last year. - Source
`
`

Here are ten issues the article mentions along with my opinions;

1. Single-payer health care - I support universal health care. It's time is overdue

2. $15 minimum wage - Too much, too little, too late. Such a move will force further mechanization, cause permanent lay offs, close businesses and reward people whose work even now is marginal.

3. Abolishing ICE - Stupid idea. Just because tump is abusing it is no reason to eliminate it.

4. Repealing the tax cuts - I can definitely support this.

5. Debt-free college - Yes. Not Free college but loans without all the high interest rates.

6. Net neutrality - 100% support.

7. A $1 trillion infrastructure plan - It's needed, that's for sure. Working out funding will be difficult.

8. Defense cuts - Definitely. Use the savings for infrastructure.

9. Ending “too big to fail” - Yes....and work out plans to abolish or change the laws that allowed for the "Citizens United" ruling.

10. Climate change - I favor the eventual elimination of fossil fuels to renewable/green energy.

The problem here is that the clintonian democrats will not change a damn thing.
`
`

Single payer health care:

Between 1.8 trillion and 2.4 trillion PER YEAR.

I repeat:

PER YEAR.

There's just no way, just no way. Dead in the water.

How expensive would a single-payer system be?
 
Your party is dead in the water with number one, I hope you realize. The price tag, once Americans wrap their head around it, is a killer.

Once they see the horde of people trying to come into our nation from Honduras and understand we are on the hook for them too, forget about it. Single payer will never fly. It's done. Your platform is done. Even Bernie knows this.

The price tag for universal healthcare would be offset by daily sales taxes on sugar foods, booze & tobacco products: the three main killers. Small copays for regular office visits & elimination of legions of billing staff whose only function now is to wrestle the constant claims-adjusting hordes of insurance racket.

People with the burden of the equivalent of a second mortgage in insurance premiums would suddenly have that disposable income to go consume. Thus spurring the sluggish economy. Employers no longer saddled with healthcare issues can hire more people; spurring the new home buyer market & real estate makes a comeback too.

Prices in healthcare can be managed more efficiently with citizen oversight. Unless you like the current system where everyone is guaranteed er treatment anyway, where 2 Tylenol are billed at $900?

Every critic of universal healthcare is usually a person who is utterly clueless or ruthlessly diabolical about the MASSIVE hidden costs to our nation of not having universal healthcare.

And to be clear, I am politically nudging to the right of center.
 
Last edited:
`
A Trump-inspired resurgence on the left has even many centrist Democrats embracing an outspokenly liberal wish list as their party hopes to capture one or both chambers of Congress in November. Just don’t count on any of it happening soon.

Even symbolic votes on the growing roster of progressive expectations could create political headaches for Democrats seeking the White House in 2020. That means "Medicare for all," debt-free college and a $15 minimum wage will remain more the subject of liberal aspirations than represent a real shift in the nation's policies.

President Donald Trump is already trying to tar progressive ideas as ballot-box poison, denouncing single-payer health care as Venezuela-style “socialism” (never mind that he endorsed it in 2000) and saying Democrats who want to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency must have a “death wish.” Democrats may have trouble uniting even on repeal of Trump’s $1.5 trillion tax cut, which received not a single Democratic vote in either chamber when it passed last year. - Source
`
`

Here are ten issues the article mentions along with my opinions;

1. Single-payer health care - I support universal health care. It's time is overdue

2. $15 minimum wage - Too much, too little, too late. Such a move will force further mechanization, cause permanent lay offs, close businesses and reward people whose work even now is marginal.

3. Abolishing ICE - Stupid idea. Just because tump is abusing it is no reason to eliminate it.

4. Repealing the tax cuts - I can definitely support this.

5. Debt-free college - Yes. Not Free college but loans without all the high interest rates.

6. Net neutrality - 100% support.

7. A $1 trillion infrastructure plan - It's needed, that's for sure. Working out funding will be difficult.

8. Defense cuts - Definitely. Use the savings for infrastructure.

9. Ending “too big to fail” - Yes....and work out plans to abolish or change the laws that allowed for the "Citizens United" ruling.

