I Am Ashamed of My Country

[saveliberty]

How conveinent, now there's no way to stop this conspiracy from controlling us. lol

Can't prove it exists and can't stop it. What a whiner.

 

[HUGGY]

That statement is an oxymoron.

You've got passion...I have to hand it to ya. Thing is that people with power...especially the self appointed or those that hold power ouside of the democratic proccess do not give power up willingly. I dissagree that Ron Paul is going to be elected for one and for two if by some miracle he was, he would certainly meet the same fate as Kennedy. You are naive to think otherwise. If you believe the financial banking system is so rigged then what we are talking about is akin to a dictatorship like Lybia or Syria. Even a popular revolt cannot unseat those holding the puppet strings. They have the resources to and most likely the access to the media to keep the public sold on thier "to big to fail" system of manipulating finance and currency. Where I am going here is not a pretty place. The only way to remove people like that is the same way Gudaffi met his end. That will not happen. There is no way to organise a big enough cleansing action. Maybe if you could recruit a thousand like minded pilots..build maybe 6,000 200lb anti-personell and/or incindiary bombs.. steal a thousand planes suitable for the ranges and payload required...fit the planes for the job... organise a thousand diversions..there goes another thousand people on land.. spend alot of resources finding out where ALL of the key players live/sleep and in one night blow them ALL to kindom come ya might have a chance at a new begining. But that's all you would get. The crack down by the authorities would be severe. Most if not all the pilots would be hunted down and executed or sent to some far away gulag. Ya it's a fun dream to save the world but then ya have to ask yourself...Is the world really worth saving? Would a better system really come to be? Not likely. The sad truth is that for every intelligent man that' see's the truth there are ten that don't see it and if they did ...they wouldn't give a rat's ass. This system would still be a future victim to some other greedy power drunk assholes and nothing would change. That unfortunately is the way it is.

Huggy:

You make a lot of sense and I agree with just about all of what you said.

I do not think armed revolt is the answer and I do not think I will ever succeed in waking up enough people to change things through an election. Why do I persist? Because I want to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Also, life is a journey, not a destination. Its not what you accomplish that counts, but how walk the path. Someday, when I meet Jesus, prostrate with head bowed, I want to hear Him say, "Well done my son and welcome home". If I became a fatalist like you, there is no chance that I would ever hear those words.

Evil is never overcome by joining in or tolerating it. This is what is wrong with this nation. We think we are fighting evil in our war on terror, but we have become what we fear most. Indeed, we are terrorist nation fighting to make the world a better place when we no longer have any claim to the moral high ground. We became our enemy to defeat him and this was his greatest victory. Want proof: invasion, torture, rendition, Guantanamo Bay, murder, no constitution, Shock and Awe, lies, deception, etc., all done to make the world a better place. Can you grasp the irony and horror in this. Stop and really think about it, its not just crazy, but totally insane.

Ahmen to that! You are preaching to the quire brother. Yes at best a prudent man can only speak truth to power and know his heart is in the right place in spite of the avalanche of indifference by the sheeple and out the right lies sold 24/7 by those with thier bloody hands in our pockets.

We are only trying to make the world a better place for EXXON Mobile to ship oil in....For Montsano to put a choke hold on world food.. For the multinational pharms to drain the resources of the sick and dying.

The fact is that even though we doth protest we are still complicit in the horror. Talk is cheap. If you are not blind you do not get the same parking space as someone that cannot see. If it cannot be fire with fire then maybe it can be sparks and wetting the enemies matches. Something I learned a long time ago as a mechanic, and it still holds true today, is that a thousand taps with a small ball peen hammer is just as effective as a big hit with a sledge hammer. It would be possible to help turn the tide of public inattention to awareness and action with enough financing and access to desireable media outlets. It is possible to beat em at thier own game. Take Fox.. Murdoch poured millions into that network before he turned a dime and changed the message from "Cops" and "The Simpsons" to the main appologist and voice of the fascists. He ran at a loss for about ten years before he had finally loaded the dice and padded the Neilsons in his favor. Copying his business plan with the end result the truth instead of lies is do-able.. Nobody has to get killed. Trouble is that nobody has the guts to REALLY walk the talk except those with indifference and evil in thier black hearts.

