Hunting and the Wildlife Overpopulation Myth

[DarkLion]

From one of the bluest of blue states...Maryland:

Deer Hunting: An Effective Management Tool

The Maryland Department of Natural Resources (DNR) is responsible for the conservation and management of the state's native white-tailed deer population. The department's primary deer conservation goals are to ensure the well being of the species and its habitat while maintaining populations at levels compatible with human activity, land use and natural communities.​

Hunting remains the primary method for maintaining deer populations at appropriate levels, both in Maryland and throughout North America, despite vocal and visible protests of animal rights organizations.
​

Deer Hunting: An Effective Management Tool - Wildlife and Heritage Service - Maryland Department of Natural Resources

​

If we had not eradicated the natural predators, there would be no need for this

 

[DarkLion]

Are you a strict vegan?

I mean strict...no fish, nothing that contains or uses animal byproducts.

If not, you hunt by proxy.

You should be ashamed to hunt by proxy then proclaim that you would be ashamed to admit it.

Don't try to pretend hunters do it for food. It's about the joy of the hunt. The food is icing on the cake. When the supermarkets close down and there's no other way to obtain food, then maybe you'd have an argument that hunters do it out of necessity to feed themselves. Until then, it's disingenuous to say so.

 

[DarkLion]

There ARE too many deer where I live. It isn't safe to drive. And here it was put to a referendum how to manage this over population. The choice was either euthanasia or hunting. I voted for hunting because a lot of people here need the food. Meat doesn't grow on the super market shelf in a plastic container. There is no difference in breeding tame animals or wild ones for food. People still have to eat and forcing a family to buy expensive beef and other meat when they can have venison, rabbit, squirrel, raccoon, etc. etc. for free is ludicrous.

I refer you to post #42.

As for the population size, well that merely confirms that managed ecosystems don't work. You're constantly trying to make up for the unintended consequences of A by introducing B, and then you'll have to introduce C to manage the unintended consequences of B and so on. The problems you are referring to are direct results from our determination to kill off wild predators.

You know what? Ecosystems work perfectly when they are left alone.

 

[FA_Q2]

There ARE too many deer where I live. It isn't safe to drive. And here it was put to a referendum how to manage this over population. The choice was either euthanasia or hunting. I voted for hunting because a lot of people here need the food. Meat doesn't grow on the super market shelf in a plastic container. There is no difference in breeding tame animals or wild ones for food. People still have to eat and forcing a family to buy expensive beef and other meat when they can have venison, rabbit, squirrel, raccoon, etc. etc. for free is ludicrous.

I refer you to post #42.

As for the population size, well that merely confirms that managed ecosystems don't work. You're constantly trying to make up for the unintended consequences of A by introducing B, and then you'll have to introduce C to manage the unintended consequences of B and so on. The problems you are referring to are direct results from our determination to kill off wild predators.

You know what? Ecosystems work perfectly when they are left alone.

And such is a complete impossibility. Our very existence means that the ecosystem is NOT left alone. The effect of houses and populations are stark.

I really question the point of the OP though. The original supposition: hunters do not love the wild, is utterly irrelevant. I don’t care what hunters think of the wild. I am sure that there are many that do and many that don’t care past the kill they get but in the end it is utterly meaningless what the hunters think. They are allowed to hunt because that is what freedom looks like. The state regulates the action to limit it impact and beyond that, there really is nothing else for them to do. What are you trying to get at? Do you want all hunting stopped? What is it that you are trying to say here other than you don’t like hunting?

 

[9thIDdoc]

Are you a strict vegan?

I mean strict...no fish, nothing that contains or uses animal byproducts.

If not, you hunt by proxy.

You should be ashamed to hunt by proxy then proclaim that you would be ashamed to admit it.

Don't try to pretend hunters do it for food. It's about the joy of the hunt. The food is icing on the cake. When the supermarkets close down and there's no other way to obtain food, then maybe you'd have an argument that hunters do it out of necessity to feed themselves. Until then, it's disingenuous to say so.

