God = Allah = Abba = father

[Vidi]

DING! DING! DING! Congratulations !!! You just found the one of themost controversial verse in the Bible!

Why?

Because that verse does not appear in ANY of the Greek documents that the King James Bible was supposedly translated from. NOT ONE before the 1600s that is.

Additionally its not found in the earliest found manuscripts either!

II. It is wanting in the earliest versions, and, indeed, in a large part of the versions of the New Testament which have been made in all former times. It is wanting in both the Syriac versions--one of which was made probably in the first century; in the Coptic, Armenian, Sclavonic, Ehiopic, and Arabic.

http://www.studylight.org/com/bnn/view.cgi?book=1jo&chapter=005

Lol.

Thus, there is no sure evidence of this reading in any Greek manuscript until the 1500s; each such reading was apparently composed after Erasmus’ Greek NT was published in 1516. Indeed, the reading appears in no Greek witness of any kind (either manuscript, patristic, or Greek translation of some other version) until AD 1215 (in a Greek translation of the Acts of the Lateran Council, a work originally written in Latin).

The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8 | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site

In FACT, it completely missing from several other modern translations as well.

take a look at this page:

1 John 5:7 For there are three that testify:

Notice how that particular verse appears in only a few of the Bibles?

It essentially only appears in Greek translation AFTER the 1600's and in some early Latin translations, but in NONE of the earliest biblical manuscripts at all.

Now lets look at the verses to either side of it.
First the King James version:

1 John 5:6

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth

1 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


1 John 5:8

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Now look at another version. Lets us the one at the top of the list the NIV

5:6
This is the one who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
5:7
For there are three that testify:
5:8
the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.



See the difference?

1 John 5:7 having NEVER appeared in the Greek which KJV was translated from was INSERTED into the text by the King James translators. And it completely changes the meaning, doesnt it?

So I have to ask you:

If we are basing our beliefs on a verse that was inserted in by the King James Translators, then how much stock should we take in that particular belief?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

DING! DING! DING! Congratulations !!! You just found the one of themost controversial verse in the Bible!

Why?

Because that verse does not appear in ANY of the Greek documents that the King James Bible was supposedly translated from. NOT ONE.

Lol.

Thus, there is no sure evidence of this reading in any Greek manuscript until the 1500s; each such reading was apparently composed after Erasmus’ Greek NT was published in 1516. Indeed, the reading appears in no Greek witness of any kind (either manuscript, patristic, or Greek translation of some other version) until AD 1215 (in a Greek translation of the Acts of the Lateran Council, a work originally written in Latin).

The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8 | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site

In FACT, it completely missing from several other modern translations as well.

take a look at this page:

1 John 5:7 For there are three that testify:

Notice how that particular verse appears in only a few of the Bibles?

Now lets look at the verses to either side of it.
First the King James version:

1 John 5:6

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth

1 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


1 John 5:8

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Now look at another version. Lets us the one at the top of the list the NIV

5:6
This is the one who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
5:7
For there are three that testify:
5:8
the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.



See the difference?

1 John 5:7 having NEVER appeared in the Greek which KJV was translated from was INSERTED into the text by the King James translators. And it completely changes the meaning, doesnt it?

So I have to ask you:

If we are basing our beliefs on a verse that was inserted in by the King James Translators, then how much stock should we take in that particular belief?

The Jehovah witness try's again. Or should I say the bible student as the witness are refereed as./

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Question: If the words are not genuine, does this affect the doctrine of the Trinity?

Answer: not in the least. Those Christian writers of the 2nd- 4th centuries who compiled from Scripture the true orthodox doctrine of the Trinity (namely, that the one true God exists in three equal persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) did so without any reference to the disputed words. If their biblical proofs were correct and sufficient and based on undisputed passages, and they certainly were, then the doctrine stands unmoved.

A Simple Outline regarding I John 5:7

 

[Vidi]

Question: If the words are not genuine, does this affect the doctrine of the Trinity?