Safe landings,

Sean Corey

 

[Too Tall]

Ah! A new face on this thread. Welcome USMCSergeant.

Being ex-military, I agree with your sentiments entirely save one point; very few real terrorists are being killed in combat operations in the Far East. Your statment is correct if you classify someone planting a roadside bomb as a terroist. But the truth is that those doing so would not be planting that bomb if we weren't there. Therefore, the bomb planters, if you will, are not engaged in terrorism, but instead, just like us, they are engaged in combat operations. Having put their activities on equal footing with ours, then as a Zarcan, not an American, let's call a spade a spade. We, the Americans are conducting combat operations as invaders. The so called terrorists are conducting combat operations to repel a foreign invader. In other words, the most appropriate name for the so called terrorists is "patriot".

I said it time and time again. You cannot fight terrorism with conventional warfare. Conventional warfare, besides turning citizens into combatants also kills many innocent civilians. These things just create more terrorist (combatants) and the beat goes on and on and on.

I guess I was imagining those planes flying into the WTC, or the one hitting the pentagon, or the one that crashed into a field.

We hunted down and killed/captured many al qaeda/taliban members. Those guys are/were terrorists. Would you not agree?

What does what happened at the World Trade Center have to do with our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nothing, that's what. So why are we fighting wars in Iraq and Afgahnistan? So the NWO can rule the world? 9/11 was a criminal committed primarily by Saudi nationals. And as a result we invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Does this make sense? I guess it does to you.

We no longer have combat troops in Iraq and we invaded Afghanistan because the people who planned the WTC attack were there. Are you suggesting that Osama bin laden had nothing to do with the WTC attack?

 

[HUGGY]

I guess I was imagining those planes flying into the WTC, or the one hitting the pentagon, or the one that crashed into a field.

We hunted down and killed/captured many al qaeda/taliban members. Those guys are/were terrorists. Would you not agree?

What does what happened at the World Trade Center have to do with our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nothing, that's what. So why are we fighting wars in Iraq and Afgahnistan? So the NWO can rule the world? 9/11 was a criminal committed primarily by Saudi nationals. And as a result we invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Does this make sense? I guess it does to you.

We no longer have combat troops in Iraq and we invaded Afghanistan because the people who planned the WTC attack were there. Are you suggesting that Osama bin laden had nothing to do with the WTC attack?

We didn't need to "invade" Afgahnistan any more than we needed to "invade" Pakistan to kill Ossama Bin Ladin.

 

[initforme]

Being ashamed of my country is my god given right. Been feeling that way since the 80's. No reason to stop now. God I love this.

 

[citizenal]

I guess I was imagining those planes flying into the WTC, or the one hitting the pentagon, or the one that crashed into a field.

We hunted down and killed/captured many al qaeda/taliban members. Those guys are/were terrorists. Would you not agree?

What does what happened at the World Trade Center have to do with our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nothing, that's what. So why are we fighting wars in Iraq and Afgahnistan? So the NWO can rule the world? 9/11 was a criminal committed primarily by Saudi nationals. And as a result we invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Does this make sense? I guess it does to you.

We no longer have combat troops in Iraq and we invaded Afghanistan because the people who planned the WTC attack were there. Are you suggesting that Osama bin laden had nothing to do with the WTC attack?

Too Tall:

"We invaded Afghanistan because the people who planned the WTC attack were there". How do you know this. I never heard it before.

No, of course I am not saying that Bin Laden had nothing to do with the WTC. Look, if someone robs a bank in Nebraska, do we Shock and Awe Omaha and send in the military to root out the bank robbers. Of course not! Terrorists are dispicable people, but they are criminals, not a military force. Where did we finally get Bin Laden? Pakistan! How many troops were with him when we murdered him? One; his wife! So why did we invade Iraq? Because it was a good place to start. What bullshit. Fighting terrorism with conventional forces is like driving a thumbtack with a sledgehammer and makes about the same amount of sense. Not only is it absurd, but it is counter productive because creates more terrorists than you can ever kill. And in case you are interested our political leaders and military know and understand this, so there as to be a different reason why we are fighting these insane wars.