Untrue. Food is one of several important reasons to hunt. Hunters for the Hungry is a nationwide organization through which hunters donate venison to help feed needy people. This is just from my state of Tennessee:

Another Record Year for Hunters for the Hungry PDF Print E-mail

70 Tons of Venison Will Provide Half Million Meals
Tennessee Wildlife Federation Program Will Provide a Half a Million Meals in 2013

Food banks and soup kitchens across the state continue to cite increasing need and decreasing donations. The lean, healthy, safe protein provided by the state’s Hunters for the Hungry program is often the only meat available. Thankfully, officials from the Tennessee Wildlife Federation (TWF) say that hunters continue to be willing to help address hunger, in spite of the recession.

“In the midst of the economic downturn, it’s incredibly rewarding to be able to say we’ve grown this program each of the last five years,” said Matt Simcox, TWF’s Hunters for the Hungry coordinator. “Programs in other states have not been as successful, and it goes back to that Volunteer spirit—Tennesseans are willing to help their neighbors.”

The program posted growth of 8.3 percent over the 2012 numbers, collecting a total of 136,162 pounds of donated venison. Over the life of the program, hunters have donated nearly a million pounds of lean, healthy meat—more than 3.7 million meals!

Wonder how many people PETA feeds.

 

[G.T.]

There ARE too many deer where I live. It isn't safe to drive. And here it was put to a referendum how to manage this over population. The choice was either euthanasia or hunting. I voted for hunting because a lot of people here need the food. Meat doesn't grow on the super market shelf in a plastic container. There is no difference in breeding tame animals or wild ones for food. People still have to eat and forcing a family to buy expensive beef and other meat when they can have venison, rabbit, squirrel, raccoon, etc. etc. for free is ludicrous.

I refer you to post #42.

As for the population size, well that merely confirms that managed ecosystems don't work. You're constantly trying to make up for the unintended consequences of A by introducing B, and then you'll have to introduce C to manage the unintended consequences of B and so on. The problems you are referring to are direct results from our determination to kill off wild predators.

You know what? Ecosystems work perfectly when they are left alone.

Humans are a part of the ecosystem, and if a Lion's den was invaded by a lesser strength species, the Lion would run it off or kill it.

Us doing the same is perfectly natural, and we are not introducing any new letters to the equation - we are inside of the original equation. Just because we are smarter does not mean "don't use your brain and technology to become a better predator."

Any animal would, if given the choice.

Now - is it for sport? Somewhat, for sure. Undeniable. But it must be natural for humans to consider hunting sport so again, the ecosystem is functioning naturally.



And to hunters in the south - I hear you're slacking on the wild hog populations. You better get that under control. Heard it's up to 2 million in Texas.

 

[dilloduck]

What's more valuable to you: 150 humans killed and tens of thousand injured, or some deer?

Both and neither. I do not place humans above or below animals. You're asking the wrong question though. You should be asking why predators have been culled to drastically that prey animal populations have ballooned to such high numbers.

Possibly because larger predators prey on humans too.

 

[9thIDdoc]

What's more valuable to you: 150 humans killed and tens of thousand injured, or some deer?

Both and neither. I do not place humans above or below animals. You're asking the wrong question though. You should be asking why predators have been culled to drastically that prey animal populations have ballooned to such high numbers.

Some predators may prey on humans. People tend to object to that. Others may prey on livestock and pets. Human predation is no less natural than wolf or bear and humans are as much a part of the ecosystem as any other animal and better able to discriminate between helpful and harmful.

 

[Sunshine]

There ARE too many deer where I live. It isn't safe to drive. And here it was put to a referendum how to manage this over population. The choice was either euthanasia or hunting. I voted for hunting because a lot of people here need the food. Meat doesn't grow on the super market shelf in a plastic container. There is no difference in breeding tame animals or wild ones for food. People still have to eat and forcing a family to buy expensive beef and other meat when they can have venison, rabbit, squirrel, raccoon, etc. etc. for free is ludicrous.

I refer you to post #42.

As for the population size, well that merely confirms that managed ecosystems don't work. You're constantly trying to make up for the unintended consequences of A by introducing B, and then you'll have to introduce C to manage the unintended consequences of B and so on. The problems you are referring to are direct results from our determination to kill off wild predators.

You know what? Ecosystems work perfectly when they are left alone.

