Homosexual marriage

[Inferno]

Last time I check there was no definition of marriage in the Federal constitution and there was no definition in the Tax Code.

There is none. What there is, is the 14th Amendment that offers equal protection.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I don't think so, RGS. If I live in California, or any state, I can enjoy the deductions that the IRS offers to all married couples. If I were gay, I couldn't. That isn't equal.

It is a Federal issue, outside the confines of the State. The State Constitution does not have to consider that at all. And last I checked the Federal Government can still arrest people in States with decriminalized drug laws and charge them with Federal charges, convict them and haul them off to jail.

Once again, the STATE does not have to consider the fact that the Federal Government will not give same sex couples the same tax benefits at all. In fact nothing the State does can force the Federal Government to give gay couples those benefits.

State laws must be in accord with the federal Constitution. The state does need to consider the Federal Laws. They had to with regard to Civil Rights, Abortion, Interracial marriage and womens sufferage. Those were Federal changes before the states changed. The 14th Amendment to the US Constitution states " nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

You notice it sets the law to the state. Prop 8 deprives me as a lesbian liberty. You just can't do that and ignore the Federal Law. It doesn't work that way.

Law is law. It is never disregarded as you say.

You are going to be very vexed when YOUR definition of supposed lost liberty is simply ignored.

 

[Yukon]

RetiredGAYSgt,

The US Constitution says something about "all men are created equal"...is that right? If it does and homosexuals are not treated equally with repsect to marriage then your Constitution is a fake sham.

 

[Tech_Esq]

RetiredGAYSgt,

The US Constitution says something about "all men are created equal"...is that right? If it does and homosexuals are not treated equally with repsect to marriage then your Constitution is a fake sham.

Here's the complete text of the 14th Amendment:

Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section. 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section. 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section. 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section. 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

I think RGS is probably right on this one. It is doubtful in the extreme that the Supremes will see this as an equal protection issue because gays are not a "protected class" in federal law.

 

[Yukon]

Protected class = the right to discriminate. Why dont you people wake up ???

 

[Tech_Esq]

Protected class = the right to discriminate. Why dont you people wake up ???

Are you TRYING to demonstrate your ignorance of the legal system? A "protected class" far from giving people the right to discriminate against them makes it illegal to discriminate against them. Protected classes currently include sex, race, religion, creed, national origin and disability.

Why don't you try opening a book and reading it instead of propping up your monitor with them?

 

[Yukon]

IDIOT. Being the member of a designated "protected class" means that people within that class are treated better than other people - even if they are not qualified. I say again; IDIOT !

 

[Tech_Esq]

IDIOT. Being the member of a designated "protected class" means that people within that class are treated better than other people - even if they are not qualified. I say again; IDIOT !

Now you're talking like a right wing nut. Don't you know what side you're on? FOOL!

Being a protected class means that a pattern of discrimination against that class has been proven to the satisfaction of the legislature and the President and rules have been enacted to ensure that discrimination against those classes does not occur. You think that's bad, do ya?

 

[Inferno]

RetiredGAYSgt,

The US Constitution says something about "all men are created equal"...is that right? If it does and homosexuals are not treated equally with repsect to marriage then your Constitution is a fake sham.

Here's the complete text of the 14th Amendment:

Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section. 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section. 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section. 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section. 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

I think RGS is probably right on this one. It is doubtful in the extreme that the Supremes will see this as an equal protection issue because gays are not a "protected class" in federal law.

Sorry we are protected under the 14th amendment section one. No state.. etc . There is no legal definition of marriage on the books. We are a class of people that are being discriminated against. Discrimination of any kind it not a good thing. It will be changed.

 

[Inferno]

Protected class = the right to discriminate. Why dont you people wake up ???

Are you TRYING to demonstrate your ignorance of the legal system? A "protected class" far from giving people the right to discriminate against them makes it illegal to discriminate against them. Protected classes currently include sex, race, religion, creed, national origin and disability.

Why don't you try opening a book and reading it instead of propping up your monitor with them?

Rather than criticize someone else. You migh want to read the history of some of the major shifys in law in the US. You will find that gays and lesbians are being discriminated against. It may come down to the term civil union that is accepted in every state. It will also give the same rights to same sex as to married. I am not sure how it will come down. But you can take it to the bamk now. Within 3 years same sex marriage will be legal everywhere in the US. Watch and see. Thanks.

 

[Inferno]

IDIOT. Being the member of a designated "protected class" means that people within that class are treated better than other people - even if they are not qualified. I say again; IDIOT !

Now you're talking like a right wing nut. Don't you know what side you're on? FOOL!

Being a protected class means that a pattern of discrimination against that class has been proven to the satisfaction of the legislature and the President and rules have been enacted to ensure that discrimination against those classes does not occur. You think that's bad, do ya?

