God... Is Time.

[Boss]

Can time create?

Interesting question. At first I was tempted to say yes... look at the Grand Canyon. But time alone didn't create that. Not to sound like Obama, but time had help from other elements. Then I was tempted to say time is required to create something, but again... is it? Quantum entanglement challenges such a notion.

As we've seen in this thread, the word "time" can be used to mean a variety of things. It's never exclusive to any of those things it's just that we use the word to mean different things in different context. In this particular context, we are discussing the "arrow of time" and the point in time we perceive as "present." Our perception of present is actually not the moment of the present, that already happened and we've experienced the after-effect.

We rely on faith because we can't observe, measure, test or examine the precise moment of 'present' time. All we have to go by is what we perceive after the present, in the past.

Since we are abusing your thread to a degree I rarely see I will post a follow-up.

You stated the Grand Canyon was created, presumably by water and time. I would phrase it as the Grand Canyon was formed over time by water. The nuance is the lack of an intelligent force. To elaborate my question: Can time create creatively?

A

Can time create?

Interesting question. At first I was tempted to say yes... look at the Grand Canyon. But time alone didn't create that. Not to sound like Obama, but time had help from other elements. Then I was tempted to say time is required to create something, but again... is it? Quantum entanglement challenges such a notion.

As we've seen in this thread, the word "time" can be used to mean a variety of things. It's never exclusive to any of those things it's just that we use the word to mean different things in different context. In this particular context, we are discussing the "arrow of time" and the point in time we perceive as "present." Our perception of present is actually not the moment of the present, that already happened and we've experienced the after-effect.

We rely on faith because we can't observe, measure, test or examine the precise moment of 'present' time. All we have to go by is what we perceive after the present, in the past.

Since we are abusing your thread to a degree I rarely see I will post a follow-up.

You stated the Grand Canyon was created, presumably by water and time. I would phrase it as the Grand Canyon was formed over time by water. The nuance is the lack of an intelligent force. To elaborate my question: Can time create creatively?

you make the assumption time, water and physics aren't controlled by an intelligent force.

There is exactly zero evidence to accept claims that your particular gawds control the natural, rational world.

Really? I see loads of evidence. Science hasn't ruled out God.

The only evidence you have for the reality you exist in is memory of the past. You can't see the present, you have faith in you perception of it.

 

[Hollie]

Can time create?

Interesting question. At first I was tempted to say yes... look at the Grand Canyon. But time alone didn't create that. Not to sound like Obama, but time had help from other elements. Then I was tempted to say time is required to create something, but again... is it? Quantum entanglement challenges such a notion.

As we've seen in this thread, the word "time" can be used to mean a variety of things. It's never exclusive to any of those things it's just that we use the word to mean different things in different context. In this particular context, we are discussing the "arrow of time" and the point in time we perceive as "present." Our perception of present is actually not the moment of the present, that already happened and we've experienced the after-effect.

We rely on faith because we can't observe, measure, test or examine the precise moment of 'present' time. All we have to go by is what we perceive after the present, in the past.

Since we are abusing your thread to a degree I rarely see I will post a follow-up.

You stated the Grand Canyon was created, presumably by water and time. I would phrase it as the Grand Canyon was formed over time by water. The nuance is the lack of an intelligent force. To elaborate my question: Can time create creatively?

A

Can time create?

Interesting question. At first I was tempted to say yes... look at the Grand Canyon. But time alone didn't create that. Not to sound like Obama, but time had help from other elements. Then I was tempted to say time is required to create something, but again... is it? Quantum entanglement challenges such a notion.

As we've seen in this thread, the word "time" can be used to mean a variety of things. It's never exclusive to any of those things it's just that we use the word to mean different things in different context. In this particular context, we are discussing the "arrow of time" and the point in time we perceive as "present." Our perception of present is actually not the moment of the present, that already happened and we've experienced the after-effect.

We rely on faith because we can't observe, measure, test or examine the precise moment of 'present' time. All we have to go by is what we perceive after the present, in the past.

Since we are abusing your thread to a degree I rarely see I will post a follow-up.

You stated the Grand Canyon was created, presumably by water and time. I would phrase it as the Grand Canyon was formed over time by water. The nuance is the lack of an intelligent force. To elaborate my question: Can time create creatively?

you make the assumption time, water and physics aren't controlled by an intelligent force.

There is exactly zero evidence to accept claims that your particular gawds control the natural, rational world.

Really? I see loads of evidence. Science hasn't ruled out God.

The only evidence you have for the reality you exist in is memory of the past. You can't see the present, you have faith in you perception of it.

Of course you do. Like most religionists, you see evidence for the gawds which are a part of your cultural norms. Christians will see Images of a tall, Caucasian looking Hey-Zeus in the most unlikely places while Moslems see evidence for Allah on a piece of toast or written on the side of a fish. A Hindu might have visions of Shiva but not Mary Magdalene.

