If gun control isn't the answer, what is?

[deltex1]

What is the answer?

Something, or nothing? If something, what?

Gun control will only control the good guys guns...why would you want to do that?

 

[Katzndogz]

We're becoming a degenerate society with a dash of sadism thrown in. There is no one answer. This is the world liberals built. A 20something shoots up a school because he thinks his mother doesn't love him enough. A man shoves another man into the path of an oncoming train because he felt that he was unfairly bumped into. Another person goes into a rage because his or her hamburger wasn't cooked right. Jamie Foxx jokes about killing all the white people and gets applause and cheers. Two baseball fans don't like it that some random guy likes the opposing team and beat him to death. A mother is unfairly burdened by her daughter and strangles her to death.

Where did any of this come from? It comes from a culture that says you have a civil right to be happy, you have a right to never be disappointed. If you are unhappy, if there is some disappointment out there, it is someone else's fault and you deserve the satisfaction of punishing someone. Put that concept into a society where there is an entitlement to deaden one's mind with drugs and this is what you get. It isn't the fault of the guns. It's the fault of the mind behind the gun.

 

[deltex1]

We're becoming a degenerate society with a dash of sadism thrown in. There is no one answer. This is the world liberals built. A 20something shoots up a school because he thinks his mother doesn't love him enough. A man shoves another man into the path of an oncoming train because he felt that he was unfairly bumped into. Another person goes into a rage because his or her hamburger wasn't cooked right. Jamie Foxx jokes about killing all the white people and gets applause and cheers. Two baseball fans don't like it that some random guy likes the opposing team and beat him to death. A mother is unfairly burdened by her daughter and strangles her to death.

Where did any of this come from? It comes from a culture that says you have a civil right to be happy, you have a right to never be disappointed. If you are unhappy, if there is some disappointment out there, it is someone else's fault and you deserve the satisfaction of punishing someone. Put that concept into a society where there is an entitlement to deaden one's mind with drugs and this is what you get. It isn't the fault of the guns. It's the fault of the mind behind the gun.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I can agree with that but the truth be known all humanity has been "degenerate" since Adam and Eve. It has long been my theory that when God created the universe 5 billion years ago He had in mind that the whole thing would end when His "humans" perfected them selves and became Him. Estimated completion date??? Another 5 billion years.

 

[AmericanFirst]

that is an NRA lie

You are a lie.

 

[blastoff]

It's never going to go away. It might happen more frequently or less frequently or vacillate back and forth between the two in the years ahead. But as long as we live in a free and open society there will always be vulnerabilities. If we added armed guards to the halls of every school in America, the crackpots would just look for softer targets. We can't guard every movie theater, shopping mall, restaurant, museum, library, office building, sporting and entertainment venues, or God knows what else.

Where there's a will there's a way and it makes no difference if a person is sane or nuts. They'll find a way IMO.

 

[Oldguy]

What is the answer?

Something, or nothing? If something, what?

More opportunities, higher employment and a reason for being a moral citizen, especially for the young men and women getting their start in adult life.

What kind of "reason" would you be looking for? And, just what is a "moral citizen?" What all does that entail and how would you accomplish it?

As for those first two suggestions, I just don't buy the idea that a lack of opportunity or jobs causes someone to commit murder. And, I never have bought it.

 

[Oldguy]

We're becoming a degenerate society with a dash of sadism thrown in. There is no one answer. This is the world liberals built. A 20something shoots up a school because he thinks his mother doesn't love him enough. A man shoves another man into the path of an oncoming train because he felt that he was unfairly bumped into. Another person goes into a rage because his or her hamburger wasn't cooked right. Jamie Foxx jokes about killing all the white people and gets applause and cheers. Two baseball fans don't like it that some random guy likes the opposing team and beat him to death. A mother is unfairly burdened by her daughter and strangles her to death.

Where did any of this come from? It comes from a culture that says you have a civil right to be happy, you have a right to never be disappointed. If you are unhappy, if there is some disappointment out there, it is someone else's fault and you deserve the satisfaction of punishing someone. Put that concept into a society where there is an entitlement to deaden one's mind with drugs and this is what you get. It isn't the fault of the guns. It's the fault of the mind behind the gun.

