Freedom

[midcan5]

What the fuck are you babbling about now? What does the existence, or non existence, of consequences have to do with anything? Do consequences magically prevent people from doing things? If not, what the fuck do you think you are saying?

Next time you think something is too simple for comment take the advice of Abraham Lincoln to keep your fucking mouth shut.

Freedom is not defined by what you can do, it is defined by how you think.

So a slave would only need to think? You should have been around to advise President Lincoln.

Is that what I said?

Didn't think so.

QW, please stop you seem lost in this thread. And vulgarity doesn't help explanation. Try again. Tell me something I am free to do in reality not in that magical sphere you debate in. Name the freedoms you consider important.

And that is what you said, if freedom is defined by thought alone, then all any subjugated person needs is a mind and a thought and they are free. Prisoners by your logic are the freest people in the world as they have lots of time for thought. http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/50799-is-freedom-real.html

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[Unkotare]

And that is what you said, if freedom is defined by thought alone, then all any subjugated person needs is a mind and a thought and they are free. Prisoners by your logic are the freest people in the world as they have lots of time for thought.
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You're about halfway there.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What the fuck are you babbling about now? What does the existence, or non existence, of consequences have to do with anything? Do consequences magically prevent people from doing things? If not, what the fuck do you think you are saying?

Next time you think something is too simple for comment take the advice of Abraham Lincoln to keep your fucking mouth shut.

So a slave would only need to think? You should have been around to advise President Lincoln.

Is that what I said?

Didn't think so.

QW, please stop you seem lost in this thread. And vulgarity doesn't help explanation. Try again. Tell me something I am free to do in reality not in that magical sphere you debate in. Name the freedoms you consider important.

And that is what you said, if freedom is defined by thought alone, then all any subjugated person needs is a mind and a thought and they are free. Prisoners by your logic are the freest people in the world as they have lots of time for thought. http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/50799-is-freedom-real.html

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Once again, shove your request for me to not use the appropriate language to deal with idiocy up your ass, preferably after folding it into a shape with multiple fucking pointy places.

I suggest you go back and actually read what I write. I did not say that freedom is defined by thought, I said it is defined by how you think. I suggest you consult an English teacher for assistance in parsing that sentence because it is using active voice, not passive.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And that is what you said, if freedom is defined by thought alone, then all any subjugated person needs is a mind and a thought and they are free. Prisoners by your logic are the freest people in the world as they have lots of time for thought.
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You're about halfway there.

It is that about part that is getting him. He expects freedom to happen to him, which is why he has trouble with the concept.

 

[boedicca]

Freedom is the right to be left alone.

 

[Unkotare]

And that is what you said, if freedom is defined by thought alone, then all any subjugated person needs is a mind and a thought and they are free. Prisoners by your logic are the freest people in the world as they have lots of time for thought.
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You're about halfway there.

It is that about part that is getting him. He expects freedom to happen to him, which is why he has trouble with the concept.

To be fair, his limitations may be beyond is control.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You're about halfway there.

It is that about part that is getting him. He expects freedom to happen to him, which is why he has trouble with the concept.

To be fair, his limitations may be beyond is control.

I.d like to be fair, but I really don't believe that people are controlled by genetic programming. I know he isn't stupid, exactly, so I can only conclude to believe he chose to be an ignorant asswipe,

 

[midcan5]

OMG a circle jerk in the philosophy forum, consider the various of ramifications of said congratulatory yanking, and ask do we arrive at any truth through such actions? Could it be simply a consensus of the uninformed?

But back on topic, how you think involves thought, no real difference there. So again your conceptual idea of freedom is that thinking is all you require to be free? Since you offer no substantive examples or even desires, your freedom remains an empty concept devoid of concrete meaning.

Allow me to help you guys with a specific example. One argument for slavery in America was that the slaves were treated well. The alternate example was a factory worker had no rights as she could be fired, while the slave was housed and taken care of. So then given given this situation who was it that experienced freedom. Both one none? Note my experiential reference.

And still no examples of what freedom consists of in the world from QW. Wonder why that is? I think I know why.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

OMG a circle jerk in the philosophy forum, consider the various of ramifications of said congratulatory yanking, and ask do we arrive at any truth through such actions? Could it be simply a consensus of the uninformed?

But back on topic, how you think involves thought, no real difference there. So again your conceptual idea of freedom is that thinking is all you require to be free? Since you offer no substantive examples or even desires, your freedom remains an empty concept devoid of concrete meaning.

Allow me to help you guys with a specific example. One argument for slavery in America was that the slaves were treated well. The alternate example was a factory worker had no rights as she could be fired, while the slave was housed and taken care of. So then given given this situation who was it that experienced freedom. Both one none? Note my experiential reference.

And still no examples of what freedom consists of in the world from QW. Wonder why that is? I think I know why.

Thinking is a process, thought is the result, I can't believe I have to explain that to anyone who has nerve enough to actually post in philosophy.

Remember when I told you to talk to an English teacher? One is what you do (active voice), the other is what happens (passive voice).

How you think, not what you thought.

 

[midcan5]

Again there is no difference, are you so dense you cannot see that. Picayune parsing of words is not helping you. Examples please, so far not a single substantive reply. We are talking about freedom, an English teacher does no teach philosophy. But I understand why you are afraid of nailing down freedom, for then you would have lost the debate.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Again there is no difference, are you so dense you cannot see that. Picayune parsing of words is not helping you. Examples please, so far not a single substantive reply. We are talking about freedom, an English teacher does no teach philosophy. But I understand why you are afraid of nailing down freedom, for then you would have lost the debate.

There is a difference, educate yourself.

