Forsaking all/Renunciation

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by ciel_perdu, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. ciel_perdu
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    ciel_perdu Rookie

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    Jesus said in Luke 14:33 ''whosoever of you that does not forsake all that he owns, cannot be my disciple''.

    We see from Jesus' life that he did this, and we see ample evidence of his disciples doing this, not only in the gospels, but in the book of Acts too.

    Buddha also renounced everything, forsaking his worldly possessions/attachments/relationships etc in the search for meaning and truth and the end of suffering.

    I believe Christians should follow this teaching of Jesus, just like his first disciples did, but there are a very rare few that do. Why? Isn't it because we love our possessions, our status, our relationships, our lives and our money!

    So, how do people reconcile what Jesus did and what Buddha did, and what they taught, with their own unwillingness to actually do the same?

    We say that we have let go of all our attachments in our heart.

    It certainly sounds a lot more spiritual doesn't it? People inevitably say, ''yes, certainly if you're (so un-spiritual) to be attached to your possessions then you will need to forsake them...as for me, I don't need to ACTUALLY forsake anything that I own because, I am not attached''.

    How convenient. They spiritualize not letting go of their attachments, at the same time as making out that those who actually DO literally forsake all they own, to be some what spiritually inferior.

    Truly a measure of our attachment to money, our possessions, our relationships, to our lives, will be if we can forsake them all for God, love and truth. Jesus did it, and taught his disciples to do it.

    So, why don't we do it?
     
  2. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    I don't because I prefer to live indoors.
     
  3. sparky
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    sparky VIP Member

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    looks like 'ol Buddha didn't forsake many meals.....
     
  4. tonystewart1
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    tonystewart1 VIP Member

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    "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."

    John 10:10

    Why is it so many Christians think that God wants you to suffer to serve him. You are the light that shown from Chirst. He gave us the light. Christians should be happy and content with the blessings God had given them. My money and my house are blessings God has given me and I praise him for them everyday. I do not hesitate to tell anyone how they are blessings from God.

    Yes you can spiritually forsake your material possesions. Money is not the root of all evil. The love of money is.
     
  5. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    One doesn't even have to be religious to realize modern Americans have lost some sense of the value of life. But consider that we live in a consumer society in which consuming and having are the central actions of the people. They keep us going, good thoughts don't. Today your call to a more austere lifestyle is even countered by the religious in America. Religion today has nothing to do with the spiritual it is all about the material. Modern American consumerism has done something a religious person would think impossible, it has managed to turn the values of Christianity into values that would have once been considered narcissism. And you can read replies and check out Osteen and others for proof.


    "Something is profoundly wrong with the way we live today. For thirty years we have made a virtue out of the pursuit of material self-interest: indeed, this very pursuit now constitutes whatever remains of our sense of collective purpose. We know what things cost but have no idea what they are worth. We no longer ask of a judicial ruling or a legislative act: is it good? Is it fair? Is it just? Is it right? Will it help bring about a better society or a better world? Those used to be the political questions, even if they invited no easy answers. We must learn once again to pose them." Tony Judt 'Ill Fares the Land'
     
  6. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Of course the darker flipside of that belief system is implied thusly:

    I am blessed by God and those who do not have my blessings are cursed by God.

    The above is the basic premise of the Puritan Elect's conceit.

    It is, at best, clueless magical thinking.

    At its worst, it is the justification for all social inequity.

    It is, if one is a devotee of the teachings of Jesus Christ, an affront to the christian religion.
     
  7. tonystewart1
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    tonystewart1 VIP Member

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    You would not beileve the evangelical preachers I have heard abuse this verse:

    Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Matthew 7:17

    Your right that it does have a dark side but at the same time being rich or wealthy does not exlude you from service to the Lord or heaven. It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven but it is not impossible for a rich man to get to heaven just harder.
     
  8. Dr.Drock
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    Dr.Drock Senior Member

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    I read that as they might have life more abundantly, with abundance referring to the persons's life, not their possessions.
     
  9. ciel_perdu
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    ciel_perdu Rookie

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    John 10:10

    Tonystewart1 wrote:
    Perhaps we can deal with your first sentence. Who said anything about suffering?
    The same Jesus that said, ''I am come so they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly'', is the same Jesus that said, ''whosoever of you that does not forsake all that he owns, cannot be my disciple''. Either Jesus is contradicting himself, OR (which is more likely the case) you falsely assume that forsaking all you own will cause you suffering, and NOT that the fruit of such an action will lead to the very abundant life that Jesus was talking about. You see, everything Jesus commanded us to do is all for our own good, and all a part of the abundant life.


    Tonystewart1 wrote:
    Yes, he gave us the light, and he said he who follows me shall not walk in darkness but shall have the light of life. So, when he says that we need to do something or else we can't be his disciple, doesn't reason say that we should do it, if indeed we want to follow him, and partake of that light?


    Tonystewart1 wrote:
    Absolutely, Christians should be happy and content with the blessings God has given them.


    Tonystewart1 wrote:
    It can be very tempting to use the 'happy and content with blessings from God'' line of reasoning, to completely side-step what Jesus says about the need for ALL of us that want to be his disciple, i.e. to forsake all that we own.

    Tonystewart1 wrote:
    That's great, but it doesn't negate what Jesus commanded us to do.

    Tonystewart1 wrote:
    Now, seems to be that your taking the line of reasoning that says, ''I have forsaken all my possessions in my heart''. That's not what Jesus said to do. Can you see the difference? If I can make an analogy from the book of James. James said, ''show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works''. We could say, ''show me you have forsaken all that you own, without doing it, and I will show you I have forsaken all by actually doing it''.

    Tonystewart1 wrote:
    Did I say that money is the root of all evil? No. Which makes me wonder why from out of the blue, you felt the need to qualify this? That is to say, why the defense for money?
     
  10. tonystewart1
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    tonystewart1 VIP Member

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    The joy and happiness in a persons life in abundance. Not having to worry about paying your bills brings you more time to enjoy your life. We do not know why some Christians have more money than others but as long as they got it and put Christ foremost in their hearts while doing it and continue to give him praise for their blessings its not a sin.

    For some people renouncing all their worldly possesions and living in a cave brings them closer to God. That is their path and what they need to do. It is not a requirement for all Christians.
     

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