Answer: not in the least. Those Christian writers of the 2nd- 4th centuries who compiled from Scripture the true orthodox doctrine of the Trinity (namely, that the one true God exists in three equal persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) did so without any reference to the disputed words. If their biblical proofs were correct and sufficient and based on undisputed passages, and they certainly were, then the doctrine stands unmoved.

A Simple Outline regarding I John 5:7

Of course it does.

You are arguing that MAN can change the words of God to suit his own belief system.

God specifically warns us against such things:

Revelations 22:18

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

oh and BTW Doug Kutilek is a known KJO ( King James Only ) fringe fundamentalist. hes not really a great source.

EDIT heres more on good old Dougie:

http://www.sovereignword.org/index....-doug-kutileks-anti-preservation-in-psalms-12

 

[Ancient lion]

Muslims and Christians and Jews all worship the god of Abraham do they not?

Not really.

In reality, Muslims worship Muhammad.

The supposed god of Islam is Al-Ilah of the Mesopotamian Parthenon, The moon god Ilah and his daughters Al-Uzza, Al-Lat and Menat.

The great Idol of Islam, the Phallic Stone and Kabba pre-date Islam. When Muhammad destroyed the idols of the Kabba, he skipped one of them, the Phallic or Black Stone. This was the home of the Djin Ilah, the moon god. Muhammad adopted this Djin as the basis of his religion. The symbol of Islam is the sword, because violence is the very heart of Islam, and the crescent moon, the symbol of Ilah who was now Allah.

To this day, all Muslims bow to the idol of Ilah 5 times a day. The greatest quest of a Muslim is the Haaj, the pilgrimage to the idol in Mecca. Muslims will seek to touch or kiss the idol, and claim it gives them power.

The Hebrews called Ilah Ba'al.

This is really a funny post

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Question: If the words are not genuine, does this affect the doctrine of the Trinity?

Answer: not in the least. Those Christian writers of the 2nd- 4th centuries who compiled from Scripture the true orthodox doctrine of the Trinity (namely, that the one true God exists in three equal persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) did so without any reference to the disputed words. If their biblical proofs were correct and sufficient and based on undisputed passages, and they certainly were, then the doctrine stands unmoved.

A Simple Outline regarding I John 5:7

Of course it does.

You are arguing that MAN can change the words of God to suit his own belief system.

God specifically warns us against such things:

Revelations 22:18

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

oh and BTW Doug Kutilek is a known KJO ( King James Only ) fringe fundamentalist. hes not really a great source.

EDIT heres more on good old Dougie:

Answering Doug Kutilek's anti- Preservation in Psalms 12

Nothing you have to say matters all Jehovahs Witness lie. how many times have you read your New world translation?

 

[Vidi]

Question: If the words are not genuine, does this affect the doctrine of the Trinity?

Answer: not in the least. Those Christian writers of the 2nd- 4th centuries who compiled from Scripture the true orthodox doctrine of the Trinity (namely, that the one true God exists in three equal persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) did so without any reference to the disputed words. If their biblical proofs were correct and sufficient and based on undisputed passages, and they certainly were, then the doctrine stands unmoved.

A Simple Outline regarding I John 5:7

Of course it does.

You are arguing that MAN can change the words of God to suit his own belief system.

God specifically warns us against such things:

Revelations 22:18

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

oh and BTW Doug Kutilek is a known KJO ( King James Only ) fringe fundamentalist. hes not really a great source.

EDIT heres more on good old Dougie:

Answering Doug Kutilek's anti- Preservation in Psalms 12

Nothing you have to say matters all Jehovahs Witness lie. how many times have you read your New world translation?

Hey, idiot, Im not a Jehovahs Witness. Get off your bigotry high horse and answer the questions.

either you want to have a discussion or you want to be a troll. The choice is yours. Which are you?

HINT: If you have a strong desire to live under or protect a bridge, you might be an ACTUAL Troll...which is just plain weird.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Of course it does.

You are arguing that MAN can change the words of God to suit his own belief system.

God specifically warns us against such things:

Revelations 22:18

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

oh and BTW Doug Kutilek is a known KJO ( King James Only ) fringe fundamentalist. hes not really a great source.