10. Climate change - I favor the eventual elimination of fossil fuels to renewable/green energy.

The problem here is that the clintonian democrats will not change a damn thing.
`
`
I'm not convinced at all that we vote based on issues at this point.

For the hardcore partisan ideologues, they're just going to obediently vote for and support the people and issues their tribes endorse.

For many others, they will vote for whom they like the best. Personally. Or dislike the least. Yeah, I think that's as deep as it goes.

I think there are many voters who wouldn't be able to tell you where their candidates and the opposition stand on many issues.
.
 
Last edited:
`
A Trump-inspired resurgence on the left has even many centrist Democrats embracing an outspokenly liberal wish list as their party hopes to capture one or both chambers of Congress in November. Just don’t count on any of it happening soon.

Even symbolic votes on the growing roster of progressive expectations could create political headaches for Democrats seeking the White House in 2020. That means "Medicare for all," debt-free college and a $15 minimum wage will remain more the subject of liberal aspirations than represent a real shift in the nation's policies.

President Donald Trump is already trying to tar progressive ideas as ballot-box poison, denouncing single-payer health care as Venezuela-style “socialism” (never mind that he endorsed it in 2000) and saying Democrats who want to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency must have a “death wish.” Democrats may have trouble uniting even on repeal of Trump’s $1.5 trillion tax cut, which received not a single Democratic vote in either chamber when it passed last year. - Source
`
`

Here are ten issues the article mentions along with my opinions;

1. Single-payer health care - I support universal health care. It's time is overdue

2. $15 minimum wage - Too much, too little, too late. Such a move will force further mechanization, cause permanent lay offs, close businesses and reward people whose work even now is marginal.

3. Abolishing ICE - Stupid idea. Just because tump is abusing it is no reason to eliminate it.

4. Repealing the tax cuts - I can definitely support this.

5. Debt-free college - Yes. Not Free college but loans without all the high interest rates.

6. Net neutrality - 100% support.

7. A $1 trillion infrastructure plan - It's needed, that's for sure. Working out funding will be difficult.

8. Defense cuts - Definitely. Use the savings for infrastructure.

9. Ending “too big to fail” - Yes....and work out plans to abolish or change the laws that allowed for the "Citizens United" ruling.

10. Climate change - I favor the eventual elimination of fossil fuels to renewable/green energy.

The problem here is that the clintonian democrats will not change a damn thing.
`
`

Oh if the Dems were in control they would get rid of Citizens United, stop the deregulations of Trump, go ahead and do universal healthcare, slowly raise the min wage to 15 an hour with yearly increases with inflation, and put the breaks on ICE, their arresting everyone and anyone, strengthen the boarder, etc.
 
Your party is dead in the water with number one, I hope you realize. The price tag, once Americans wrap their head around it, is a killer.

Once they see the horde of people trying to come into our nation from Honduras and understand we are on the hook for them too, forget about it. Single payer will never fly. It's done. Your platform is done. Even Bernie knows this.

The price tag for universal healthcare would be offset by daily sales taxes on sugar foods, booze & tobacco products: the three main killers. Small copays for regular office visits & elimination of legions of billing staff whose only function now is to wrestle the constant claims-adjusting hordes of insurance racket.

People with the burden of the equivalent of a second mortgage in insurance premiums would suddenly have that disposable income to go consume. Thus spurring the sluggish economy. Employers no longer saddled with healthcare issues can hire more people; spurring the new home buyer market & real estate makes a comeback too.

Prices in healthcare can be managed more efficiently with citizen oversight. Unless you like the current system where everyone is guaranteed er treatment anyway, where 2 Tylenol are billed at $900?

Every critic of universal healthcare is usually a person who is utterly clueless or ruthlessly diabolical about the MASSIVE hidden costs to our nation of not having universal healthcare.

And to be clear, I am politically nudging to the right of center.

