Free will? or god's will?

[Mudda]

Family Of Toddler Shot Dead By 5-Year-Old Brother: ‘It Was God’s Will’

by Steven Bernstein • August 25, 2015


11716
SHARES


Besides the tragedy that guns can bring, there is no deadlier combination for moral and legal responsibility than guns and God. Just ask the family of Caroline Sparks, a two-year-old toddler who was shot with a .22 rifle by her brother- who was five years old, and received the gun as a birthday gift.


What is most difficult to comprehend is the family’s response. Little Caroline was described by her family in the video as a “church-going girl who enjoyed singing and playing outdoors,” as if she understood and chose to accept Divine Revelation at 2 – and go to church.


Acknowledging the tragedy, Caroline’s uncle said “It’s just tragic…It’s something that you can’t prepare for,” as if you should ever have to. The family believes that Caroline is in a “better place.”

The grandmother said “It was God’s will. It was her time to go, I guess…I just know she’s in heaven right now and I know she’s in good hands with the Lord.”

I'm putting this in Religion in hopes that it won't be a discussion about giving children access to guns.

Every once in a while, I think to try again to actually discuss religious beliefs. I'm fascinated by the concept of "sin" but even more by the teeter-totter belief in "god's will". I say "teeter-totter" because it seems to me it is often invoked when people can't or won't take responsibility for their own decisions - "free will" and instead, blame their god.

There's a documentary showing on HBO about fundies disagreement with Darwin - a subject for a different thread. It shows a very tragic case of a young teenage girl who had suffered a spinal cord injury in a car accident and will be forever paralyzed.

She and her parents believe the doctors are wrong, they pray constantly and the mother expressed her disappointment that god is choosing to ignore her asking for her daughter to walk again. (This also reminds me of those who believe in faith healers, don't seek medical care and believe the bad outcome means someone didn't believe hard enough) Then she said that her faith gives her great comfort and said she could not imagine how non-believers could bear such a tragedy.

Where does the responsibility lie? Isn't god all knowing, all seeing? If so, he made these tragedies happen by directing an adult to give a baby a gun and by making a truck hit the car the girl was driving. (Or was it the doing of satan")

If the tragedies are caused by free will, if the adult and the car/truck drivers made the decisions then why bother bring a god into it? And why pray to a god to change the outcome of the people's actions?

Needless to say, my own opinion is that the people involved are directly responsible and that god is a human construct borne of an inability to understand and accept the world as it really is.

Anyone?

Well first off, you are assuming (haha) that everyone does not deserve suffering or to be punished.

God knows everyone better than we know them.

And as the Scripture says, "All things work together for good..." Romans 8:28

Noah

So how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Is your brain TOO BURNT from being in hell to figure that out?

It is? Well let me tell ya.

Keep BURNing in hell, BURNt brain. LOL

So you don't know either. Got it.

 

[GiveMeATicketToWork]

Family Of Toddler Shot Dead By 5-Year-Old Brother: ‘It Was God’s Will’

by Steven Bernstein • August 25, 2015


11716
SHARES


Besides the tragedy that guns can bring, there is no deadlier combination for moral and legal responsibility than guns and God. Just ask the family of Caroline Sparks, a two-year-old toddler who was shot with a .22 rifle by her brother- who was five years old, and received the gun as a birthday gift.


What is most difficult to comprehend is the family’s response. Little Caroline was described by her family in the video as a “church-going girl who enjoyed singing and playing outdoors,” as if she understood and chose to accept Divine Revelation at 2 – and go to church.


Acknowledging the tragedy, Caroline’s uncle said “It’s just tragic…It’s something that you can’t prepare for,” as if you should ever have to. The family believes that Caroline is in a “better place.”

The grandmother said “It was God’s will. It was her time to go, I guess…I just know she’s in heaven right now and I know she’s in good hands with the Lord.”

I'm putting this in Religion in hopes that it won't be a discussion about giving children access to guns.

Every once in a while, I think to try again to actually discuss religious beliefs. I'm fascinated by the concept of "sin" but even more by the teeter-totter belief in "god's will". I say "teeter-totter" because it seems to me it is often invoked when people can't or won't take responsibility for their own decisions - "free will" and instead, blame their god.