EDIT heres more on good old Dougie:

Answering Doug Kutilek's anti- Preservation in Psalms 12

Nothing you have to say matters all Jehovahs Witness lie. how many times have you read your New world translation?

Hey, idiot, Im not a Jehovahs Witness. Get off your bigotry high horse and answer the questions.

either you want to have a discussion or you want to be a troll. The choice is yours. Which are you?

HINT: If you have a strong desire to live under or protect a bridge, you might be an ACTUAL Troll...which is just plain weird.

You are arguing against what is written in the Bible no christian will do that only Jehovahs Witness's will do that.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Question: If the words are not genuine, does this affect the doctrine of the Trinity?

Answer: not in the least. Those Christian writers of the 2nd- 4th centuries who compiled from Scripture the true orthodox doctrine of the Trinity (namely, that the one true God exists in three equal persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) did so without any reference to the disputed words. If their biblical proofs were correct and sufficient and based on undisputed passages, and they certainly were, then the doctrine stands unmoved.

A Simple Outline regarding I John 5:7

Of course it does.

You are arguing that MAN can change the words of God to suit his own belief system.

God specifically warns us against such things:

Revelations 22:18

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

oh and BTW Doug Kutilek is a known KJO ( King James Only ) fringe fundamentalist. hes not really a great source.

EDIT heres more on good old Dougie:

Answering Doug Kutilek's anti- Preservation in Psalms 12

After 1800 years if God did not intend for that Verse to be in his book it would not have been written in it.

 

[Vidi]

Question: If the words are not genuine, does this affect the doctrine of the Trinity?

Answer: not in the least. Those Christian writers of the 2nd- 4th centuries who compiled from Scripture the true orthodox doctrine of the Trinity (namely, that the one true God exists in three equal persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) did so without any reference to the disputed words. If their biblical proofs were correct and sufficient and based on undisputed passages, and they certainly were, then the doctrine stands unmoved.

A Simple Outline regarding I John 5:7

Of course it does.

You are arguing that MAN can change the words of God to suit his own belief system.

God specifically warns us against such things:

Revelations 22:18

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

oh and BTW Doug Kutilek is a known KJO ( King James Only ) fringe fundamentalist. hes not really a great source.

EDIT heres more on good old Dougie:

Answering Doug Kutilek's anti- Preservation in Psalms 12

After 1800 years if God did not intend for that Verse to be in his book it would not have been written in it.

Wow. just wow.

sheep, not a shepard

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Of course it does.

You are arguing that MAN can change the words of God to suit his own belief system.

God specifically warns us against such things:

Revelations 22:18

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

oh and BTW Doug Kutilek is a known KJO ( King James Only ) fringe fundamentalist. hes not really a great source.

EDIT heres more on good old Dougie:

Answering Doug Kutilek's anti- Preservation in Psalms 12

After 1800 years if God did not intend for that Verse to be in his book it would not have been written in it.

Wow. just wow.

sheep, not a shepard

You really are clueless, seriously you are. you are unlike any other Christian I have had a discussion with. You are to busy tearing down Gods word. There will be many Christians like you in hell just like I will be, when we meet I will be your special tormentor.

 

[theliq]

When Jesus was ask when is the End Times?

He replied that he didn't know. That only the Father knows.

If Jesus was God as the Christian allege.

Then surely He should have known the answer to this question.

Matthew 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"

Conjecture. He also may have chosen to not say for His own purposes.

Then again, what could a Christian hating muslim tell a Christian about the nature of the Trinity?

First of all I don't hate Christians; and you will never find a post saying that I do.

Although, you have made it very clear that you hate Muslims and Islam.

I was a Christian for many years; taught sunday school, held Bible studies in my home, and even preached in church before I converted to Islam.

So most likely, I know the Bible just a well as you; if not better than you do.

Which is apparently so, because of the number of times I have had to correct you and the other Christians here on Bible issues.

This has been interesting to read,all these posts but in the past and present....Niether the Christians or Muslims have much to crow about........both are violent......some of you need to stop reading the Bible and Koran and read history to see how both sides have interpreted both books and Prophets and God/Allah.