A lot of people here simply don't have the money to buy super market beef. Meat is meat. Those freezers full of venison help sustain many families here. You know nothing about this area. Many here would have starved during the Great Depression had it not been for the abundance of wildlife. It is really disheartening when someone like you cares nothing for poor people and would deprive them of their best source of protein. Well, daveman and I have set straight another one who thought he should be running this state..

 

[Sunshine]

Cars and deer can be a lethal combination. An increase in urban sprawl and more roads being built through wildlife habitats have displaced deer from their natural habitat, leading to a rise in deer-vehicle collisions, according to the Insurance Information Institute (I.I.I)

Deer migration and mating season generally runs from October through December, and causes a dramatic increase in the movement of the deer population. As a result, more deer-vehicle collisions occur in this period than at any other time of year, so drivers need to be especially vigilant.

An estimated 1.23 million deer-vehicle collisions occurred in the U.S. between July 1, 2011 and June 30, 2012, costing more than $4 billion in vehicle damage, according to State Farm, the nation’s leading auto insurer.

Damage caused by an accident with deer or other animals is covered under the optional comprehensive portion (not the collision portion) of an automobile insurance policy. Comprehensive auto insurance includes coverage for: fire, theft, vandalism or malicious damage, riot, flood, earthquake or explosion, hail, windstorm, falling or flying objects, damage due to contact with a bird or animal and sometimes, depending on the policy, windshield damage.
Car and Deer Collisions Cause 200 Deaths, Cost $4 Billion a Year

There is a balance.

My insurance company, USAA, doesn't even require a police report. Just call an agent and tell him a *%#$@!! deer ran out in front of you.

I hit two in 2011. Did a total of $7,000 in damages to my Town & Country. One more and they'll total it. Hell, if a headlight burns out, they'll total it.

Praise God that no one was hurt in the collisions.

Dave, don't you just love how they tell us all about where we live!

Where I live I never drive over 40 MPH because of the deer. I recall one day when I was working there were so many out one morning that I was 45 minutes late. No idea why there were so many more out that day than any other.

Also, what the don't know about is the heavy fogs we have here. The rivers and river bottoms create many a foggy morning. The deer do not move in the fog. If they are standing in the road, they can't see because of the fog and they are just there. So, they can't see you, you can't see them, and bye bye deer, car, and maybe even you and your passengers.

As to predators, we still have bobcats where I live. I can hear them roar at night. Foxes out here keep the rabbit population down to nil. I've seen one rabbit since moving here in 2007. In TN, I couldn't even plant flowers because they rabbits would eat them.

 

[FA_Q2]

There ARE too many deer where I live. It isn't safe to drive. And here it was put to a referendum how to manage this over population. The choice was either euthanasia or hunting. I voted for hunting because a lot of people here need the food. Meat doesn't grow on the super market shelf in a plastic container. There is no difference in breeding tame animals or wild ones for food. People still have to eat and forcing a family to buy expensive beef and other meat when they can have venison, rabbit, squirrel, raccoon, etc. etc. for free is ludicrous.

I refer you to post #42.

As for the population size, well that merely confirms that managed ecosystems don't work. You're constantly trying to make up for the unintended consequences of A by introducing B, and then you'll have to introduce C to manage the unintended consequences of B and so on. The problems you are referring to are direct results from our determination to kill off wild predators.

You know what? Ecosystems work perfectly when they are left alone.

A lot of people here simply don't have the money to buy super market beef. Meat is meat. Those freezers full of venison help sustain many families here. You know nothing about this area. Many here would have starved during the Great Depression had it not been for the abundance of wildlife.

Hunting – at least in its modern form – is FAR more expensive than supermarket beef so I find that claim rather dubious. Purchasing the license, tags, weapons, ammo and having the meat butchered is not cheap.

I guess you could save on the butcher and do the meat yourself but you are still likely to run up a higher tab than supermarket meet which can be had for very little.

 

[Sunshine]

I refer you to post #42.

As for the population size, well that merely confirms that managed ecosystems don't work. You're constantly trying to make up for the unintended consequences of A by introducing B, and then you'll have to introduce C to manage the unintended consequences of B and so on. The problems you are referring to are direct results from our determination to kill off wild predators.

You know what? Ecosystems work perfectly when they are left alone.

