Free will? or god's will?

[September]

You don't ask yourself: "hmmm, I wonder how Noah got polar bears from the arctic and back?" That's odd.

Perhaps God used wormholes or teleportation... combined with the ability to compel animals.​

So he was probably an extraterrestrial?

"In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth".

If the Abrahamic God exists at all in a manner consistent with biblical theology than yes, that being(s) would be extraterrestrial...​

 

[featherlite]

I started coming here looking for answers to why people believe in the bible

Simple - it's survived the test of time, is the all-time best seller.
Unable to be banned or banished... its Words have Life.
If you truly understand the Bible, as revealed by the Holy Spirit combined with knowledge and wisdom you will begin to know God, and the meaning of real Life.

It's survived the test of time? So how did Noah get marsupials from Australia and back again? Who saw god make everything in 6 days and be so pooped that he needed a day off? How about we start with these 2 questions?

And the bible isn't even original but is is based on other religions.

Its interesting that the belief in a super being is almost universal and has indeed survived for thousands of years before Jesus and since.

Then of course, there's the story of Jesus, written years after he lived and undoubtedly pure fiction, as is the rest of the bible.

The story of Noah is way past merely bizarre and if god is really a god, why would need to rest?

God’s “rest” was not due to His being tired, but to His being completely finished with His creative work.
He did not NEED to rest!

So how do you know that god needed 6 days to make everything? Are we gonna go to the video tape?
And what about my FUCKING MARSUPIALS? Somebody please explain to me how Noah got them from Australia and back again.

The marsupials took a charter boat to the Ark.

I started coming here looking for answers to why people believe in the bible

Simple - it's survived the test of time, is the all-time best seller.
Unable to be banned or banished... its Words have Life.
If you truly understand the Bible, as revealed by the Holy Spirit combined with knowledge and wisdom you will begin to know God, and the meaning of real Life.

It's survived the test of time? So how did Noah get marsupials from Australia and back again? Who saw god make everything in 6 days and be so pooped that he needed a day off? How about we start with these 2 questions?

And the bible isn't even original but is is based on other religions.

Its interesting that the belief in a super being is almost universal and has indeed survived for thousands of years before Jesus and since.

Then of course, there's the story of Jesus, written years after he lived and undoubtedly pure fiction, as is the rest of the bible.

The story of Noah is way past merely bizarre and if god is really a god, why would need to rest?

God’s “rest” was not due to His being tired, but to His being completely finished with His creative work.
He did not NEED to rest!

So how do you know that god needed 6 days to make everything? Are we gonna go to the video tape?
And what about my FUCKING MARSUPIALS? Somebody please explain to me how Noah got them from Australia and back again.

That ark was going no where without the Wombats!

 

[Bonzi]

"How God achieved this through Noah is not a real high priority for me." So figuring if a book you're following is true or not isn't a high priority? You prefer the fantasy life to the real thing. I can't bring myself to do that.

I just think there are other more pressing things about my faith and God that require my attention.
Namely, loving Him and loving others. I struggle with both!

You have trouble loving an invisible superbeing who lives in another dimension? Ya, no kidding.

Oh you know what I mean! Really my problem is not being selfish! I've not ever been good about making sacrifices (doing things you don't want to do for the benefit of others) -

You can do lots of things for others, but if you ENJOY it, it's not really a sacrifice, so I don't count those!

 

[Taz]

"How God achieved this through Noah is not a real high priority for me." So figuring if a book you're following is true or not isn't a high priority? You prefer the fantasy life to the real thing. I can't bring myself to do that.

I just think there are other more pressing things about my faith and God that require my attention.
Namely, loving Him and loving others. I struggle with both!

You have trouble loving an invisible superbeing who lives in another dimension? Ya, no kidding.

Oh you know what I mean! Really my problem is not being selfish! I've not ever been good about making sacrifices (doing things you don't want to do for the benefit of others) -

You can do lots of things for others, but if you ENJOY it, it's not really a sacrifice, so I don't count those!

So loving God is to be someone else's lackey? Sorry, I have a bad knee, no can do.