You typed this utter freedom-stealing garbage but then I read the first line of your signature about "forcing people to condone or support other people's value systems OR LIFESTYLE." But hey, it's just fine if Big Daddy Govco can do it to promote health, amirite?

You Statists are just too much. It makes no nevermind that all these imagined health care savings wouldn't materialize; you totalitarians would get all the control over the population you don't want religion to have, but by golly would love The State to have.

Get lost.
 
`
A Trump-inspired resurgence on the left has even many centrist Democrats embracing an outspokenly liberal wish list as their party hopes to capture one or both chambers of Congress in November. Just don’t count on any of it happening soon.

Even symbolic votes on the growing roster of progressive expectations could create political headaches for Democrats seeking the White House in 2020. That means "Medicare for all," debt-free college and a $15 minimum wage will remain more the subject of liberal aspirations than represent a real shift in the nation's policies.

President Donald Trump is already trying to tar progressive ideas as ballot-box poison, denouncing single-payer health care as Venezuela-style “socialism” (never mind that he endorsed it in 2000) and saying Democrats who want to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency must have a “death wish.” Democrats may have trouble uniting even on repeal of Trump’s $1.5 trillion tax cut, which received not a single Democratic vote in either chamber when it passed last year. - Source
`
`

Here are ten issues the article mentions along with my opinions;

1. Single-payer health care - I support universal health care. It's time is overdue

2. $15 minimum wage - Too much, too little, too late. Such a move will force further mechanization, cause permanent lay offs, close businesses and reward people whose work even now is marginal.

3. Abolishing ICE - Stupid idea. Just because tump is abusing it is no reason to eliminate it.

4. Repealing the tax cuts - I can definitely support this.

5. Debt-free college - Yes. Not Free college but loans without all the high interest rates.

6. Net neutrality - 100% support.

7. A $1 trillion infrastructure plan - It's needed, that's for sure. Working out funding will be difficult.

8. Defense cuts - Definitely. Use the savings for infrastructure.

9. Ending “too big to fail” - Yes....and work out plans to abolish or change the laws that allowed for the "Citizens United" ruling.

10. Climate change - I favor the eventual elimination of fossil fuels to renewable/green energy.

The problem here is that the clintonian democrats will not change a damn thing.
`
`

Oh if the Dems were in control they would get rid of Citizens United, stop the deregulations of Trump, go ahead and do universal healthcare, slowly raise the min wage to 15 an hour with yearly increases with inflation, and put the breaks on ICE, their arresting everyone and anyone, strengthen the boarder, etc.

The sound of Jackboots Marching just does it for you, doesn't it?
 
Your party is dead in the water with number one, I hope you realize. The price tag, once Americans wrap their head around it, is a killer. Once they see the horde of people trying to come into our nation from Honduras and understand we are on the hook for them too, forget about it. Single payer will never fly. It's done. Your platform is done. Even Bernie knows this.
`
a) Too bad I'm not a democrat...or republican. I'm Independent and have no use for either "Party Before Country" cartel.

b) Immigration wasn't even on the list. ICE is an acronym for the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Immigration and immigration was NOT mentioned in the article, which you did not read.

c) Single payer? You obviously didn't read the article but thanks for your opinion.
`
 
Your party is dead in the water with number one, I hope you realize. The price tag, once Americans wrap their head around it, is a killer. Once they see the horde of people trying to come into our nation from Honduras and understand we are on the hook for them too, forget about it. Single payer will never fly. It's done. Your platform is done. Even Bernie knows this.
`
a) Too bad I'm not a democrat...or republican. I'm Independent and have no use for either "Party Before Country" cartel.

b) Immigration wasn't even on the list. ICE is an acronym for the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Immigration and immigration was NOT mentioned in the article, which you did not read.

c) Single payer? You obviously didn't read the article but thanks for your opinion.
`

The article didn't clarify anything and you said you support "universal health care". That's single payer.
 
