Gaza v Israel: Head Count

[Hossfly]

Greatest purveyor of violence on the planet.
Responsible for the murder, maiming, raping, displacement, and incarceration of millions of innocent Muslims since 1991.
Counts for nothing in your moral calculus.
Why is that?

You're talking about Islamic terrorists, I assume.

 

[georgephillip]

Not exactly...

"Sampling of Deaths >From US Military Interventions & Propping Up Corrupt
Dictators (using the most conservative estimates)

Nicaragua
30,000 dead

Brazil
100,000 dead

Korea
4 million dead

Guatemala
200,000 dead

Honduras
20,000 dead

El Salvador
63,000 dead

Argentina
40,000 dead

Bolivia
10,000 dead

Uruguay
10,000 dead

Ecuador
10,000 dead

Peru
10,000 dead

Iraq
1.3 million dead..."

List of US War Crimes

 

[irosie91]

Not exactly...

"Sampling of Deaths >From US Military Interventions & Propping Up Corrupt
Dictators (using the most conservative estimates)

Nicaragua
30,000 dead

Brazil
100,000 dead

Korea
4 million dead

Guatemala
200,000 dead

Honduras
20,000 dead

El Salvador
63,000 dead

Argentina
40,000 dead

Bolivia
10,000 dead

Uruguay
10,000 dead

Ecuador
10,000 dead

Peru
10,000 dead

Iraq
1.3 million dead..."

List of US War Crimes

Your stats may or may not have much meaning----you are CLEARLY blaming the US simply for being involved in SOME WAY with violence in many countries HOWEVER in sum -----the ENTIRE NUMBER ADDED UP -----does not come close to even one of the MANY MANY genocides inflicted upon people by muslims in the past 50 years -----BIAFRA, UGANDA, SUDAN, EAST PAKISTAN, ----and lesser numbers Kenya, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc etc--_SCORES OF MILLIONS just genocide----not actual civil wars-----or nternational wars----JUST GENOCIDE

 

[freedombecki]

Not exactly...

"Sampling of Deaths >From US Military Interventions & Propping Up Corrupt
Dictators (using the most conservative estimates)

Nicaragua
30,000 dead

Brazil
100,000 dead

Korea
4 million dead

Guatemala
200,000 dead

Honduras
20,000 dead

El Salvador
63,000 dead

Argentina
40,000 dead

Bolivia
10,000 dead

Uruguay
10,000 dead

Ecuador
10,000 dead

Peru
10,000 dead

Iraq
1.3 million dead..."

List of US War Crimes

Iraq's "1.3 million dead" was not an American intervention, but one instituted and carried out by Saddam Hussein. I remember reading in the paper we had decided NOT to help Iraq when they were fighting Iran because Saddam Hussein was using chemical weapons indiscriminately. I repeat, We did not assist Saddam Hussein in fighting with his neighbors, and when he invaded Kuwait and murdered off a thousand of their influential citizens (who were responsible for Kuwait's 99% literacy rate, btw) we went to their defense against Saddam the WOMD killer.

 

[georgephillip]

The CIA helped Saddam's party come to power in 1968:

"On the morning of July 17, 1968, the Iraqi government was over thrown in a bloodless coup led by the Ba'th military group in Iraq..."

"The first order of the new regime was to set up the Revolutionary Command Council (RCC), which had supreme authority in the country. The RCC elected al-Bakr president of the republic and Saddam Hussein vice president. The Ba'th party's sixth national Pan-Arab congress, meeting in Damascus in October 1963, enacted a constitution for the state. The RCC recommended the immediate adoption of a socialist agrarian reform. The party made it a top priority to end the class struggle within the nation."

Ba'th Party Coup in Iraq: 1968

As far as Gulf War I was concerned, there are other explanations for US involvement:

"The real reason for U.S. opposition to Iraqi occupation of Kuwait is not to keep oil prices low, but to keep Washington, Wall Street, and their allies in charge of setting oil prices. We are fighting to maintain and even enlarge one of our few continuing claims to international economic clout: control of oil prices. The Bush administration and the New York Times alike view the Mideast as an extension of Texas.

"It is 'our oil,' not theirs.

"The U.S. oil posture is not a sober defense of countries dependent on oil. It is a greedy offensive that pursues U.S. oil advantage. Most countries, particularly Third World countries, suffer horribly for these policies."

Gulf War Pullout, by Noam Chomsky

 

[MHunterB]

The CIA helped Saddam's party come to power in 1968:

"On the morning of July 17, 1968, the Iraqi government was over thrown in a bloodless coup led by the Ba'th military group in Iraq..."

"The first order of the new regime was to set up the Revolutionary Command Council (RCC), which had supreme authority in the country. The RCC elected al-Bakr president of the republic and Saddam Hussein vice president. The Ba'th party's sixth national Pan-Arab congress, meeting in Damascus in October 1963, enacted a constitution for the state. The RCC recommended the immediate adoption of a socialist agrarian reform. The party made it a top priority to end the class struggle within the nation."

Ba'th Party Coup in Iraq: 1968

Your source there does not mention a word about 'CIA' assistance. What is the source for that 'information'?


