From an actual independent (me)

[MinTrut]

After you stated "best president of the century, I stopped reading. Thinking to myself WTF is wrong with this guy. Then I actually thought about what you said, this century is very short so far. 22 years short.
So yeah, he has been. And your right again, it ain't saying much.

Is he the best we'll ever get? Probably. Which is really sad. I think we deserve a LOT better than Trump. We sort of deserve what we get for allowing the party loyalist to beat out the truly independents. Maybe we just need to work harder at exposing the the R & D's. We could be like Amway. Tell two people. They tell two people. And so forth and so on.

Oh great, we're down to a ponzi scheme to bring some common sense to party loyalist. But then again, if they fell for the R & D's rhetoric, what's the chances of them falling for the truth?

If we live to see another Ike, we'll be deeply blessed.

How far we've fallen!

 

[YoursTruly]

If we live to see another Ike, we'll be deeply blessed.

How far we've fallen!

You're thoughts on "Barry Goldwater?"

 

[MinTrut]

You're thoughts on "Barry Goldwater?"

Complicated...

 

[DudleySmith]

I stopped being a party loyalist like 10 years ago. I've been a die hard democrat, die hard republican and libertarian. I've spewed the talking points in political arguments for my party. I've dug and researched for hours to try and prove the other side wrong. And I've ignored the things that were wrong with my party and done my best to the change the subject, when challenged. When I was a party loyalist, the "whataboutism" spewed regularly. Why? Because regardless of what party I was loyal to, there was still things wrong with my party. Things that I "overlooked." I had to overlook them, because I was a party loyalist.
Now that I'm not one, I can call out the wrongs with any party or any politician. I've called out Trump on his many lies, Pelosi on her lies and corrupt way she runs the house. McConnell, Ryan, Schumer and the rest of them. All with a clear conscious.
I've also praised Trump when he or the others, when they did or said something that I agreed with.
As a true independent, and an actual conservative, I must say, I wished you party loyalist would just STFU. Y'all sound retarded. The left going on and on and on about Trump. And the right going on and on about the stolen election. Even if it was stolen, it's done. It's over with and nothing is going to change it now.
When both sides (voters.. You people) realize that the ONLY arguments that need to be taking place, are you against your own parties, or both, because they refuse to do what's right for the vast majority of "We the people." Things like Pelosi not allowing your congressman to introduce amendments on the house floor, without first going through committee. (Which is code for lobbyist approval). Also all the spending that goes on inside these bills that are never made public. We only get a glimpse at the BS spending, when a politician wants to make a point about the other party. Things like spending for "Gender studies in Pakistan." Huge funding to corporations or special interest in a Covid relief bill or stimulus package

And please, for the love of god, when a party member exposes something corrupt within their own party, don't rag on them for making the party look bad. Praise them for trying to make the party better. (IE Tulsi Gabbard, Ron Paul, Justin Amash, Dennis Kucinich). Those people, if they ran the party, would actually bring honesty and transparency to their parties. Which would give you people a lot less to argue and fight about.

The right and the left created this retarded system. It's by design to:
1. Keep the voters arguing amongst themselves
2. Stay in power.
3. Allow those with the money to dictate legislation. Legislation that the vast majority of "we the people" would object to. (IE bank bailouts, foreign interventions, spending, and just about everything else)

Party loyalty is something that we'd expect to go on in places like Russia. But it goes on right here. People choosing their party and their talking points over their family and friends. Fact: The R & D's want their voters fighting with each other because they know that if all got along, we'd go against them.

Taken from a song I like:

1. Train the people only to consume
2. Influence adults with the news
3. Indoctrinate the children through the schools and the music and the phones and apps that they use.
4. Separate the right from the left.
5. Separate the white from the black.
6. Separate the rich from the poor. Use religion and equality to separate them more.
7. Fabricate a problem made of lies.
8. Put it on the news every night.
9. When people start to fight and divide, take control. This is called "situational design."