So, the solution to all that is elect "conservative" Republican's into office and let them fulfill the Ryan plan and legislate obedience to the Fundie's version of the Bible? Wouldn't that be the counterpoint to what you're saying?

 

[Oldguy]

It has long been my theory that when God created the universe 5 billion years ago He had in mind that the whole thing would end when His "humans" perfected them selves and became Him. Estimated completion date??? Another 5 billion years.

Uh....that's not in the Bible.

 

[MikeK]

Wanna bet? We even wore our toy guns to school. TO SCHOOL! Can you even imagine?



Yeah, well...the moon "might" kick out of orbit and land in your living room too, but I don't think that would be a good reason for passing new laws, do you?

I didn't suggest passing any laws. My interest lies in the possibility that repetitive imagery, which is a subliminal indoctrination (brainwash) technique, might have something to do with the rise in these increasingly bizarre massacres with guns.

Right now the political theater is focused on banning high capacity gun magazines because the performers know they can get that law passed. They are pursuing that nonsensical idea because it's all they can do and they must do something. But it's quite possible the source of the problem is not guns but a circumstance they haven't even considered -- that of violent gun imagery occurring as a kind of homicidal pornography.

While it has no effect on the rational mind who knows what demons it might awaken in the psychopath.

Perhaps, but the only logical solution to that is some form of censorship. Is that a road you really want to start down? Never forget that process of incrementalism. What may start out benign and for a good cause, grows into something more sinister over time.

Very true. And I'll venture to say I am as opposed to censorship as anyone. But what I see happening in its place is the gradual whittling of the Second Amendment, which ensures the right to keep and bear arms -- but doesn't say what kind of arms.

Right now Feinstein & Company probably will reinstate the "assault weapon" ban and add a ban on high-capacity magazines. Then when some psycho acts out with a semi-auto shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot, semi-autos will go next, as will 00 buckshot, the ultimate goal being the right to keep nothing more lethal in the way of arms than a single-shot, bolt-action .22 rifle and bear it only in a locked box to and from a federally supervised shooting range.

So, take your pick.

 

[Dreamy]

The only question is how do we keep guns out of the hands of people who want to use them to kill innocent people.

I know we have many gun laws in place so where did we fail this time? Or did we fail? Do very bad things just sometimes happen in a free society?

 

[RandallFlagg]

We're becoming a degenerate society with a dash of sadism thrown in. There is no one answer. This is the world liberals built. A 20something shoots up a school because he thinks his mother doesn't love him enough. A man shoves another man into the path of an oncoming train because he felt that he was unfairly bumped into. Another person goes into a rage because his or her hamburger wasn't cooked right. Jamie Foxx jokes about killing all the white people and gets applause and cheers. Two baseball fans don't like it that some random guy likes the opposing team and beat him to death. A mother is unfairly burdened by her daughter and strangles her to death.

Where did any of this come from? It comes from a culture that says you have a civil right to be happy, you have a right to never be disappointed. If you are unhappy, if there is some disappointment out there, it is someone else's fault and you deserve the satisfaction of punishing someone. Put that concept into a society where there is an entitlement to deaden one's mind with drugs and this is what you get. It isn't the fault of the guns. It's the fault of the mind behind the gun.

So, the solution to all that is elect "conservative" Republican's into office and let them fulfill the Ryan plan and legislate obedience to the Fundie's version of the Bible? Wouldn't that be the counterpoint to what you're saying?

Who knows what the "solution" is? Most older, white Americans would love to go back to a time without the Internet, cable television, Politicians who actually served the public interest, a belief in Christian values (the core belief that you "treat others as you would be treated") and "generally" with a HOPE that the future would be better.

As a black child, I was called "******" by my classmates, watched riots in Watts and Detroit, and heard horrific stories of black Americans being hung on trees in the South. I ALSO saw Martin Luther King march in the streets for a "HOPE" that the future would be better.

