How Germany could have won the second world war

[gipper]

Or he realized that the USSR was the country in a position to really do something about it.

Stalin BEGGED the West to open a second front, which really wasn't done until the middle of 1944. Up until that point, most of the fighting was done between the Red Army and the Wehrmacht.

Means nothing Joe, as it relates to my post. You have a propensity to post irrelevant shit.

FDR loved Uncle Joe. Communism did not scare FDR. He loved it so much that he filled his administration with Commies.

"FDR loved Uncle Joe" you know why? koba had mentality of Georgian thieves in law, very attractive for "friendship" . + USA wanted British empire down. but you have a point here FDR administration was badly infected with commies

FDR loved Uncle Joe

He loved that the Soviets did all the fighting and dying while we waited for the “right time” for us to invade

He loved that eighty percent of the German divisions were dedicated to fighting the Soviets

He loved that the Soviets had the Germans on the ropes by the time we executed D Day

He loved that we got the best territory after the war was over

Yes he was an imperialist, which you ignorantly admire.

FDR loved Stalin so much that he agreed to imprison half of Europe behind the Iron Curtain. Leading to decades of Cold War, which we were very lucky not to have destroyed the world.

FDR had no choice on who got Eastern Europe
It was occupied by the Red Army and Stalin was not about to give it up. He had already given millions of lives for that territory

Forcing him out would have cost hundreds of thousands of American lives

Silly as usual. Had we not entered the war and not given Stalin unlimited war material, he and Hitler likely fight to a stalemate. Thus saving lots of American lives.

FDR, like most tyrants, loved war.

 

[gipper]

Hitler started the war before the military was ready, and properly supplied. Then he mistakenly sided with the Japanese, and declared war on the U.S. Then he attacked Russia! Absolutely moronic.

You don’t have the time line correct.

He invaded Russia FIRST. Then, allied with Japan.

He never wanted war with the US, France, or Limeys.

 

[danielpalos]

an army group lozenge formation instead of a battalion square formation.

 

[rightwinger]

Hitler started the war before the military was ready, and properly supplied. Then he mistakenly sided with the Japanese, and declared war on the U.S. Then he attacked Russia! Absolutely moronic.

He was a genius up until he invaded Russia

 

[rightwinger]

Hitler started the war before the military was ready, and properly supplied. Then he mistakenly sided with the Japanese, and declared war on the U.S. Then he attacked Russia! Absolutely moronic.

You don’t have the time line correct.

He invaded Russia FIRST. Then, allied with Japan.

He never wanted war with the US, France, or Limeys.

He declared war on the US, invaded France and bombed England
Seems to show intent

 

[percysunshine]

Do you like historical "what ifs?" Here's mine.

Hitler took his eye off the ultimate prize, conquering the Soviet Union. Hitler needlessly and detrimentally went to war with Britain.

Upon taking France, Hitler should have disarmed the French (as they did), dismantled the Maginot Line and then announced that it was unilaterally withdrawing from France and state that they never wanted war with the allies and that their territorial claims in Poland were just. The French would have retained their navy (as they did anyway) and their colonies. I'm confident that the French would have readily accepted such generous terms from the Germans.

Hitler would have refrained from invading Denmark, Norway and north Africa while also refraining from any attacks against the U.K. Politically speaking, Churchill would have had virtually nill support for engaging in war against the Germans considering that the French were out of the war and at peace with Germany and considering that the Germans were not taking any aggressive actions against the U.K.

Hitler also would have needed to NOT declare war on the U.S., as he was apparently bound by agreement with Japan to do.

Had Hitler done these things, Germany would not have been at war with the western allies. He would not have expended and wasted massive resources engaging in needless wars in the "Battle of Britain" or in north Africa nor in occupying and fortifying France.

There would have been no British and American bombers bombing Germany's infrastructure. It's quite possible that American aid to the Soviets would never have happened or that the support would have been significantly less.

Hitler could have had the one-front war that he always wanted and have gone to war with the Soviets without having one arm tied behind his back, so to speak.

I will also add that Hitler's desire to actually take Stalingrad was completely unnecessary and counterproductive. He didn't need to take that city. They could have taken the oil fields in the Caucasus oil fields.

One glaring omission was Hitler's genocide of the Jews. Obviously, this would have been problematic for Germany in the long-term as the western allies, sooner or later, were going to learn of what was happening and would have responded with war. Hitler could have delayed his war against Jewish people in order to focus on winning the war. Thereafter, he could have advocated for the state of Israel and then worked on a program to humanely send European Jews to the newly created state.

