Hobby Lobby and the Loss of America's Soul

[Murf76]

No one is forcing Hobby Lobby to hire anybody.
But if they DO hire a person - they don't have the right to shove their religious views upon that person.

how are they SHOVING RELIGIOUS VIEWS on you if you have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE to work there or not...?

seems to me the only one SHOVING is the federal govt. and HObby Lobby is the one without the right to choose....

Employers are the ones who choose their employees. Not visa versa. Telling all your employees that they must adhere to your religious philosophy or "hit the road" is about as unAmerican as it gets.

Abortion/contraception is (and should be) a legal issue - devoid of any religious considerations (when it comes to employment law).

Yeah... because employers just kidnap passersby off the fucking streets and drag them in chains to service their cash registers and whatnot.

Jeez, the shit you people come up with in order to subordinate the religious freedom of individual citizens is just crazy. Your whole, absurd ideology is about hating babies and random fucking... and you wonder why somebody might not want to have their property and cash seized in order to forward your perverted agenda.

 

[WillowTree]

The one where we selectively follow a book of 3000 year old superstitions....

Here's a reality check. Only two people should be involved in a woman's decision to use contraception.

The woman and her doctor.

Not employers, insurance companies, churches or governments.

So why are ya'll involving the employer and the insurance company?

A fairly powerful insurance lobby in the 60's & 70's that successfully created health insurance monopolies revolving around employer provided health care coverage.

If the republicans has signed off on a true public option back in the summer of '09, this thread wouldn't need to exist.

What part of "we cannot afford a public option" do you not understand? We're 16 trillion dollars in debt and 48% of our citizens don't pay any of the share it takes to give them free shit!

 

[Murf76]

So why are ya'll involving the employer and the insurance company?

A fairly powerful insurance lobby in the 60's & 70's that successfully created health insurance monopolies revolving around employer provided health care coverage.

If the republicans has signed off on a true public option back in the summer of '09, this thread wouldn't need to exist.

What part of "we cannot afford a public option" do you not understand? We're 16 trillion dollars in debt and 48% of our citizens don't pay any of the share it takes to give them free shit!

It's backdoor socialist medicine anyway and they fucking know it. Note that they NEVER take the honest route and go for a constitutional amendment. Always subterfuge.

 

[nodoginnafight]

how are they SHOVING RELIGIOUS VIEWS on you if you have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE to work there or not...?

seems to me the only one SHOVING is the federal govt. and HObby Lobby is the one without the right to choose....

Employers are the ones who choose their employees. Not visa versa. Telling all your employees that they must adhere to your religious philosophy or "hit the road" is about as unAmerican as it gets.

Abortion/contraception is (and should be) a legal issue - devoid of any religious considerations (when it comes to employment law).

Yeah... because employers just kidnap passersby off the fucking streets and drag them in chains to service their cash registers and whatnot.

Jeez, the shit you people come up with in order to subordinate the religious freedom of individual citizens is just crazy. Your whole, absurd ideology is about hating babies and random fucking... and you wonder why somebody might not want to have their property and cash seized in order to forward your perverted agenda.

You might want to focus a little more on logic and a lot less on profanity.
THIS person is a Christian who believes Jesus make the most convincing case for the seperation of Church and State ever when he said, "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Give unto God what is God's."

I believe abortion should be against the law - not for religious reasons, but because I believe every human being under the jurisdiction of the United States of America is entitled to protection under our legal system.

But i do NOT believe that claiming a "religious exemption" should shield people from following the same employment laws that every one else follows.

So before you start hurling vulgarities and silly generalizations at people you know nothing about, perhaps you should actually OPEN that Bible and read a bit instead of just thumping it all the time.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

No one is forcing Hobby Lobby to hire anybody.
But if they DO hire a person - they don't have the right to shove their religious views upon that person.

how are they SHOVING RELIGIOUS VIEWS on you if you have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE to work there or not...?

seems to me the only one SHOVING is the federal govt. and HObby Lobby is the one without the right to choose....