So, that having been said - what have we gotten for our efforts? A country on the verge of collapse. More hate than I EVER experienced as a child and a democrat party that STILL maintains its power by enslaving its base. The first "Black" president ( I still don't know where that idea comes from - He is bi-racial, NOT black), and race-relations worse now, than at any time I can remember. The people are being brainwashed to HATE those who succeed and to strive for whatever crumbs you can scrape from the politicians table. Politicians that BARELY have enough sense to put the proper shoe on the right foot (I give you Maxine Waters), presidents who besmirch the office with extra-marital affairs (I give you Bill Clinton) and a voting block that applauds his efforts with "Monica". Homosexuality is being integrated into the military, Women are getting closer and closer to seeing their buddies guts blown out on the battlefield, Women are taking over the, once nuclear, family. Network Television shows are now celebrating the "New" American family - Homosexuals. Ultra violent video games are the HOT Christmas item, Our public schools are no longer allowed to mention things like "Patriotism" or "Jesus" or "Christmas" without fear of law-suits by a group of Attorneys who lurk in the shadows, just waiting for a chance to destroy.

I could go on for an hour. The point here? I would gladly go back to being called "******" by folks who weren't afraid to say it my face, rather than say it behind my back. Democrats, THIS is the world that your "PARTY" has given us. Unfortunately, YOU are the only ones celebrating it.

 

[wavingrl]

Who knows what the "solution" is? Most older, white Americans would love to go back to a time without the Internet, cable television, Politicians who actually served the public interest, a belief in Christian values (the core belief that you "treat others as you would be treated") and "generally" with a HOPE that the future would be better.

As a black child, I was called "******" by my classmates, watched riots in Watts and Detroit, and heard horrific stories of black Americans being hung on trees in the South. I ALSO saw Martin Luther King march in the streets for a "HOPE" that the future would be better.

So, that having been said - what have we gotten for our efforts? A country on the verge of collapse. More hate than I EVER experienced as a child and a democrat party that STILL maintains its power by enslaving its base. The first "Black" president ( I still don't know where that idea comes from - He is bi-racial, NOT black), and race-relations worse now, than at any time I can remember. The people are being brainwashed to HATE those who succeed and to strive for whatever crumbs you can scrape from the politicians table. Politicians that BARELY have enough sense to put the proper shoe on the right foot (I give you Maxine Waters), presidents who besmirch the office with extra-marital affairs (I give you Bill Clinton) and a voting block that applauds his efforts with "Monica". Homosexuality is being integrated into the military, Women are getting closer and closer to seeing their buddies guts blown out on the battlefield, Women are taking over the, once nuclear, family. Network Television shows are now celebrating the "New" American family - Homosexuals. Ultra violent video games are the HOT Christmas item, Our public schools are no longer allowed to mention things like "Patriotism" or "Jesus" or "Christmas" without fear of law-suits by a group of Attorneys who lurk in the shadows, just waiting for a chance to destroy.

I could go on for an hour. The point here? I would gladly go back to being called "******" by folks who weren't afraid to say it my face, rather than say it behind my back. Democrats, THIS is the world that your "PARTY" has given us. Unfortunately, YOU are the only ones celebrating it.

I am an older, white American. I don't know what the answer is either. I don't necessarily want to travel back in time but wish there was more 'common ground'. Clearly good intentions seemed to have paved the way to hell??
I agree with your analysis of the culture in general.

It was encouraging to have a glimpse into life in Newtown where people seem to have chosen to live more sanely and humanely. Proving that this is possible for others, also--I would hope.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Who knows what the "solution" is? Most older, white Americans would love to go back to a time without the Internet, cable television, Politicians who actually served the public interest, a belief in Christian values (the core belief that you "treat others as you would be treated") and "generally" with a HOPE that the future would be better.

As a black child, I was called "******" by my classmates, watched riots in Watts and Detroit, and heard horrific stories of black Americans being hung on trees in the South. I ALSO saw Martin Luther King march in the streets for a "HOPE" that the future would be better.

