Hunting and the Wildlife Overpopulation Myth

[daveman]

We processed and slow BBQ'd this boar and it ranked right with any meat I've ever eaten.
tennessee hog hunting - YouTube

You can make anything edible, I reckon. A guy I work with is involved in a big wild game feast every year. One year a fellow gave him a dead possum and told him to cook it. He slow cooked it in a crockpot, deboned it, and put barbecue sauce on it. Said it was pretty good. Pulled possum sammiches!

Yuk. My mother cooked a possum once for my brother. I was VERY young, but I recall it was really greasy.

Yeah, I'm not interested. I've seen too many exploded on the road.

Possum. The other gray meat.

 

[Sunshine]

You can make anything edible, I reckon. A guy I work with is involved in a big wild game feast every year. One year a fellow gave him a dead possum and told him to cook it. He slow cooked it in a crockpot, deboned it, and put barbecue sauce on it. Said it was pretty good. Pulled possum sammiches!

Yuk. My mother cooked a possum once for my brother. I was VERY young, but I recall it was really greasy.

Yeah, I'm not interested. I've seen too many exploded on the road.

Possum. The other gray meat.

I have seen several armadillos since moving home. They were not at this latitude when I moved away. But they sure are now. Possum on the half shell.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Nope, don’t know anything about people in that state – never claimed that I did.

I do KNOW, however, that the liberals over here have made hunting EXPENSIVE. Deer meat costs more than going to the store and buying it. That does not stop the hunters though – the hunters here hunt because that is what they like to do (most of them at least). The cost is rather irrelevant.


BTW, I said that I found your claim dubious, not wrong. All I can go off is my experience until you had provided me with more than a blanket stament. Don’t take what I state farther than I meant it

You are seriously mistaken if you think deer meat is more expensive than beef.

Correct. The cost of bagging, processing, and freezing one whole deer is about what 4 or 5 beef roasts would cost. And all those little children liberals fret over have meat for a good long time. And smoked venison is just to die for.

venison certainly can be expensive

you forgot the cost of time verses working --LOL

we process our own deer and the cost per pound rises and lowers with the size

of the deer

you can reclaim some of the cost by selling the antlers hide and sinew teeth and bones


as for beef and pork we have a local ma and pa butcher process a pig and a cow as needed

we buy very little meat from the grocery store

 

[Sunshine]

You are seriously mistaken if you think deer meat is more expensive than beef.

Correct. The cost of bagging, processing, and freezing one whole deer is about what 4 or 5 beef roasts would cost. And all those little children liberals fret over have meat for a good long time. And smoked venison is just to die for.

venison certainly can be expensive

you forgot the cost of time verses working --LOL

we process our own deer and the cost per pound rises and lowers with the size

of the deer

you can reclaim some of the cost by selling the antlers hide and sinew teeth and bones


as for beef and pork we have a local ma and pa butcher process a pig and a cow as needed

we buy very little meat from the grocery store

Didn't think of the cost of hunting vs working because most folk here don't take off without pay to hunt. They plan their vacations around hunting season. I know a guy who uses the hides and sinew to make moccasins. He claims they never wear out.

The husband of a friend of mine who has a little yorkie dog bagged a dear last year. He put the antlers in a big pot to boil the skin off them, and their little dog went NUTS! He didn't settle down for a week or more after that. I guess he thought he was next or something.

 

[Missourian]

I refer you to post #42.

As for the population size, well that merely confirms that managed ecosystems don't work. You're constantly trying to make up for the unintended consequences of A by introducing B, and then you'll have to introduce C to manage the unintended consequences of B and so on. The problems you are referring to are direct results from our determination to kill off wild predators.

You know what? Ecosystems work perfectly when they are left alone.

A lot of people here simply don't have the money to buy super market beef. Meat is meat. Those freezers full of venison help sustain many families here. You know nothing about this area. Many here would have starved during the Great Depression had it not been for the abundance of wildlife.

Hunting – at least in its modern form – is FAR more expensive than supermarket beef so I find that claim rather dubious. Purchasing the license, tags, weapons, ammo and having the meat butchered is not cheap.

