If this is true, we are in trouble...

[Tehon]

Trump's short term exaggerations of the economy masks the long term effects his policies will have. The same phenomenon was seen with Reagan. It will be worse after Trump.

Exactly what is your "better" Communist plan. guy? Do you even have one? If so, lay it out. If not, STFU, pinko.

In a nutshell, the plan is to abolish the ability of some to acquire vast amounts of wealth off of the labor of others.

 

[Thinker101]

Tehon has admitted that he supports a scenario where communists take over and those who hold counter revolutionary thoughts will be "dealt with".

He dodged when I asked him if he would support his communist government going though the archives of this site and others like it, and arresting those with the wrong views.

He supports an outcome that he knows will likely result in mine and Morrison's death.


And you are attacking US for saying we would fight that?

To be clear.

I support a scenario where society decides that the capitalist system is failing to meet our needs and moves in the direction of a new social relationship that does meet our needs.

I do not support a scenario where a minority gains control and imposes its will on society.

Socialism is a wonderful system until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

Correct, if you're the one getting the money. After all, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

Money, in the form it takes now, will be abolished as well.

When would that be, when liberals piss it all away?

 

[Uncensored2008]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Post your source.

Is it ThinkProgress?

National Average Wage Index

The average wage is actually over $50,000. Only .08% (8 out of 10,000) American workers earn minimum wage.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Unlimited immigration from the third world will not help any of these issues.

 

[Tehon]

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

Correct, if you're the one getting the money. After all, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

Money, in the form it takes now, will be abolished as well.

I don't think so. It will happen at some point, but not right now.

You work for a living, don't you? Why should someone else be permitted to profit off of your labor? It is your labor, is it not?

Why? Because I labor for them.

They made the investment, they provide a place to work, they take care of all the government and taxes, they process my pay through a payroll company, they pay for the insurance, they pay for my unemployment and workman's compensation insurance, they bought the equipment I use.

Me? I just punch in and work.

As long as you are okay with it.

There must be a disconnect in the minds of people who resent government profiting off one's labor and acquiesce to a private individual doing the same thing.

 

[xband]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

I only know one person that doesn't have one grand for an emergency and it is not me. Every young person I know has a cell phone but not me. I use one American Express credit card because it is tax free cash back and pay it off every month before the due date. I drive a new pickup truck that I paid cash for. I never inherited one penny and never took a government handout of any kind. I never went to college and am a Self-Made Man.

 

[whitehall]

It's kind of strange that nobody on the left seemed worried when Barry Hussein used to brag about the increase of food stamp recipients in a stagnant economy. For some reason they seem worried about the middle class in a roaring Trump economy where the GDP is over 4% and the DOW is around 26,000. The crazy angry left seems to worry about the "poor" only when unemployment is the lowest that it's been in half a century. Proof that reality is upside down in the liberal mind.

 

[gipper]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

This stuff has been true for a long time

Americans do not save
Do not like to save

Not much to save at times.

When I think back to being a teen in the 70's, what did we have? We had a television set, a landline telephone, a stereo with an 8-track player. Most of us were one-car families and ate out about three of four times a year. Maybe went to the movies about eight or ten times a year.

What do we spend our money on today that we didn't have back then? Family cell phone plans with smart phones for every member of the family. Cable or satellite television with 400 stations. Three video game systems complete with game cartridges. Pay-per-view movie channels. Netflix. The internet. Big screen televisions. A car for every adult member in the family. Fast food restaurants a half-dozen times a week or more.

Do people realize how much money we would all have if we lived like we did in the 70's?

Amen and Amen. The problem is NOT low wages. The problem is attitude and mind set and basic values that determine what is really important.

I have lived paycheck to paycheck but we did live. The fact is most families can manage with one car, without smart phones, without cable TV that alone costs more per month than we had to live on when we first started out. You don't have to eat out and it is possible to eat quite well on very little money if you manage properly and don't require the fancier foods.

We didn't have credit cards back then but had layaway plans at Sears and J.C. Penney so whatever we took home was paid for. What few charge accounts existed were controlled by local merchants who got paid every month or they cancelled your credit so it was hard to get into serious trouble financially. I can recall how amazing it was when we got our first gas card making going on vacation simpler. But we paid for our very infrequent motel rooms with cash or travelers checks and wrote a check for each of our monthly bills and purchases.

The government did absolutely nothing for us for day to day needs and expenses and we didn't expect it to. Many many of us started out dirt poor, but nobody stayed poor indefinitely because we expected to do what was necessary to achieve and improve our standard of living and everybody did.

What we need is one huge national attitude adjustment instead of living on the edge and then expecting the government to fix everything for us.