We even get those flowery assessments that one or more of the gawds exist because of the "perfect order of the universe" as you have described it, unaware that the universe is a very chaotic place.

And no, science hasn't ruled out many gawds as science hasn't ruled out Bigfoot, Leprechauns or that Allah written on the side of a fish might really be a hand written note from Muhammud (swish).

Can you disprove it?

 

[RandomVariable]

I don't share such personal information on a public messageboard. Sorry.

Being human does have its drawbacks, one of which is needing to get some sleep. Hopefully in the morning you will have a post for me. If you share something that would be nice but what I would really like is a question. You know the one.

Sorry. I don't offer personal information. I've been hounded by someone previously to supply my mailing address so they can forward religious literature.

Yeah. That'll happen.

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

 

[Hollie]

I don't share such personal information on a public messageboard. Sorry.

Being human does have its drawbacks, one of which is needing to get some sleep. Hopefully in the morning you will have a post for me. If you share something that would be nice but what I would really like is a question. You know the one.

Sorry. I don't offer personal information. I've been hounded by someone previously to supply my mailing address so they can forward religious literature.

Yeah. That'll happen.

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

 

[Boss]

Interesting question. At first I was tempted to say yes... look at the Grand Canyon. But time alone didn't create that. Not to sound like Obama, but time had help from other elements. Then I was tempted to say time is required to create something, but again... is it? Quantum entanglement challenges such a notion.

As we've seen in this thread, the word "time" can be used to mean a variety of things. It's never exclusive to any of those things it's just that we use the word to mean different things in different context. In this particular context, we are discussing the "arrow of time" and the point in time we perceive as "present." Our perception of present is actually not the moment of the present, that already happened and we've experienced the after-effect.

We rely on faith because we can't observe, measure, test or examine the precise moment of 'present' time. All we have to go by is what we perceive after the present, in the past.

Since we are abusing your thread to a degree I rarely see I will post a follow-up.

You stated the Grand Canyon was created, presumably by water and time. I would phrase it as the Grand Canyon was formed over time by water. The nuance is the lack of an intelligent force. To elaborate my question: Can time create creatively?

A

Interesting question. At first I was tempted to say yes... look at the Grand Canyon. But time alone didn't create that. Not to sound like Obama, but time had help from other elements. Then I was tempted to say time is required to create something, but again... is it? Quantum entanglement challenges such a notion.

As we've seen in this thread, the word "time" can be used to mean a variety of things. It's never exclusive to any of those things it's just that we use the word to mean different things in different context. In this particular context, we are discussing the "arrow of time" and the point in time we perceive as "present." Our perception of present is actually not the moment of the present, that already happened and we've experienced the after-effect.

We rely on faith because we can't observe, measure, test or examine the precise moment of 'present' time. All we have to go by is what we perceive after the present, in the past.

Since we are abusing your thread to a degree I rarely see I will post a follow-up.

You stated the Grand Canyon was created, presumably by water and time. I would phrase it as the Grand Canyon was formed over time by water. The nuance is the lack of an intelligent force. To elaborate my question: Can time create creatively?

you make the assumption time, water and physics aren't controlled by an intelligent force.

There is exactly zero evidence to accept claims that your particular gawds control the natural, rational world.

Really? I see loads of evidence. Science hasn't ruled out God.

The only evidence you have for the reality you exist in is memory of the past. You can't see the present, you have faith in you perception of it.

Of course you do. Like most religionists, you see evidence for the gawds which are a part of your cultural norms. Christians will see Images of a tall, Caucasian looking Hey-Zeus in the most unlikely places while Moslems see evidence for Allah on a piece of toast or written on the side of a fish. A Hindu might have visions of Shiva but not Mary Magdalene.

We even get those flowery assessments that one or more of the gawds exist because of the "perfect order of the universe" as you have described it, unaware that the universe is a very chaotic place.

And no, science hasn't ruled out many gawds as science hasn't ruled out Bigfoot, Leprechauns or that Allah written on the side of a fish might really be a hand written note from Muhammud (swish).

Can you disprove it?

Sorry, but quantum entanglement and the cosmological constant aren't chaotic at all. A present state of time exists and we are unable to observe it directly. We rely on faith that "reality" is as we perceive it to be.

I've repeatedly tried to get it through your bonehead that religion and God are not the same thing. I even began this thread by stating this is not a theological argument. But you will not let go of that bone. Your contempt and hatred for religion is clearly an obstacle for any objectivity you may have otherwise had-- but I don't even think that's your biggest problem. You come from a generation of radical miscreants who don't believe they can possibly be wrong. This causes you to judge people and put them into bigoted little boxes.