Americans love corruption; they are the ones that make all of the above possible. The middle class has lost the capacity to govern itself, so the power vacuum is filled by the sociopaths, gangsters, faggot pedoes, and all the other outliers. The government is very much a reflection of the people they're governing. No way around that. Pols aren't dropped in from outer space, they are products of the culture they grew up in and were educated in. Lose the culture wars and you lose your country. See Antonio Gramsci for how they went about gutting you. For why trying to replace tradition and morals with legalisms and infantile libertoon narcissism always fails see F.A. Hayek's several books on that.

 

[Billiejeens]

Independents have zero responsibility for any mess. Your way is not the only way. You only think that.

Absolutely factually false.

If you choose to not decide, you still have made a choice - Philosophers Geddy Lee & Alex Lifeson

 

[Billiejeens]

I think I've learned a lot by paying attention to the flaws in all party's. And the effect it has on a lot of voters. I've learned how both party's used that type of division to continue running the country opposite of what and how "we the people" need to it to be ran.
It's just common sense and thinking for ones self.


Ok, well dwell on it, and look EXACTLY like the democrat party loyalist that are going on and on and on about Jan 6th.


No. Just realize where the arguments stem from. Example: Republican voters can argue about abortion for the end of eternity. But at the end of the day, the GOP has had the majority many MANY times since abortion became legal. And every time people like Ron Paul introduced the "Sanctity of Life" bill, during GOP majorities, it was shot down by party party and house leaders.
So you're stuck arguing with democrats about how bad abortion is (or what ever topic), when you're own party is the reason why you're still arguing.


Google is your friend. But I'll give you some examples: Justin Amash exposed how Republicans, during a GOP majority in the House, didn't really want to "balance the budget." He offered budget proposals that would actually balance the budget. He was then kicked off the House Budget committee for trying to actually balance the budget by then House Speaker, John Boehner. And that GOP majority went on to spend more than the last democrat majority.

Does that explain it? Or should I site more examples. Because I have a bunch.


Getting away from the parties allows one to think for themselves. To determine what they truly think and feel. Instead of just following along with what the party demands.
Example: I'm sure there's a LOT of democrats who would object to men (pretending to be women) competing against real women. But because the party dictates that all democrats support transgenders, then they support the party leadership and men competing against women.



Not newly. I've been independent now for about 10 years. And yes, it is sort of like a recovering addict. It even comes with withdrawals. As you can tell my a few of my posts, I still slip a little and argue with party loyalist over issues that even the supposed conservative party (GOP) has done nothing about.

Do you go to sporting events and cheer for teams that aren't playing?

 

[Billiejeens]

I explained how you were wrong. The GOP isn't "conservative" any longer. They've outlawed conservatism when Ron Paul ran in 2012. The last true conservative we had in DC, was Justin Amash. He was ran out of DC by his own party. Kicked off the congressional budget committee for trying to balance the budget, by a republican chairman. (Boehner) Was criticized by his own party for exposing Paul Ryan, when Ryan wouldn't allow amendments to be introduced on the House floor. He opposed Pelosi, Ryan, McConnell and Trumps spending, and was bashed for by republicans.

How much more proof do you need? The right is just as authoritarian as the left. They just have different rhetoric for it.

ah - Justin Amash.

 

[Billiejeens]

I think you're not reading or understanding what I posted. Note the 2020. It's now 2022.
Bernie has always sided with the democratic party. With only minor differences now and then.

Calling Sanders independent is like calling Trump an independent.

Because it is a binary system, which you don't seem to understand.

 

[Billiejeens]

"Separate the white from the black”

The Supreme Court shot that down in Brown v. Board of Education.

I laugh

Schools are literally doing that very thing - today.

 

[Billiejeens]

The support of people who aren't party loyalist. Which isn't going to happen. For the simple fact that both parties only nominate party loyalist.
During the primary season, anyone who's not a party loyalist will be bashed by their party, ignored in the media (per their party leaders request). And it'll translate into those non conformist to drop out of the race.

That's how it's always been done. It works. So they (party leadership) won't be changing their strategy.

Maybe the unicorn faction will help.

 

[Osiris-ODS]

I laugh

Schools are literally doing that very thing - today.