 

[Bonzi]

"How God achieved this through Noah is not a real high priority for me." So figuring if a book you're following is true or not isn't a high priority? You prefer the fantasy life to the real thing. I can't bring myself to do that.

I just think there are other more pressing things about my faith and God that require my attention.
Namely, loving Him and loving others. I struggle with both!

You have trouble loving an invisible superbeing who lives in another dimension? Ya, no kidding.

Oh you know what I mean! Really my problem is not being selfish! I've not ever been good about making sacrifices (doing things you don't want to do for the benefit of others) -

You can do lots of things for others, but if you ENJOY it, it's not really a sacrifice, so I don't count those!

So loving God is to be someone else's lackey? Sorry, I have a bad knee, no can do.

It's not being a lackey - I'm not even really arguing with you.
Count the costs.
If you want to live your own life and not accept God's free gift of salvation that is your choice.

Do you view life as only your life on Earth? Do you believe you will live forever?

 

[Taz]

"How God achieved this through Noah is not a real high priority for me." So figuring if a book you're following is true or not isn't a high priority? You prefer the fantasy life to the real thing. I can't bring myself to do that.

I just think there are other more pressing things about my faith and God that require my attention.
Namely, loving Him and loving others. I struggle with both!

You have trouble loving an invisible superbeing who lives in another dimension? Ya, no kidding.

Oh you know what I mean! Really my problem is not being selfish! I've not ever been good about making sacrifices (doing things you don't want to do for the benefit of others) -

You can do lots of things for others, but if you ENJOY it, it's not really a sacrifice, so I don't count those!

So loving God is to be someone else's lackey? Sorry, I have a bad knee, no can do.

It's not being a lackey - I'm not even really arguing with you.
Count the costs.
If you want to live your own life and not accept God's free gift of salvation that is your choice.

Do you view life as only your life on Earth? Do you believe you will live forever?

Whatever happens after death will happen, and we don't know what that is (yet). Reading some magical story in a book won't change that.

 

[Bonzi]

I just think there are other more pressing things about my faith and God that require my attention.
Namely, loving Him and loving others. I struggle with both!

You have trouble loving an invisible superbeing who lives in another dimension? Ya, no kidding.

Oh you know what I mean! Really my problem is not being selfish! I've not ever been good about making sacrifices (doing things you don't want to do for the benefit of others) -

You can do lots of things for others, but if you ENJOY it, it's not really a sacrifice, so I don't count those!

So loving God is to be someone else's lackey? Sorry, I have a bad knee, no can do.

It's not being a lackey - I'm not even really arguing with you.
Count the costs.
If you want to live your own life and not accept God's free gift of salvation that is your choice.

Do you view life as only your life on Earth? Do you believe you will live forever?

Whatever happens after death will happen, and we don't know what that is (yet). Reading some magical story in a book won't change that.

Reading a book could most definitely change where you go after you die......
But I want to know what you THINK. Or don't you care what happens?

 

[sealybobo]

Same documentary discussed how Darwin questioned the enormous suffering and cruelty in the world. Not just 'man's inhumanity to man' but in the natural world as well. He couldn't accept a god who would purposely cause his own creations such unimaginable pain.

So, the same question: who is responsible for that pain and suffering? Again, I believe human beings choose their own actions but what about the natural world? Why would a god create animals who cause other animals incredible physical pain in order to survive?

I just learned today that the Irish Potato famine didn't have to happen. There was plenty of food on the island but England made Ireland sell that food on the open market. Many English Christians didn't like the Catholic Irish and they though that millions of them starving was god's will. Truth is, it didn't have to happen.

And these are our ancestors who have passed down their religion to us. Are we really supposed to believe our ancestors ancient stories when they were so clearly corrupt and evil?

They talked about how one Catholic Irishman had his fingernails pulled out for playing the harp.

Memory Of Potato Famine Burdens 'Immortal Irishman'

 

[sealybobo]

I just think there are other more pressing things about my faith and God that require my attention.
Namely, loving Him and loving others. I struggle with both!

You have trouble loving an invisible superbeing who lives in another dimension? Ya, no kidding.