There's a documentary showing on HBO about fundies disagreement with Darwin - a subject for a different thread. It shows a very tragic case of a young teenage girl who had suffered a spinal cord injury in a car accident and will be forever paralyzed.

She and her parents believe the doctors are wrong, they pray constantly and the mother expressed her disappointment that god is choosing to ignore her asking for her daughter to walk again. (This also reminds me of those who believe in faith healers, don't seek medical care and believe the bad outcome means someone didn't believe hard enough) Then she said that her faith gives her great comfort and said she could not imagine how non-believers could bear such a tragedy.

Where does the responsibility lie? Isn't god all knowing, all seeing? If so, he made these tragedies happen by directing an adult to give a baby a gun and by making a truck hit the car the girl was driving. (Or was it the doing of satan")

If the tragedies are caused by free will, if the adult and the car/truck drivers made the decisions then why bother bring a god into it? And why pray to a god to change the outcome of the people's actions?

Needless to say, my own opinion is that the people involved are directly responsible and that god is a human construct borne of an inability to understand and accept the world as it really is.

Anyone?

Well first off, you are assuming (haha) that everyone does not deserve suffering or to be punished.

God knows everyone better than we know them.

And as the Scripture says, "All things work together for good..." Romans 8:28

Noah

So how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Is your brain TOO BURNT from being in hell to figure that out?

It is? Well let me tell ya.

Keep BURNing in hell, BURNt brain. LOL

So you don't know either. Got it.

That brain is REALLY frying, ay?

Did I say that?

 

[Mudda]

Family Of Toddler Shot Dead By 5-Year-Old Brother: ‘It Was God’s Will’

by Steven Bernstein • August 25, 2015


11716
SHARES


Besides the tragedy that guns can bring, there is no deadlier combination for moral and legal responsibility than guns and God. Just ask the family of Caroline Sparks, a two-year-old toddler who was shot with a .22 rifle by her brother- who was five years old, and received the gun as a birthday gift.


What is most difficult to comprehend is the family’s response. Little Caroline was described by her family in the video as a “church-going girl who enjoyed singing and playing outdoors,” as if she understood and chose to accept Divine Revelation at 2 – and go to church.


Acknowledging the tragedy, Caroline’s uncle said “It’s just tragic…It’s something that you can’t prepare for,” as if you should ever have to. The family believes that Caroline is in a “better place.”

The grandmother said “It was God’s will. It was her time to go, I guess…I just know she’s in heaven right now and I know she’s in good hands with the Lord.”

I'm putting this in Religion in hopes that it won't be a discussion about giving children access to guns.

Every once in a while, I think to try again to actually discuss religious beliefs. I'm fascinated by the concept of "sin" but even more by the teeter-totter belief in "god's will". I say "teeter-totter" because it seems to me it is often invoked when people can't or won't take responsibility for their own decisions - "free will" and instead, blame their god.

There's a documentary showing on HBO about fundies disagreement with Darwin - a subject for a different thread. It shows a very tragic case of a young teenage girl who had suffered a spinal cord injury in a car accident and will be forever paralyzed.

She and her parents believe the doctors are wrong, they pray constantly and the mother expressed her disappointment that god is choosing to ignore her asking for her daughter to walk again. (This also reminds me of those who believe in faith healers, don't seek medical care and believe the bad outcome means someone didn't believe hard enough) Then she said that her faith gives her great comfort and said she could not imagine how non-believers could bear such a tragedy.

Where does the responsibility lie? Isn't god all knowing, all seeing? If so, he made these tragedies happen by directing an adult to give a baby a gun and by making a truck hit the car the girl was driving. (Or was it the doing of satan")

If the tragedies are caused by free will, if the adult and the car/truck drivers made the decisions then why bother bring a god into it? And why pray to a god to change the outcome of the people's actions?

Needless to say, my own opinion is that the people involved are directly responsible and that god is a human construct borne of an inability to understand and accept the world as it really is.

Anyone?

Well first off, you are assuming (haha) that everyone does not deserve suffering or to be punished.

God knows everyone better than we know them.

And as the Scripture says, "All things work together for good..." Romans 8:28

Noah

So how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Is your brain TOO BURNT from being in hell to figure that out?

It is? Well let me tell ya.

Keep BURNing in hell, BURNt brain. LOL

So you don't know either. Got it.

