God... Is Time.

[Boss]

I first considered writing the one-millionth thread on the philosophical discussion of a Creator, then I paused and thought deeper. Is there some way to break through the typical mundane chore of battling our way through various debates on religion and religious dogma to arrive at some point of mutual understanding or consideration? I am not sure if there is, but it's worth thinking about if you are able to hang your preconceptions at the door and be open minded.

The primary weapon of those who disbelieve concepts of God is science. There is no physical evidence to support the idea of God, therefore God is rejected as a possibility. We are all familiar with the argument, so what is the point in yet another thread to debate this? It's really pointless, right? But the thing is, science doesn't draw conclusions of certainty on the matter of God, or anything else, really. Science merely explores probability and possibility. Man creates conclusions of certainty, and at that moment, he also abandons science for faith. Science continues to explore possibility, and if possibility has been determined to not exist, science can do no more.

I am often asked what is my "proof" that God exists. My proof is Time. Time is God and God is Time. Before you jump to the conclusion this is not possible because Time is a physical dimension we can measure with science, consider the following: Our perception of Time is false. We assume Time exists, we can't perceive the present. We can divide Time into past, present and future. We have no perception of the future or if the future will happen at all. We only have evidence of the past, which includes our perceptions of the present. You see-- Every physical sense we have depends on the passing of time to happen. Something may happen in present time but by the time you perceive it, time has passed and it's in the past. The moment of the present is undetectable to mortal human beings. We assume the present time happened because evidence exists in the past that seems to confirm this. If we cannot observe it, does it really exist?

Interesting.
But I disagree.
Time is an illusion that we have created.
Time only exists on this earth. Even the astronauts who are in the space station do not experience time in the same way that we do. Once anything leaves the atmosphere and orbit of this earth........... time ceases to exist.

God is Love. In that sentence, Love is both predicate nominative and predicate adjective. Nominative because Love is the essence of God. Adjective because Love describes God.

Love is everything.
Love is everywhere, or almost everywhere.
Absence of Love is ................Hell.

"Once anything leaves the atmosphere and orbit of this earth.... time ceases to exist."

Wonderful! You've apparently unlocked the key to immortality! We simply travel away from the orbit of earth where time doesn't exist, then we can never age!

Where in there did I say our body doesn't age even if it's outside of time?
I don't know whether it does or not, but pretty sure those people on the space station age.

Pretty sure you're right about that which is why it's extremely goofy to proclaim time doesn't exist!

 

[Boss]

Can time create?

Interesting question. At first I was tempted to say yes... look at the Grand Canyon. But time alone didn't create that. Not to sound like Obama, but time had help from other elements. Then I was tempted to say time is required to create something, but again... is it? Quantum entanglement challenges such a notion.

As we've seen in this thread, the word "time" can be used to mean a variety of things. It's never exclusive to any of those things it's just that we use the word to mean different things in different context. In this particular context, we are discussing the "arrow of time" and the point in time we perceive as "present." Our perception of present is actually not the moment of the present, that already happened and we've experienced the after-effect.

We rely on faith because we can't observe, measure, test or examine the precise moment of 'present' time. All we have to go by is what we perceive after the present, in the past.

Since we are abusing your thread to a degree I rarely see I will post a follow-up.

You stated the Grand Canyon was created, presumably by water and time. I would phrase it as the Grand Canyon was formed over time by water. The nuance is the lack of an intelligent force. To elaborate my question: Can time create creatively?

you make the assumption time, water and physics aren't controlled by an intelligent force.

 

[Hollie]

Can time create?

Interesting question. At first I was tempted to say yes... look at the Grand Canyon. But time alone didn't create that. Not to sound like Obama, but time had help from other elements. Then I was tempted to say time is required to create something, but again... is it? Quantum entanglement challenges such a notion.

As we've seen in this thread, the word "time" can be used to mean a variety of things. It's never exclusive to any of those things it's just that we use the word to mean different things in different context. In this particular context, we are discussing the "arrow of time" and the point in time we perceive as "present." Our perception of present is actually not the moment of the present, that already happened and we've experienced the after-effect.