Hitler would have needed to take Leningrad and then fortify western Russia and the Ukraine in order to be able to retain his conquests. The Germans were never going to be able to take and keep Moscow or Stalingrad. The Germans simply could not won the battle of attrition with the Soviets over the long-term.

Here is what "winning" the war would have looked like for Germany.

1) Defeating the allied armies in France, disarming the French and then making peace with the allies and, of course, avoiding war with the U.S.

2) Seizing Leningrad, the Ukraine and the Caucasus oil fields and being able to hold those territories.

3) Avoiding genocide of the Jews by, instead, exporting Germany's Jews to Palestine or a newly created "Israel".

Still, the Soviets would not have taken this lying down and the idea that the Germans could have, in the long-term, been able to retain control of their territorial conquests in the east seems unlikely.

Thoughts?

Plausible. 100 army divisions and 3 million troops which could have been used elsewhere.

 

[harmonica]

Mostly, I agree

Germany could have had total victory on one front but not both.

that's still a stretch--many ifs

 

[Preacher]

if if if if if if if if if to infinity
no--he could not have won the war

We'll never know for sure. That's why it's fun to speculate.

In my OP, I posit that Hitler needed to avoid war with the U.S. and make peace with the U.K. and France. Hitler may have been able to secure his desired "living space" in the Ukraine for an indefinite amount of time.

Hitler offered peace terms 8 times to England. Churchill refused to even entertain the idea.

We'll never know for sure. That's why it's fun to speculate.

In my OP, I posit that Hitler needed to avoid war with the U.S. and make peace with the U.K. and France. Hitler may have been able to secure his desired "living space" in the Ukraine for an indefinite amount of time.

At that time parts of the US operated an apartheid scheme that Hitler would have drooled over. So he might have picked up some support for a deal.

The Nazis learned a lot about racism from the Democratic Party, but that's probably another thread.

Nazis learned a lot about racism from the Democratic Party, BS... if you were not a jew you were pretty much saved in Germany

https://www.quora.com/Were-there-black-people-in-German-WW2-forces

Over 200k Jews fought for Hitler and the German army

I'm really surprised to know some Jews fought for Germans in WWII!
I knew about "kapo" but I couldn't ever imagine a Jew in the Wehrmacht!

Several were Generals and even some in the SS

Hitler started the war before the military was ready, and properly supplied. Then he mistakenly sided with the Japanese, and declared war on the U.S. Then he attacked Russia! Absolutely moronic.

Hitler didn't start the war,England and France started ww2 by declaring war on Germany.

 

[harmonica]

if if if if if if if if if to infinity
no--he could not have won the war

We'll never know for sure. That's why it's fun to speculate.

In my OP, I posit that Hitler needed to avoid war with the U.S. and make peace with the U.K. and France. Hitler may have been able to secure his desired "living space" in the Ukraine for an indefinite amount of time.

Hitler offered peace terms 8 times to England. Churchill refused to even entertain the idea.

At that time parts of the US operated an apartheid scheme that Hitler would have drooled over. So he might have picked up some support for a deal.

The Nazis learned a lot about racism from the Democratic Party, but that's probably another thread.

Nazis learned a lot about racism from the Democratic Party, BS... if you were not a jew you were pretty much saved in Germany

https://www.quora.com/Were-there-black-people-in-German-WW2-forces

Over 200k Jews fought for Hitler and the German army

I'm really surprised to know some Jews fought for Germans in WWII!
I knew about "kapo" but I couldn't ever imagine a Jew in the Wehrmacht!

Several were Generals and even some in the SS

Hitler started the war before the military was ready, and properly supplied. Then he mistakenly sided with the Japanese, and declared war on the U.S. Then he attacked Russia! Absolutely moronic.

Hitler didn't start the war,England and France started ww2 by declaring war on Germany.

hitler didn't invade Poland??!!

 

[Preacher]

if if if if if if if if if to infinity
no--he could not have won the war

We'll never know for sure. That's why it's fun to speculate.

In my OP, I posit that Hitler needed to avoid war with the U.S. and make peace with the U.K. and France. Hitler may have been able to secure his desired "living space" in the Ukraine for an indefinite amount of time.

Hitler offered peace terms 8 times to England. Churchill refused to even entertain the idea.

The Nazis learned a lot about racism from the Democratic Party, but that's probably another thread.

Nazis learned a lot about racism from the Democratic Party, BS... if you were not a jew you were pretty much saved in Germany

https://www.quora.com/Were-there-black-people-in-German-WW2-forces

Over 200k Jews fought for Hitler and the German army

I'm really surprised to know some Jews fought for Germans in WWII!
I knew about "kapo" but I couldn't ever imagine a Jew in the Wehrmacht!