That brain is REALLY frying, ay?

Did I say that?

Then answer the question, how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

 

[Meriweather]

Then answer the question, how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Where does it say Noah collected animals from all over the planet?

 

[Mudda]

Then answer the question, how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Where does it say Noah collected animals from all over the planet?

"Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth"

Straight from the bible.

 

[Meriweather]

"Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth"

Straight from the bible.

Now let's take the Hebrew words. Different wording is used for earth and planet. Just like in English where earth might mean the earth outside my door, so does 'earth' in Hebrew. It's raining today, and the earth outside my door is flooded. I'm not speaking of the planet. In Hebrew, kol erets (translated into English as the earth) is usually speaking of local geography, and this is borne out by the way it is used in other passages. Further, kol erets sometimes references the population of a regional area--not an entire globe or planet.

In modern times, we are used to thinking globally, but in those days, thinking was regional. In addition, Psalm 104 that does describe the creation of the planet, and tells us that once the waters and land separated, never again would water cover the entire planet.

It is easy to show (using scripture) why Noah's flood, while covering a large region, was not a global flood. Science bears out these scripture passages. So....no kangaroos in Noah's flood, simply the animal population of a local region.

 

[Mudda]

"Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth"

Straight from the bible.

Now let's take the Hebrew words. Different wording is used for earth and planet. Just like in English where earth might mean the earth outside my door, so does 'earth' in Hebrew. It's raining today, and the earth outside my door is flooded. I'm not speaking of the planet. In Hebrew, kol erets (translated into English as the earth) is usually speaking of local geography, and this is borne out by the way it is used in other passages. Further, kol erets sometimes references the population of a regional area--not an entire globe or planet.

In modern times, we are used to thinking globally, but in those days, thinking was regional. In addition, Psalm 104 that does describe the creation of the planet, and tells us that once the waters and land separated, never again would water cover the entire planet.

It is easy to show (using scripture) why Noah's flood, while covering a large region, was not a global flood. Science bears out these scripture passages. So....no kangaroos in Noah's flood, simply the animal population of a local region.

Nobody cares what the Hebrew word for anything is. The bible says what it says, deal with it.

 

[GiveMeATicketToWork]

Well first off, you are assuming (haha) that everyone does not deserve suffering or to be punished.

God knows everyone better than we know them.

And as the Scripture says, "All things work together for good..." Romans 8:28

Noah

So how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Is your brain TOO BURNT from being in hell to figure that out?

It is? Well let me tell ya.

Keep BURNing in hell, BURNt brain. LOL

So you don't know either. Got it.

That brain is REALLY frying, ay?

Did I say that?

Then answer the question, how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Why did Jesus refer to living people as "the dead" in Matt. 8:22?

And why is there a snake that talks in Genesis 3 when snakes don't talk?

The story is allegorical.

 

[Meriweather]

Nobody cares what the Hebrew word for anything is. The bible says what it says, deal with it.

Jews, Catholics, and Orthodox care...probably other denominations as well. What can't be helped are the denominations who are less well versed--and people who decide they can interpret the Bible without adequate study.

 

[Mudda]

Nobody cares what the Hebrew word for anything is. The bible says what it says, deal with it.

Jews, Catholics, and Orthodox care...probably other denominations as well. What can't be helped are the denominations who are less well versed--and people who decide they can interpret the Bible without adequate study.

So you're actually trying to argue that Noah didn't need two of every animal? You're an idiot. Now you know.

 

[Mudda]

So how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Is your brain TOO BURNT from being in hell to figure that out?

It is? Well let me tell ya.

Keep BURNing in hell, BURNt brain. LOL

So you don't know either. Got it.

That brain is REALLY frying, ay?

Did I say that?

Then answer the question, how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Why did Jesus refer to living people as "the dead" in Matt. 8:22?

And why is there a snake that talks in Genesis 3 when snakes don't talk?

The story is allegorical.

So you don't know either. Gee, what a surprise!

 

[Meriweather]

So you're actually trying to argue that Noah didn't need two of every animal?

Didn't argue anything of the sort. I merely pointed out that the animals on the ark were those of the local/regional population, not the world's population of animals. Ergo, no kangaroos or pandas.