We rely on faith because we can't observe, measure, test or examine the precise moment of 'present' time. All we have to go by is what we perceive after the present, in the past.

Since we are abusing your thread to a degree I rarely see I will post a follow-up.

You stated the Grand Canyon was created, presumably by water and time. I would phrase it as the Grand Canyon was formed over time by water. The nuance is the lack of an intelligent force. To elaborate my question: Can time create creatively?

you make the assumption time, water and physics aren't controlled by an intelligent force.

There is exactly zero evidence to accept claims that your particular gawds control the natural, rational world.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Genesis suggests a 6,000 year old earth. Is that accurate or not?

you, the Rev. Phelps and a guy from the 1500s named Usscher believe that to be accurate....I do not share your belief that the book of Genesis suggests a 6000 year old earth......given that I have told you this a dozen times, you should be well aware of this......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Similarly, if the Noah fable is not literally true, what does that suggest about the veracity of other biblical tales?

absolutely nothing......

 

[PostmodernProph]

I gave you a specific example of my challenge to the "prophet" in connection with his claim that the genesis fable could be an accurate baseline for the beginning of time.

???.....what claim are you referring to?.......you mean my statement that God created time?.......what "baseline" does that set?......

 

[Hollie]

I gave you a specific example of my challenge to the "prophet" in connection with his claim that the genesis fable could be an accurate baseline for the beginning of time.

???.....what claim are you referring to?.......you mean my statement that God created time?.......what "baseline" does that set?......

The other guy answered on your behalf........................did a better job than you could have............................he understands punctuation and sentence structure.................

 

[RandomVariable]

I gave you a specific example of my challenge to the "prophet" in connection with his claim that the genesis fable could be an accurate baseline for the beginning of time.

???.....what claim are you referring to?.......you mean my statement that God created time?.......what "baseline" does that set?......

The other guy answered on your behalf........................did a better job than you could have............................he understands punctuation and sentence structure.................

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

 

[Hollie]

I gave you a specific example of my challenge to the "prophet" in connection with his claim that the genesis fable could be an accurate baseline for the beginning of time.

???.....what claim are you referring to?.......you mean my statement that God created time?.......what "baseline" does that set?......

The other guy answered on your behalf........................did a better job than you could have............................he understands punctuation and sentence structure.................

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

I gave you a specific example of my challenge to the "prophet" in connection with his claim that the genesis fable could be an accurate baseline for the beginning of time.

???.....what claim are you referring to?.......you mean my statement that God created time?.......what "baseline" does that set?......

The other guy answered on your behalf........................did a better job than you could have............................he understands punctuation and sentence structure.................

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

Lights up slowly. Music softly, and then building.

Striding to the middle of the room.

Stepping upon the SoapBox of Everlasting Clarity.

loud clear voice:

Yes, you are right. I realize what you say is correct. Thank you for helping me understand. I appreciate it.

Stepping off Soapbox.

Purposeful stride to wings, Exuent.

Music down. Lights down, and out.

Curtain.

 

[RandomVariable]

I gave you a specific example of my challenge to the "prophet" in connection with his claim that the genesis fable could be an accurate baseline for the beginning of time.

???.....what claim are you referring to?.......you mean my statement that God created time?.......what "baseline" does that set?......

The other guy answered on your behalf........................did a better job than you could have............................he understands punctuation and sentence structure.................

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

I gave you a specific example of my challenge to the "prophet" in connection with his claim that the genesis fable could be an accurate baseline for the beginning of time.

???.....what claim are you referring to?.......you mean my statement that God created time?.......what "baseline" does that set?......

The other guy answered on your behalf........................did a better job than you could have............................he understands punctuation and sentence structure.................

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

Lights up slowly. Music softly, and then building.

Striding to the middle of the room.

Stepping upon the SoapBox of Everlasting Clarity.

loud clear voice:

Yes, you are right. I realize what you say is correct. Thank you for helping me understand. I appreciate it.

Stepping off Soapbox.

Purposeful stride to wings, Exuent.

Music down. Lights down, and out.

Curtain.

You're in the religious forum preaching to religious people about honesty, why don't you be honest and tell us why you hate religion so much. And no BS, generic reason. Your personal reason for hating religion. An honest answer you might say. Show us how it is done.