Yep, it's insane. If someone would have told me 20 years ago that this would be happening today, I would have assumed that person was an Alzheimer's patient who thought they were living in the 1950s. This is a great example of the kind of "progress" you get when "progressives" are calling the shots.

 

[YoursTruly]

Do you go to sporting events and cheer for teams that aren't playing?

I don't even go to sporting events. lol

 

[YoursTruly]

Maybe the unicorn faction will help.

You can call it what ever you want. But independents aren't party loyalist. Party loyalist allow the party's to stay in power, regardless of how corrupt they are. Regardless of how many lies they tell. Regardless of anything. Because as long as they keep getting donations and votes, they think they're doing a good job.

 

[PinktheFloyd88]

I stopped being a party loyalist like 10 years ago. I've been a die hard democrat, die hard republican and libertarian. I've spewed the talking points in political arguments for my party. I've dug and researched for hours to try and prove the other side wrong. And I've ignored the things that were wrong with my party and done my best to the change the subject, when challenged. When I was a party loyalist, the "whataboutism" spewed regularly. Why? Because regardless of what party I was loyal to, there was still things wrong with my party. Things that I "overlooked." I had to overlook them, because I was a party loyalist.
Now that I'm not one, I can call out the wrongs with any party or any politician. I've called out Trump on his many lies, Pelosi on her lies and corrupt way she runs the house. McConnell, Ryan, Schumer and the rest of them. All with a clear conscious.
I've also praised Trump when he or the others, when they did or said something that I agreed with.
As a true independent, and an actual conservative, I must say, I wished you party loyalist would just STFU. Y'all sound retarded. The left going on and on and on about Trump. And the right going on and on about the stolen election. Even if it was stolen, it's done. It's over with and nothing is going to change it now.
When both sides (voters.. You people) realize that the ONLY arguments that need to be taking place, are you against your own parties, or both, because they refuse to do what's right for the vast majority of "We the people." Things like Pelosi not allowing your congressman to introduce amendments on the house floor, without first going through committee. (Which is code for lobbyist approval). Also all the spending that goes on inside these bills that are never made public. We only get a glimpse at the BS spending, when a politician wants to make a point about the other party. Things like spending for "Gender studies in Pakistan." Huge funding to corporations or special interest in a Covid relief bill or stimulus package

And please, for the love of god, when a party member exposes something corrupt within their own party, don't rag on them for making the party look bad. Praise them for trying to make the party better. (IE Tulsi Gabbard, Ron Paul, Justin Amash, Dennis Kucinich). Those people, if they ran the party, would actually bring honesty and transparency to their parties. Which would give you people a lot less to argue and fight about.

The right and the left created this retarded system. It's by design to:
1. Keep the voters arguing amongst themselves
2. Stay in power.
3. Allow those with the money to dictate legislation. Legislation that the vast majority of "we the people" would object to. (IE bank bailouts, foreign interventions, spending, and just about everything else)

Party loyalty is something that we'd expect to go on in places like Russia. But it goes on right here. People choosing their party and their talking points over their family and friends. Fact: The R & D's want their voters fighting with each other because they know that if all got along, we'd go against them.

Taken from a song I like:

1. Train the people only to consume
2. Influence adults with the news
3. Indoctrinate the children through the schools and the music and the phones and apps that they use.
4. Separate the right from the left.
5. Separate the white from the black.
6. Separate the rich from the poor. Use religion and equality to separate them more.
7. Fabricate a problem made of lies.
8. Put it on the news every night.
9. When people start to fight and divide, take control. This is called "situational design."

If you are an actual Independent, then my dick is actually as big as Ron Jeremy's

 

[Billiejeens]

You can call it what ever you want. But independents aren't party loyalist. Party loyalist allow the party's to stay in power, regardless of how corrupt they are. Regardless of how many lies they tell. Regardless of anything. Because as long as they keep getting donations and votes, they think they're doing a good job.

Just solely for the sake of discussion, let us say that we elect 535 members to Congress who are all independents.

What happens when they get there?

How do they pass legislation, do they find and gravitate to others with similar values?