 

[GiveMeATicketToWork]

Is your brain TOO BURNT from being in hell to figure that out?

It is? Well let me tell ya.

Keep BURNing in hell, BURNt brain. LOL

So you don't know either. Got it.

That brain is REALLY frying, ay?

Did I say that?

Then answer the question, how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Why did Jesus refer to living people as "the dead" in Matt. 8:22?

And why is there a snake that talks in Genesis 3 when snakes don't talk?

The story is allegorical.

So you don't know either. Gee, what a surprise!

It can only be literal or an allegory. Since it can't be literally done, it can only be an allegory, numb-nuts.

 

[Mudda]

So you're actually trying to argue that Noah didn't need two of every animal?

Didn't argue anything of the sort. I merely pointed out that the animals on the ark were those of the local/regional population, not the world's population of animals. Ergo, no kangaroos or pandas.

So if the whole world was flooded, where did Roos and pandas come from?

 

[Mudda]

So you don't know either. Got it.

That brain is REALLY frying, ay?

Did I say that?

Then answer the question, how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Why did Jesus refer to living people as "the dead" in Matt. 8:22?

And why is there a snake that talks in Genesis 3 when snakes don't talk?

The story is allegorical.

So you don't know either. Gee, what a surprise!

It can only be literal or an allegory. Since it can't be literally done, it can only be an allegory, numb-nuts.

So you admit that the stories in the bible are bullshit. Got it.

 

[Meriweather]

So if the whole world was flooded, where did Roos and pandas come from?

You may have forgotten most of what I previously explained. What was lost (for many, but not all) in the translation from Hebrew to English, is that the story of Noah's flood was a regional flood, involving his local, geographical area of the earth--not the entire planet. In the area in which Noah lived, the earth was flooded, covered with water. This is very different from the globe being covered with water. Pandas and Kangaroos weren't residents of the flood location.

 

[Likkmee]

Granny is delusional..like most Kwisstiunz.
No human is in heaven right now(The dead know nothing).NOOP. Not Noah. Not Adam. Not Luke. Not Methuselah.
The new heaven will be brought down and the day of judgement will come to determine who the occupants will be.It'll be a very sparsely populated place. Like Antarctica but warmer.
She doesn't know that because she can't read(like most duh_merrikants).
*** Here's where fake Kwiztiunz come and talk about JC on the cross talking to thieves because they're too stupid to know the ancient languages had no separation between words much less any punctuation.....completely changing what was actually said.
That's OK tho. King Hymie liked it.......OK he liked it the second time around(revised version)

 

[Mudda]

So if the whole world was flooded, where did Roos and pandas come from?

You may have forgotten most of what I previously explained. What was lost (for many, but not all) in the translation from Hebrew to English, is that the story of Noah's flood was a regional flood, involving his local, geographical area of the earth--not the entire planet. In the area in which Noah lived, the earth was flooded, covered with water. This is very different from the globe being covered with water. Pandas and Kangaroos weren't residents of the flood location.

Oh, so now not only did Noah not have 2 of every animal, but it wasn't a worldwide flood.

What religion did you say you followed?

 

[GiveMeATicketToWork]

That brain is REALLY frying, ay?

Did I say that?

Then answer the question, how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Why did Jesus refer to living people as "the dead" in Matt. 8:22?

And why is there a snake that talks in Genesis 3 when snakes don't talk?

The story is allegorical.

So you don't know either. Gee, what a surprise!

It can only be literal or an allegory. Since it can't be literally done, it can only be an allegory, numb-nuts.

So you admit that the stories in the bible are bullshit. Got it.

No, you got the FLAMES of hell burning your stinking *ss LOLOL.

 

[Mudda]

Then answer the question, how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Why did Jesus refer to living people as "the dead" in Matt. 8:22?

And why is there a snake that talks in Genesis 3 when snakes don't talk?

The story is allegorical.

So you don't know either. Gee, what a surprise!

It can only be literal or an allegory. Since it can't be literally done, it can only be an allegory, numb-nuts.

So you admit that the stories in the bible are bullshit. Got it.

No, you got the FLAMES of hell burning your stinking *ss LOLOL.

You just said that the story of Noah couldn't be physically done. You think that bible isn't true. You're going to hell. See ya there. And don't forget, when you get there, don't pass Adolf the salt.