Oh you know what I mean! Really my problem is not being selfish! I've not ever been good about making sacrifices (doing things you don't want to do for the benefit of others) -

You can do lots of things for others, but if you ENJOY it, it's not really a sacrifice, so I don't count those!

So loving God is to be someone else's lackey? Sorry, I have a bad knee, no can do.

It's not being a lackey - I'm not even really arguing with you.
Count the costs.
If you want to live your own life and not accept God's free gift of salvation that is your choice.

Do you view life as only your life on Earth? Do you believe you will live forever?

Whatever happens after death will happen, and we don't know what that is (yet). Reading some magical story in a book won't change that.

And I am 100% certain that getting into heaven doesn't require believing any story that ever came out of any Christians mouth and that includes the stories of Jesus.

What a cult. If you don't believe and follow you will burn in hell. Brilliant hook.

 

[RodISHI]

You have trouble loving an invisible superbeing who lives in another dimension? Ya, no kidding.

Oh you know what I mean! Really my problem is not being selfish! I've not ever been good about making sacrifices (doing things you don't want to do for the benefit of others) -

You can do lots of things for others, but if you ENJOY it, it's not really a sacrifice, so I don't count those!

So loving God is to be someone else's lackey? Sorry, I have a bad knee, no can do.

It's not being a lackey - I'm not even really arguing with you.
Count the costs.
If you want to live your own life and not accept God's free gift of salvation that is your choice.

Do you view life as only your life on Earth? Do you believe you will live forever?

Whatever happens after death will happen, and we don't know what that is (yet). Reading some magical story in a book won't change that.

And I am 100% certain that getting into heaven doesn't require believing any story that ever came out of any Christians mouth and that includes the stories of Jesus.

What a cult. If you don't believe and follow you will burn in hell. Brilliant hook.

The kingdom of heaven is within you. Hell is separation from God. Burning is a spiritual/emotional issue within your own mind. No hook just facts and many Christians have followed what they were taught. Some understand and some do not. Some have been blessed enough to see what happens after death some have not. It is up to you to search out truth or live in a lie just as it is for everyone else.

 

[Bonzi]

You have trouble loving an invisible superbeing who lives in another dimension? Ya, no kidding.

Oh you know what I mean! Really my problem is not being selfish! I've not ever been good about making sacrifices (doing things you don't want to do for the benefit of others) -

You can do lots of things for others, but if you ENJOY it, it's not really a sacrifice, so I don't count those!

So loving God is to be someone else's lackey? Sorry, I have a bad knee, no can do.

It's not being a lackey - I'm not even really arguing with you.
Count the costs.
If you want to live your own life and not accept God's free gift of salvation that is your choice.

Do you view life as only your life on Earth? Do you believe you will live forever?

Whatever happens after death will happen, and we don't know what that is (yet). Reading some magical story in a book won't change that.

And I am 100% certain that getting into heaven doesn't require believing any story that ever came out of any Christians mouth and that includes the stories of Jesus.

What a cult. If you don't believe and follow you will burn in hell. Brilliant hook.

That's not what the Bible says... just FYI
Anyone that presents it that way is misleading people

 

[RodISHI]

Oh you know what I mean! Really my problem is not being selfish! I've not ever been good about making sacrifices (doing things you don't want to do for the benefit of others) -

You can do lots of things for others, but if you ENJOY it, it's not really a sacrifice, so I don't count those!

So loving God is to be someone else's lackey? Sorry, I have a bad knee, no can do.

It's not being a lackey - I'm not even really arguing with you.
Count the costs.
If you want to live your own life and not accept God's free gift of salvation that is your choice.

Do you view life as only your life on Earth? Do you believe you will live forever?

Whatever happens after death will happen, and we don't know what that is (yet). Reading some magical story in a book won't change that.

And I am 100% certain that getting into heaven doesn't require believing any story that ever came out of any Christians mouth and that includes the stories of Jesus.

What a cult. If you don't believe and follow you will burn in hell. Brilliant hook.

That's not what the Bible says... just FYI
Anyone that presents it that way is misleading people

I can understand many peoples frustration as many Christians do not represent the whole Word. Sorry cherry picking does not work when someone spouts off about things that they cannot perceive, have not learned yet or are blinded to.