Nothing anyone is ever going to say here will change your mind. You make that abundantly clear every day. All you are really here for is to try and shit on someone and degrade their views. You're not trying to make a point, you're trying to make a statement.

 

[RandomVariable]

I don't share such personal information on a public messageboard. Sorry.

Being human does have its drawbacks, one of which is needing to get some sleep. Hopefully in the morning you will have a post for me. If you share something that would be nice but what I would really like is a question. You know the one.

Sorry. I don't offer personal information. I've been hounded by someone previously to supply my mailing address so they can forward religious literature.

Yeah. That'll happen.

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

You keep referring to Postmodern as a YEC although you know full well he is not. You do it just to annoy him. You either harassment because you want to get back at his God for something or you do not like Postmodern because he is religious.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I don't share such personal information on a public messageboard. Sorry.

Being human does have its drawbacks, one of which is needing to get some sleep. Hopefully in the morning you will have a post for me. If you share something that would be nice but what I would really like is a question. You know the one.

Sorry. I don't offer personal information. I've been hounded by someone previously to supply my mailing address so they can forward religious literature.

Yeah. That'll happen.

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

You keep referring to Postmodern as a YEC although you know full well he is not. You do it just to annoy him. You either harassment because you want to get back at his God for something or you do not like Postmodern because he is religious.

I suspect her reason is simpler.....she only has one argument......unless she pretends everyone she is arguing with is saying the same thing she has nothing to say....thus she pretends everyone believes the same thing.......she has even called Boss a YEC.........

 

[Hollie]

I don't share such personal information on a public messageboard. Sorry.

Being human does have its drawbacks, one of which is needing to get some sleep. Hopefully in the morning you will have a post for me. If you share something that would be nice but what I would really like is a question. You know the one.

Sorry. I don't offer personal information. I've been hounded by someone previously to supply my mailing address so they can forward religious literature.

Yeah. That'll happen.

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

You keep referring to Postmodern as a YEC although you know full well he is not. You do it just to annoy him. You either harassment because you want to get back at his God for something or you do not like Postmodern because he is religious.

That's a function of your personal bias. You seem to have taken on that mantle of authority that afflicts the religious wherein the ideology tends to demarcate those in the "in" group and others outside of the group to be treated with disdain and suspicion. As for the self-entitled "prophet", when he states his view of the genesis fale as an accurate rendition of life's development on the planet, yeah, the label of YEC'ist fits, unless you wish to use YEV'ist (Young Earth Revisionist), wherein the bibles are selectively and capriciously edited and revised to conform to personal, tender sensibilities.

 

[RandomVariable]

Being human does have its drawbacks, one of which is needing to get some sleep. Hopefully in the morning you will have a post for me. If you share something that would be nice but what I would really like is a question. You know the one.

Sorry. I don't offer personal information. I've been hounded by someone previously to supply my mailing address so they can forward religious literature.

Yeah. That'll happen.

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

You keep referring to Postmodern as a YEC although you know full well he is not. You do it just to annoy him. You either harassment because you want to get back at his God for something or you do not like Postmodern because he is religious.

I suspect her reason is simpler.....she only has one argument......unless she pretends everyone she is arguing with is saying the same thing she has nothing to say....thus she pretends everyone believes the same thing.......she has even called Boss a YEC.........

You're way too generous, Postmodern. Hollie is smart, can't deny her that. I do hate to see smart people using their intelligence to keep from hearing something they don't want to. She does change up her replies depending what will effectively aggravate the person she is replying to. Most of the time she does not have to be too creative but she can if she chooses. She either hates God for some reason, hates people who believe in God, or she just hates people in general and religious are the easiest to attack. I am guessing the first. It reminds me of when Moses is leading the congregation in the wilderness and the congregation are grumbling at Moses for lack of something, I forget what. Moses goes to the LORD and the LORD says, 'Don't take it personal, Moses. It is me they are grumbling at." I think the LORD sends poisons snakes, and then Moses lifts up the golden snake. I might be mixing up verses there though.

 

[Hollie]

Since we are abusing your thread to a degree I rarely see I will post a follow-up.

You stated the Grand Canyon was created, presumably by water and time. I would phrase it as the Grand Canyon was formed over time by water. The nuance is the lack of an intelligent force. To elaborate my question: Can time create creatively?

A

Since we are abusing your thread to a degree I rarely see I will post a follow-up.

You stated the Grand Canyon was created, presumably by water and time. I would phrase it as the Grand Canyon was formed over time by water. The nuance is the lack of an intelligent force. To elaborate my question: Can time create creatively?

you make the assumption time, water and physics aren't controlled by an intelligent force.

There is exactly zero evidence to accept claims that your particular gawds control the natural, rational world.