It will be. I as a lesbian have been discriminated for more then half a century. You aren't gay or lesbian because you don't see how we have been discriminated. It is the same with civil rights. Whaite people didn't see the discrimination before the civil rights movement of the 50's 60's and 70's.

Women are in the discriminated group as well. We have been and still are discriminated against.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Protected class = the right to discriminate. Why dont you people wake up ???

Are you TRYING to demonstrate your ignorance of the legal system? A "protected class" far from giving people the right to discriminate against them makes it illegal to discriminate against them. Protected classes currently include sex, race, religion, creed, national origin and disability.

Why don't you try opening a book and reading it instead of propping up your monitor with them?

Rather than criticize someone else. You migh want to read the history of some of the major shifys in law in the US. You will find that gays and lesbians are being discriminated against. It may come down to the term civil union that is accepted in every state. It will also give the same rights to same sex as to married. I am not sure how it will come down. But you can take it to the bamk now. Within 3 years same sex marriage will be legal everywhere in the US. Watch and see. Thanks.

You must think I'm not on your side. I'm saying what the law is. In none of my posts on this thread have I stated my opinion. As far as history of major shifts in the law in the US, I could have hardly gotten through law school with doing that. The ESQ on the end of TECH would be because I'm a lawyer.

My opinion, for the record, is that I believe that "marriage" is a religious concept and as such has been recognized by the government. It is not for the government to change that which it does not own. That said, if we wish to change the system so that it is bi-bifurcated like in France, where you get married for government purposes by the government and for religious purposes by a church officiant, that's cool by me. Then, same-sex marriage or civil unions could be done equally for everyone by the government.

Alternatively, if we wanted to create something called a civil union that has all the rights and emoluments as "marriage" that's cool with me too. So mine is more of a theoretical issue than a practical one.

 

[Tech_Esq]

IDIOT. Being the member of a designated "protected class" means that people within that class are treated better than other people - even if they are not qualified. I say again; IDIOT !

Now you're talking like a right wing nut. Don't you know what side you're on? FOOL!

Being a protected class means that a pattern of discrimination against that class has been proven to the satisfaction of the legislature and the President and rules have been enacted to ensure that discrimination against those classes does not occur. You think that's bad, do ya?

It will be. I as a lesbian have been discriminated for more then half a century. You aren't gay or lesbian because you don't see how we have been discriminated. It is the same with civil rights. Whaite people didn't see the discrimination before the civil rights movement of the 50's 60's and 70's.

Women are in the discriminated group as well. We have been and still are discriminated against.

It may be. I'm not saying yes or no. All I was saying in that post is Yukon has his head in his butt.

I'm simply stating the law as it exists today. And, for the record, my mom is a lesbian, so I might have a tad bit of insight too. Yes, women are a "protected" group under the law as I stated above.

 

[Tech_Esq]

RetiredGAYSgt,

The US Constitution says something about "all men are created equal"...is that right? If it does and homosexuals are not treated equally with repsect to marriage then your Constitution is a fake sham.

Here's the complete text of the 14th Amendment:

Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section. 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section. 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section. 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section. 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

I think RGS is probably right on this one. It is doubtful in the extreme that the Supremes will see this as an equal protection issue because gays are not a "protected class" in federal law.

Sorry we are protected under the 14th amendment section one. No state.. etc . There is no legal definition of marriage on the books. We are a class of people that are being discriminated against. Discrimination of any kind it not a good thing. It will be changed.

Sorry, that is what you would like to be the case, not a statement of what the current law is. I am merely stating the current law, nothing more.

 

[Inferno]

Are you TRYING to demonstrate your ignorance of the legal system? A "protected class" far from giving people the right to discriminate against them makes it illegal to discriminate against them. Protected classes currently include sex, race, religion, creed, national origin and disability.

Why don't you try opening a book and reading it instead of propping up your monitor with them?

Rather than criticize someone else. You migh want to read the history of some of the major shifys in law in the US. You will find that gays and lesbians are being discriminated against. It may come down to the term civil union that is accepted in every state. It will also give the same rights to same sex as to married. I am not sure how it will come down. But you can take it to the bamk now. Within 3 years same sex marriage will be legal everywhere in the US. Watch and see. Thanks.

You must think I'm not on your side. I'm saying what the law is. In none of my posts on this thread have I stated my opinion. As far as history of major shifts in the law in the US, I could have hardly gotten through law school with doing that. The ESQ on the end of TECH would be because I'm a lawyer.

My opinion, for the record, is that I believe that "marriage" is a religious concept and as such has been recognized by the government. It is not for the government to change that which it does not own. That said, if we wish to change the system so that it is bi-bifurcated like in France, where you get married for government purposes by the government and for religious purposes by a church officiant, that's cool by me. Then, same-sex marriage or civil unions could be done equally for everyone by the government.

