I support the wall, but it's not the solution

[initforme]

No American should EVER piuck crops. EVER

 

[Luddly Neddite]

If the company cannot find workers to fill their jobs, they should never be allowed to hire illegals and should be forced by law to double their wages.

Small family farms simply cannot do that.

You really want to force them out of business?

What about other kinds of SMALL businesses?

OTOH, look at places like Smithfield and other slaughterhouses (mostly owned by China. Now about they get stopped?

Watch the documentary "Food Inc" to see that Repubs are in cahoots with ICE and trump to let companies like that advertise in Mexico and transport workers to the US.The documetary is available on You Tube.

Its not as easy or simple as many think.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No American should EVER piuck crops. EVER

Why not?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

No American should EVER piuck crops. EVER

Oh, don't worry. Fat Americans couldn't do it anyway.

 

[Wolfstrike]

No American should EVER piuck crops. EVER

Oh, don't worry. Fat Americans couldn't do it anyway.

your theories are based in prejudice against americans

 

[initforme]

Be cause those are low wage jobs we don't want Americans doing.

 

[initforme]

Anti american sentiments.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Be cause those are low wage jobs we don't want Americans doing.

RWNJs are against the education that is needed to do skilled work. We still have millions of jobs waiting for the people to be trained to do them and yet, they voted against that.

Why?

 

[initforme]

Its how they roll.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Its how they roll.

Actually, its how they end up on welfare with Dems paying their way.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

No American should EVER piuck crops. EVER

Oh, don't worry. Fat Americans couldn't do it anyway.

your theories are based in prejudice against americans

"Theories"?

Don't be ridiculous.

I've lived it. Saw it for more than 25 years.

Facts are what I care about. Not your silly wall.

 

[LuckyDuck]

They're moving because they're leaving the dump they created , then moving onto Easy St. USA.

If every business in America can be shaken down by the IRS to pay taxes, then every business can be threatened about hiring people without a Green Card. You're found hiring illegals, you go to jail.

...then we slowly reduce the people who can obtain a Green Card to zero.

All the millions of people can move back.

Instead of coming here, they need to fix the dump where they live.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I support the wall, but it's not the solution

This is perhaps the most interesting thing you wrote. That statement, as an intellectual dichotomy, deserves to be discussed. It's something worth saying and seeing that someone thinks it. Indeed, it's one of the more discursively legitimate thoughts I've seen expressed on USMB, if I'm honest. Can you expound on how you come to support the wall and yet think it is not the solution?

• What about the wall merits your support?
• The wall ils not the solution to what?

If every business in America can be shaken down by the IRS to pay taxes, then every business can be threatened about hiring people without a Green Card. You're found hiring illegals, you go to jail.

That paradigm already exists.

• Legal Pitfalls of Hiring Undocumented Immigrants
  
• Penalties for Employers Hiring Illegal Immigrants

A problem with the existing model is that it tasks the wrong people with enforcing the law. It stipulates that a business -- the entity that's seeking workers, in some cases desperately so -- reject a qualified candidate for the job the company needs to have done. Of course, a company prefers to pay the lowest wage possible, but at the end of the day, if qualified legal workers don't apply for the job, the work and the contribution it makes to the bottom line still needs to be performed/delivered.

Another dilemma is that it simply is not in the state's interest to incarcerate a business owner who's merely tying to make a profit. That's especially so if jailing the entrepreneur may cause their company to fold. That's not good for tax revenues.

...then we slowly reduce the people who can obtain a Green Card to zero. All the millions of people can move back.

The jobs illegal immigrants may take from Americans are jobs that, for the most part, Americans don't apply to obtain. The low wage jobs illegals perform existed prior to the illegals. Employers would not, to whatever extent they do, hire illegal workers had Americans not refused to take those jobs.

• Immigrants Aren't Stealing American Jobs -- More evidence surfaces that low-skilled native workers pursue different jobs than their immigrant counterparts.
  