`
A Trump-inspired resurgence on the left has even many centrist Democrats embracing an outspokenly liberal wish list as their party hopes to capture one or both chambers of Congress in November. Just don’t count on any of it happening soon.

Even symbolic votes on the growing roster of progressive expectations could create political headaches for Democrats seeking the White House in 2020. That means "Medicare for all," debt-free college and a $15 minimum wage will remain more the subject of liberal aspirations than represent a real shift in the nation's policies.

President Donald Trump is already trying to tar progressive ideas as ballot-box poison, denouncing single-payer health care as Venezuela-style “socialism” (never mind that he endorsed it in 2000) and saying Democrats who want to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency must have a “death wish.” Democrats may have trouble uniting even on repeal of Trump’s $1.5 trillion tax cut, which received not a single Democratic vote in either chamber when it passed last year. - Source
`
`

Here are ten issues the article mentions along with my opinions;

1. Single-payer health care - I support universal health care. It's time is overdue

2. $15 minimum wage - Too much, too little, too late. Such a move will force further mechanization, cause permanent lay offs, close businesses and reward people whose work even now is marginal.

3. Abolishing ICE - Stupid idea. Just because tump is abusing it is no reason to eliminate it.

4. Repealing the tax cuts - I can definitely support this.

5. Debt-free college - Yes. Not Free college but loans without all the high interest rates.

6. Net neutrality - 100% support.

7. A $1 trillion infrastructure plan - It's needed, that's for sure. Working out funding will be difficult.

8. Defense cuts - Definitely. Use the savings for infrastructure.

9. Ending “too big to fail” - Yes....and work out plans to abolish or change the laws that allowed for the "Citizens United" ruling.

10. Climate change - I favor the eventual elimination of fossil fuels to renewable/green energy.

The problem here is that the clintonian democrats will not change a damn thing.
`
`

So I'm a bit confused. You agree with most of what they support, but you think they shouldn't actually try any of it because it's politically unpopular.

If these are good ideas, make the case.
 
I'm not convinced at all that we vote based on issues at this point.
For the hardcore partisan ideologues, they're just going to obediently vote for and support the people and issues their tribes endorse.For many others, they will vote for whom they like the best. Personally. Or dislike the least. Yeah, I think that's as deep as it goes. I think there are many voters who wouldn't be able to tell you where their candidates and the opposition stand on many issues.
`
I gave up on the democrats in 2010, due to the heavy Clintonian influence. If the democrats want to get anywhere, they are going to have to listen to their grassroots. They are not interested in impeaching tump or Kavanaugh, these are the issues they talk about, health care being number one. However, the old guard like the Clintons and Pelosi's must go first.

I like Tulsi Gabbard and would consider voting for her - Tulsi Gabbard weighing 2020 presidential bid
`
 
I'm not convinced at all that we vote based on issues at this point.

For the hardcore partisan ideologues, they're just going to obediently vote for and support the people and issues their tribes endorse.

Stormy Mac, still upset that White Male Privilege and Islamophobia aren't considered liberal values.

Okay, let's take this apart.

For many others, they will vote for whom they like the best. Personally. Or dislike the least. Yeah, I think that's as deep as it goes.

Um, yeah, we are voting for PEOPLE, not issues or parties at the end of the day. The problem in 2016 is both parties found the most awful unethical person they could run, and we got exactly the kind of bad result you would expect.

I think there are many voters who wouldn't be able to tell you where their candidates and the opposition stand on many issues.

Probably not. But you see, that's why we vote for people, instead of just having direct democracy by referendum. We build a status of trust between them and us.

Because usually between an election and the term, things change.

Nobody knew we'd be fighting a global war on Terror in 2002 when they voted for Bush and Gore in 2000.

Nobody realized the recession was going to be as bad as it got in 2009 when they voted for Obama in 2008.

So we are voting not necessarily on "issues", but how we think the person will handle the problems that we know will come up.

This really isn't complicated.
 