A lot of people here simply don't have the money to buy super market beef. Meat is meat. Those freezers full of venison help sustain many families here. You know nothing about this area. Many here would have starved during the Great Depression had it not been for the abundance of wildlife.

Hunting – at least in its modern form – is FAR more expensive than supermarket beef so I find that claim rather dubious. Purchasing the license, tags, weapons, ammo and having the meat butchered is not cheap.

I guess you could save on the butcher and do the meat yourself but you are still likely to run up a higher tab than supermarket meet which can be had for very little.

No it isn't. Not here. All it takes is 1 bullet to drop a deer. People already own the gear and don't have to buy from year to year. Same with freezers. Butcher processing is about $50. Licensing is nominal:

For purchase over-the-counter or online for 2013 season:
•Resident Any-Season White-tailed Deer permit (white-tailed deer buck, doe or fawn) – $32.50 for general residents; $17.50 for landowner/tenants; $17.50 for youth 15 and younger. Resident Any-season White-tailed Deer permits are valid statewide in any season, provided legal equipment is used for that season. Available July 30 - Dec. 30
•Resident Archery Either-species/Either-sex Deer permit (white-tailed or mule deer buck, doe or fawn) – $32.50 for general residents; $17.50 for landowner/tenants; $17.50 for youth 15 and younger. Resident Archery Either-species/Either-sex Deer permits are valid statewide with archery equipment only during archery season. Available July 30 - Dec. 30
•Resident Muzzleloader Either-species/Either-sex Deer permit (white-tailed or mule deer buck, doe or fawn) – $32.50 for general residents; $17.50 for landowner/tenants; $17.50 for youth 15 and younger. Resident Muzzleloader Either-species/Either-sex Deer permits are valid either in the east unit (3, 4, 5, 7, 16) or the west unit (1, 2, 17, 18) during the early muzzleloader season and the regular firearm season using muzzleloading equipment only. Available July 30 - Dec. 30
•Hunt-Own-Land Deer Permit — $17.50 resident landowner, $17.50 all tenants. Available to individuals who qualify as residents landowners, including family members living with the landowner or tenant. Permit valid for any white-tailed or mule deer only on land owned or operated by landowner or tenant during muzzleloader-only, archery, and firearm seasons using equipment legal for that season. Available July 30 - Dec. 30

Deer / Applications and Fees / Hunting / KDWPT - KDWPT

I pay $15.00 for one beef roast at the grocery. For the cost of 4 or 5 grocery meals, many people here feed their families for months.

Some people do process their own. But I know what a pain in the butt it is because when I was a girl my mother and brother processed one in our kitchen. That was a long day, but we had good meat for a long time.

You really don't know anything about this state or the people in it. People here don't like to take 'charity.' For every one person who is on food stamps there are 10 more who hunt wild game, grow their own vegetables and can them. My late husband wasn't a hunter, but we did the garden thing and I rarely had to buy anything in the way of vegetables that went on our table. It is a lot of hard work, but people here don't mind working hard.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

What's more valuable to you: 150 humans killed and tens of thousand injured, or some deer?

Both and neither. I do not place humans above or below animals. You're asking the wrong question though. You should be asking why predators have been culled to drastically that prey animal populations have ballooned to such high numbers.

Some predators may prey on humans. People tend to object to that. Others may prey on livestock and pets. Human predation is no less natural than wolf or bear and humans are as much a part of the ecosystem as any other animal and better able to discriminate between helpful and harmful.

Predators in nature take the old and infirm. Many human predators want something to brag about and take the youngest, biggest, etc.

 

[Sunshine]

Both and neither. I do not place humans above or below animals. You're asking the wrong question though. You should be asking why predators have been culled to drastically that prey animal populations have ballooned to such high numbers.

Some predators may prey on humans. People tend to object to that. Others may prey on livestock and pets. Human predation is no less natural than wolf or bear and humans are as much a part of the ecosystem as any other animal and better able to discriminate between helpful and harmful.

Predators in nature take the old and infirm. Many human predators want something to brag about and take the youngest, biggest, etc.

That is absolutely incorrect. There are laws which mandate how young a game animal can be. Besides, it would be patently stupid to kill a faun. Not enough meat. And besides, what about all those huuuuuuungry chiiiiiildren you are always so worried about? I guess they can eat cake.

