Egyptian (Muslim Brotherhood) Morsi to be overthrown?-Military Moves in to take over

[Osomir]

What makes you think I have any responsibility what so ever to take any of your comments serious and take time to answer them?

What makes you think you can actually have any word you can say on mid east while you are lacking of very basics of the region, like muslim brotherhood being banned in Syria?

What makes you think that any retarded logic you are putting up here deserves any attention all together?

And most important, what makes you think you are an 'expert' in anything in this life, really... pfffff

For being so dismissive of my analytical skills, I certainly called your inability to respond to my post correctly.

I knew enough about the subject to know when you wouldn't be able to defend your position any longer. Think about that for a minute or two.

 

[alpine]

What makes you think I have any responsibility what so ever to take any of your comments serious and take time to answer them?

What makes you think you can actually have any word you can say on mid east while you are lacking of very basics of the region, like muslim brotherhood being banned in Syria?

What makes you think that any retarded logic you are putting up here deserves any attention all together?

And most important, what makes you think you are an 'expert' in anything in this life, really... pfffff

For being so dismissive of my analytical skills, I certainly called your inability to respond to my post correctly.

I knew enough about the subject to know when you wouldn't be able to defend your position any longer. Think about that for a minute or two.

Your analytical skills....

Lets see what they are;

1. Just dismiss, rather than learn, the basic facts about the region
2. Disregard any input from any of the people from the region
3. Consider and calculate the religious polarization, without any knowledge of the religion what so ever
4. Completely fail to include any proof that is highly commonly available to you which might change your perspective, but rather stick with your good old own perspective that you created all by your own

Well my friend, if you call this a skill, yes indeed, you are highly skilled in just trying to sell whatever bullshit you have to tell us.

But the shit you are selling smells sooooo bad, sorry , nobody will buy it.

This video is from a series of videos called "Muslims Say Muslims Are Backwards". The idea I was following from the start. And this is an Egyptian free thinker talking about the mid east. His opinions are shared by the intellectual community. I may post their videos also, but of course, if you behave.

And strange enough, he says exactly this;

"There is 1. military, 2. islamists, feeding on us!" (remember 2 camps???)

Exactly what I have been trying to teach you. So now maybe you can learn from a well known Egyptian thinker and writer.

And I am hoping you will not object to a free thinker telling you about himself and claim you know him better than himself. That would be funny, innit...

So according to what he says, you are completely (but pay attention here---->) COMPLETELY WRONG !!!

I hope you get that part. If I did have any opinion about, lets say China, and if a Chinese intellectual did come to me and said that I was completely (but pay attanetion here---->) COMPLETELY WRONG, I think I would listen to him. But still, up to you of course.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHaFbHOBbo0]Arab self-criticism and self-doubt (3/3) - YouTube[/ame]

Oh, and I can hear you mumbling; "if there is no democracy, how can he talk like this"

Well, Egyptian mufti declared him heretic, which is a license to kill for anybody wishing to do so. At this point, it is his ability to avoid getting killed, rather than nobody willing to do the task...

 

[alpine]

What makes you think I have any responsibility what so ever to take any of your comments serious and take time to answer them?

What makes you think you can actually have any word you can say on mid east while you are lacking of very basics of the region, like muslim brotherhood being banned in Syria?

What makes you think that any retarded logic you are putting up here deserves any attention all together?

And most important, what makes you think you are an 'expert' in anything in this life, really... pfffff

For being so dismissive of my analytical skills, I certainly called your inability to respond to my post correctly.

I knew enough about the subject to know when you wouldn't be able to defend your position any longer. Think about that for a minute or two.

Latest from Tunisia;

One reason for the ongoing protest is the influence religion holds over politics and society. The divide between Islamists and secularists has grown, said German politician Joachim Hörster of Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union.
.....
But the secular and the Islamist camps are still struggling over the constitution which initially was to be ready by October 2012.

http://www.dw.de/political-deadlock-continues-in-tunisia/a-17008632

You are not aware of polarization, you are not aware the 2 camps hegemony over mid east region as a whole, you simply lack the knowledge of simple facts regarding mid east. And yet you claim to have "analytical skills"...

And I am the king of Scotland...

 

[Osomir]

I noticed that you still haven’t been able to respond to me previous post; but that aside, I’m rather surprised that you are still trying to support the use of a “two camp” model.