Employers are the ones who choose their employees. Not visa versa. Telling all your employees that they must adhere to your religious philosophy or "hit the road" is about as unAmerican as it gets.

Abortion/contraception is (and should be) a legal issue - devoid of any religious considerations (when it comes to employment law).

your mind is muddled......starting your party early...?

1. you FIRST have to apply for a job at the company YOU pick.....then they hire you or not...

2. Nobody is telling employees to "adhere to yourreligious philosophy" or "hit the road".....the company chooses the coverage it offers to you which typically covers some things while leaving out others.....if they leave out contraceptives you can go buy your own if that is what you want....contraceptives are not some sort of "right"....

3. Abortion is legal and you can kill your own baby if you like.....but making other people pay for it is fucking wrong...

 

[Katzndogz]

No one is forcing Hobby Lobby to hire anybody.
But if they DO hire a person - they don't have the right to shove their religious views upon that person.

how are they SHOVING RELIGIOUS VIEWS on you if you have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE to work there or not...?

seems to me the only one SHOVING is the federal govt. and HObby Lobby is the one without the right to choose....

Employers are the ones who choose their employees. Not visa versa. Telling all your employees that they must adhere to your religious philosophy or "hit the road" is about as unAmerican as it gets.

Abortion/contraception is (and should be) a legal issue - devoid of any religious considerations (when it comes to employment law).

Employers do not quite get to choose their employees. Otherwise employers would be free to advertise "Christians only need apply".

Abortion/contraception is not a legal issue. It is a personal issue. There is no cause of action against someone if they choose or choose not to use birth control. As the left likes to point out, it should be a personal decision between a woman and her doctor. It is. Now we are left with the remaining issue, who is going to pay for such contraception. Christians, Jews, Muslims, none of them should be compelled to financially support a practice they find morally abhorrent.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I happen to find ignorance morally abhorrent - yet my tax dollars went to funding some of these idiots' school-time naps. If all you have is personal insults and vulgarities, just let it go.

The idea - I only fund what I agree with - is absurd on it's face.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I happen to find ignorance morally abhorrent - yet my tax dollars went to funding some of these idiots' school-time naps. If all you have is personal insults and vulgarities, just let it go.

The idea - I only fund what I agree with - is absurd on it's face.

what's really absurd is how you lefties manage to trample the Constitution....in the name of 'free' contraceptives....

 

[Glensather]

If the owners of Hobby Lobby want to abstain from abortion - then fine.
They don't have the right to force their religious practices on every one of their employees.
Since when does "religious freedom" include the right to shove your religious views down someone else's throat?

bullcrap....

nobody is forcing you to work at Hobby Lobby....

nobody is stopping you from buying your own contraceptives....

the only one being FORCED to do anything is Hobby Lobby.....forced to pay for your contraceptives and abortion pills...

You're right, nobody is forcing anyone to work at Hobby Lobby.
So what if, not saying it will happen, but what IF everyone who worked at these Hobby Lobby's walked out, and the American people refused to get a job with them unless they backed down?

Would they change their mind then? Or shutter their doors?

 

[nodoginnafight]

If the owners of Hobby Lobby want to abstain from abortion - then fine.
They don't have the right to force their religious practices on every one of their employees.
Since when does "religious freedom" include the right to shove your religious views down someone else's throat?

bullcrap....

nobody is forcing you to work at Hobby Lobby....

nobody is stopping you from buying your own contraceptives....

the only one being FORCED to do anything is Hobby Lobby.....forced to pay for your contraceptives and abortion pills...

You're right, nobody is forcing anyone to work at Hobby Lobby.
So what if, not saying it will happen, but what IF everyone who worked at these Hobby Lobby's walked out, and the American people refused to get a job with them unless they backed down?

Would they change their mind then? Or shutter their doors?

They will have their doors shut for them if they do not adhere to the same laws that apply to everyone else.