I gave up on the democrats in 2010, due to the heavy Clintonian influence. If the democrats want to get anywhere, they are going to have to listen to their grassroots. They are not interested in impeaching tump or Kavanaugh, these are the issues they talk about, health care being number one. However, the old guard like the Clintons and Pelosi's must go first.

The Clintonian Old Guard is the only thing keeping Democrats competitive in White Working class neighborhoods.

Turn the party over to the Commie Bernie faction, and you'll be looking at Trump until 2024.
 
So I'm a bit confused. You agree with most of what they support, but you think they shouldn't actually try any of it because it's politically unpopular. If these are good ideas, make the case.
`
I'm an Independent. I gave my opinions on the issues listed in the news article, which interested me. Opinions are not intended to "make a case", which is why I stated "my opinions." You can agree, disagree or give your own opinions.
 
I'm not convinced at all that we vote based on issues at this point.
For the hardcore partisan ideologues, they're just going to obediently vote for and support the people and issues their tribes endorse.For many others, they will vote for whom they like the best. Personally. Or dislike the least. Yeah, I think that's as deep as it goes. I think there are many voters who wouldn't be able to tell you where their candidates and the opposition stand on many issues.
`
I gave up on the democrats in 2010, due to the heavy Clintonian influence. If the democrats want to get anywhere, they are going to have to listen to their grassroots. They are not interested in impeaching tump or Kavanaugh, these are the issues they talk about, health care being number one. However, the old guard like the Clintons and Pelosi's must go first.

I like Tulsi Gabbard and would consider voting for her - Tulsi Gabbard weighing 2020 presidential bid
`
Yeah, I saw that, good freakin' news that she's even thinking about it.

I won't vote Democrat for national elections until they're no longer under the control of the psychos. Third party for now.
.
 
The price tag for universal healthcare would be offset by daily sales taxes on sugar foods, booze & tobacco products: the three main killers. Small copays for regular office visits & elimination of legions of billing staff whose only function now is to wrestle the constant claims-adjusting hordes of insurance racket.

Wow, I can see why you mostly talk about your homophobia.. you sound even stupider when you talk about this kind of stuff.

We spend 17% of a 20 Trillion dollar economy on Health Care. That's about 3.4 TRILLION a year. We aren't going to get there by taxing candy bars. Now, the good news is, if we go to single payer, we'd probably reduce spending by getting rid of all the redundancy of Nine-figure Insurance CEO salaries, stock payouts and those three people in every doctor's office who file insurance claims. But the government taking over this function means that what people are currently paying for insurance they'll now have to pay in taxes. That will be a big culture shock.

People with the burden of the equivalent of a second mortgage in insurance premiums would suddenly have that disposable income to go consume. Thus spurring the sluggish economy. Employers no longer saddled with healthcare issues can hire more people; spurring the new home buyer market & real estate makes a comeback too.

Except most people don't see that. Most people get their insurance through their employers, and the employers eat that expense. For employers, they won't hire more people if they don't need them. Employees are an expense. The good news is that with more people retiring, the labor pool is getting shallower. That's the only thing keeping unemployment at current levels.

Prices in healthcare can be managed more efficiently with citizen oversight. Unless you like the current system where everyone is guaranteed er treatment anyway, where 2 Tylenol are billed at $900?

Every critic of universal healthcare is usually a person who is utterly clueless or ruthlessly diabolical about the MASSIVE hidden costs to our nation of not having universal healthcare.

And to be clear, I am politically nudging to the right of center.

Oh, I agree, that we do have a lot of hidden costs. The real problem is, most Americans aren't sold on single payer, and a single payer system will inevitably mean that at some point, they'll stop paying for people who are going to die anyway. That's kind of the only real way that you'll cut costs, but man, heaven help the first politician who advocates that.
 
Yeah, I saw that, good freakin' news that she's even thinking about it.I won't vote Democrat for national elections until they're no longer under the control of the psychos. Third party for now.
`
I guess now a days, they call Independent/third party as "swing voters", not sure though. Time to get more youth involved in politics.
`
 

Forum List

Back
Top