Several were Generals and even some in the SS

Hitler started the war before the military was ready, and properly supplied. Then he mistakenly sided with the Japanese, and declared war on the U.S. Then he attacked Russia! Absolutely moronic.

Hitler didn't start the war,England and France started ww2 by declaring war on Germany.

hitler didn't invade Poland??!!

Indeed he did to protect German's who were in Poland but that didn't start ww2. Poland was defeated by time England and France DECLARED WAR on Germany. THEY started the war.

 

[harmonica]

We'll never know for sure. That's why it's fun to speculate.

In my OP, I posit that Hitler needed to avoid war with the U.S. and make peace with the U.K. and France. Hitler may have been able to secure his desired "living space" in the Ukraine for an indefinite amount of time.

Hitler offered peace terms 8 times to England. Churchill refused to even entertain the idea.

Nazis learned a lot about racism from the Democratic Party, BS... if you were not a jew you were pretty much saved in Germany

https://www.quora.com/Were-there-black-people-in-German-WW2-forces

Over 200k Jews fought for Hitler and the German army

I'm really surprised to know some Jews fought for Germans in WWII!
I knew about "kapo" but I couldn't ever imagine a Jew in the Wehrmacht!

Several were Generals and even some in the SS

Hitler started the war before the military was ready, and properly supplied. Then he mistakenly sided with the Japanese, and declared war on the U.S. Then he attacked Russia! Absolutely moronic.

Hitler didn't start the war,England and France started ww2 by declaring war on Germany.

hitler didn't invade Poland??!!

Indeed he did to protect German's who were in Poland but that didn't start ww2. Poland was defeated by time England and France DECLARED WAR on Germany. THEY started the war.

in a galaxy far, far, away

 

[Preacher]

Hitler offered peace terms 8 times to England. Churchill refused to even entertain the idea.
Over 200k Jews fought for Hitler and the German army

I'm really surprised to know some Jews fought for Germans in WWII!
I knew about "kapo" but I couldn't ever imagine a Jew in the Wehrmacht!

Several were Generals and even some in the SS

Hitler started the war before the military was ready, and properly supplied. Then he mistakenly sided with the Japanese, and declared war on the U.S. Then he attacked Russia! Absolutely moronic.

Hitler didn't start the war,England and France started ww2 by declaring war on Germany.

hitler didn't invade Poland??!!

Indeed he did to protect German's who were in Poland but that didn't start ww2. Poland was defeated by time England and France DECLARED WAR on Germany. THEY started the war.

in a galaxy far, far, away

Facts not your strong suite eh? That sucks.

 

[harmonica]

I'm really surprised to know some Jews fought for Germans in WWII!
I knew about "kapo" but I couldn't ever imagine a Jew in the Wehrmacht!

Several were Generals and even some in the SS

Hitler started the war before the military was ready, and properly supplied. Then he mistakenly sided with the Japanese, and declared war on the U.S. Then he attacked Russia! Absolutely moronic.

Hitler didn't start the war,England and France started ww2 by declaring war on Germany.

hitler didn't invade Poland??!!

Indeed he did to protect German's who were in Poland but that didn't start ww2. Poland was defeated by time England and France DECLARED WAR on Germany. THEY started the war.

in a galaxy far, far, away

Facts not your strong suite eh? That sucks.

sure--hitler was the good guy--I got it now

 

[Litwin]

We'll never know for sure. That's why it's fun to speculate.

In my OP, I posit that Hitler needed to avoid war with the U.S. and make peace with the U.K. and France. Hitler may have been able to secure his desired "living space" in the Ukraine for an indefinite amount of time.

Hitler offered peace terms 8 times to England. Churchill refused to even entertain the idea.

Nazis learned a lot about racism from the Democratic Party, BS... if you were not a jew you were pretty much saved in Germany

https://www.quora.com/Were-there-black-people-in-German-WW2-forces

Over 200k Jews fought for Hitler and the German army

I'm really surprised to know some Jews fought for Germans in WWII!
I knew about "kapo" but I couldn't ever imagine a Jew in the Wehrmacht!

Several were Generals and even some in the SS

Hitler started the war before the military was ready, and properly supplied. Then he mistakenly sided with the Japanese, and declared war on the U.S. Then he attacked Russia! Absolutely moronic.

Hitler didn't start the war,England and France started ww2 by declaring war on Germany.

hitler didn't invade Poland??!!