And the United States was founded on the principal that no one has the right to shove their religious views down anyone else's throat. Period.
Just stick to the Constitution.

 

[AVG-JOE]

So why are ya'll involving the employer and the insurance company?

A fairly powerful insurance lobby in the 60's & 70's that successfully created health insurance monopolies revolving around employer provided health care coverage.

If the republicans has signed off on a true public option back in the summer of '09, this thread wouldn't exist.

Actually, employer provided health care started during the FDR years as a way to compensate employees whose wages were held down by price controls. The tax code has made this a long term feature of employment. The real answer is to change the tax code so that health insurance is a personal expense decoupled from employment.

True, the 30's & 40's is when employer provided health coverage started - the 60's & 70's is when the insurance lobby decided they were stuck with a limited market of employers, and protected monopolies was a very profitable way to go.

And you're absolutely right that the answer to this thread lay in a complete re-build of the tax code, divorcing payment for health care from our employers. Until then, what's good for secular employers is good for religious employers. Fairness in the market demands it.

 

[AVG-JOE]

So why are ya'll involving the employer and the insurance company?

A fairly powerful insurance lobby in the 60's & 70's that successfully created health insurance monopolies revolving around employer provided health care coverage.

If the republicans has signed off on a true public option back in the summer of '09, this thread wouldn't need to exist.

What part of "we cannot afford a public option" do you not understand? We're 16 trillion dollars in debt and 48% of our citizens don't pay any of the share it takes to give them free shit!

Just let me and every other American Worker who WANTS to buy in to Medicare at a rate based on our age. That move alone would go a long way toward saving Medicare.

'Public Option' does not mean 'free'. It just means that the bureaucracy tasked with tracking premiums paid in and claims paid out is not-for-profit.

 

[JustTheFacts]

The liberal war against religion is in full swing....

Starting Jan 1, 2013 Hobby Lobby will need to come up with $1.3 million PER DAY in IRS excise taxes because they are sticking to their religious principles against Obama and his anti-religion minions....

Currently, Obamacare is ushering in a new definition of "religious liberty."

-----

Take for example the Oklahoma-based companies craft store giant Hobby Lobby and booksellers Mardel Inc. In 2010 Hobby Lobby grossed $2.6 billion in sales, and employed 13,000 people in 455 outlets in 42 states.

Currently, Hobby Lobby is the largest religiously-owned non-Catholic business to have filed a lawsuit against the HHS birth control directive. Yet, despite the fact that they've been founded and run on Christian principles, Oklahoma U.S. District Judge Joe Heaton ruled that Hobby Lobby and Mardel are not religious organizations and therefore subject to the federal birth control dictate.

Because the Christian-owned company maintains that the mandate "violates the religious beliefs for their owners," it's evident that Hobby Lobby must think "religious liberty" is defined in a way other than how it is being defined by liberals at this time.

Hobby Lobby maintains that the "morning-after pill is tantamount to abortion because it can prevent a fertilized egg from becoming implanted in a woman's womb." Therefore, "defy[ing] a federal mandate requiring it to offer employees health coverage that includes access to the morning-after pill" is the company's way of staying true to its core convictions.

-----

Despite facing millions in fines, the noncompliant Hobby Lobby and Mardel Inc. CEO and founder David Green refuses to surrender the companies' religious convictions. Green has said he'd rather abandon the business. A $2.2 billion-a-year company that is willing to close itsdoors rather than compromise its core principles? Now that's impressive.

hobby lobby is a business, not a church and should be given no exemptions.

Now that is not a defense of the underlying law, which I disagree with , but Hobby Lobby should not be exempt.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

There are many preventative measures that must be covered by insurance. Why are you only upset about this one?

Care to quote me saying that?

If you took two seconds to actually think about the words coming out of your brain before you typed them you would have realized that the contraceptive mandate is specifically what this entire thread is about.