The world simply isn’t that simplistic. It isn’t simply a matter of Islamists vs. Secularists and such a generalized breakdown doesn’t correctly identify or explain the political dynamics of most Islamic countries.

You were the one who chose Syria as the best example of your argument and as a country in which to demonstrate your expertise; yet Syria doesn’t follow your two camp model at all. Syria isn’t a simple matter of Islamists vs. Secularists.

1.) For one thing both Assad’s Baathist Party and large elements of the Free Syrian Army are political secularists even if they themselves are religious. That alone causes your generalization to fracture. Your model fails to adequately identify the political and social grievances of much of the FSA when it comes to their conflict against the Assad administration. Simply dismissing them as Islamists is inaccurate even if there are some Islamist militias that support them and enjoin in joint operations with them.

2.) Your Islamists vs secularist model also fails to take into account sectarianism. Both sides have Islamists fighting for it. Assad has Hezbollah actively on the ground fighting in support of the regime and Hezbollah is very much so a Shia Islamist organization. Likewise you have a Shia theocracy (Iran) supporting Assad as well. It also ignores sectarian divides which have nothing to do with Islamism such as the “ethnic” cleansing of some Sunni villages along Syria’s coast. Lumping Islamists together and even secularists together ignores major sectarian splits between Sunnis and Shiites.

3.) Your two camp model further ignores ethnic nationalism within Syria. Primarily in the form of the Kurdish nationals who are fighting both Assad, and the rebels whether they be Al Nusra, other Islamists, or FSA secularists. If we followed your model then the northern battle lines within Syria wouldn’t make any sense.

4.) Your model also fails to recognize very large ideological difference among Islamist parties themselves even when they are both say Sunni or Shiite. Al Nusra has been fighting with other Islamist rebel parties over territorial control and has actively sought to kill leaders of the FSA as well. The inclusion of Al Qaeda and the ISI also brings other issues such as regional jihadism and state nationalism into conflict with global jihadi ideological goals. Even Salafi militias have been fighting with Al Nusra in Syria.

5.) Your Syrian model also ignores large and very historical differences between groups like Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood. Both Islamists, but both largely dislike each other and have large fundamental differences in the way they are organized and in their methodology. Al Qaeda fundamentally rejects involvement in the political system of states, and that’s what the Muslim Brotherhood is all about. Lumping them together under your model is simply intellectually negligent, and would lead to horrible policy formulation (and has historically).

6.) Finally, labeling Syria as a case of secularists vs. Islamists ignores Syria’s historical relationships and cooperation with Islamist groups (both Sunni and Shia) such as Hezbollah, Hamas, Amal, and even the ISI.

Syria isn’t the only place in which your model fails though. As I pointed out in my last post (which you still haven’t been able to respond to), your model completely fails to explain the situation in Somalia, Nigeria, Algeria, Egypt, differences across Al Qaeda and its affiliates itself, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, even Iran, etc.

Look, I don’t think you are dumb or anything, and these posts aren’t meant as an attack against your person or intellect in any way, but on this issue you are simply incorrect. The world simply isn’t that simple and ignoring the diversity that exists within it would be very detrimental towards our ability to combat Islamic radicalism and terrorism, and quite detrimental in terms of national security as well.

 

[alpine]

I noticed that you still haven’t been able to respond to me previous post; but that aside, I’m rather surprised that you are still trying to support the use of a “two camp” model.

The world simply isn’t that simplistic. It isn’t simply a matter of Islamists vs. Secularists and such a generalized breakdown doesn’t correctly identify or explain the political dynamics of most Islamic countries.

You were the one who chose Syria as the best example of your argument and as a country in which to demonstrate your expertise; yet Syria doesn’t follow your two camp model at all. Syria isn’t a simple matter of Islamists vs. Secularists.

1.) For one thing both Assad’s Baathist Party and large elements of the Free Syrian Army are political secularists even if they themselves are religious. That alone causes your generalization to fracture. Your model fails to adequately identify the political and social grievances of much of the FSA when it comes to their conflict against the Assad administration. Simply dismissing them as Islamists is inaccurate even if there are some Islamist militias that support them and enjoin in joint operations with them.