The reason for terrorism in the world is because the Western powers backed the establishment of the State of Israel in what was essentially Arab Territory. And we thought there would be no backlash from this? What the hell do you think the Crusades were all about? Just because the Crusades occurred in the middle ages, why did we think we would get a different reaction this time? And then to add insult to injury, we decide to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Is this the way to broker a solution to the Israeli/Palestinian question? Or is this the way to pour gasoline on the fire?

The only way any of the above makes sense is if you realize that we are now fighting in the Middle East because the Zionist who control our goverment wanted us to once again fight Israel's battles and used 9/11 to accomplish this goal. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Taliban were giving aid and support to A-Q and OBL and gang.

Bush et al was right on this: invade Afghanistan, kick the Taliban's ass, and chase A-Q.

Of course, the bushies threw it away, and it took BHO to kill OBL.

 

[citizenal]

Being ashamed of my country is my god given right. Been feeling that way since the 80's. No reason to stop now. God I love this.

initforme:

"God" in your first sentence should have been capitalized. But yes, there is nothing shameful about being ashamed of what our government is doing to the World.
From my perspective, if you are not ashamed, then you just do not comprehend what is really going on. Talk about brainwashing! Every one of our inalienable rights has been wrongfully and needlessly taken away and most Americans see nothing wrong with this because it was "necessary to make us more secure". I feel so safe right now that I am pissing in my pants.

 

[citizenal]

The Taliban were giving aid and support to A-Q and OBL and gang.

Bush et al was right on this: invade Afghanistan, kick the Taliban's ass, and chase A-Q.

Of course, the bushies threw it away, and it took BHO to kill OBL.

Jake:

We are fighting the same people in Afghanistan that the Russians were fighting before 9/11. They weren't called the Taliban or Al Qaeda then. If you want to call them these things to bolster your position, be my guest, but don't expect me to buy your argument.

 

[JakeStarkey]

citizenal ignores the point that we could have forced our will on the country as late as the final months of 2002, before the neo-con war mongers began pulling the helicopter and spec op units needed for controlling the countryside.

If you, citizenal, are saying we should leave Afghanistan, shoot, pal, pony up and let's gallop out of there.

 

[saveliberty]

What does what happened at the World Trade Center have to do with our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nothing, that's what. So why are we fighting wars in Iraq and Afgahnistan? So the NWO can rule the world? 9/11 was a criminal committed primarily by Saudi nationals. And as a result we invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Does this make sense? I guess it does to you.

We no longer have combat troops in Iraq and we invaded Afghanistan because the people who planned the WTC attack were there. Are you suggesting that Osama bin laden had nothing to do with the WTC attack?

Too Tall:

"We invaded Afghanistan because the people who planned the WTC attack were there". How do you know this. I never heard it before.

No, of course I am not saying that Bin Laden had nothing to do with the WTC. Look, if someone robs a bank in Nebraska, do we Shock and Awe Omaha and send in the military to root out the bank robbers. Of course not! Terrorists are dispicable people, but they are criminals, not a military force. Where did we finally get Bin Laden? Pakistan! How many troops were with him when we murdered him? One; his wife! So why did we invade Iraq? Because it was a good place to start. What bullshit. Fighting terrorism with conventional forces is like driving a thumbtack with a sledgehammer and makes about the same amount of sense. Not only is it absurd, but it is counter productive because creates more terrorists than you can ever kill. And in case you are interested our political leaders and military know and understand this, so there as to be a different reason why we are fighting these insane wars.

The reason for terrorism in the world is because the Western powers backed the establishment of the State of Israel in what was essentially Arab Territory. And we thought there would be no backlash from this? What the hell do you think the Crusades were all about? Just because the Crusades occurred in the middle ages, why did we think we would get a different reaction this time? And then to add insult to injury, we decide to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Is this the way to broker a solution to the Israeli/Palestinian question? Or is this the way to pour gasoline on the fire?

The only way any of the above makes sense is if you realize that we are now fighting in the Middle East because the Zionist who control our goverment wanted us to once again fight Israel's battles and used 9/11 to accomplish this goal. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

You're pretty ignorant of history. The terrorists who planned 9/11 were in Afghanistan. They moved into Pakistan when we invaded. Once again, you can't prove the first thing to your theory. Just a hater and nothing more.