 

[Hollie]

I gave you a specific example of my challenge to the "prophet" in connection with his claim that the genesis fable could be an accurate baseline for the beginning of time.

???.....what claim are you referring to?.......you mean my statement that God created time?.......what "baseline" does that set?......

The other guy answered on your behalf........................did a better job than you could have............................he understands punctuation and sentence structure.................

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

I gave you a specific example of my challenge to the "prophet" in connection with his claim that the genesis fable could be an accurate baseline for the beginning of time.

???.....what claim are you referring to?.......you mean my statement that God created time?.......what "baseline" does that set?......

The other guy answered on your behalf........................did a better job than you could have............................he understands punctuation and sentence structure.................

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

Lights up slowly. Music softly, and then building.

Striding to the middle of the room.

Stepping upon the SoapBox of Everlasting Clarity.

loud clear voice:

Yes, you are right. I realize what you say is correct. Thank you for helping me understand. I appreciate it.

Stepping off Soapbox.

Purposeful stride to wings, Exuent.

Music down. Lights down, and out.

Curtain.

You're in the religious forum preaching to religious people about honesty, why don't you be honest and tell us why you hate religion so much. And no BS, generic reason. Your personal reason for hating religion. An honest answer you might say. Show us how it is done.

Your heavy handed proselytizing is not the way to win converts.

I'm here to counsel you if you want to free yourself from fear and superstition. All you have to do is take the first step and an intervention can be arranged.

 

[RandomVariable]

???.....what claim are you referring to?.......you mean my statement that God created time?.......what "baseline" does that set?......

The other guy answered on your behalf........................did a better job than you could have............................he understands punctuation and sentence structure.................

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

???.....what claim are you referring to?.......you mean my statement that God created time?.......what "baseline" does that set?......

The other guy answered on your behalf........................did a better job than you could have............................he understands punctuation and sentence structure.................

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

Lights up slowly. Music softly, and then building.

Striding to the middle of the room.

Stepping upon the SoapBox of Everlasting Clarity.

loud clear voice:

Yes, you are right. I realize what you say is correct. Thank you for helping me understand. I appreciate it.

Stepping off Soapbox.

Purposeful stride to wings, Exuent.

Music down. Lights down, and out.

Curtain.

You're in the religious forum preaching to religious people about honesty, why don't you be honest and tell us why you hate religion so much. And no BS, generic reason. Your personal reason for hating religion. An honest answer you might say. Show us how it is done.

Your heavy handed proselytizing is not the way to win converts.

I'm here to counsel you if you want to free yourself from fear and superstition. All you have to do is take the first step and an intervention can be arranged.

I was raised an atheist. How about you?

 

[Hollie]

The other guy answered on your behalf........................did a better job than you could have............................he understands punctuation and sentence structure.................

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

The other guy answered on your behalf........................did a better job than you could have............................he understands punctuation and sentence structure.................

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

Lights up slowly. Music softly, and then building.

Striding to the middle of the room.

Stepping upon the SoapBox of Everlasting Clarity.

loud clear voice:

Yes, you are right. I realize what you say is correct. Thank you for helping me understand. I appreciate it.

Stepping off Soapbox.

Purposeful stride to wings, Exuent.

Music down. Lights down, and out.

Curtain.

You're in the religious forum preaching to religious people about honesty, why don't you be honest and tell us why you hate religion so much. And no BS, generic reason. Your personal reason for hating religion. An honest answer you might say. Show us how it is done.

Your heavy handed proselytizing is not the way to win converts.

I'm here to counsel you if you want to free yourself from fear and superstition. All you have to do is take the first step and an intervention can be arranged.

I was raised an atheist. How about you?

Yes.


Go on.


And how does that make you feel?

 

[RandomVariable]

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

Lights up slowly. Music softly, and then building.

Striding to the middle of the room.

Stepping upon the SoapBox of Everlasting Clarity.

loud clear voice:

Yes, you are right. I realize what you say is correct. Thank you for helping me understand. I appreciate it.

Stepping off Soapbox.

Purposeful stride to wings, Exuent.

Music down. Lights down, and out.