So, that having been said - what have we gotten for our efforts? A country on the verge of collapse. More hate than I EVER experienced as a child and a democrat party that STILL maintains its power by enslaving its base. The first "Black" president ( I still don't know where that idea comes from - He is bi-racial, NOT black), and race-relations worse now, than at any time I can remember. The people are being brainwashed to HATE those who succeed and to strive for whatever crumbs you can scrape from the politicians table. Politicians that BARELY have enough sense to put the proper shoe on the right foot (I give you Maxine Waters), presidents who besmirch the office with extra-marital affairs (I give you Bill Clinton) and a voting block that applauds his efforts with "Monica". Homosexuality is being integrated into the military, Women are getting closer and closer to seeing their buddies guts blown out on the battlefield, Women are taking over the, once nuclear, family. Network Television shows are now celebrating the "New" American family - Homosexuals. Ultra violent video games are the HOT Christmas item, Our public schools are no longer allowed to mention things like "Patriotism" or "Jesus" or "Christmas" without fear of law-suits by a group of Attorneys who lurk in the shadows, just waiting for a chance to destroy.

I could go on for an hour. The point here? I would gladly go back to being called "******" by folks who weren't afraid to say it my face, rather than say it behind my back. Democrats, THIS is the world that your "PARTY" has given us. Unfortunately, YOU are the only ones celebrating it.

I am an older, white American. I don't know what the answer is either. I don't necessarily want to travel back in time but wish there was more 'common ground'. Clearly good intentions seemed to have paved the way to hell??
I agree with your analysis of the culture in general.

It was encouraging to have a glimpse into life in Newtown where people seem to have chosen to live more sanely and humanely. Proving that this is possible for others, also--I would hope.

Obviously (and regrettably), we can't "travel back in time" (as much as many of would like) and as we both know, times back then weren't "ideal". However, there WAS, in my opinion, one thing back then that we all had, regardless of skin color, regardless of gender, regardless of economic standing, regardless of party, we had HOPE. we all maintained the HOPE for a better future for us all.

I do not know, but I believe, that when taken in toto, that hope is quickly becoming nothing more thn a slick buzzword in a political campaign.

As a famous politician once stated, "America deserves the government it gets".

Same thing applies to morals, I guess. Really, really sad. I have often thought of what our Fathers would think if they could come back to life and see the mess we have made of this country.......mine would kick the living hell out of me....

 

[mudwhistle]

Joe Biden has been tasked to come up with answers.

So a clown will be giving the Obama Administration's ideas to Congress.


Anyone see a problem here?

 

[wavingrl]

.

Obviously (and regrettably), we can't "travel back in time" (as much as many of would like) and as we both know, times back then weren't "ideal". However, there WAS, in my opinion, one thing back then that we all had, regardless of skin color, regardless of gender, regardless of economic standing, regardless of party, we had HOPE. we all maintained the HOPE for a better future for us all.

I do not know, but I believe, that when taken in toto, that hope is quickly becoming nothing more thn a slick buzzword in a political campaign.

As a famous politician once stated, "America deserves the government it gets".

Same thing applies to morals, I guess. Really, really sad. I have often thought of what our Fathers would think if they could come back to life and see the mess we have made of this country.......mine would kick the living hell out of me....

I completely agree and hats off to you to for synthesizing my thoughts better than I could ever hope to do.

I know I am treading the quicksand of rationalization or making excuses--but 'freedom' is very complex. I already know from previous discussions that I fall into the group that would compromise and concede and contribute to the complications, etc.

Decency---I support that. Having made a number of posts on morality/the lack of --I'll refrain from further comments.

I wonder--has it always been this way--has society always seemed to be on the verge of collapse? My parents lived through the Great Depression and 2 World Wars---dark times. People were concerned that space exploration might upset 'things' and bring about the end of the world. We survived that--I hope we can continue to persevere.

 

[Katzndogz]

We're becoming a degenerate society with a dash of sadism thrown in. There is no one answer. This is the world liberals built. A 20something shoots up a school because he thinks his mother doesn't love him enough. A man shoves another man into the path of an oncoming train because he felt that he was unfairly bumped into. Another person goes into a rage because his or her hamburger wasn't cooked right. Jamie Foxx jokes about killing all the white people and gets applause and cheers. Two baseball fans don't like it that some random guy likes the opposing team and beat him to death. A mother is unfairly burdened by her daughter and strangles her to death.