• Is Any Job Better Than No Job? -- Employers shouldn't be surprised that Americans won't take their crummy, low-wage jobs.
  
• The Economic and Fiscal Consequences of Immigration (2016)
  • We found little to no negative effects on overall wages and employment of native-born workers in the longer term.
    
  • High-skilled immigrants, especially in technology and science, who have come in larger numbers in recent years, had a significant “positive impact” on Americans with skills, and also on working-class Americans. They spurred innovation, helping to create jobs.
    
  • Teenagers who did not finish high school also saw their hours of work reduced by immigrants, although not their ability to find jobs. Economists found many reasons that young people who drop out of high school struggle to find work. There is no indication immigration is the major factor.

 

[S.J.]

We can pass all the laws we want but they aren't worth anything if they're not enforced.

Then I'm sure you give President Obama credit for deporting millions, many more than any other prez.

No, of course you don't. You'd much rather lie about him and stay ignorant of the issue.

Was that before or after he sold them guns to kill American border patrol agents with?

 

[S.J.]

Yes, death penalities on businesses that break the wall. Break them up and sell them off.

Fine and jail their managers and personnel who knowingly break the law.

Fine stock holders three times the amount of earnings and prohibit them from participating in businesses that involve aliens for ten years.

Stupidity on this level is rare, indeed. LMAO

 

[eagle1462010]

I agree with the Wall. Nations should be able to control their borders. Walls are built in Southern Mexico to stop immigration from Central America but I don't see them pitching a dang fit about it.

But walls without manpower behind it will not work. And Not enforcing OUR LAWS only encourage them to come here. Saying we give you Sanctuary in direct contrast to our Laws are the acts of the Left's LUNATIC FRINGE.

 

[BrokeLoser]

There is going to be no wall.

There is going to be no mass deportation.

The e-verify card is the way to go with death penalties on businesses that knowingly hire illegals.

Death penalty? No.

I agree though that -- no wall. Its just not going to happen. How about we put that money into the infrastructure Obama wanted to fix? No mass deportation either although trump will continue to do as much harm as he can to families. RWNJs love that.

Work permits. Fact is, we need Mexico as much, if not more so than they need us.

Wolfstrike said they trashed their country and want to come here for "easy street". Nothing could be further from the truth. The US trashed Mexico and their economy. We destroyed their manufacturing and their agriculture and gave them nothing in return.

We had lunch with friends yesterday. Some are from Mexico and we talked about family and friends who are still there and do not want to come here. they do well there, live much better there. As do Americanos who move there.

I wish the haters would open their minds and hearts, educate themselves, get to know these people they lie about.

Ain't gonna happen though.

Hammer time on american businesses interested in cheap labor costs.

Start with trump and his sleaze kids BUT -

If small family farms lose migrant farmers, they're out of business in one season. Then, just as the Repubs want, the 1% steps in and buys them out for pennies on the dollar.

The US really does need migrant farm workers as much as they need us. We also need the trade, both directions.

The real problem lies with the US buying drugs from Mexico. Put a stop to that, and the drug traffic stops.

Problem solved.