That would make sense.

Do they then work together to advance those values and to thwart those that have opposite values?

They are going to have to work together to advance their positions.

If you are averse to categorizing that as a "party", what should we call it.

 

[Billiejeens]

I don't even go to sporting events. lol

Did you not understand the implications of the question?

 

[initforme]

Moderates ate the normal folk. The ends are the crazies. Nuff said

 

[Billiejeens]

Moderates ate the normal folk. The ends are the crazies. Nuff said

Why did they eat them?

 

[JoeB131]

Our political system is broken, because it's flawed to begin with. It incentivizes and rewards the cynical, dishonest, craven, tribal behavior that we're seeing get worse and worse.

Unless and until we change the system, we keep bending over for it. This is a self-inflicted wound.

#ForwardParty

#whinyAndrewYangcan'tgetvotes

What you call tribalism, I call enlightened self-interest.

Of course, politics have always been this way, Vichy Mac like to pretend they haven't been or this is a recent development.

 

[Bobob]

I stopped being a party loyalist like 10 years ago. I've been a die hard democrat, die hard republican and libertarian. I've spewed the talking points in political arguments for my party. I've dug and researched for hours to try and prove the other side wrong. And I've ignored the things that were wrong with my party and done my best to the change the subject, when challenged. When I was a party loyalist, the "whataboutism" spewed regularly. Why? Because regardless of what party I was loyal to, there was still things wrong with my party. Things that I "overlooked." I had to overlook them, because I was a party loyalist.
Now that I'm not one, I can call out the wrongs with any party or any politician. I've called out Trump on his many lies, Pelosi on her lies and corrupt way she runs the house. McConnell, Ryan, Schumer and the rest of them. All with a clear conscious.
I've also praised Trump when he or the others, when they did or said something that I agreed with.
As a true independent, and an actual conservative, I must say, I wished you party loyalist would just STFU. Y'all sound retarded. The left going on and on and on about Trump. And the right going on and on about the stolen election. Even if it was stolen, it's done. It's over with and nothing is going to change it now.
When both sides (voters.. You people) realize that the ONLY arguments that need to be taking place, are you against your own parties, or both, because they refuse to do what's right for the vast majority of "We the people." Things like Pelosi not allowing your congressman to introduce amendments on the house floor, without first going through committee. (Which is code for lobbyist approval). Also all the spending that goes on inside these bills that are never made public. We only get a glimpse at the BS spending, when a politician wants to make a point about the other party. Things like spending for "Gender studies in Pakistan." Huge funding to corporations or special interest in a Covid relief bill or stimulus package

And please, for the love of god, when a party member exposes something corrupt within their own party, don't rag on them for making the party look bad. Praise them for trying to make the party better. (IE Tulsi Gabbard, Ron Paul, Justin Amash, Dennis Kucinich). Those people, if they ran the party, would actually bring honesty and transparency to their parties. Which would give you people a lot less to argue and fight about.

The right and the left created this retarded system. It's by design to:
1. Keep the voters arguing amongst themselves
2. Stay in power.
3. Allow those with the money to dictate legislation. Legislation that the vast majority of "we the people" would object to. (IE bank bailouts, foreign interventions, spending, and just about everything else)

Party loyalty is something that we'd expect to go on in places like Russia. But it goes on right here. People choosing their party and their talking points over their family and friends. Fact: The R & D's want their voters fighting with each other because they know that if all got along, we'd go against them.

Taken from a song I like:

1. Train the people only to consume
2. Influence adults with the news
3. Indoctrinate the children through the schools and the music and the phones and apps that they use.
4. Separate the right from the left.
5. Separate the white from the black.
6. Separate the rich from the poor. Use religion and equality to separate them more.
7. Fabricate a problem made of lies.
8. Put it on the news every night.
9. When people start to fight and divide, take control. This is called "situational design."

I, too, am an independent and do not vote for the independent candidate since they cannot be elected. I recognize that neither party is perfect in their decision-making process, so I vote for the person and not the party. That person needs to have some moral compass and not a history of
grifting and taking advantage of others.