Where did any of this come from? It comes from a culture that says you have a civil right to be happy, you have a right to never be disappointed. If you are unhappy, if there is some disappointment out there, it is someone else's fault and you deserve the satisfaction of punishing someone. Put that concept into a society where there is an entitlement to deaden one's mind with drugs and this is what you get. It isn't the fault of the guns. It's the fault of the mind behind the gun.

So, the solution to all that is elect "conservative" Republican's into office and let them fulfill the Ryan plan and legislate obedience to the Fundie's version of the Bible? Wouldn't that be the counterpoint to what you're saying?

Thank you for proving that my point was well made. The way to really prove that you aren't obedient to the Bible is to push someone into the path of an oncoming train and beat an 85 year old woman to death. That will surely teach the fundies a lesson. There is no solution to a nation gripped by a sadistic culture. The disease is terminal. You just said so. Every attempt to even challenge the sadist is an unacceptable imposition of religion.

The shock still waiting for you is that people really do get the government they deserve and a sadistic people will get a sadistic government far beyond expectations.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Obviously (and regrettably), we can't "travel back in time" (as much as many of would like) and as we both know, times back then weren't "ideal". However, there WAS, in my opinion, one thing back then that we all had, regardless of skin color, regardless of gender, regardless of economic standing, regardless of party, we had HOPE. we all maintained the HOPE for a better future for us all.

I do not know, but I believe, that when taken in toto, that hope is quickly becoming nothing more thn a slick buzzword in a political campaign.

As a famous politician once stated, "America deserves the government it gets".

Same thing applies to morals, I guess. Really, really sad. I have often thought of what our Fathers would think if they could come back to life and see the mess we have made of this country.......mine would kick the living hell out of me....

I wonder--has it always been this way--has society always seemed to be on the verge of collapse? My parents lived through the Great Depression and 2 World Wars---dark times. People were concerned that space exploration might upset 'things' and bring about the end of the world. We survived that--I hope we can continue to persevere.

EXCELLENT QUESTION!! My parents, as well. I don't know, but I have asked myself this very question a hundred times. I recall stories from my Father about the "Great Depression" - because his family were sharecroppers in Kentucky, they were able to live through the tough times hunting and growing their own food. There were extremely tough times, but there was always HOPE that cooler heads would prevail and that, quite frankly, NOTHING could get the USA down. That we would ALWAYS prevail.

My Mother was brought up in a family that, my Grandfather was a Carpenter and my GrandMother worked in a laundry in the Sealbach Hotel in Louisville, Ky. They were somehow able to save enough to send my Mother to Kentucky State University (a predominantly all-black school) where she became a chemist.

My Father joined the Army and fought in World War II. He transferred to the Army Air Corps and eventually earned a Masters in Aeronautics. He went on to become a Colonel in the Air Force and served as one of the first Staff Officers in the Air Force.

So, what, in my opinion, did these things have in common? The only viable answer that I can come up with is this. NOTHING was "handed" to those folks. They had to fight poverty, ignorance, racism, and bigotry. But NEVER ONCE did the government step in to "help out". Never once. Quite frankly, my Father would have spit in the eye of any agency that had attempted to help.

One of my Dad's favorite sayings was "Eye the left hand of the man who extends his right hand in help". A little harsh, to be sure, but is it not true? Those folks lived through what must have been dark days. The survived, like most every other American by self-reliance on family, friends and God.

What are we being told to rely on today? Surely not ourselves. Nope. Now, as dark times approach, we are being told to spur our family, our friends and our God and rely on government to "care for us"; that the "helping hand" of the government will "provide" in our time of need. Thank God my parents aren't alive any longer to see this sad state of affairs.

 

[Koios]

If gun control isn't the answer, what is?

Regulate bullets; only fleece slugs permitted. Way less lethal, and the tickling should breifly subdue the aggressor.

 

[Gadawg73]

We're becoming a degenerate society with a dash of sadism thrown in. There is no one answer. This is the world liberals built. A 20something shoots up a school because he thinks his mother doesn't love him enough. A man shoves another man into the path of an oncoming train because he felt that he was unfairly bumped into. Another person goes into a rage because his or her hamburger wasn't cooked right. Jamie Foxx jokes about killing all the white people and gets applause and cheers. Two baseball fans don't like it that some random guy likes the opposing team and beat him to death. A mother is unfairly burdened by her daughter and strangles her to death.