NEGATIVE!
The real truth hurts, I know....but the re-packaging of facts is getting real old. This issue has been made so trivial; put whatever spin on it you want to make yourself feel better or noble but there is nothing trivial about this at all. It's time that people get real and quit being scared, you have to call it like it is and see things for what they really are. Lets GENERALIZE here people, lets not talk about the two in ten that may contribute to our society in a positive way; lets focus on the eight in ten that are an absolute drain and detriment to our society in almost every way. I'll spare everyone the cleverly worded rhetoric as there's enough of that here; lets not even get in to how illegals drain our taxpayer dollars before even getting here...border patrol..etc. Lets talk about real issues without tip-toeing around on egg shells. Lets get specific, and remember when I say "illegals" I mean currently illegal or of illegal descent.
*Illegals have babies here paid for by taxpayers (prenatal care, birth...etc)
*Illegals fill our hospital emergency rooms so taxpayers can't get swift and proper care
*Illegals are comfortable on welfare for life
*Illegals don't know when to stop having babies (pure ignorance)
*Illegals don't know what condoms are or what contraception is
*Illegals work cash paying jobs or low paying jobs and never pay income tax
*Illegals steal entry level jobs from our kids (all McDonalds and Walmarts are staffed with 40 year olds of illegal descent)
*Illegals steal government funding from our kids (college funding, mortgages etc)
*Illegals are the cause for section eight housing and "ghettos" in general (the decay of society)
*Illegals paint their homes turquoise and bright yellow
*Illegals don't keep their homes and property clean
*Illegals have to many pitbulls and chihuahua's they can't afford to properly take care of
*Illegals spray paint and deface others property
*Illegals drive unlicensed and uninsured
*45 year old illegal males stare at my 14 year old daughter like a wild lion looks at a gazelle
*Illegals stuff 13 people to a 3 bedroom home
*Illegals make up a large percentage of our prison populations (paid for by tax payers)
*Illegals are Dodger, Raider and Laker fans
*Illegals often rape and molest their own family members and it usually goes unnoticed as it's almost acceptable among the culture
*Illegals have relationships with our children and often bring them down to their level
*Illegals are the cause for Obama Care and my two week wait times for a Dr's appointment
*Illegals are the reason my children have to learn a second language to communicate in America
*Illegals are the reason I sometimes feel like a foreigner in my own country
*Illegals dump their junk and garbage on others property
So besides paying sales tax on those Bud Lights and Budweiser's when they don't do a beer run how do illegals contribute in a positive way? Get real people, stop sugar coating, stop with the noble religious B.S....It is what it is and it sucks big time! Someone has to get angry and be willing to do something aggressive about it. Better yet, lets all come together and quit being scared. Remember, lets GENERALIZE...nobody gives two-shits about the 20% do-gooders...we are talking about the 80% that suck!

 

[Wolfstrike]

I support the wall, but it's not the solution

This is perhaps the most interesting thing you wrote. That statement, as an intellectual dichotomy, deserves to be discussed. It's something worth saying and seeing that someone thinks it. Indeed, it's one of the more discursively legitimate thoughts I've seen expressed on USMB, if I'm honest. Can you expound on how you come to support the wall and yet think it is not the solution?

• What about the wall merits your support?
• The wall ils not the solution to what?

If every business in America can be shaken down by the IRS to pay taxes, then every business can be threatened about hiring people without a Green Card. You're found hiring illegals, you go to jail.

That paradigm already exists.

• Legal Pitfalls of Hiring Undocumented Immigrants
  
• Penalties for Employers Hiring Illegal Immigrants

A problem with the existing model is that it tasks the wrong people with enforcing the law. It stipulates that a business -- the entity that's seeking workers, in some cases desperately so -- reject a qualified candidate for the job the company needs to have done. Of course, a company prefers to pay the lowest wage possible, but at the end of the day, if qualified legal workers don't apply for the job, the work and the contribution it makes to the bottom line still needs to be performed/delivered.

Another dilemma is that it simply is not in the state's interest to incarcerate a business owner who's merely tying to make a profit. That's especially so if jailing the entrepreneur may cause their company to fold. That's not good for tax revenues.

...then we slowly reduce the people who can obtain a Green Card to zero. All the millions of people can move back.

The jobs illegal immigrants may take from Americans are jobs that, for the most part, Americans don't apply to obtain. The low wage jobs illegals perform existed prior to the illegals. Employers would not, to whatever extent they do, hire illegal workers had Americans not refused to take those jobs.

• Immigrants Aren't Stealing American Jobs -- More evidence surfaces that low-skilled native workers pursue different jobs than their immigrant counterparts.
  
• Is Any Job Better Than No Job? -- Employers shouldn't be surprised that Americans won't take their crummy, low-wage jobs.
  
• The Economic and Fiscal Consequences of Immigration (2016)
  • We found little to no negative effects on overall wages and employment of native-born workers in the longer term.
    