Really? I see loads of evidence. Science hasn't ruled out God.

The only evidence you have for the reality you exist in is memory of the past. You can't see the present, you have faith in you perception of it.

Of course you do. Like most religionists, you see evidence for the gawds which are a part of your cultural norms. Christians will see Images of a tall, Caucasian looking Hey-Zeus in the most unlikely places while Moslems see evidence for Allah on a piece of toast or written on the side of a fish. A Hindu might have visions of Shiva but not Mary Magdalene.

We even get those flowery assessments that one or more of the gawds exist because of the "perfect order of the universe" as you have described it, unaware that the universe is a very chaotic place.

And no, science hasn't ruled out many gawds as science hasn't ruled out Bigfoot, Leprechauns or that Allah written on the side of a fish might really be a hand written note from Muhammud (swish).

Can you disprove it?

Sorry, but quantum entanglement and the cosmological constant aren't chaotic at all. A present state of time exists and we are unable to observe it directly. We rely on faith that "reality" is as we perceive it to be.

I've repeatedly tried to get it through your bonehead that religion and God are not the same thing. I even began this thread by stating this is not a theological argument. But you will not let go of that bone. Your contempt and hatred for religion is clearly an obstacle for any objectivity you may have otherwise had-- but I don't even think that's your biggest problem. You come from a generation of radical miscreants who don't believe they can possibly be wrong. This causes you to judge people and put them into bigoted little boxes.

Nothing anyone is ever going to say here will change your mind. You make that abundantly clear every day. All you are really here for is to try and shit on someone and degrade their views. You're not trying to make a point, you're trying to make a statement.

You're obviously incensed that anyone would dare challenge your religious views. You never did respond to the challenges to your "perfectly ordered universe" when it was pointed out to you such dalliances as Shoemaker-Levy, that oops which occurred on this planet 65 million years ago, etc.

The fact is, most of the universe is profoundly and utterly hostile to human / bioligical life. And even in this tiny corner of the universe where chance has conspired to make human life possible, the planet Earth is at best indifferent to human life, and at worst actively hostile.

It is a patently false claim of yours which you selectively cut and paste to prop up your “finely tuned universe". The illusion of perfection is primarily an artifact of scale (and subjective religious dogma). We live in a profoundly violent and chaotic universe, but are spared direct experience with most of that violence and chaos because it occurs on cosmic and geologic time scales, while we exist on a human time scale. This (luckily for us) means most of us expend our lifetimes in the brief moments of calm between supernovae, asteroid impact, and cometary bombardment.

 

[Hollie]

Sorry. I don't offer personal information. I've been hounded by someone previously to supply my mailing address so they can forward religious literature.

Yeah. That'll happen.

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

You keep referring to Postmodern as a YEC although you know full well he is not. You do it just to annoy him. You either harassment because you want to get back at his God for something or you do not like Postmodern because he is religious.

I suspect her reason is simpler.....she only has one argument......unless she pretends everyone she is arguing with is saying the same thing she has nothing to say....thus she pretends everyone believes the same thing.......she has even called Boss a YEC.........

You're way too generous, Postmodern. Hollie is smart, can't deny her that. I do hate to see smart people using their intelligence to keep from hearing something they don't want to. She does change up her replies depending what will effectively aggravate the person she is replying to. Most of the time she does not have to be too creative but she can if she chooses. She either hates God for some reason, hates people who believe in God, or she just hates people in general and religious are the easiest to attack. I am guessing the first. It reminds me of when Moses is leading the congregation in the wilderness and the congregation are grumbling at Moses for lack of something, I forget what. Moses goes to the LORD and the LORD says, 'Don't take it personal, Moses. It is me they are grumbling at." I think the LORD sends poisons snakes, and then Moses lifts up the golden snake. I might be mixing up verses there though.

Don't be concerned with mixing up verses. Just revise, edit and manipulate the ones you like, ignore the rest. Many religionists do exactly that. However, with the three of you hurling your bibles at me, shouldn't you have at least a middling understanding of those bibles?

 

[RandomVariable]

Being human does have its drawbacks, one of which is needing to get some sleep. Hopefully in the morning you will have a post for me. If you share something that would be nice but what I would really like is a question. You know the one.

Sorry. I don't offer personal information. I've been hounded by someone previously to supply my mailing address so they can forward religious literature.

Yeah. That'll happen.

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

You keep referring to Postmodern as a YEC although you know full well he is not. You do it just to annoy him. You either harassment because you want to get back at his God for something or you do not like Postmodern because he is religious.