Where did any of this come from? It comes from a culture that says you have a civil right to be happy, you have a right to never be disappointed. If you are unhappy, if there is some disappointment out there, it is someone else's fault and you deserve the satisfaction of punishing someone. Put that concept into a society where there is an entitlement to deaden one's mind with drugs and this is what you get. It isn't the fault of the guns. It's the fault of the mind behind the gun.

So, the solution to all that is elect "conservative" Republican's into office and let them fulfill the Ryan plan and legislate obedience to the Fundie's version of the Bible? Wouldn't that be the counterpoint to what you're saying?

Who knows what the "solution" is? Most older, white Americans would love to go back to a time without the Internet, cable television, Politicians who actually served the public interest, a belief in Christian values (the core belief that you "treat others as you would be treated") and "generally" with a HOPE that the future would be better.

As a black child, I was called "******" by my classmates, watched riots in Watts and Detroit, and heard horrific stories of black Americans being hung on trees in the South. I ALSO saw Martin Luther King march in the streets for a "HOPE" that the future would be better.

So, that having been said - what have we gotten for our efforts? A country on the verge of collapse. More hate than I EVER experienced as a child and a democrat party that STILL maintains its power by enslaving its base. The first "Black" president ( I still don't know where that idea comes from - He is bi-racial, NOT black), and race-relations worse now, than at any time I can remember. The people are being brainwashed to HATE those who succeed and to strive for whatever crumbs you can scrape from the politicians table. Politicians that BARELY have enough sense to put the proper shoe on the right foot (I give you Maxine Waters), presidents who besmirch the office with extra-marital affairs (I give you Bill Clinton) and a voting block that applauds his efforts with "Monica". Homosexuality is being integrated into the military, Women are getting closer and closer to seeing their buddies guts blown out on the battlefield, Women are taking over the, once nuclear, family. Network Television shows are now celebrating the "New" American family - Homosexuals. Ultra violent video games are the HOT Christmas item, Our public schools are no longer allowed to mention things like "Patriotism" or "Jesus" or "Christmas" without fear of law-suits by a group of Attorneys who lurk in the shadows, just waiting for a chance to destroy.

I could go on for an hour. The point here? I would gladly go back to being called "******" by folks who weren't afraid to say it my face, rather than say it behind my back. Democrats, THIS is the world that your "PARTY" has given us. Unfortunately, YOU are the only ones celebrating it.

How dare give equal rights to women and homosexuals.
That is reserved only for blacks.

 

[spectrumc01]

We're becoming a degenerate society with a dash of sadism thrown in. There is no one answer. This is the world liberals built. A 20something shoots up a school because he thinks his mother doesn't love him enough. A man shoves another man into the path of an oncoming train because he felt that he was unfairly bumped into. Another person goes into a rage because his or her hamburger wasn't cooked right. Jamie Foxx jokes about killing all the white people and gets applause and cheers. Two baseball fans don't like it that some random guy likes the opposing team and beat him to death. A mother is unfairly burdened by her daughter and strangles her to death.

Where did any of this come from? It comes from a culture that says you have a civil right to be happy, you have a right to never be disappointed. If you are unhappy, if there is some disappointment out there, it is someone else's fault and you deserve the satisfaction of punishing someone. Put that concept into a society where there is an entitlement to deaden one's mind with drugs and this is what you get. It isn't the fault of the guns. It's the fault of the mind behind the gun.

This is not the world liberals built, you give them way too much credit. You have your opinions and they will probably not be changed by me or anything I have to say. If I could ask you to do something the next time you hear some wild stat. Put a pencil to it. The stats are very misleading, for example : Traffic deaths on the rise in 2012 - Chicago Tribune

-559 deaths in the first seven months.
-that is 79.8 deaths mer month
-If there are 100,000 people on the road in Illinois per month .07% of the diving population died on the road. I'm sure the 100,000 number is very conservative.
- I'd consider .07% a roaring success

So when you hear all these horror stories remember that what is being reported is nothing but rarities from among a population of over 300 million. Therefore your doom and gloom scenario is not so gloomy and quite light on the doom.