Very dismal History indeed.

 

[theliq]

After 1800 years if God did not intend for that Verse to be in his book it would not have been written in it.

Wow. just wow.

sheep, not a shepard

You really are clueless, seriously you are. you are unlike any other Christian I have had a discussion with. You are to busy tearing down Gods word. There will be many Christians like you in hell just like I will be, when we meet I will be your special tormentor.

Crikey Big WHERE'S THE LOVE AND FORGIVENESS..........steve

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Wow. just wow.

sheep, not a shepard

You really are clueless, seriously you are. you are unlike any other Christian I have had a discussion with. You are to busy tearing down Gods word. There will be many Christians like you in hell just like I will be, when we meet I will be your special tormentor.

Crikey Big WHERE'S THE LOVE AND FORGIVENESS..........steve

I don't claim to be a Christian I have no forgiveness for someone who claims they are.

 

[theliq]

You really are clueless, seriously you are. you are unlike any other Christian I have had a discussion with. You are to busy tearing down Gods word. There will be many Christians like you in hell just like I will be, when we meet I will be your special tormentor.

Crikey Big WHERE'S THE LOVE AND FORGIVENESS..........steve

I don't claim to be a Christian I have no forgiveness for someone who claims they are.

Yeah but you'll never GO TO HELL........we may have our differences but you are a GOOD BLOKE...all said and done...steve

 

[Uncensored2008]

Hey, idiot, Im not a Jehovahs Witness. Get off your bigotry high horse and answer the questions.

Yeah, you follow that cult of the old weird dude who spun out of the JW's. What was his name again?

either you want to have a discussion or you want to be a troll. The choice is yours. Which are you?

HINT: If you have a strong desire to live under or protect a bridge, you might be an ACTUAL Troll...which is just plain weird.

I thought this was about the Muslims?

 

[AmericanFirst]

Conjecture. He also may have chosen to not say for His own purposes.

Then again, what could a Christian hating muslim tell a Christian about the nature of the Trinity?

First of all I don't hate Christians; and you will never find a post saying that I do.

Although, you have made it very clear that you hate Muslims and Islam.

I was a Christian for many years; taught sunday school, held Bible studies in my home, and even preached in church before I converted to Islam.

So most likely, I know the Bible just a well as you; if not better than you do.

Which is apparently so, because of the number of times I have had to correct you and the other Christians here on Bible issues.

This has been interesting to read,all these posts but in the past and present....Niether the Christians or Muslims have much to crow about........both are violent......some of you need to stop reading the Bible and Koran and read history to see how both sides have interpreted both books and Prophets and God/Allah.

Very dismal History indeed.

Yeah, very disheartening to say the least. I am a Christian. We just went over this violent history in the Christianity last night at Bible study. Thing is you cannot judge all Christians or muslims on the actions of some misguided people. Those that slaughter others in the name of religion are liars, they are really doing it for other reasons. The crusades were a power grab and violence against jews and muslims. The spaniards killed for gold. They used religion to excuse their evil.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Crikey Big WHERE'S THE LOVE AND FORGIVENESS..........steve

I don't claim to be a Christian I have no forgiveness for someone who claims they are.

Yeah but you'll never GO TO HELL........we may have our differences but you are a GOOD BLOKE...all said and done...steve

I know I'm going to hell.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Hey, idiot, Im not a Jehovahs Witness. Get off your bigotry high horse and answer the questions.

Yeah, you follow that cult of the old weird dude who spun out of the JW's. What was his name again?

either you want to have a discussion or you want to be a troll. The choice is yours. Which are you?

HINT: If you have a strong desire to live under or protect a bridge, you might be an ACTUAL Troll...which is just plain weird.

I thought this was about the Muslims?

That's exactly it.

 

[theliq]

I don't claim to be a Christian I have no forgiveness for someone who claims they are.

Yeah but you'll never GO TO HELL........we may have our differences but you are a GOOD BLOKE...all said and done...steve

I know I'm going to hell.

O Yeah and how's that.......well you may think it but I don't.......so Stop all this or I'll be calling you a PRICK again. keep well Big..steve