 

[hortysir]

A lot of people here simply don't have the money to buy super market beef. Meat is meat. Those freezers full of venison help sustain many families here. You know nothing about this area. Many here would have starved during the Great Depression had it not been for the abundance of wildlife.

Hunting – at least in its modern form – is FAR more expensive than supermarket beef so I find that claim rather dubious. Purchasing the license, tags, weapons, ammo and having the meat butchered is not cheap.

I guess you could save on the butcher and do the meat yourself but you are still likely to run up a higher tab than supermarket meet which can be had for very little.

No it isn't. Not here. All it takes is 1 bullet to drop a deer. People already own the gear and don't have to buy from year to year. Same with freezers. Butcher processing is about $50. Licensing is nominal:

For purchase over-the-counter or online for 2013 season:
•Resident Any-Season White-tailed Deer permit (white-tailed deer buck, doe or fawn) – $32.50 for general residents; $17.50 for landowner/tenants; $17.50 for youth 15 and younger. Resident Any-season White-tailed Deer permits are valid statewide in any season, provided legal equipment is used for that season. Available July 30 - Dec. 30
•Resident Archery Either-species/Either-sex Deer permit (white-tailed or mule deer buck, doe or fawn) – $32.50 for general residents; $17.50 for landowner/tenants; $17.50 for youth 15 and younger. Resident Archery Either-species/Either-sex Deer permits are valid statewide with archery equipment only during archery season. Available July 30 - Dec. 30
•Resident Muzzleloader Either-species/Either-sex Deer permit (white-tailed or mule deer buck, doe or fawn) – $32.50 for general residents; $17.50 for landowner/tenants; $17.50 for youth 15 and younger. Resident Muzzleloader Either-species/Either-sex Deer permits are valid either in the east unit (3, 4, 5, 7, 16) or the west unit (1, 2, 17, 18) during the early muzzleloader season and the regular firearm season using muzzleloading equipment only. Available July 30 - Dec. 30
•Hunt-Own-Land Deer Permit — $17.50 resident landowner, $17.50 all tenants. Available to individuals who qualify as residents landowners, including family members living with the landowner or tenant. Permit valid for any white-tailed or mule deer only on land owned or operated by landowner or tenant during muzzleloader-only, archery, and firearm seasons using equipment legal for that season. Available July 30 - Dec. 30

Deer / Applications and Fees / Hunting / KDWPT - KDWPT

I pay $15.00 for one beef roast at the grocery. For the cost of 4 or 5 grocery meals, many people here feed their families for months.

Some people do process their own. But I know what a pain in the butt it is because when I was a girl my mother and brother processed one in our kitchen. That was a long day, but we had good meat for a long time.

You really don't know anything about this state or the people in it. People here don't like to take 'charity.' For every one person who is on food stamps there are 10 more who hunt wild game, grow their own vegetables and can them. My late husband wasn't a hunter, but we did the garden thing and I rarely had to buy anything in the way of vegetables that went on our table. It is a lot of hard work, but people here don't mind working hard.

Then we have the wonderful ferel hogs

Open season. No license fees.
All the pork you can carry


And I still stand behind my statement that the author of the article linked in the OP fails to support any of his/her claims

 

[daveman]

What's more valuable to you: 150 humans killed and tens of thousand injured, or some deer?

Both and neither. I do not place humans above or below animals. You're asking the wrong question though. You should be asking why predators have been culled to drastically that prey animal populations have ballooned to such high numbers.

Dunno about where you are, but preditors around here are ballooning. Coyotes are everywhere. When I was a kid, I saw one. Total. Now I see roadkill coyotes on the road several times a week.

 

[daveman]

Are you a strict vegan?

I mean strict...no fish, nothing that contains or uses animal byproducts.

If not, you hunt by proxy.

You should be ashamed to hunt by proxy then proclaim that you would be ashamed to admit it.

Don't try to pretend hunters do it for food. It's about the joy of the hunt. The food is icing on the cake. When the supermarkets close down and there's no other way to obtain food, then maybe you'd have an argument that hunters do it out of necessity to feed themselves. Until then, it's disingenuous to say so.

Don't try to pretend you know what's going on in someone else's head.

 

[daveman]

Wonder how many people PETA feeds.

