CDZ GUNS: a challenge to both liberals and conservatives

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Foxfyre, Feb 24, 2018.

?

Of the choices offered to liberals and conservatives in the OP. . .

  1. I don't need to compromise as I can accept all or most.

  2. I can't accept any or most of the choices.

  3. I can accept the options for compromise given the liberals but not the conservatives.

  4. I can accept the options for compromise given the conservatives but not the liberals.

  5. Other that I will explain in my post.

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  1. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    In the wake of yet another tragic school shooting, it is reasonable to have a national discussion on what to do about it. And since the discussion so far is a) more gun control vs b) more guns/protection for the kids, and there seems to be little middle ground, the solution seems to be an unattainable goal for most of American society.

    So the challenge is:

    Would liberals be willing to consider the truth in the following and consider working toward social policy to achieve it?

    --kids need a responsible mom and a dad in the home. Very very few criminals or violent people of any sort come from such homes.

    --kids benefit from a religious faith that teaches love, respect for life and authority, caring from others. Good churches and synagogues aren't producing many criminals.

    --kids need role models that demonstrate some of the best to which we can aspire instead of heaping admiration and fame, making heroes out of, or generating sympathy for those who promote hate, anger, violence, and lawless behavior.

    --kids need to be taught personal responsibility and accountability in which the norm is educating yourself, staying away from illegal substances and activities, meriting a good reputation, learning a trade, getting married before having kids, and contributing to your family, your community, your country. Such people are rarely involved in any kind of bad acts.

    --kids need video games, television programs, and movies that promote real heroism, good triumphing over evil, and rejection of violence except in self defense. When video games have the player having to do bad, even evil things to win, how can that not translate how they relate to their real world? When what passes for entertainment promotes the worst kind of violence, promiscuity, immorality, and sympathy for the bad guys, it is no wonder that children become desensitized to violence or the pain of others and see bad acts as glorious acts. It all is teaching the kids and it is invariable that some of them will be motivated to act on it.


    Maybe correlation isn't causation when it comes to kids being violent, but I sure think we need to look at what we really are teaching and how that contributes to the social problems we have.
    And if the liberals were willing to acknowledge the advantage in all or most of that, would the conservatives/libertarians be willing to consider:

    Reasonable restrictions on civilian guns that are not likely to ever be used for hunting or self protection or recreational target shooting but that are designed to effect maximum damage?

    Reasonable gun registration even at gun shows, so that effective background checks can be run and guns can be denied or confiscated from those who are clearly incompetent to have them or who are a danger to themselves or society?

    Maybe the problem is the people who do bad things with the guns and not the gun themselves, and certainly bad people who do terrible things don't care what laws they break to do them, but can we admit that at least some reasonable restrictions are worthwhile to consider? Could we compromise on some things in order to achieve agreement and cooperation from most everybody to actually fix the problem?
    So that's it. This is the CDZ so keep it reasonably civil if the topic interests you. And the poll is designed so that you can change your choices if you are inspired to change your point of view during the discussion.

    Discuss.








     
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    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  2. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Hmm. No interest? Or no brave souls willing to take a stand? Or just nobody wants to be the first response? Come on. At least some of that strikes a responsive chord with somebody.
     
  3. JGalt
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    JGalt Platinum Member

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    There is no compromise. The Second Amendment and my God-given constitutional right to arm myself is not up for debate. Far more people have died while protecting the rights and freedoms we so graciously have, than those murdered by criminals.

    Infinitely far more people have died in this world because their countries were not blessed with the same rights we have.
     
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  4. Mousterian
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    Mousterian Gold Member

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    Heads-up, Rambo!
    God didn't write the Constitution!
     
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  5. JGalt
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    JGalt Platinum Member

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    He certainly inspired it. God wrote the Bible too, it was only transcribed by the hands of men.
     
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  6. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Okay I can appreciate that but there was no option to give up our right to arm and defend ourselves. There was an option to compromise on some weapons in return for a national effort, including the left, to restore the values that kept the schools one of the safest places on the planet up until the last few decades.
     
  7. Desperado
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    Desperado Gold Member

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    There cannot be any compromise on the Second Amendment. End of story
     
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  8. JGalt
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    Why should there be a compromise for law-abiding citizens to give up "some" of their own personal property? Should we also force others to give up their televisions, radios, and internet because at the time of the writing of the First Amendment, the only means of free speech were hand-operated printing presses?
     
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  9. Manonthestreet
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    Manonthestreet Platinum Member Supporting Member

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    I would accept the Presidents package providing the age for voting, drinking, and being drafted also goes up.
    I would also do a cigarette type lawsuit on big pharma in regards to all the drugs they get kids on.
     
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  10. task0778
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    task0778 Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I don't think the progressive liberals want anything less than no guns at all. Ultimately they don't want compromise, they want total capitulation; same thing with taxes, they always want more. Ask a progressive liberal how much is enough, how much is fair when it comes to taxing the rich and they won't tell you. Raise taxes to a max of 40%, they want 45. Give them 45, they want 50, and on it goes. Same with gun control, they don't want restrictions, they want bans. First on AR-15s, then on any semi-auto weapon, then on all of them. With them it's all take and no give, except maybe in the short term.

    Right now the hue and cry is to ban AR-15s and the like. Fine, except for one small problem, which is that won't stop school shootings. You can buy 2 or 3 9mm handguns that fires 15 bullets each for the cost of one AR-15 and do as much death and damage. What then, ban 'em all, right? It just doesn't fix the problem.
     
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