 

[sealybobo]

Oh you know what I mean! Really my problem is not being selfish! I've not ever been good about making sacrifices (doing things you don't want to do for the benefit of others) -

You can do lots of things for others, but if you ENJOY it, it's not really a sacrifice, so I don't count those!

So loving God is to be someone else's lackey? Sorry, I have a bad knee, no can do.

It's not being a lackey - I'm not even really arguing with you.
Count the costs.
If you want to live your own life and not accept God's free gift of salvation that is your choice.

Do you view life as only your life on Earth? Do you believe you will live forever?

Whatever happens after death will happen, and we don't know what that is (yet). Reading some magical story in a book won't change that.

And I am 100% certain that getting into heaven doesn't require believing any story that ever came out of any Christians mouth and that includes the stories of Jesus.

What a cult. If you don't believe and follow you will burn in hell. Brilliant hook.

That's not what the Bible says... just FYI
Anyone that presents it that way is misleading people

Says one particular Colt in one part of the world in one point of time in history

 

[Mudda]

God gave me free will so I use it. He doesn't care how.

 

[Mudda]

Oh you know what I mean! Really my problem is not being selfish! I've not ever been good about making sacrifices (doing things you don't want to do for the benefit of others) -

You can do lots of things for others, but if you ENJOY it, it's not really a sacrifice, so I don't count those!

So loving God is to be someone else's lackey? Sorry, I have a bad knee, no can do.

It's not being a lackey - I'm not even really arguing with you.
Count the costs.
If you want to live your own life and not accept God's free gift of salvation that is your choice.

Do you view life as only your life on Earth? Do you believe you will live forever?

Whatever happens after death will happen, and we don't know what that is (yet). Reading some magical story in a book won't change that.

And I am 100% certain that getting into heaven doesn't require believing any story that ever came out of any Christians mouth and that includes the stories of Jesus.

What a cult. If you don't believe and follow you will burn in hell. Brilliant hook.

That's not what the Bible says... just FYI
Anyone that presents it that way is misleading people

The bible says that Noah had 2 of every animal on his raft. How did he get kangaroos there? Polar bears? So anyone who believe the bible is a fool.

 

[Bonzi]

So loving God is to be someone else's lackey? Sorry, I have a bad knee, no can do.

It's not being a lackey - I'm not even really arguing with you.
Count the costs.
If you want to live your own life and not accept God's free gift of salvation that is your choice.

Do you view life as only your life on Earth? Do you believe you will live forever?

Whatever happens after death will happen, and we don't know what that is (yet). Reading some magical story in a book won't change that.

And I am 100% certain that getting into heaven doesn't require believing any story that ever came out of any Christians mouth and that includes the stories of Jesus.

What a cult. If you don't believe and follow you will burn in hell. Brilliant hook.

That's not what the Bible says... just FYI
Anyone that presents it that way is misleading people

The bible says that Noah had 2 of every animal on his raft. How did he get kangaroos there? Polar bears? So anyone who believe the bible is a fool.

Based on your statement, anyone that believes there is any being that is all powerful, all knowing and present everywhere is a fool.
Or, that anything that defies human logic or reason is a fool.

 

[Mudda]

It's not being a lackey - I'm not even really arguing with you.
Count the costs.
If you want to live your own life and not accept God's free gift of salvation that is your choice.

Do you view life as only your life on Earth? Do you believe you will live forever?

Whatever happens after death will happen, and we don't know what that is (yet). Reading some magical story in a book won't change that.

And I am 100% certain that getting into heaven doesn't require believing any story that ever came out of any Christians mouth and that includes the stories of Jesus.

What a cult. If you don't believe and follow you will burn in hell. Brilliant hook.

That's not what the Bible says... just FYI
Anyone that presents it that way is misleading people

The bible says that Noah had 2 of every animal on his raft. How did he get kangaroos there? Polar bears? So anyone who believe the bible is a fool.

Based on your statement, anyone that believes there is any being that is all powerful, all knowing and present everywhere is a fool.
Or, that anything that defies human logic or reason is a fool.