I guess you could save on the butcher and do the meat yourself but you are still likely to run up a higher tab than supermarket meet which can be had for very little.

You are only referring to large game.

Squirrels, rabbits, frogs, turtles, dove, pigeon and snipe can be taken with a small game permit ($10) and a Migratory Bird Hunting Permit ($6).

A small game & fishing license for residents here is $19.

So for $25, you are set for the year.

As for firearms...up until recently I did 90% of my hunting with $200 worth of long guns...a .22LR and a 12 gauge.

Last year I added a .17HMR single shot that was on clearance from Wal-mart.

 

[Missourian]

Yuk. My mother cooked a possum once for my brother. I was VERY young, but I recall it was really greasy.

Yeah, I'm not interested. I've seen too many exploded on the road.

Possum. The other gray meat.

I have seen several armadillos since moving home. They were not at this latitude when I moved away. But they sure are now. Possum on the half shell.

Armadillos carry leperacy...http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/health/28leprosy.html?_r=0.

 

[daveman]

Yuk. My mother cooked a possum once for my brother. I was VERY young, but I recall it was really greasy.

Yeah, I'm not interested. I've seen too many exploded on the road.

Possum. The other gray meat.

I have seen several armadillos since moving home. They were not at this latitude when I moved away. But they sure are now. Possum on the half shell.

Yup, me too. Buzzards won't hardly touch 'em...can't get into 'em.

 

[Missourian]

And to hunters in the south - I hear you're slacking on the wild hog populations. You better get that under control. Heard it's up to 2 million in Texas.

Missouri DNR has requested hunters NOT pursue feral hogs...

Why Is Hunting For Feral Hogs Discouraged?

Although it seems a contradiction, hunters who target feral hogs interfere with efforts to eradicate them. For example, weeks may be spent conditioning a group of hogs to come to a specific location so they can be eliminated in a single control action. If, during that time, a hunter kills one or maybe two of the hogs, the rest of the group moves to a new area, which means that the lengthy and expensive eradication process must begin again at a new location. Because the goal is to eliminate feral hogs, the Conservation Department seeks to discourage the hog hunting culture. If you want to hunt specifically for feral hogs, you should do so in another state, not in Missouri.


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They only advise shooting hogs when they are happened upon accidentally...

Although the Conservation Department discourages anyone from hunting specifically for feral hogs, hunters afield for other game are encouraged to shoot feral hogs on sight when they are encountered. In this way hunters can help eradicate this dangerous and destructive pest.


Feral Hog Control | Missouri Department of Conservation

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I am abiding by their request...if I see one, I'll take it...but I'm not going out to actively hunt them.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

No way is it cheaper to buy meat at the store. Now if your one of those guys who pays ten grand for trophy hunt yeah.
The only expense for a lot of hunters is the licence and shells. When I hunted my own place I could kill five deer a year plus all the exotics I wanted.
For about fifty bucks.

I have the same opportunity. I can hunt my land without needing a license, I process all my kills, I have a walk-in freezer, my out of pocket cost is pretty much limited to ammo and butcher paper.

If you're in Texas you still need a license to hunt on your own property. Legally anyway...
Unless of course you're referring to hog and coyote and the like.

I've been hunting and fishing my property for 20 years and I've never had a license and I've never seen a game warden on my land. I can legally kill deer if I do so to protect crops but I couldn't keep the meat, I would have to donate it. And also I can't be in the act of hunting when I take one down.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

And to hunters in the south - I hear you're slacking on the wild hog populations. You better get that under control. Heard it's up to 2 million in Texas.

Missouri DNR has requested hunters NOT pursue feral hogs...

Why Is Hunting For Feral Hogs Discouraged?

Although it seems a contradiction, hunters who target feral hogs interfere with efforts to eradicate them. For example, weeks may be spent conditioning a group of hogs to come to a specific location so they can be eliminated in a single control action. If, during that time, a hunter kills one or maybe two of the hogs, the rest of the group moves to a new area, which means that the lengthy and expensive eradication process must begin again at a new location. Because the goal is to eliminate feral hogs, the Conservation Department seeks to discourage the hog hunting culture. If you want to hunt specifically for feral hogs, you should do so in another state, not in Missouri.