That's a function of your personal bias. You seem to have taken on that mantle of authority that afflicts the religious wherein the ideology tends to demarcate those in the "in" group and others outside of the group to be treated with disdain and suspicion. As for the self-entitled "prophet", when he states his view of the genesis fale as an accurate rendition of life's development on the planet, yeah, the label of YEC'ist fits, unless you wish to use YEV'ist (Young Earth Revisionist), wherein the bibles are selectively and capriciously edited and revised to conform to personal, tender sensibilities.

No, believing literally the "genesis fable", which I have not personally read Postmodern's take on, does not equal YEC, or YEV. It does not even imply that. To believe the world is 6000 years old one must also take the genealogies as fact and the ages of the individuals as known and a couple other assumptions. Postmodern has stated no such thing and you only use the YEC label on Postmodern because you know you will get a rise out of him.

Yes, I will admit I have taken on the mantle of authority. I gave my background and a little bit about how I to that point. You are welcome to debate me that but you might just learn something you don't want to.

 

[RandomVariable]

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

You keep referring to Postmodern as a YEC although you know full well he is not. You do it just to annoy him. You either harassment because you want to get back at his God for something or you do not like Postmodern because he is religious.

I suspect her reason is simpler.....she only has one argument......unless she pretends everyone she is arguing with is saying the same thing she has nothing to say....thus she pretends everyone believes the same thing.......she has even called Boss a YEC.........

You're way too generous, Postmodern. Hollie is smart, can't deny her that. I do hate to see smart people using their intelligence to keep from hearing something they don't want to. She does change up her replies depending what will effectively aggravate the person she is replying to. Most of the time she does not have to be too creative but she can if she chooses. She either hates God for some reason, hates people who believe in God, or she just hates people in general and religious are the easiest to attack. I am guessing the first. It reminds me of when Moses is leading the congregation in the wilderness and the congregation are grumbling at Moses for lack of something, I forget what. Moses goes to the LORD and the LORD says, 'Don't take it personal, Moses. It is me they are grumbling at." I think the LORD sends poisons snakes, and then Moses lifts up the golden snake. I might be mixing up verses there though.

Don't be concerned with mixing up verses. Just revise, edit and manipulate the ones you like, ignore the rest. Many religionists do exactly that. However, with the three of you hurling your bibles at me, shouldn't you have at least a middling understanding of those bibles?

I was replying to my buddy, Postmodern, so how is that hurling a Bible at you? Learn to read. I have offered many times to hurl a Bible at you and you have yet to accept.

 

[Hollie]

Sorry. I don't offer personal information. I've been hounded by someone previously to supply my mailing address so they can forward religious literature.

Yeah. That'll happen.

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

You keep referring to Postmodern as a YEC although you know full well he is not. You do it just to annoy him. You either harassment because you want to get back at his God for something or you do not like Postmodern because he is religious.

That's a function of your personal bias. You seem to have taken on that mantle of authority that afflicts the religious wherein the ideology tends to demarcate those in the "in" group and others outside of the group to be treated with disdain and suspicion. As for the self-entitled "prophet", when he states his view of the genesis fale as an accurate rendition of life's development on the planet, yeah, the label of YEC'ist fits, unless you wish to use YEV'ist (Young Earth Revisionist), wherein the bibles are selectively and capriciously edited and revised to conform to personal, tender sensibilities.

No, believing literally the "genesis fable", which I have not personally read Postmodern's take on, does not equal YEC, or YEV. It does not even imply that. To believe the world is 6000 years old one must also take the genealogies as fact and the ages of the individuals as known and a couple other assumptions. Postmodern has stated no such thing and you only use the YEC label on Postmodern because you know you will get a rise out of him.

Yes, I will admit I have taken on the mantle of authority. I gave my background and a little bit about how I to that point. You are welcome to debate me that but you might just learn something you don't want to.

I think you will find that the self-entitled " prophet" is about as literalist as they come. Why don't you take the time to have him explain his views to you regarding biblical tales and fables?

I understand you're infuriated that your proselytising has not gone as you hoped but that suggests you need a better argument.
The contention that your particular sectarian version of gawd(s) is real and extant is an excuse to allow yourself the freedom of making unsupported assertions, not an argument. We have no reason to believe your claims of gawd(s) to be true, certainly no evidence for the claim. Most religions have no problem “conceiving” of their respective gawds, up until they reach they point where they have directly contradicted themselves. Only then do they throw up their hands in an intellectual punt and exclaim, “Well, gawds are really beyond our comprehension anyway.”

 

[Boss]

Sorry. I don't offer personal information. I've been hounded by someone previously to supply my mailing address so they can forward religious literature.

Yeah. That'll happen.

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

You keep referring to Postmodern as a YEC although you know full well he is not. You do it just to annoy him. You either harassment because you want to get back at his God for something or you do not like Postmodern because he is religious.