No, just people who follow and believe books like the bible and the koran, which are both the word of man.

 

[GiveMeATicketToWork]

Family Of Toddler Shot Dead By 5-Year-Old Brother: ‘It Was God’s Will’

by Steven Bernstein • August 25, 2015


11716
SHARES


Besides the tragedy that guns can bring, there is no deadlier combination for moral and legal responsibility than guns and God. Just ask the family of Caroline Sparks, a two-year-old toddler who was shot with a .22 rifle by her brother- who was five years old, and received the gun as a birthday gift.


What is most difficult to comprehend is the family’s response. Little Caroline was described by her family in the video as a “church-going girl who enjoyed singing and playing outdoors,” as if she understood and chose to accept Divine Revelation at 2 – and go to church.


Acknowledging the tragedy, Caroline’s uncle said “It’s just tragic…It’s something that you can’t prepare for,” as if you should ever have to. The family believes that Caroline is in a “better place.”

The grandmother said “It was God’s will. It was her time to go, I guess…I just know she’s in heaven right now and I know she’s in good hands with the Lord.”

I'm putting this in Religion in hopes that it won't be a discussion about giving children access to guns.

Every once in a while, I think to try again to actually discuss religious beliefs. I'm fascinated by the concept of "sin" but even more by the teeter-totter belief in "god's will". I say "teeter-totter" because it seems to me it is often invoked when people can't or won't take responsibility for their own decisions - "free will" and instead, blame their god.

There's a documentary showing on HBO about fundies disagreement with Darwin - a subject for a different thread. It shows a very tragic case of a young teenage girl who had suffered a spinal cord injury in a car accident and will be forever paralyzed.

She and her parents believe the doctors are wrong, they pray constantly and the mother expressed her disappointment that god is choosing to ignore her asking for her daughter to walk again. (This also reminds me of those who believe in faith healers, don't seek medical care and believe the bad outcome means someone didn't believe hard enough) Then she said that her faith gives her great comfort and said she could not imagine how non-believers could bear such a tragedy.

Where does the responsibility lie? Isn't god all knowing, all seeing? If so, he made these tragedies happen by directing an adult to give a baby a gun and by making a truck hit the car the girl was driving. (Or was it the doing of satan")

If the tragedies are caused by free will, if the adult and the car/truck drivers made the decisions then why bother bring a god into it? And why pray to a god to change the outcome of the people's actions?

Needless to say, my own opinion is that the people involved are directly responsible and that god is a human construct borne of an inability to understand and accept the world as it really is.

Anyone?

Well first off, you are assuming (haha) that everyone does not deserve suffering or to be punished.

God knows everyone better than we know them.

And as the Scripture says, "All things work together for good..." Romans 8:28

Noah

 

[Mudda]

Family Of Toddler Shot Dead By 5-Year-Old Brother: ‘It Was God’s Will’

by Steven Bernstein • August 25, 2015


11716
SHARES


Besides the tragedy that guns can bring, there is no deadlier combination for moral and legal responsibility than guns and God. Just ask the family of Caroline Sparks, a two-year-old toddler who was shot with a .22 rifle by her brother- who was five years old, and received the gun as a birthday gift.


What is most difficult to comprehend is the family’s response. Little Caroline was described by her family in the video as a “church-going girl who enjoyed singing and playing outdoors,” as if she understood and chose to accept Divine Revelation at 2 – and go to church.


Acknowledging the tragedy, Caroline’s uncle said “It’s just tragic…It’s something that you can’t prepare for,” as if you should ever have to. The family believes that Caroline is in a “better place.”

The grandmother said “It was God’s will. It was her time to go, I guess…I just know she’s in heaven right now and I know she’s in good hands with the Lord.”

I'm putting this in Religion in hopes that it won't be a discussion about giving children access to guns.

Every once in a while, I think to try again to actually discuss religious beliefs. I'm fascinated by the concept of "sin" but even more by the teeter-totter belief in "god's will". I say "teeter-totter" because it seems to me it is often invoked when people can't or won't take responsibility for their own decisions - "free will" and instead, blame their god.