Curtain.

You're in the religious forum preaching to religious people about honesty, why don't you be honest and tell us why you hate religion so much. And no BS, generic reason. Your personal reason for hating religion. An honest answer you might say. Show us how it is done.

Your heavy handed proselytizing is not the way to win converts.

I'm here to counsel you if you want to free yourself from fear and superstition. All you have to do is take the first step and an intervention can be arranged.

I was raised an atheist. How about you?

Yes.


Go on.


And how does that make you feel?

It gave me a great distrust of religion. I am also a third generation software engineer so being logical and exact is almost in my blood one might say. I only learned about God about this time last year. Only after my parents were divorced after 27 years of marriage did I learn my mother is religious. She now attends Episcopalian church regularly. After the Army I lived with my grandmother for a couple years. Her parents were Jewish but she revolted against her parents and married a 'scream at the Church atheist', where my father gets it from. I don't know how much of her character is from being raised Jewish and how much from being a child of the Great Depression. She was born in 1918 and passed away recently. My wife, to whom I have been married 20 years, is a Shiite Muslim raising in Iran. She is non-practicing but she went to one of the best Islamic girl schools in Tehran. I have spent a lot of time with the in-laws and learn many of the customs, often the hard way. My wife insists I am Jewish so one can imagine how well she likes me devoting my life to God, not her God though. My teenager is a ardent atheist. Since I was not religious I figured in time he would become agnostic as I was from about 10 until a year ago.

Well, that's me in a nutshell. Care to share or is this all about me? I'm feeling very selfish here.

 

[RandomVariable]

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

What I did, Hollie, was fail. I tried to get you to give up this childish hatred of religion just long enough to find God. I do not know what will crack that brick of a head you have, maybe it just can't be done, but I'm OK, Postmodern is OK, you, on the other hand, have a serious problem to deal with. I realize that whether it was your cat, your parents, or your child it is still the same to you, God failed you and you are going to get him back as long as you the ability to post. If you like I can walk you through how it works. I'll bet Postmodern can do the same. Please don't hate God. There is someone somewhere who is wishing you didn't. There are two people right here who wish you didn't. (Three whenever you're ready.)

Lights up slowly. Music softly, and then building.

Striding to the middle of the room.

Stepping upon the SoapBox of Everlasting Clarity.

loud clear voice:

Yes, you are right. I realize what you say is correct. Thank you for helping me understand. I appreciate it.

Stepping off Soapbox.

Purposeful stride to wings, Exuent.

Music down. Lights down, and out.

Curtain.

You're in the religious forum preaching to religious people about honesty, why don't you be honest and tell us why you hate religion so much. And no BS, generic reason. Your personal reason for hating religion. An honest answer you might say. Show us how it is done.

Your heavy handed proselytizing is not the way to win converts.

I'm here to counsel you if you want to free yourself from fear and superstition. All you have to do is take the first step and an intervention can be arranged.

I was raised an atheist. How about you?

Yes.


Go on.


And how does that make you feel?

Oh, speaking of feeling I should probably mention that my younger brother, by one year, committed suicide at the age of 17. Guess he's hell, huh? I am so glad we are having this little chat.

 

[Hollie]

I don't share such personal information on a public messageboard. Sorry.

 

[RandomVariable]

I don't share such personal information on a public messageboard. Sorry.

You know practically nothing more about me now than you did half an hour ago. Welcome to being human. What matters is on the inside.

 

[RandomVariable]

I don't share such personal information on a public messageboard. Sorry.

Being human does have its drawbacks, one of which is needing to get some sleep. Hopefully in the morning you will have a post for me. If you share something that would be nice but what I would really like is a question. You know the one.

 

[Hollie]

I don't share such personal information on a public messageboard. Sorry.

Being human does have its drawbacks, one of which is needing to get some sleep. Hopefully in the morning you will have a post for me. If you share something that would be nice but what I would really like is a question. You know the one.

Sorry. I don't offer personal information. I've been hounded by someone previously to supply my mailing address so they can forward religious literature.

Yeah. That'll happen.

 

[BreezeWood]

I only learned about God about this time last year.

.
really, were you by chance looking at a clock ?

.