That is the problem. The government does very little for the middle class and poor, but they do a shit load for the extreme wealthy.

It is a racket the Mafia can only dream of.

 

[Uncensored2008]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Trump is doing his best to fix this..... the more democrats we vote out of office the better off these people will be......

That is why November is so important....democrats thrive on poverty, racism, hate and violence......

How so? What have republicans done to fix this?
From where I'm sitting personally, one thousand dollars means very little. It's just something that happens.

Try facing the facts of what happens to hundreds of thousands of working people.

The economy is now going great, unemployment is down, job opportunites are up, and even for Black and Hispanics in America unemployment is down at historic levels.....

You don't know what you are talking about.

When America wins, democrats lose.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

1. Not sure of the specifics, but that's highly probable
2. This I'd have to agree with, though the numbers are probably higher than 63%. IIRC, there is a thread on here somewhere about that
3. This is also very possible, but I wouldn't attribute all of it to wages. As the economy has improved, people are back to overspending in many cases.
4. IDK, ok
5. Wage $$ are different according to locale. $12ph in Seattle, LA, NY, etc would keep you homeless & broke, but that same amount could get you a lot farther in more rural less expensive areas.
6. Don't forget Obama lowering income eligibility rules for FS & Medicaid, provided many mortgage programs as bail outs in response to the housing crisis, and after that one bridge collapse (Michigan???) did spark a lot of shoring up of infrastructure, but on the state level.

But in any of it....I doubt it came to 26 T.

Yes I think we're in trouble. There seems to be more bubbles created that could soon burst. One of which is that housing/mortgage/bank bubble. Seems like the banks didn't learn their lesson the first time about ensuring income minimums, down payment amounts, etc before providing loans. Commodity prices have been all over the board in that they were dropping a bit at a time for a short while, but never really any major savings and are now on the rise again and it's just beginning.

 

[xband]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Trump is doing his best to fix this..... the more democrats we vote out of office the better off these people will be......

That is why November is so important....democrats thrive on poverty, racism, hate and violence......

How so? What have republicans done to fix this?
From where I'm sitting personally, one thousand dollars means very little. It's just something that happens.

Try facing the facts of what happens to hundreds of thousands of working people.

The economy is now going great, unemployment is down, job opportunites are up, and even for Black and Hispanics in America unemployment is down at historic levels.....

You don't know what you are talking about.

When America wins, democrats lose.

Democrats turn my stomach. The Democratic Party is a Terrorist Organization and should be labeled so, etc etc.

 

[Thinker101]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Trump is doing his best to fix this..... the more democrats we vote out of office the better off these people will be......

That is why November is so important....democrats thrive on poverty, racism, hate and violence......

There's no proof trump is trying to fix things else you're talking about tax cuts for the rich and his other disgraceful policies.

No proof!? Dood, you have to get out and about more often.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Trump's short term exaggerations of the economy masks the long term effects his policies will have. The same phenomenon was seen with Reagan. It will be worse after Trump.

Exactly what is your "better" Communist plan. guy? Do you even have one? If so, lay it out. If not, STFU, pinko.

In a nutshell, the plan is to abolish the ability of some to acquire vast amounts of wealth off of the labor of others.

That's total bullshit, go fuck yourself. If they are clever enough, let them do it.

According to your Marxist bullshit, I'd be "the owner of the production methods" or whatever.

I sweated all day yesterday, faggot, and so did my helper. We are into equal-opportunity bust assedness. In fact, it was worse on me than "the labor". (this time)

Fuck you and your ridiculous Commie pipe dreams, ok? I'm from the real world.

We make things happen around here, what do you do?

How dare you denigrate my partner by marginalizing him.


You couldn't do what he does in the best days of your life, you pusillanimous piece of shit.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Correct, if you're the one getting the money. After all, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

Money, in the form it takes now, will be abolished as well.

I don't think so. It will happen at some point, but not right now.

You work for a living, don't you? Why should someone else be permitted to profit off of your labor? It is your labor, is it not?

Why? Because I labor for them.

They made the investment, they provide a place to work, they take care of all the government and taxes, they process my pay through a payroll company, they pay for the insurance, they pay for my unemployment and workman's compensation insurance, they bought the equipment I use.

Me? I just punch in and work.

As long as you are okay with it.

There must be a disconnect in the minds of people who resent government profiting off one's labor and acquiesce to a private individual doing the same thing.

When you work for somebody, you make a verbal contract. I will provide X services for you, and in exchange you pay X amount of dollars to me. It's just like getting your muffler fixed or your lawn cut. If I was not happy with our contract, I'm free to seek better ones or open up a company of my own. Then I could reap the profits of the company. But again, that's my choice. I'm not forced to work for anybody.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Trump's short term exaggerations of the economy masks the long term effects his policies will have. The same phenomenon was seen with Reagan. It will be worse after Trump.