Grammar Girl : Active Voice Versus Passive Voice :: Quick and Dirty Tips ?

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/539/02/

Clear, Concise Sentences: Use the active voice

Voice:* Active and Passive

 

[midcan5]

I am therefore I think. Experience leads to thinking, thinking leads to thought, thought leads to behaviors, behaviors lead to experiences, experiences lead to thinking, thinking leads to thought.... We still have nothing from you about freedom, give us an example of freedom.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/103530-fact-paradox-and-random-musings-2.html#post7656862

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[Unkotare]

I am therefore I think.
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Rene's gonna be pissed if you keep messin' with his dictum like that.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I am therefore I think. Experience leads to thinking, thinking leads to thought, thought leads to behaviors, behaviors lead to experiences, experiences lead to thinking, thinking leads to thought.... We still have nothing from you about freedom, give us an example of freedom.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/103530-fact-paradox-and-random-musings-2.html#post7656862

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Brilliant.

Even after I explain the difference between doing something and letting it happen, you insist that they are the same.

 

[midcan5]

QW, so then I guess you have no idea what freedom is? I take you give up?

 

[Intense]

Thought, word, action, effect that which is around it. There is always effect, consequence, good or bad, to whatever degree.

RELATION OF THE QUESTION TO DIFFERENT BRANCHES OF PHILOSOPHY
HISTORY
Free Will in Ancient Philosophy
Free Will and the Christian Religion
Catholic Doctrine
Thomist and Molinist Theories
Free will and the Protestant Reformers
Free Will in Modern Philosophy
THE ARGUMENT
Proof
Objections
NATURE AND RANGE OF MORAL LIBERTY
CONSEQUENCES

The question of free will, moral liberty, or the liberum arbitrium of the Schoolmen, ranks amongst the three or four most important philosophical problems of all time. It ramifies into ethics, theology, metaphysics, and psychology. The view adopted in response to it will determine a man's position in regard to the most momentous issues that present themselves to the human mind. On the one hand, does man possess genuine moral freedom, power of real choice, true ability to determine the course of his thoughts and volitions, to decide which motives shall prevail within his mind, to modify and mould his own character? Or, on the other, are man's thoughts and volitions, his character and external actions, all merely the inevitable outcome of his circumstances? Are they all inexorably predetermined in every detail along rigid lines by events of the past, over which he himself has had no sort of control? This is the real import of the free-will problem.
Relation of the question to different branches of philosophy

(1) Ethically, the issue vitally affects the meaning of most of our fundamental moral terms and ideas. Responsibility, merit, duty, remorse, justice, and the like, will have a totally different significance for one who believes that all man's acts are in the last resort completely determined by agencies beyond his power, from that which these terms bear for the man who believes that each human being possessed of reason can by his own free will determine his deliberate volitions and so exercise a real command over his thoughts, his deeds, and the formation of his character.

(2) Theology studies the questions of the existence, nature and attributes of God, and His relations with man. The reconciliation of God's fore-knowledge and universal providential government of the world with the contingency of human action, as well as the harmonizing of the efficacy of supernatural grace with the free natural power of the creature, has been amongst the most arduous labours of the theological student from the days of St. Augustine down to the present time.

(3) Causality, change, movement, the beginning of existence, are notions which lie at the very heart of metaphysics. The conception of the human will as a free cause involves them all.

(4) Again, the analysis of voluntary action and the investigation of its peculiar features are the special functions of Psychology. Indeed, the nature of the process of volition and of all forms of appetitive or conative activity is a topic that has absorbed a constantly increasing space in psychological literature during the past fifty years.

(5) Finally, the rapid growth of sundry branches of modern science, such as physics, biology, sociology, and the systematization of moral statistics, has made the doctrine of free will a topic of the most keen interest in many departments of more positive knowledge.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will

What is Vision, Discovery, Invention? What is the motivation behind them? Purpose? Intent? Generally? Specifically?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

QW, so then I guess you have no idea what freedom is? I take you give up?

The fact that you are incapable of understanding the difference between active and passive voice in English in no way restricts my ability to understand complex mathematical equations.

 

[midcan5]

Freedomland: A Fable

In Freedomland there were no traffic lights, cars met willy nilly and sometimes great crashes happened. Some people would say we know you think this freedom, we think it not. So they would debate. And some in their thinking thought this is freedom, but others in their thinking thought is this freedom. Still no lights. Work in Freedomland was sometime work and sometimes not. Some inherited wealth and some a business and others lived from day to day. Work could come young or old or in-between and again some thought this is freedom and others in their thinking thought maybe not. In Freedomland's medicine sometimes the young would come in hurt and the doctors would check their pockets and say I'm sorry in Freedomland I am free to treat or not. Work would sometimes be done and sometimes not and some would have nice homes and some nice shacks, everyone was free. Often though this got some thinking is this the best that Freedomland can do. They knew that they had freedom but they knew that they could get hurt or sick or homeless too. Again the debates began because they liked their freedom they liked too to express it in all ways. And some came and some went as they talked for no one really cared they had such freedom. One Freedomlander expressed her thoughts, she said that freedom was all well and good, but that is only if you are lucky. Now this struck all the Freedomlanders as odd for what was luck when you free. But then another jumped right up and said that some were blessed and that was not just luck. This confused them all again and so they sat and thought, and others were thinking how great freedom was and others were thinking I have to work soon. So on it went this debating, and the crashes, and the worker left out in the cold, for what was more important than freedom Freedomlanders thought.

 

[Unkotare]

Perhaps the history of the nation of Liberia is appropriate to this topic.

 

[dblack]

Yeah... freedom blows. Let's move on.