I suspect her reason is simpler.....she only has one argument......unless she pretends everyone she is arguing with is saying the same thing she has nothing to say....thus she pretends everyone believes the same thing.......she has even called Boss a YEC.........

You're way too generous, Postmodern. Hollie is smart, can't deny her that. I do hate to see smart people using their intelligence to keep from hearing something they don't want to. She does change up her replies depending what will effectively aggravate the person she is replying to. Most of the time she does not have to be too creative but she can if she chooses. She either hates God for some reason, hates people who believe in God, or she just hates people in general and religious are the easiest to attack. I am guessing the first. It reminds me of when Moses is leading the congregation in the wilderness and the congregation are grumbling at Moses for lack of something, I forget what. Moses goes to the LORD and the LORD says, 'Don't take it personal, Moses. It is me they are grumbling at." I think the LORD sends poisons snakes, and then Moses lifts up the golden snake. I might be mixing up verses there though.

I totally disagree that Hollie is smart. Based on the very few times she has dared to attempt articulating a scientific point, I seriously doubt she could pass a basic high school physics exam. Her knowledge of science relies on whatever she has been told by other God Haters, and that's all that really matters to her.

I think you are right about her being angry at God. This is the case with most Atheists. I have often said, some Atheists are bigger believers in God than some Christians.

 

[Hollie]

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

You keep referring to Postmodern as a YEC although you know full well he is not. You do it just to annoy him. You either harassment because you want to get back at his God for something or you do not like Postmodern because he is religious.

I suspect her reason is simpler.....she only has one argument......unless she pretends everyone she is arguing with is saying the same thing she has nothing to say....thus she pretends everyone believes the same thing.......she has even called Boss a YEC.........

You're way too generous, Postmodern. Hollie is smart, can't deny her that. I do hate to see smart people using their intelligence to keep from hearing something they don't want to. She does change up her replies depending what will effectively aggravate the person she is replying to. Most of the time she does not have to be too creative but she can if she chooses. She either hates God for some reason, hates people who believe in God, or she just hates people in general and religious are the easiest to attack. I am guessing the first. It reminds me of when Moses is leading the congregation in the wilderness and the congregation are grumbling at Moses for lack of something, I forget what. Moses goes to the LORD and the LORD says, 'Don't take it personal, Moses. It is me they are grumbling at." I think the LORD sends poisons snakes, and then Moses lifts up the golden snake. I might be mixing up verses there though.

I totally disagree that Hollie is smart. Based on the very few times she has dared to attempt articulating a scientific point, I seriously doubt she could pass a basic high school physics exam. Her knowledge of science relies on whatever she has been told by other God Haters, and that's all that really matters to her.

I think you are right about her being angry at God. This is the case with most Atheists. I have often said, some Atheists are bigger believers in God than some Christians.

Good tactic. Avoid addressing my refutation to your "finely tuned universe™" nonsense with the obligatory "you hate my gawds™".

A reasonable person would review the conception of gawds and resolve the contradictions by acknowledging that at least part of that conception must be false. But then again, what part of a 6,000 year old earth, talking serpents and supernaturalism could possibly be false?

 

[Boss]

A

you make the assumption time, water and physics aren't controlled by an intelligent force.

There is exactly zero evidence to accept claims that your particular gawds control the natural, rational world.

Really? I see loads of evidence. Science hasn't ruled out God.

The only evidence you have for the reality you exist in is memory of the past. You can't see the present, you have faith in you perception of it.

Of course you do. Like most religionists, you see evidence for the gawds which are a part of your cultural norms. Christians will see Images of a tall, Caucasian looking Hey-Zeus in the most unlikely places while Moslems see evidence for Allah on a piece of toast or written on the side of a fish. A Hindu might have visions of Shiva but not Mary Magdalene.

We even get those flowery assessments that one or more of the gawds exist because of the "perfect order of the universe" as you have described it, unaware that the universe is a very chaotic place.

And no, science hasn't ruled out many gawds as science hasn't ruled out Bigfoot, Leprechauns or that Allah written on the side of a fish might really be a hand written note from Muhammud (swish).

Can you disprove it?

Sorry, but quantum entanglement and the cosmological constant aren't chaotic at all. A present state of time exists and we are unable to observe it directly. We rely on faith that "reality" is as we perceive it to be.

I've repeatedly tried to get it through your bonehead that religion and God are not the same thing. I even began this thread by stating this is not a theological argument. But you will not let go of that bone. Your contempt and hatred for religion is clearly an obstacle for any objectivity you may have otherwise had-- but I don't even think that's your biggest problem. You come from a generation of radical miscreants who don't believe they can possibly be wrong. This causes you to judge people and put them into bigoted little boxes.

Nothing anyone is ever going to say here will change your mind. You make that abundantly clear every day. All you are really here for is to try and shit on someone and degrade their views. You're not trying to make a point, you're trying to make a statement.