Exactly what is your "better" Communist plan. guy? Do you even have one? If so, lay it out. If not, STFU, pinko.

In a nutshell, the plan is to abolish the ability of some to acquire vast amounts of wealth off of the labor of others.

Then what you are talking about is Fascism. You want government to have such power as to tell any company in the US how they will pay people.

Sorry, we don't do that in a free capitalist country.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

In other words, nothing has changed in the social pyramid of human civilization over the past 6000years of recorded history. ok

Conservatives want to retain the pyramid.

Liberals want to skew the pyramid into the Eiffel Tower (communism)

 

[Manonthestreet]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Post your source.

Is it ThinkProgress?

View attachment 223928

National Average Wage Index

The average wage is actually over $50,000. Only .08% (8 out of 10,000) American workers earn minimum wage.

I would ADD look and your own personal history as far as wages....they have exploded up in my industry

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In other words, nothing has changed in the social pyramid of human civilization over the past 6000years of recorded history. ok

Conservatives want to retain the pyramid.

Liberals want to skew the pyramid into the Eiffel Tower (communism)

Here is the real problem: Liberals are always advocating to turn our country into one of theirs. Free healthcare, free college, no guns in society, everybody equal.....equally poor, and only government has money.

There are already places like that around the globe, yet none of these liberals ever try to move to these utopias to try it out for a few years, and then come back and tell us how great it is.......if they let them.

But there is a place in the US where there are no guns except government, free food, free healthcare, nobody has any money. We call them prisons, and that's what liberals want to turn this country into.

 

[Foxfyre]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

This stuff has been true for a long time

Americans do not save
Do not like to save

Not much to save at times.

When I think back to being a teen in the 70's, what did we have? We had a television set, a landline telephone, a stereo with an 8-track player. Most of us were one-car families and ate out about three of four times a year. Maybe went to the movies about eight or ten times a year.

What do we spend our money on today that we didn't have back then? Family cell phone plans with smart phones for every member of the family. Cable or satellite television with 400 stations. Three video game systems complete with game cartridges. Pay-per-view movie channels. Netflix. The internet. Big screen televisions. A car for every adult member in the family. Fast food restaurants a half-dozen times a week or more.

Do people realize how much money we would all have if we lived like we did in the 70's?

Amen and Amen. The problem is NOT low wages. The problem is attitude and mind set and basic values that determine what is really important.

I have lived paycheck to paycheck but we did live. The fact is most families can manage with one car, without smart phones, without cable TV that alone costs more per month than we had to live on when we first started out. You don't have to eat out and it is possible to eat quite well on very little money if you manage properly and don't require the fancier foods.

We didn't have credit cards back then but had layaway plans at Sears and J.C. Penney so whatever we took home was paid for. What few charge accounts existed were controlled by local merchants who got paid every month or they cancelled your credit so it was hard to get into serious trouble financially. I can recall how amazing it was when we got our first gas card making going on vacation simpler. But we paid for our very infrequent motel rooms with cash or travelers checks and wrote a check for each of our monthly bills and purchases.

The government did absolutely nothing for us for day to day needs and expenses and we didn't expect it to. Many many of us started out dirt poor, but nobody stayed poor indefinitely because we expected to do what was necessary to achieve and improve our standard of living and everybody did.

What we need is one huge national attitude adjustment instead of living on the edge and then expecting the government to fix everything for us.

That is the problem. The government does very little for the middle class and poor, but they do a shit load for the extreme wealthy.

It is a racket the Mafia can only dream of.

The government has spent trillions of dollars on the poor and the government would not have those trillions of dollars to spend on the poor without those 'extremely wealthy.' However, the more trillions we spend on the poor, the more 'poor' we seem to have with us, and we have many more people who are now entrenched in poverty and training subsequent generations to live in poverty.

Benjamin Franklin once wisely observed after extensive travel to other lands:
“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”

The Founders to a man believed the central government should not be in the business of any form of charity but rather should facilitate individual freedom and ability to take initiative as the best policy to encourage prosperity for all. The Constitution gives the government absolutely no authority to take money from those who earn it and give it to those who do not. That is how it was intended so that excess authority--dictatorship--would not be given to the central government.

 

[xband]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Post your source.

Is it ThinkProgress?

View attachment 223928

National Average Wage Index

The average wage is actually over $50,000. Only .08% (8 out of 10,000) American workers earn minimum wage.

I would ADD look and your own personal history as far as wages....they have exploded up in my industry

What is your Industry if that is not an indiscrete question to ask?