As far as Gulf War I was concerned, there are other explanations for US involvement:

"The real reason for U.S. opposition to Iraqi occupation of Kuwait is not to keep oil prices low, but to keep Washington, Wall Street, and their allies in charge of setting oil prices. We are fighting to maintain and even enlarge one of our few continuing claims to international economic clout: control of oil prices. The Bush administration and the New York Times alike view the Mideast as an extension of Texas.

"It is 'our oil,' not theirs.

"The U.S. oil posture is not a sober defense of countries dependent on oil. It is a greedy offensive that pursues U.S. oil advantage. Most countries, particularly Third World countries, suffer horribly for these policies."

Gulf War Pullout, by Noam Chomsky

Chomsky's credentials are in linguistics, whihc has virtually nothing to do with history or political science. There's no point to quoting an opinion piece by someone not in the field of study.

 

[georgephillip]

Chomsky's published extensively on Politics.
Those who question his qualifications usually can't answer the questions he raises.

"Politics
Some of the books are available for viewing online.[1]

(1967) "The Responsibility of Intellectuals"
(1969) Perspectives on Vietnam [microform]
(1969) American Power and the New Mandarins New York: Pantheon. ISBN 978-0-14-021126-9
(1971) At War with Asia. New York: Pantheon. ISBN 978-0-00-632654-0
(1970) Two Essays on Cambodia. ISBN 978-0-9500300-6-7
(1971) Chomsky: Selected Readings' ISBN 978-0-19-437046-2
(1972) Problems of Knowledge and Freedom: The Russell Lectures. New York: Pantheon. ISBN 978-0-394-71815-6
(1972) The Pentagon Papers. Senator Gravel ed. vol. V. Critical Essays. Boston: Beacon Press; includes index to vol. I-IV of the Papers. With Howard Zinn.
(1973) For Reasons of State. New York: Pantheon. ISBN 978-0-00-211242-0
(1973) Counter-Revolutionary Violence – Bloodbaths in Fact & Propaganda (with Edward S. Herman). Andover, MA: Warner Modular. Module no. # 57.
(1974) Peace in the Middle East? Reflections on Justice and Nationhood. New York: Pantheon. ISBN 978-0-394-71248-2
(1976) Intellectuals and the State. ISBN 978-90-293-9671-4
(1978) Human Rights and American Foreign Policy. ISBN 978-0-85124-201-9
(1979) Language and Responsibility. New York: Pantheon. ISBN 978-0-85527-535-8
(1979) The Political Economy of Human Rights, Volume I: The Washington Connection and Third World Fascism (with Edward S. Herman) ISBN 0-85124-248-0 ISBN 0-89608-090-0
(1979) The Political Economy of Human Rights, Volume II: After the Cataclysm: Postwar Indochina and the Reconstruction of Imperial Ideology (with Edward Herman) ISBN 0-85124-272-3 ISBN 978-0896081000
(1982, 2003) Radical Priorities. Montréal: Black Rose, ISBN 0-919619-50-3; Stirling, Scotland: AK Press. Otero, C.P.
(1982) Superpowers in Collision: The Cold War Now (with Jonathan Steele and John Gittings). ISBN 978-0-14-022432-0
(1982) Towards a New Cold War: Essays on the Current Crisis and How We Got There. New York: Pantheon. ISBN 978-0-394-51873-2
(1983, 1999) The Fateful Triangle: The United States, Israel, and the Palestinians. Boston: South End Press. ISBN 978-0-89608-601-2, ISBN 978-0-89608-187-1
(1985) Turning the Tide : U.S. intervention in Central America and the Struggle for Peace. Boston: South End Press. ISBN 978-0-89608-266-3
(1986) Pirates and Emperors: International Terrorism and the Real World. New York: Claremont Research and Publications. ISBN 0-685-17754-8
(1986) The Race to Destruction: Its Rational Basis. ISBN 978-0-85124-517-1
(1987) The Chomsky Reader. Peck, James (ed.). ISBN 0-394-75173-6 ISBN 978-0394751733
(1987) On Power and Ideology: Managua Lectures. Boston: South End Press. ISBN 978-0-89608-289-2
(1987) Turning the Tide: the U.S. and Latin America. ISBN 978-0-89608-267-0
(1988) The Culture of Terrorism. Boston: South End Press. ISBN 978-0-89608-334-9
(1988) Language and Politics. Montréal: Black Rose. ISBN 978-0-921689-34-8
(1988, 2002) Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media. New York: Pantheon.(with Edward Herman) ISBN 0-375-71449-9.
(1989) Necessary Illusions. Boston: South End Press. ISBN 978-0-89608-366-0
(1991) Terrorizing the Neighborhood: American Foreign Policy in the Post-Cold War Era. Stirling, Scotland: AK Press. ISBN 978-0-9627091-2-8
(1992) What Uncle Sam Really Wants. Berkeley: Odonian Press. ISBN 1-878825-01-1.
(1992) Chronicles of Dissent. Monroe, ME: Common Courage Press. ISBN 0-921586-24-8.