You're obviously incensed that anyone would dare challenge your religious views. You never did respond to the challenges to your "perfectly ordered universe" when it was pointed out to you such dalliances as Shoemaker-Levy, that oops which occurred on this planet 65 million years ago, etc.

The fact is, most of the universe is profoundly and utterly hostile to human / bioligical life. And even in this tiny corner of the universe where chance has conspired to make human life possible, the planet Earth is at best indifferent to human life, and at worst actively hostile.

It is a patently false claim of yours which you selectively cut and paste to prop up your “finely tuned universe". The illusion of perfection is primarily an artifact of scale (and subjective religious dogma). We live in a profoundly violent and chaotic universe, but are spared direct experience with most of that violence and chaos because it occurs on cosmic and geologic time scales, while we exist on a human time scale. This (luckily for us) means most of us expend our lifetimes in the brief moments of calm between supernovae, asteroid impact, and cometary bombardment.

Sorry but you fail again. You are trying here to make chaos the opposite of fine tuned... it's not. Watch a football game... chaos is happening every play... bodies flying all around, crashing into one another with violence, etc. Yet, the game is very much finely-tuned, plays are designed to produce certain results, there are rules amidst the chaos.

 

[RandomVariable]

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

You keep referring to Postmodern as a YEC although you know full well he is not. You do it just to annoy him. You either harassment because you want to get back at his God for something or you do not like Postmodern because he is religious.

I suspect her reason is simpler.....she only has one argument......unless she pretends everyone she is arguing with is saying the same thing she has nothing to say....thus she pretends everyone believes the same thing.......she has even called Boss a YEC.........

You're way too generous, Postmodern. Hollie is smart, can't deny her that. I do hate to see smart people using their intelligence to keep from hearing something they don't want to. She does change up her replies depending what will effectively aggravate the person she is replying to. Most of the time she does not have to be too creative but she can if she chooses. She either hates God for some reason, hates people who believe in God, or she just hates people in general and religious are the easiest to attack. I am guessing the first. It reminds me of when Moses is leading the congregation in the wilderness and the congregation are grumbling at Moses for lack of something, I forget what. Moses goes to the LORD and the LORD says, 'Don't take it personal, Moses. It is me they are grumbling at." I think the LORD sends poisons snakes, and then Moses lifts up the golden snake. I might be mixing up verses there though.

I totally disagree that Hollie is smart. Based on the very few times she has dared to attempt articulating a scientific point, I seriously doubt she could pass a basic high school physics exam. Her knowledge of science relies on whatever she has been told by other God Haters, and that's all that really matters to her.

I think you are right about her being angry at God. This is the case with most Atheists. I have often said, some Atheists are bigger believers in God than some Christians.

Never discredit your adversary's abilities solely on the basis that they are your adversaries.

Atheists can not be angry with God. Agnostics can however, which I think is what you actually said.

 

[Hollie]

There is exactly zero evidence to accept claims that your particular gawds control the natural, rational world.

Really? I see loads of evidence. Science hasn't ruled out God.

The only evidence you have for the reality you exist in is memory of the past. You can't see the present, you have faith in you perception of it.

Of course you do. Like most religionists, you see evidence for the gawds which are a part of your cultural norms. Christians will see Images of a tall, Caucasian looking Hey-Zeus in the most unlikely places while Moslems see evidence for Allah on a piece of toast or written on the side of a fish. A Hindu might have visions of Shiva but not Mary Magdalene.

We even get those flowery assessments that one or more of the gawds exist because of the "perfect order of the universe" as you have described it, unaware that the universe is a very chaotic place.

And no, science hasn't ruled out many gawds as science hasn't ruled out Bigfoot, Leprechauns or that Allah written on the side of a fish might really be a hand written note from Muhammud (swish).

Can you disprove it?

Sorry, but quantum entanglement and the cosmological constant aren't chaotic at all. A present state of time exists and we are unable to observe it directly. We rely on faith that "reality" is as we perceive it to be.

I've repeatedly tried to get it through your bonehead that religion and God are not the same thing. I even began this thread by stating this is not a theological argument. But you will not let go of that bone. Your contempt and hatred for religion is clearly an obstacle for any objectivity you may have otherwise had-- but I don't even think that's your biggest problem. You come from a generation of radical miscreants who don't believe they can possibly be wrong. This causes you to judge people and put them into bigoted little boxes.

Nothing anyone is ever going to say here will change your mind. You make that abundantly clear every day. All you are really here for is to try and shit on someone and degrade their views. You're not trying to make a point, you're trying to make a statement.