Indeed he did to protect German's who were in Poland but that didn't start ww2. Poland was defeated by time England and France DECLARED WAR on Germany. THEY started the war.

no ww 2 started Koba (stalin) in 1918-23

 

[Litwin]

We'll never know for sure. That's why it's fun to speculate.

In my OP, I posit that Hitler needed to avoid war with the U.S. and make peace with the U.K. and France. Hitler may have been able to secure his desired "living space" in the Ukraine for an indefinite amount of time.

Hitler offered peace terms 8 times to England. Churchill refused to even entertain the idea.

Nazis learned a lot about racism from the Democratic Party, BS... if you were not a jew you were pretty much saved in Germany

https://www.quora.com/Were-there-black-people-in-German-WW2-forces

Over 200k Jews fought for Hitler and the German army

I'm really surprised to know some Jews fought for Germans in WWII!
I knew about "kapo" but I couldn't ever imagine a Jew in the Wehrmacht!

Several were Generals and even some in the SS

Hitler started the war before the military was ready, and properly supplied. Then he mistakenly sided with the Japanese, and declared war on the U.S. Then he attacked Russia! Absolutely moronic.

Hitler didn't start the war,England and France started ww2 by declaring war on Germany.

hitler didn't invade Poland??!!

Indeed he did to protect German's who were in Poland but that didn't start ww2. Poland was defeated by time England and France DECLARED WAR on Germany. THEY started the war.

no , ww 2 started Koba (stalin) in 1918-23

 

[Preacher]

Several were Generals and even some in the SS

Hitler didn't start the war,England and France started ww2 by declaring war on Germany.

hitler didn't invade Poland??!!

Indeed he did to protect German's who were in Poland but that didn't start ww2. Poland was defeated by time England and France DECLARED WAR on Germany. THEY started the war.

in a galaxy far, far, away

Facts not your strong suite eh? That sucks.

sure--hitler was the good guy--I got it now

Your words not mine. Glad you realize Hitler was a great man. Last great leader the world has known.One day the world will realize he was right.

 

[harmonica]

hitler didn't invade Poland??!!

Indeed he did to protect German's who were in Poland but that didn't start ww2. Poland was defeated by time England and France DECLARED WAR on Germany. THEY started the war.

in a galaxy far, far, away

Facts not your strong suite eh? That sucks.

sure--hitler was the good guy--I got it now

Your words not mine. Glad you realize Hitler was a great man. Last great leader the world has known.One day the world will realize he was right.

he did ok--he just went a little too far

 

[rightwinger]

Mostly, I agree

Germany could have had total victory on one front but not both.

that's still a stretch--many ifs

If Germany had captured France, Netherlands, Belgium and Norway and stopped there....they would have been hard to dislodge

 

[rightwinger]

Means nothing Joe, as it relates to my post. You have a propensity to post irrelevant shit.

FDR loved Uncle Joe. Communism did not scare FDR. He loved it so much that he filled his administration with Commies.

"FDR loved Uncle Joe" you know why? koba had mentality of Georgian thieves in law, very attractive for "friendship" . + USA wanted British empire down. but you have a point here FDR administration was badly infected with commies

FDR loved Uncle Joe

He loved that the Soviets did all the fighting and dying while we waited for the “right time” for us to invade

He loved that eighty percent of the German divisions were dedicated to fighting the Soviets

He loved that the Soviets had the Germans on the ropes by the time we executed D Day

He loved that we got the best territory after the war was over

Yes he was an imperialist, which you ignorantly admire.

FDR loved Stalin so much that he agreed to imprison half of Europe behind the Iron Curtain. Leading to decades of Cold War, which we were very lucky not to have destroyed the world.

FDR had no choice on who got Eastern Europe
It was occupied by the Red Army and Stalin was not about to give it up. He had already given millions of lives for that territory

Forcing him out would have cost hundreds of thousands of American lives

Silly as usual. Had we not entered the war and not given Stalin unlimited war material, he and Hitler likely fight to a stalemate. Thus saving lots of American lives.

FDR, like most tyrants, loved war.

A stalemate leaves Western Europe in German hands. The Soviets did the fighting and dying while we waited years to launch an invasion .....providing supplies to Russia kept us from having to bear the burden

FDR understood war and built a strong alliance
He also turned us into a Superpower

 

[harmonica]

Mostly, I agree

Germany could have had total victory on one front but not both.

that's still a stretch--many ifs

If Germany had captured France, Netherlands, Belgium and Norway and stopped there....they would have been hard to dislodge

so the US is not involved??
even without the US, he's not beating Russia