They don't have time. They're too busy killing pets and throwing them in the dumpster.

 

[Sunshine]

Hunting – at least in its modern form – is FAR more expensive than supermarket beef so I find that claim rather dubious. Purchasing the license, tags, weapons, ammo and having the meat butchered is not cheap.

I guess you could save on the butcher and do the meat yourself but you are still likely to run up a higher tab than supermarket meet which can be had for very little.

No it isn't. Not here. All it takes is 1 bullet to drop a deer. People already own the gear and don't have to buy from year to year. Same with freezers. Butcher processing is about $50. Licensing is nominal:

For purchase over-the-counter or online for 2013 season:
•Resident Any-Season White-tailed Deer permit (white-tailed deer buck, doe or fawn) – $32.50 for general residents; $17.50 for landowner/tenants; $17.50 for youth 15 and younger. Resident Any-season White-tailed Deer permits are valid statewide in any season, provided legal equipment is used for that season. Available July 30 - Dec. 30
•Resident Archery Either-species/Either-sex Deer permit (white-tailed or mule deer buck, doe or fawn) – $32.50 for general residents; $17.50 for landowner/tenants; $17.50 for youth 15 and younger. Resident Archery Either-species/Either-sex Deer permits are valid statewide with archery equipment only during archery season. Available July 30 - Dec. 30
•Resident Muzzleloader Either-species/Either-sex Deer permit (white-tailed or mule deer buck, doe or fawn) – $32.50 for general residents; $17.50 for landowner/tenants; $17.50 for youth 15 and younger. Resident Muzzleloader Either-species/Either-sex Deer permits are valid either in the east unit (3, 4, 5, 7, 16) or the west unit (1, 2, 17, 18) during the early muzzleloader season and the regular firearm season using muzzleloading equipment only. Available July 30 - Dec. 30
•Hunt-Own-Land Deer Permit — $17.50 resident landowner, $17.50 all tenants. Available to individuals who qualify as residents landowners, including family members living with the landowner or tenant. Permit valid for any white-tailed or mule deer only on land owned or operated by landowner or tenant during muzzleloader-only, archery, and firearm seasons using equipment legal for that season. Available July 30 - Dec. 30

Deer / Applications and Fees / Hunting / KDWPT - KDWPT

I pay $15.00 for one beef roast at the grocery. For the cost of 4 or 5 grocery meals, many people here feed their families for months.

Some people do process their own. But I know what a pain in the butt it is because when I was a girl my mother and brother processed one in our kitchen. That was a long day, but we had good meat for a long time.

You really don't know anything about this state or the people in it. People here don't like to take 'charity.' For every one person who is on food stamps there are 10 more who hunt wild game, grow their own vegetables and can them. My late husband wasn't a hunter, but we did the garden thing and I rarely had to buy anything in the way of vegetables that went on our table. It is a lot of hard work, but people here don't mind working hard.

Then we have the wonderful ferel hogs

Open season. No license fees.
All the pork you can carry


And I still stand behind my statement that the author of the article linked in the OP fails to support any of his/her claims

I think we have a few as well. I just have not been privileged to see one. Not sure I would like wild hog. I can always tell when I have bought ham from an old boar and I think it is too strong. And, I am most disappointed that we have people who would deprive our KY children of delicious nutritious game. IMO, it is immoral to euthanize wild game which is abundant and which can be processed and eaten. You should see the herds of wild turkeys we have here. If I ever have my camera with me I'll try to get a pic for you.

 

[Staidhup]

What's the premise? States will authorize clear cutting in order to make money on hunting licenses? Has anyone ever heard of a more preposterous theory? If the radical left is so concerned about wildlife they should consider the impact of windmill technology on migratory birds including eagles.

Well stated, but then again your writing in response to some PETA fool that hasn't a clue about what they are typing. Excluding fisheries, game populations exceeding food supply crash. As for migratory bird populations, if food availability will sustain a population of 100 and you have 120, all will die. Logged and burned over area's do expand forage area's, this fact has been validated across the country with increased Deer, Elk, and Bear population growth. At the same time predator populations increase in accordance to increases in game populations. What has been noted is that with this increase in game abundance predator populations that are not controlled continue to expand their territory and key on domestic food sources to address their needs.