​

They only advise shooting hogs when they are happened upon accidentally...

Although the Conservation Department discourages anyone from hunting specifically for feral hogs, hunters afield for other game are encouraged to shoot feral hogs on sight when they are encountered. In this way hunters can help eradicate this dangerous and destructive pest.


Feral Hog Control | Missouri Department of Conservation

​

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.
.
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I am abiding by their request...if I see one, I'll take it...but I'm not going out to actively hunt them.

I have a pack of hogs on my property than I've been feeding for a few years. I can go out there with a sack of corn, throw some on the ground and then take my time picking the one I want to kill. I take my shot, pig drops other pigs scatter, but they're back eating within minutes while I field dress the downed pig and leave the internals for the hogs to clean up.

These pigs are so used to gun shots they don't scatter far.

 

[DarkLion]

And such is a complete impossibility. Our very existence means that the ecosystem is NOT left alone. The effect of houses and populations are stark.

I really question the point of the OP though. The original supposition: hunters do not love the wild, is utterly irrelevant. I don’t care what hunters think of the wild. I am sure that there are many that do and many that don’t care past the kill they get but in the end it is utterly meaningless what the hunters think. They are allowed to hunt because that is what freedom looks like. The state regulates the action to limit it impact and beyond that, there really is nothing else for them to do. What are you trying to get at? Do you want all hunting stopped? What is it that you are trying to say here other than you don’t like hunting?

I am not as "anti-hunting" as I seem. While it's something I personally would never do, it doesn't really bother me that much either. I'm not one of those PETA nuts who weeps over the fuzzy little bunnies put down by the big bad hunters.

Rather, what I take exception to is the manipulation of ecosystems for hunters' benefit. If the wilds were simply left alone, with predators allowed to return to prominence; and hunters accepted the risk of entering predators' domain without killing predators who kill humans, I'd be perfectly fine with it and this OP would never have been written.

Really, that kind of hunting would intrigue me. The challenge of finding game, competing with predators to get a kill, the risks of becoming prey yourself; now that sounds interesting and I might even be interested in taking part in that.

 

[DarkLion]

Some predators may prey on humans. People tend to object to that. Others may prey on livestock and pets. Human predation is no less natural than wolf or bear and humans are as much a part of the ecosystem as any other animal and better able to discriminate between helpful and harmful.

It is unnatural because when humans hunt predators, they are hunting them to either reduce their population or eradicate them entirely. Humans are the only animals that do that. Other predators simply hunt for enough food to feed themselves, or in the case of foxes they hunt when game presents itself and then cache it for later. But either way, when predators kill it's a very small scope of life lost. When humans do it, it's much larger.

Moreover, humans are not "better able to discriminate between helpful and harmful" because their activity always leads to unintended consequences, which I'll delve into in subsequent posts. Read on....

 

[DarkLion]

A lot of people here simply don't have the money to buy super market beef. Meat is meat. Those freezers full of venison help sustain many families here. You know nothing about this area. Many here would have starved during the Great Depression had it not been for the abundance of wildlife. It is really disheartening when someone like you cares nothing for poor people and would deprive them of their best source of protein. Well, daveman and I have set straight another one who thought he should be running this state..

The great depression is over.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Some predators may prey on humans. People tend to object to that. Others may prey on livestock and pets. Human predation is no less natural than wolf or bear and humans are as much a part of the ecosystem as any other animal and better able to discriminate between helpful and harmful.

It is unnatural because when humans hunt predators, they are hunting them to either reduce their population or eradicate them entirely. Humans are the only animals that do that. Other predators simply hunt for enough food to feed themselves, or in the case of foxes they hunt when game presents itself and then cache it for later. But either way, when predators kill it's a very small scope of life lost. When humans do it, it's much larger.

Moreover, humans are not "better able to discriminate between helpful and harmful" because their activity always leads to unintended consequences, which I'll delve into in subsequent posts. Read on....