Alternatively, if we wanted to create something called a civil union that has all the rights and emoluments as "marriage" that's cool with me too. So mine is more of a theoretical issue than a practical one.

Sorry if I misunderstood your position. That can happen.

I don't really care what the relationship is called. The word marriage is just a word. It seems that some are very protective of the word. I think that many think that gays and lesbians want to force churches to preform the marriage. That would be just wrong.

I think most gays and lesbians just want to same rights as everyone else. No matter what people say it is not a choice. I did not pick being lesbian anymore that people pick being heterosexual.

 

[KittenKoder]

No, I just think that Homosexuality is a cancer on our society. It confuses young impressionable children also.This scurge of Homosexuality must be banned permanently.!!

Should they (homosexuals) be exterminated ? How far would you go?

We must remove them from the society, by what ever means available.
Homosexuality is abnormal, biologically backwards.

So are black people ....


... see how that works?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Are you TRYING to demonstrate your ignorance of the legal system? A "protected class" far from giving people the right to discriminate against them makes it illegal to discriminate against them. Protected classes currently include sex, race, religion, creed, national origin and disability.

Why don't you try opening a book and reading it instead of propping up your monitor with them?

Rather than criticize someone else. You migh want to read the history of some of the major shifys in law in the US. You will find that gays and lesbians are being discriminated against. It may come down to the term civil union that is accepted in every state. It will also give the same rights to same sex as to married. I am not sure how it will come down. But you can take it to the bamk now. Within 3 years same sex marriage will be legal everywhere in the US. Watch and see. Thanks.

You must think I'm not on your side. I'm saying what the law is. In none of my posts on this thread have I stated my opinion. As far as history of major shifts in the law in the US, I could have hardly gotten through law school with doing that. The ESQ on the end of TECH would be because I'm a lawyer.

My opinion, for the record, is that I believe that "marriage" is a religious concept and as such has been recognized by the government. It is not for the government to change that which it does not own. That said, if we wish to change the system so that it is bi-bifurcated like in France, where you get married for government purposes by the government and for religious purposes by a church officiant, that's cool by me. Then, same-sex marriage or civil unions could be done equally for everyone by the government.

Alternatively, if we wanted to create something called a civil union that has all the rights and emoluments as "marriage" that's cool with me too. So mine is more of a theoretical issue than a practical one.

If one were to do jst a little research on MY opinion, one would discover that I advocate that the Government get out of the Marriage business all together. That all unions be called Civil Unions across the entire country and that Marriage be given to the religious.

There is no conflict with civil Unions. No one can get their panties in an uproar because 2 people of the same sex get together in a civil union.

Until the Government does that though, Marriage remains what it IS. A Union between a man and a woman.

 

[Yukon]

Now you're talking like a right wing nut. Don't you know what side you're on? FOOL!

Being a protected class means that a pattern of discrimination against that class has been proven to the satisfaction of the legislature and the President and rules have been enacted to ensure that discrimination against those classes does not occur. You think that's bad, do ya?

I see. I'm the right-wing nut because I think that all people should be treated equally and that means letting the homos get married. You see, the homos dont bother me, I dont care what they or anyone else does in their bedroom. To quote the great Pierre Elliot Trudeau " The government has no business in the bedrooms of the nation ". I believe that and furthermore I dont believe the right-wing, religious zealots, or the old men on the Supreme Court have any right in a person's bedroom.

You people talk about your rights and your freedoms yet to will not allow people to marry because you dont like who they will marry. Oh yeah, Im the right-wing nut job.

 

[007]

I did not pick being lesbian anymore that people pick being heterosexual.

That may be true. But you're a human being, with a brain and the ability to determine right from wrong... use it.

 

[GHook93]

My views is it should be allowed and protected in every state of the union! Prohibiting it goes against the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment. The legal contract argument is BS. Not too long ago US States had laws that prohibited interracial couples from getting marriage licenses (Racial Integrity Act)! Loving v VA held these laws violate the equal protection clause. There were a lot of excuse tossed around for having such law, but when it came down to it there was only one motivating reason - bigotry! Homophobia is the only real reason behind the anti-gay marriage stance.

Always the argument that 2 men (or women) can't have babies. What about an infertile hetrosexual couple!? They can't have babies either, should their marriage license be stripped?

The BS argument I hear from Rush and Hannity is that it hurts the scantity of marriage! Come the fuck on! Can someone give me another bullshit answer! Why the hell would my marriage be effected by gay marriage? Its not and its a red herring argument, that only another homophobe would accept!

Sean Penn is a douche-bag, but he is right on one thing. 20 yrs from now America is going to look back at laws like CA Proposition 8 and view it in the same light we now look back at the Racial Integrity Act with embarrassment! Our children are going to ask us the same question that we asked our parents, how could such a bigoted law be passed in the US? When I asked my Dad that about segregation! He replied "we were stupid back then." What will be our answer to our children?