And yet this is the only mandate you've expressed unhappiness with.

Hmmmm.. okay, let's try this again in bigger letters.

the contraceptive mandate is specifically what this entire thread is about.

Does that help you at all, you dumb ass troll?

And actually, I said on more than one occasion throughout this thread that the whole law is one big clusterfuck that should have never been passed in the first place.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Nothing - if they don't want me - they don't have to hire me.

Correct. Glad we cleared that up for you.

But just because they hire me - that doesn't mean I have to worship their "God" in the way they demand.

Can you cite a quote from the owners of Hobby Lobby demanding their employees worship their God?

I think it's funny that people lament the lack of "freedom" in this country because one person is not being allowed to force their religious convictions on another.

Who is trying to do that?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

If the owners of Hobby Lobby want to abstain from abortion - then fine.
They don't have the right to force their religious practices on every one of their employees.
Since when does "religious freedom" include the right to shove your religious views down someone else's throat?

Can you cite an instance where Hobby Lobby has forced their employees to practice their religion?

 

[Mustang]

The liberal war against religion is in full swing....

Starting Jan 1, 2013 Hobby Lobby will need to come up with $1.3 million PER DAY in IRS excise taxes because they are sticking to their religious principles against Obama and his anti-religion minions....

Currently, Obamacare is ushering in a new definition of "religious liberty."

-----

Take for example the Oklahoma-based companies craft store giant Hobby Lobby and booksellers Mardel Inc. In 2010 Hobby Lobby grossed $2.6 billion in sales, and employed 13,000 people in 455 outlets in 42 states.

Currently, Hobby Lobby is the largest religiously-owned non-Catholic business to have filed a lawsuit against the HHS birth control directive. Yet, despite the fact that they've been founded and run on Christian principles, Oklahoma U.S. District Judge Joe Heaton ruled that Hobby Lobby and Mardel are not religious organizations and therefore subject to the federal birth control dictate.

Because the Christian-owned company maintains that the mandate "violates the religious beliefs for their owners," it's evident that Hobby Lobby must think "religious liberty" is defined in a way other than how it is being defined by liberals at this time.

Hobby Lobby maintains that the "morning-after pill is tantamount to abortion because it can prevent a fertilized egg from becoming implanted in a woman's womb." Therefore, "defy[ing] a federal mandate requiring it to offer employees health coverage that includes access to the morning-after pill" is the company's way of staying true to its core convictions.

-----

Despite facing millions in fines, the noncompliant Hobby Lobby and Mardel Inc. CEO and founder David Green refuses to surrender the companies' religious convictions. Green has said he'd rather abandon the business. A $2.2 billion-a-year company that is willing to close itsdoors rather than compromise its core principles? Now that's impressive.



Read more: Articles: Hobby Lobby and the Loss of America's Soul

The last I heard, Hobby Lobby is not a church. It's a business.

 

[candycorn]

...people still shop at Hobby Lobby?

Never even heard of them before....Mom & Pop store?

Pretty much a Mom & Pop on Steroids. Think of a Michaels Arts and Crafts ran by your Uncle Louie.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

You're right, nobody is forcing anyone to work at Hobby Lobby.
So what if, not saying it will happen, but what IF everyone who worked at these Hobby Lobby's walked out, and the American people refused to get a job with them unless they backed down?

Would they change their mind then? Or shutter their doors?

Who knows? But that is exactly the way it should be handled if that many people have a problem with it. Let the market work it out.

Of course, today we're a nation of candy ass weaklings who think the government is there to give them something of someone else's they think they deserve simply because they breathe.

 

[Desperado]

This is all about money/business not someones ability to believe in or worship God.
They have enough faith? close up.

They say war on them? It is about their refusal to provide services, etc as outlined in the laws of this country.

Well Call their bluff than.
Give them the exemption on the birth control and abortion. Then see if they still complain about Obamacare.
People should not have to support or pay for items which are prohibited by their religious beliefs.