How Germany could have won the second world war

Discussion in 'History' started by K9Buck, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. K9Buck
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    K9Buck Gold Member

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    Do you like historical "what ifs?" Here's mine.

    Hitler took his eye off the ultimate prize, conquering the Soviet Union. Hitler needlessly and detrimentally went to war with Britain.

    Upon taking France, Hitler should have disarmed the French (as they did), dismantled the Maginot Line and then announced that it was unilaterally withdrawing from France and state that they never wanted war with the allies and that their territorial claims in Poland were just. The French would have retained their navy (as they did anyway) and their colonies. I'm confident that the French would have readily accepted such generous terms from the Germans.

    Hitler would have refrained from invading Denmark, Norway and north Africa while also refraining from any attacks against the U.K. Politically speaking, Churchill would have had virtually nill support for engaging in war against the Germans considering that the French were out of the war and at peace with Germany and considering that the Germans were not taking any aggressive actions against the U.K.

    Hitler also would have needed to NOT declare war on the U.S., as he was apparently bound by agreement with Japan to do.

    Had Hitler done these things, Germany would not have been at war with the western allies. He would not have expended and wasted massive resources engaging in needless wars in the "Battle of Britain" or in north Africa nor in occupying and fortifying France.

    There would have been no British and American bombers bombing Germany's infrastructure. It's quite possible that American aid to the Soviets would never have happened or that the support would have been significantly less.

    Hitler could have had the one-front war that he always wanted and have gone to war with the Soviets without having one arm tied behind his back, so to speak.

    I will also add that Hitler's desire to actually take Stalingrad was completely unnecessary and counterproductive. He didn't need to take that city. They could have taken the oil fields in the Caucasus oil fields.

    One glaring omission was Hitler's genocide of the Jews. Obviously, this would have been problematic for Germany in the long-term as the western allies, sooner or later, were going to learn of what was happening and would have responded with war. Hitler could have delayed his war against Jewish people in order to focus on winning the war. Thereafter, he could have advocated for the state of Israel and then worked on a program to humanely send European Jews to the newly created state.

    Hitler would have needed to take Leningrad and then fortify western Russia and the Ukraine in order to be able to retain his conquests. The Germans were never going to be able to take and keep Moscow or Stalingrad. The Germans simply could not won the battle of attrition with the Soviets over the long-term.

    Here is what "winning" the war would have looked like for Germany.

    1) Defeating the allied armies in France, disarming the French and then making peace with the allies and, of course, avoiding war with the U.S.

    2) Seizing Leningrad, the Ukraine and the Caucasus oil fields and being able to hold those territories.

    3) Avoiding genocide of the Jews by, instead, exporting Germany's Jews to Palestine or a newly created "Israel".

    Still, the Soviets would not have taken this lying down and the idea that the Germans could have, in the long-term, been able to retain control of their territorial conquests in the east seems unlikely.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. gulfman
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    gulfman VIP Member

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    Better yet.If he kept all of his scientists from leaving Germany he would have had the atomic bomb first.The world would have been his.
     
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  3. Fort Fun Indiana
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    Fort Fun Indiana Gold Member

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    Interesting! I do like "what ifs" like this.

    Hitler was far too narcissistic too succeed. The "mistakes" you mentioned, and many more, came right from his narcissism. He also was reactionary and short-sighted in his strategy. He thought he would plunder all the resources of Europe, if needed. And he quickly realized he couldn't plunder them in time. I would say, by 1943, he knew it was all over.

    Could he have held Russia? Maybe, without the Allies pestering him. And no Africa invasion, let's not forget that.

    Regarding one "what if" you raise: Would the western world really have gone to war with a powerful Germany, when word of the Holocaust got out? I'm not so sure they would have. The US and Britain were't exactly stalwarts against anti-semitism themselves. And even today, we sit by as a madman starves, tortures, rapes, and plunders his entire population (North Korea). Would any of us be shocked in the least to hear of mass executions in North Korea? We weren't the last time we heard about it. Not shocked enough to do much about it, anyway. We aren't going to war with a powerful China over some dead North Koreans, and I doubt we would have gone to war over dead Jews in the Third Reich.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  4. K9Buck
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    K9Buck Gold Member

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    Great response.
     
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  5. K9Buck
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    K9Buck Gold Member

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    There is a show on Netflix wherein the U.S. lost the second world war and came under the control of the Nazis, or so I have been told. I believe it's called "The man in the high castle". I've never watched. The idea that Germany was going to "take over the world" was laughable. Without the benefit of hindsight, the Germans probably did about as well as they could have done. They won a staggering victory against the French and British. And then their armies waltzed through Russia, at least until late 1941. They had a HELL of a run, but it wasn't going to last forever, and it didn't.
     
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  6. Litwin
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    Litwin Silver Member

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    i lived in a totalitarian state.i can say that "The man in the high castle". is just a comic based film. it has noting to do with reality
     
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  7. Litwin
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    Litwin Silver Member

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    "Hitler took his eye off the ultimate prize, conquering the Soviet Union. " no it was literally impossible, Hitler " the ultimate prize," was conquering Ukraine. not just my word, T Snyder wrote a book about it
     
  8. Litwin
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    Litwin Silver Member

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    "The Germans were never going to be able to take and keep Moscow or Stalingrad." once Germans took Moscow, USSR ´d collapse its for sure
     
  9. K9Buck
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    K9Buck Gold Member

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    Where did you live.
     
  10. K9Buck
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    K9Buck Gold Member

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    Thanks. Using the word "conquering" was a poor choice. Perhaps "defeated" is more appropriate.
     
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