(1992) Deterring Democracy. New York: Hill and Wang. ISBN 0-374-52349-5.
(1993) Letters from Lexington: Reflections on Propaganda. Monroe, ME: Common Courage Press.
(1993, 2003) The Prosperous Few and the Restless Many. Berkeley: Odonian Press. * 2003 edition by Pluto Press. ISBN 1-878825-03-8.
(1993) Rethinking Camelot: JFK, the Vietnam War, and U.S. Political Culture. Boston: South End Press. ISBN 978-0-89608-458-2.
(1993) World Order and Its Rules: Variations on Some Themes. West Belfast Economic for Mentation. ISBN 978-0-9521888-2-7
(1993) Year 501: The Conquest Continues. Boston: South End Press. ISBN 1-895431-62-X, ISBN 1-895431-63-8.
(1994) Keeping the Rabble in Line: Interviews with David Barsamian. Monroe, ME: Common Courage Press. ISBN 1-56751-032-9.
(1994) Secrets, Lies, and Democracy. Berkley: Odonian Press. ISBN 1-878825-04-6.
(1994) World Orders, Old and New. New York: Columbia University Press.
(1996) Class Warfare: Interviews with David Barsamian. Monroe, ME: Common Courage Press. ISBN 1-56751-092-2.
(1996,1997) Powers and Prospects: Reflections on Human Nature and the Social Order, Boston: South End Press, ISBN 0-89608-535-X /Perspectives on Power: Reflections on Human Nature and the Social Order, Montréal: Black Rose Press, ISBN 1-55164-048-1.
(1997) Class Warfare: Interviewed by David Barsamian. Vancouver: New Star Books. (collects the Common Courage books, "Keeping the Rabble in Line" and "Class Warfare")
(1997) The Cold War and the University. Co-authored with Ira Katznelson, Richard Lewontin, David Montgomery, Laura Nader, Richard Ohmann, Ray Siever, Immanuel Wallerstein, Howard Zinn. ISBN 1-56584-005-4.
(1997, 2002). Media Control: The Spectacular Achievements of Propaganda. Seven Stories Press. ISBN 1-58322-536-6. ISBN 1-58322-536-6.
(1998) The Common Good.
(1999) The Umbrella of US Power: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Contradictions of US Policy. Seven Stories Press. ISBN 978-1-888363-85-2
(1999) Latin America: From Colonization to Globalization. Ocean Press. ASIN B000LCC67M
(1999) Acts of Aggression: Policing "Rogue" States (with Edward Said)
(1999) The New Military Humanism: Lessons from Kosovo. Common Courage Press
(1999) Profit over People: Neoliberalism and Global Order. Seven Stories Press. ISBN 978-1-888363-82-1
(2000) Chomsky on Mis-Education (edited by Donaldo Macedo). Rowman & Littlefield. ISBN 978-0-7425-0129-4
(2000) A New Generation Draws the Line: Kosovo, East Timor and the Standards of the West. Verso Books. ISBN 1-85984-789-7
(2000) Rogue States: The Rule of Force in World Affairs. Cambridge: South End Press.
(2001) Propaganda and the Public Mind. South End Press. ISBN 978-0-89608-634-0
(2001) 9-11. Seven Stories Press. ISBN 1-58322-489-0
(2002, 2003). Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky. Mitchell, Peter and John Schoeffel (ed.). Vintage. ISBN 0-09-946606-6.[2]
(2002) Chomsky on Democracy and Education (edited by C.P. Otero). Routledge. ISBN 978-0-415-92632-4
(2002) Pirates and Emperors, Old and New: International Terrorism and the Real World. Pluto Press. ISBN 0-7453-1980-7
(2003) Power and Terror: Post-9/11 Talks and Interviews. Seven Stories Press. ISBN 978-1-58322-590-5.
(2003) Middle East Illusions: Including Peace in the Middle East? Reflections on Justice and Nationhood. Rowman & Littlefield Publishers. ISBN 0-7425-2977-0
(2003) Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance. Metropolitan Books. (Part of the American Empire Project).
(2003) Objectivity and Liberal Scholarship. The New Press. ISBN 978-1-56584-858-0.
(2003) "Deep Concerns" (Znet article)
(2004) Getting Haiti Right This Time: The U.S. and the Coup (with Amy Goodman and Paul Farmer). Common Courage Press. ISBN 1-56751-318-2
(2005) Chomsky on Anarchism (ed Barry Pateman). AK Press. ISBN 1-904859-20-8
(2005) Government in the Future. Seven Stories Press. ISBN 1-58322-685-0. Government in the future. Seven Stories Press. 2005. ISBN 1-58322-685-0. Text of the lecture given at the Poetry Center, New York, February 16, 1970.
(2005) Imperial Ambitions: Conversations on the Post-9/11 World. Metropolitan Books. (Part of the American Empire Project). ISBN 0-8050-7967-X
(2005) A Hated Political Enemy: Allen Bell interviews Noam Chomsky (with Allen Bell). Victoria, BC: Flask. ISBN 978-0-9736853-0-5..."

Noam Chomsky bibliography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What's your field of study, btw?