  • High-skilled immigrants, especially in technology and science, who have come in larger numbers in recent years, had a significant “positive impact” on Americans with skills, and also on working-class Americans. They spurred innovation, helping to create jobs.
    
  • Teenagers who did not finish high school also saw their hours of work reduced by immigrants, although not their ability to find jobs. Economists found many reasons that young people who drop out of high school struggle to find work. There is no indication immigration is the major factor.

1) because there's no point when people are being invited here to work

2) it's not about making a buck anymore, it's about the destruction of the country.

3) when I was a kid there was a lot of white construction workers, they didn't quit, they moved to other states because they saw the racism against them long before anyone ever talked about it.
here in California we now have entire trades that have been completely mexicanized . Many jobs it's odd for anyone other than Mexicans to apply for

 

[dannyboys]

Our exalted Leader makes a practice of hiring illegals, don't think he's going to call the FBI...

Prove it or STFU!
You can't do either.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I support the wall, but it's not the solution

This is perhaps the most interesting thing you wrote. That statement, as an intellectual dichotomy, deserves to be discussed. It's something worth saying and seeing that someone thinks it. Indeed, it's one of the more discursively legitimate thoughts I've seen expressed on USMB, if I'm honest. Can you expound on how you come to support the wall and yet think it is not the solution?

• What about the wall merits your support?
• The wall ils not the solution to what?

If every business in America can be shaken down by the IRS to pay taxes, then every business can be threatened about hiring people without a Green Card. You're found hiring illegals, you go to jail.

That paradigm already exists.

• Legal Pitfalls of Hiring Undocumented Immigrants
  
• Penalties for Employers Hiring Illegal Immigrants

A problem with the existing model is that it tasks the wrong people with enforcing the law. It stipulates that a business -- the entity that's seeking workers, in some cases desperately so -- reject a qualified candidate for the job the company needs to have done. Of course, a company prefers to pay the lowest wage possible, but at the end of the day, if qualified legal workers don't apply for the job, the work and the contribution it makes to the bottom line still needs to be performed/delivered.

Another dilemma is that it simply is not in the state's interest to incarcerate a business owner who's merely tying to make a profit. That's especially so if jailing the entrepreneur may cause their company to fold. That's not good for tax revenues.

...then we slowly reduce the people who can obtain a Green Card to zero. All the millions of people can move back.

The jobs illegal immigrants may take from Americans are jobs that, for the most part, Americans don't apply to obtain. The low wage jobs illegals perform existed prior to the illegals. Employers would not, to whatever extent they do, hire illegal workers had Americans not refused to take those jobs.

• Immigrants Aren't Stealing American Jobs -- More evidence surfaces that low-skilled native workers pursue different jobs than their immigrant counterparts.
  
• Is Any Job Better Than No Job? -- Employers shouldn't be surprised that Americans won't take their crummy, low-wage jobs.
  
• The Economic and Fiscal Consequences of Immigration (2016)
  • We found little to no negative effects on overall wages and employment of native-born workers in the longer term.
    
  • High-skilled immigrants, especially in technology and science, who have come in larger numbers in recent years, had a significant “positive impact” on Americans with skills, and also on working-class Americans. They spurred innovation, helping to create jobs.
    
  • Teenagers who did not finish high school also saw their hours of work reduced by immigrants, although not their ability to find jobs. Economists found many reasons that young people who drop out of high school struggle to find work. There is no indication immigration is the major factor.

1) because there's no point when people are being invited here to work

2) it's not about making a buck anymore, it's about the destruction of the country.

3) when I was a kid there was a lot of white construction workers, they didn't quit, they moved to other states because they saw the racism against them long before anyone ever talked about it.
here in California we now have entire trades that have been completely mexicanized . Many jobs it's odd for anyone other than Mexicans to apply for

Okay. TY. At least I understand the title statement now.

I don't necessarily embrace some of what you shared, but I didn't ask to discuss your stance. I just wanted to understand your POV. I do. Thanks.