2.) Your Islamists vs secularist model also fails to take into account sectarianism. Both sides have Islamists fighting for it. Assad has Hezbollah actively on the ground fighting in support of the regime and Hezbollah is very much so a Shia Islamist organization. Likewise you have a Shia theocracy (Iran) supporting Assad as well. It also ignores sectarian divides which have nothing to do with Islamism such as the “ethnic” cleansing of some Sunni villages along Syria’s coast. Lumping Islamists together and even secularists together ignores major sectarian splits between Sunnis and Shiites.

3.) Your two camp model further ignores ethnic nationalism within Syria. Primarily in the form of the Kurdish nationals who are fighting both Assad, and the rebels whether they be Al Nusra, other Islamists, or FSA secularists. If we followed your model then the northern battle lines within Syria wouldn’t make any sense.

4.) Your model also fails to recognize very large ideological difference among Islamist parties themselves even when they are both say Sunni or Shiite. Al Nusra has been fighting with other Islamist rebel parties over territorial control and has actively sought to kill leaders of the FSA as well. The inclusion of Al Qaeda and the ISI also brings other issues such as regional jihadism and state nationalism into conflict with global jihadi ideological goals. Even Salafi militias have been fighting with Al Nusra in Syria.

5.) Your Syrian model also ignores large and very historical differences between groups like Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood. Both Islamists, but both largely dislike each other and have large fundamental differences in the way they are organized and in their methodology. Al Qaeda fundamentally rejects involvement in the political system of states, and that’s what the Muslim Brotherhood is all about. Lumping them together under your model is simply intellectually negligent, and would lead to horrible policy formulation (and has historically).

6.) Finally, labeling Syria as a case of secularists vs. Islamists ignores Syria’s historical relationships and cooperation with Islamist groups (both Sunni and Shia) such as Hezbollah, Hamas, Amal, and even the ISI.

Syria isn’t the only place in which your model fails though. As I pointed out in my last post (which you still haven’t been able to respond to), your model completely fails to explain the situation in Somalia, Nigeria, Algeria, Egypt, differences across Al Qaeda and its affiliates itself, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, even Iran, etc.

Look, I don’t think you are dumb or anything, and these posts aren’t meant as an attack against your person or intellect in any way, but on this issue you are simply incorrect. The world simply isn’t that simple and ignoring the diversity that exists within it would be very detrimental towards our ability to combat Islamic radicalism and terrorism, and quite detrimental in terms of national security as well.

Well, as you can see, this is not "my" model, it is middle eastern intellectuals claiming so, for their own societies. So this makes everything you are putting up here much more funnier, cause you think you know it all better than the people of the region themselves

But at the end, you are yet another over confident but at the same time over ignorant mid east expert that has no idea what he is talking about. Egyptians claim the otherwise, but you still insist on your couch grown theories.

You can keep growing anything you like on your couch, good for you as long as you can find people to buy it.

You keep bringing up these hizbulshit, al dick, el asshole groups into this subject, because you are just trying to make the picture fuzzier, since you failed to address the bigger picture. You failed to see tendencies of people when they see a voting station in front of them.

So everything you failed to understand along the whole argument as short; democracy is not possible in mid east, because people will be voting for anti-democracy islamist camp when there is any democracy available for them.

And again as you failed to see, it is not me saying this all, but mid east intellectuals themselves, regarding their own societies they have grown in.

If I were you, I would stop trying to be comedian by going against the intellectuals of a region, especially if you are trying to speculate about their own region, but try to learn from them.

Again. I am willing to teach you, if you behave of course...

 

[Osomir]

Well, as you can see, this is not "my" model, it is middle eastern intellectuals claiming so, for their own societies. So this makes everything you are putting up here much more funnier, cause you think you know it all better than the people of the region themselves

But at the end, you are yet another over confident but at the same time over ignorant mid east expert that has no idea what he is talking about. Egyptians claim the otherwise, but you still insist on your couch grown theories.

You can keep growing anything you like on your couch, good for you as long as you can find people to buy it.

You keep bringing up these hizbulshit, al dick, el asshole groups into this subject, because you are just trying to make the picture fuzzier, since you failed to address the bigger picture. You failed to see tendencies of people when they see a voting station in front of them.

So everything you failed to understand along the whole argument as short; democracy is not possible in mid east, because people will be voting for anti-democracy islamist camp when there is any democracy available for them.

And again as you failed to see, it is not me saying this all, but mid east intellectuals themselves, regarding their own societies they have grown in.

If I were you, I would stop trying to be comedian by going against the intellectuals of a region, especially if you are trying to speculate about their own region, but try to learn from them.