 

[Billo_Really]

You're pretty ignorant of history. The terrorists who planned 9/11 were in Afghanistan.

That's right! They were "in" Afghanistan. They weren't Afghanistan. Nor were they the government of Afghanistan. Or the civilian population of Afghanistan. But that didn't stop us from fucking up the entire country and installing one of the most corrupt governments on the planet to run things. How much tax payer dollars did we spend on that? How much money could we have saved if we would of taken the Taliban up on their offer to turn over UBL?

They moved into Pakistan when we invaded.

So why the fuck are we still there? If they were the reason we're there and their not in the country anymore, what the fuck are we still doing there? How much is that costing us? You think you're a patriot, wasting our tax dollars on bullshit?

 

[Billo_Really]

We are fighting the same people in Afghanistan that the Russians were fighting before 9/11. They weren't called the Taliban or Al Qaeda then. If you want to call them these things to bolster your position, be my guest, but don't expect me to buy your argument.

It's worse than that! We're paying the very people we're fighting to guard our convoy's. As long as we cut them a check, they won't shoot at our vehicles.

 

[saveliberty]

You're pretty ignorant of history. The terrorists who planned 9/11 were in Afghanistan.

That's right! They were "in" Afghanistan. They weren't Afghanistan. Nor were they the government of Afghanistan. Or the civilian population of Afghanistan. But that didn't stop us from fucking up the entire country and installing one of the most corrupt governments on the planet to run things. How much tax payer dollars did we spend on that? How much money could we have saved if we would of taken the Taliban up on their offer to turn over UBL?

They moved into Pakistan when we invaded.

So why the fuck are we still there? If they were the reason we're there and their not in the country anymore, what the fuck are we still doing there? How much is that costing us? You think you're a patriot, wasting our tax dollars on bullshit?

Where did I say we should stay in Afghanistan loinboy? Bring everyone home has been my view for at least five years.

 

[Billo_Really]

Where did I say we should stay in Afghanistan loinboy? Bring everyone home has been my view for at least five years.

Sorry, my bad.

I apologize.

 

[saveliberty]

Where did I say we should stay in Afghanistan loinboy? Bring everyone home has been my view for at least five years.

Sorry, my bad.

I apologize.

No need. We should be worked up about ignoring the history and geography of that area. The history is tribal peoples who have repeatedly repelled invaders through using the mountains.

 

[Billo_Really]

No need. We should be worked up about ignoring the history and geography of that area. The history is tribal peoples who have repeatedly repelled invaders through using the mountains.

There's another way to look at it.

Now that the Woodstock generation has taken over control of the country; and Afghanistan does have some of the best poppy fields in the world; just maybe, the real reason we went in there, was to gain control of their no.1 export?

Our new mission statement should read:

"THERE'S NO DOPE, LIKE GOOD DOPE!"

 

[citizenal]

citizenal ignores the point that we could have forced our will on the country as late as the final months of 2002, before the neo-con war mongers began pulling the helicopter and spec op units needed for controlling the countryside.

If you, citizenal, are saying we should leave Afghanistan, shoot, pal, pony up and let's gallop out of there.

Jake:

I am not really up on the specifics. However, if things are true to form, for every real terrorist killed, we kill 50 freedom fighters and 100 civilians. I'll bet more good Americans die in these wars than real terrorists and if you throw in the maimed, walking wounded, and suicides, I'll bet it 10 to 1. Through on top of this the fact that of the real terrorist, very few would ever get to the United States to harm America or Americans.

LORD HAVE MERCY ON US! WE ARE IGNORANT CRETANS AND KNOW NOT WHAT WE DO.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are entitled to your opinion, citizenal.

 

[saveliberty]

No need. We should be worked up about ignoring the history and geography of that area. The history is tribal peoples who have repeatedly repelled invaders through using the mountains.

There's another way to look at it.

Now that the Woodstock generation has taken over control of the country; and Afghanistan does have some of the best poppy fields in the world; just maybe, the real reason we went in there, was to gain control of their no.1 export?

Our new mission statement should read:

"THERE'S NO DOPE, LIKE GOOD DOPE!"

There was an attempt to get farmers in Afghanistan to raise food crops instead of poppies. This war really needs to be studied very closely and our overall war strategy revamped.