It is unnatural because when humans hunt predators, they are hunting them to either reduce their population or eradicate them entirely. Humans are the only animals that do that.

lots of critters eat themselves out of house and home

go try again

 

[DarkLion]

Dunno about where you are, but preditors around here are ballooning. Coyotes are everywhere. When I was a kid, I saw one. Total. Now I see roadkill coyotes on the road several times a week.

Do you know why that is? It's because wolves have been systematically destroyed across America. Wolves have always kept coyote populations in check, without them coyotes balloon, to the point to where coyotes are spreading into places they have never been. Same with coyotes and foxes, in areas where coyotes have been culled, fox populations grow.

There's a balance to nature, and mankind is always upsetting that balance.

 

[DarkLion]

You dont place humans above animals? So if I lined up a deer and your mother you wouldnt care which one I shot? Thats interesting.....strange but interesting.

Nice try, but no. I'd hold my mother higher than a deer or a strange human. I hold all my loved ones higher than animals or other humans. But strange humans and strange animals, they would be equal in my eyes. I'd also hold the animals I love as higher than strange humans.

What's your point?

 

[Montrovant]

Some predators may prey on humans. People tend to object to that. Others may prey on livestock and pets. Human predation is no less natural than wolf or bear and humans are as much a part of the ecosystem as any other animal and better able to discriminate between helpful and harmful.

It is unnatural because when humans hunt predators, they are hunting them to either reduce their population or eradicate them entirely. Humans are the only animals that do that. Other predators simply hunt for enough food to feed themselves, or in the case of foxes they hunt when game presents itself and then cache it for later. But either way, when predators kill it's a very small scope of life lost. When humans do it, it's much larger.

Moreover, humans are not "better able to discriminate between helpful and harmful" because their activity always leads to unintended consequences, which I'll delve into in subsequent posts. Read on....

What is or isn't natural is a fairly ambiguous concept.....unless, of course, you simply define natural as 'not human'.

 

[DarkLion]

Yuk. My mother cooked a possum once for my brother. I was VERY young, but I recall it was really greasy.

Disgusting. But it couldn't be any worse than squirrel, my dad used to hunt and eat them. I tried it once, and it was nothing but gristle and very stringy. No thanks.

 

[DarkLion]

Of course hunters hunt for food.

Oh sure, there's no enjoyment in it at all, huh?

And I notice you avoided the issue of killing by proxy. Hypocrite, know thyself.

A) I'm a vegetarian.

B) The animals in slaughterhouses were bred to be food. Some of the domesticated livestock we have couldn't even survive without man. While I have no desire to eat meat, I can accept store bought meat because the animals killed in the process were specifically there for that purpose.

I could accept traditional hunting as well, if environments were not manipulated to their detriment to support it. This isn't about killing animals; it's about destroying natural ecosystems for the perceived benefit of mankind.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Some predators may prey on humans. People tend to object to that. Others may prey on livestock and pets. Human predation is no less natural than wolf or bear and humans are as much a part of the ecosystem as any other animal and better able to discriminate between helpful and harmful.

It is unnatural because when humans hunt predators, they are hunting them to either reduce their population or eradicate them entirely. Humans are the only animals that do that. Other predators simply hunt for enough food to feed themselves, or in the case of foxes they hunt when game presents itself and then cache it for later. But either way, when predators kill it's a very small scope of life lost. When humans do it, it's much larger.

Moreover, humans are not "better able to discriminate between helpful and harmful" because their activity always leads to unintended consequences, which I'll delve into in subsequent posts. Read on....

It is unnatural because when humans hunt predators, they are hunting them to either reduce their population or eradicate them entirely. Humans are the only animals that do that. Other predators simply hunt for enough food to feed themselves, or in the case of foxes they hunt when game presents itself and then cache it for later. But either way, when predators kill it's a very small scope of life lost. When humans do it, it's much larger

That tale has a nice sound to it but is simply untrue. Nature simply sees no difference between predators that are human and those of another species as long as they get the job done. Animals will kill for all sorts of reasons other than hunger. Feel free to ask Mama Bear if that's true.