Again. I am willing to teach you, if you behave of course...

You're pretty cocky for someone who hasn't been able to counter a single one of my points.

 

[alpine]

Well, as you can see, this is not "my" model, it is middle eastern intellectuals claiming so, for their own societies. So this makes everything you are putting up here much more funnier, cause you think you know it all better than the people of the region themselves

But at the end, you are yet another over confident but at the same time over ignorant mid east expert that has no idea what he is talking about. Egyptians claim the otherwise, but you still insist on your couch grown theories.

You can keep growing anything you like on your couch, good for you as long as you can find people to buy it.

You keep bringing up these hizbulshit, al dick, el asshole groups into this subject, because you are just trying to make the picture fuzzier, since you failed to address the bigger picture. You failed to see tendencies of people when they see a voting station in front of them.

So everything you failed to understand along the whole argument as short; democracy is not possible in mid east, because people will be voting for anti-democracy islamist camp when there is any democracy available for them.

And again as you failed to see, it is not me saying this all, but mid east intellectuals themselves, regarding their own societies they have grown in.

If I were you, I would stop trying to be comedian by going against the intellectuals of a region, especially if you are trying to speculate about their own region, but try to learn from them.

Again. I am willing to teach you, if you behave of course...

You're pretty cocky for someone who hasn't been able to counter a single one of my points.

Sorry but I can not take anyone into serious account while they are claiming "Al Nusra" being an islamist party (?!)

Again, sorry to say this, but you clearly have no idea what you are saying...

 

[Osomir]

Let me know when you are able to actually address any of my points there champ

 

[Osomir]

It's fairly obvious that you are simply insecure in your arguing and thus afraid to engage in any sort of meaningful conversation. If my points were as off as you suggest they are then it wouldn't take you much effort to counter them. The fact that you keep coming back to this thread to insit that you are right without being able to support yourself is pretty telling.

 

[alpine]

Let me know when you are able to actually address any of my points there champ

You think you are making any points here???

Well, you made one point clear to all of us tho, I should give you that. The point that you have no idea about what you are talking about, because Al Nusra is clearly NOT an islamist party.

First you should just forget everything (you think) you know about the region, and start from simple facts like these below you failed to know before I pointed them out to you;

1. Muslim Brotherhood is (and was) banned in Syria for years now
2. Not every terrorist mob is an islamist party
3......
4......
.
.
.(and many more you failed over and over again on the previous pages)

Than you may come over for another class.

 

[alpine]

It's fairly obvious that you are simply insecure in your arguing and thus afraid to engage in any sort of meaningful conversation. If my points were as off as you suggest they are then it wouldn't take you much effort to counter them. The fact that you keep coming back to this thread to insit that you are right without being able to support yourself is pretty telling.

Dude, you are asking me "Why Al Nusra islamist party is fighting against this, against that".

First of all learn simple facts, Al Nusra is no islamist party.

The points you are making doesn't make sense what so ever.

It is like asking; why 2 x 2 = 5

It simply doesn't , don't you understand?

I am really curious how long you will keep this state of denial that you simply not only lack any knowledge but on top have many wrong ones, on this subject. Reaaaalllllyyy curious....

 

[Osomir]

It's fairly obvious that you are simply insecure in your arguing and thus afraid to engage in any sort of meaningful conversation. If my points were as off as you suggest they are then it wouldn't take you much effort to counter them. The fact that you keep coming back to this thread to insit that you are right without being able to support yourself is pretty telling.

Dude, you are asking me "Why Al Nusra islamist party is fighting against this, against that".

First of all learn simple facts, Al Nusra is no islamist party.

The points you are making doesn't make sense what so ever.

It is like asking; why 2 x 2 = 5

It simply doesn't , don't you understand?

I am really curious how long you will keep this state of denial that you simply not only lack any knowledge but on top have many wrong ones, on this subject. Reaaaalllllyyy curious....

Lol tell us all again about how the Muslim Brotherhood used to rule in Egypt in the 80s

 

[Osomir]

As a side note in case English is your second language, 'parties' can and often does act simply as a term for a grouping of people. my use of it with the rebel groups in no way suggest a political party as you seem to be under the impression of (hence why I didn't capitalize it and treat it as a proper noun). It's pretty sad (and pretty telling) if the only way you can respond to anything of mine is if you make up stances for me that I don't possess.