You're obviously incensed that anyone would dare challenge your religious views. You never did respond to the challenges to your "perfectly ordered universe" when it was pointed out to you such dalliances as Shoemaker-Levy, that oops which occurred on this planet 65 million years ago, etc.

The fact is, most of the universe is profoundly and utterly hostile to human / bioligical life. And even in this tiny corner of the universe where chance has conspired to make human life possible, the planet Earth is at best indifferent to human life, and at worst actively hostile.

It is a patently false claim of yours which you selectively cut and paste to prop up your “finely tuned universe". The illusion of perfection is primarily an artifact of scale (and subjective religious dogma). We live in a profoundly violent and chaotic universe, but are spared direct experience with most of that violence and chaos because it occurs on cosmic and geologic time scales, while we exist on a human time scale. This (luckily for us) means most of us expend our lifetimes in the brief moments of calm between supernovae, asteroid impact, and cometary bombardment.

Sorry but you fail again. You are trying here to make chaos the opposite of fine tuned... it's not. Watch a football game... chaos is happening every play... bodies flying all around, crashing into one another with violence, etc. Yet, the game is very much finely-tuned, plays are designed to produce certain results, there are rules amidst the chaos.

You should consider trying out for the Olympic Swim Team - the Backstroke.

So tell us about your finely tuned universe™ in view of the chaotic nature of the universe.

Were the gawds just late for work or too consumed with their administrative duties 65 million years ago when the fine tuned universe™ managed that direct hit on earth?

 

[RandomVariable]

I did not ask you for your mailing address. I asked for the reason you are harassing Postmodern. Oh, and, good morning.

I think you will find that no one is harassing the self-entitled "prophet". This is a public message board and there is, or should be, an expectation that posting your views in such a forum will generate opposing views. You or anyone else can make statements insisting that there is a supernatural realm inhabited by supernatural entities. That you may believe these supernatural entities to be extant and they created all of existence, fully formed a mere few thousand years ago is unsupportable. That such tales and fables mimic earlier tales and fables in not accidental. Humanity is evolving away from such mythology. Man's baser instincts are clearly evolving, at least for some of us. We are not as dispassionate as we once were. We are not as superstitious as we once were. We have gone from simplistic tools to seeing very nearly the instant of the expansion of the universe and down into the atom.

Belief in Arks, talking serpents, shrubbery spontaneously erupting into fire, Deities who control natural forces, etc , do not cure disease or grow crops.

You keep referring to Postmodern as a YEC although you know full well he is not. You do it just to annoy him. You either harassment because you want to get back at his God for something or you do not like Postmodern because he is religious.

That's a function of your personal bias. You seem to have taken on that mantle of authority that afflicts the religious wherein the ideology tends to demarcate those in the "in" group and others outside of the group to be treated with disdain and suspicion. As for the self-entitled "prophet", when he states his view of the genesis fale as an accurate rendition of life's development on the planet, yeah, the label of YEC'ist fits, unless you wish to use YEV'ist (Young Earth Revisionist), wherein the bibles are selectively and capriciously edited and revised to conform to personal, tender sensibilities.

No, believing literally the "genesis fable", which I have not personally read Postmodern's take on, does not equal YEC, or YEV. It does not even imply that. To believe the world is 6000 years old one must also take the genealogies as fact and the ages of the individuals as known and a couple other assumptions. Postmodern has stated no such thing and you only use the YEC label on Postmodern because you know you will get a rise out of him.

Yes, I will admit I have taken on the mantle of authority. I gave my background and a little bit about how I to that point. You are welcome to debate me that but you might just learn something you don't want to.

I think you will find that the self-entitled " prophet" is about as literalist as they come. Why don't you take the time to have him explain his views to you regarding biblical tales and fables?

I understand you're infuriated that your proselytising has not gone as you hoped but that suggests you need a better argument.
The contention that your particular sectarian version of gawd(s) is real and extant is an excuse to allow yourself the freedom of making unsupported assertions, not an argument. We have no reason to believe your claims of gawd(s) to be true, certainly no evidence for the claim. Most religions have no problem “conceiving” of their respective gawds, up until they reach they point where they have directly contradicted themselves. Only then do they throw up their hands in an intellectual punt and exclaim, “Well, gawds are really beyond our comprehension anyway.”

Someday I will do just that. I do not make any far-reaching conclusions about anyone who entitles themselves a prophet. The term is actually quite nebulous.

I have one God, my God. I have a religion of one, me. If you read my background I am hardly a Baptised-at-birth individual. I have yet had to intellectually punt. My scripture is the Old Testament of the KJV. I have recently included The Aramaic-English Interlinear Peshitta Old Testament (The Torah) Genesis to Deuteronomy by Glenn David Bauscher. Lulu Publishing. 2013. I am not sure I would call that scripture however, perhaps. I also talk with God which helps on some of the finer points.