There's a documentary showing on HBO about fundies disagreement with Darwin - a subject for a different thread. It shows a very tragic case of a young teenage girl who had suffered a spinal cord injury in a car accident and will be forever paralyzed.

She and her parents believe the doctors are wrong, they pray constantly and the mother expressed her disappointment that god is choosing to ignore her asking for her daughter to walk again. (This also reminds me of those who believe in faith healers, don't seek medical care and believe the bad outcome means someone didn't believe hard enough) Then she said that her faith gives her great comfort and said she could not imagine how non-believers could bear such a tragedy.

Where does the responsibility lie? Isn't god all knowing, all seeing? If so, he made these tragedies happen by directing an adult to give a baby a gun and by making a truck hit the car the girl was driving. (Or was it the doing of satan")

If the tragedies are caused by free will, if the adult and the car/truck drivers made the decisions then why bother bring a god into it? And why pray to a god to change the outcome of the people's actions?

Needless to say, my own opinion is that the people involved are directly responsible and that god is a human construct borne of an inability to understand and accept the world as it really is.

Anyone?

Well first off, you are assuming (haha) that everyone does not deserve suffering or to be punished.

God knows everyone better than we know them.

And as the Scripture says, "All things work together for good..." Romans 8:28

Noah

So how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

 

[GiveMeATicketToWork]

Family Of Toddler Shot Dead By 5-Year-Old Brother: ‘It Was God’s Will’

by Steven Bernstein • August 25, 2015


11716
SHARES


Besides the tragedy that guns can bring, there is no deadlier combination for moral and legal responsibility than guns and God. Just ask the family of Caroline Sparks, a two-year-old toddler who was shot with a .22 rifle by her brother- who was five years old, and received the gun as a birthday gift.


What is most difficult to comprehend is the family’s response. Little Caroline was described by her family in the video as a “church-going girl who enjoyed singing and playing outdoors,” as if she understood and chose to accept Divine Revelation at 2 – and go to church.


Acknowledging the tragedy, Caroline’s uncle said “It’s just tragic…It’s something that you can’t prepare for,” as if you should ever have to. The family believes that Caroline is in a “better place.”

The grandmother said “It was God’s will. It was her time to go, I guess…I just know she’s in heaven right now and I know she’s in good hands with the Lord.”

I'm putting this in Religion in hopes that it won't be a discussion about giving children access to guns.

Every once in a while, I think to try again to actually discuss religious beliefs. I'm fascinated by the concept of "sin" but even more by the teeter-totter belief in "god's will". I say "teeter-totter" because it seems to me it is often invoked when people can't or won't take responsibility for their own decisions - "free will" and instead, blame their god.

There's a documentary showing on HBO about fundies disagreement with Darwin - a subject for a different thread. It shows a very tragic case of a young teenage girl who had suffered a spinal cord injury in a car accident and will be forever paralyzed.

She and her parents believe the doctors are wrong, they pray constantly and the mother expressed her disappointment that god is choosing to ignore her asking for her daughter to walk again. (This also reminds me of those who believe in faith healers, don't seek medical care and believe the bad outcome means someone didn't believe hard enough) Then she said that her faith gives her great comfort and said she could not imagine how non-believers could bear such a tragedy.

Where does the responsibility lie? Isn't god all knowing, all seeing? If so, he made these tragedies happen by directing an adult to give a baby a gun and by making a truck hit the car the girl was driving. (Or was it the doing of satan")

If the tragedies are caused by free will, if the adult and the car/truck drivers made the decisions then why bother bring a god into it? And why pray to a god to change the outcome of the people's actions?

Needless to say, my own opinion is that the people involved are directly responsible and that god is a human construct borne of an inability to understand and accept the world as it really is.

Anyone?

Well first off, you are assuming (haha) that everyone does not deserve suffering or to be punished.

God knows everyone better than we know them.

And as the Scripture says, "All things work together for good..." Romans 8:28

Noah

So how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back?

Is your brain TOO BURNT from being in hell to figure that out?

It is? Well let me tell ya.

Keep BURNing in hell, BURNt brain. LOL