M1 Tanks To Ukraine in 2024, The Key Fight Will Be Over By Then!

JimofPennsylvan

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Jun 6, 2007
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This past Thursday CNN had an update special on the Ukrainian War. What point I found disturbing was Jake Sullivan's, President Biden's National Security Advisor, statement where he said the Ukraine Military needs the Leopard II tanks from European countries now but it does not need the M1 Abrams tanks from America now. Jake Sullivan is generally on the ball about national security matters but he really shot a blank with that thinking I hope this view isn't shaping American Government policy. As President Zelensky of Ukraine recently said "speed (in supplying munitions and weapons to Ukraine) is life (Ukrainian soldiers)". Any knowledgeable person knows that Russia is going to conduct a major offensive in the war in Ukraine this year it will involve the recent Russian draftees so the number of Russian soldiers involved will be two to three hundred thousand and it will be the type of battles seen recently in Soledar and Bakhmut and further months back in the cities and towns of Luhansk province in Eastern Ukraine, World War I type of battles where artillery and troops are thrown at the front lines and Ukrainian casualty rates rise to the level of one hundred dead and wounded per day! The only way to stop this is for the Ukraine military to open up counterattack fronts where they break through the Russian lines and cut their supply lines so Russian forces have to withdrawal; the Ukrainians did this in Izyum in the north and Kherson in the south. The Ukrainians need mechanized units to accomplish this; the U.S. is providing 59 Bradley Fighting Vehicles (armored troop carriers that have a 25 millimeter turret gun and anti-tank missiles) and 90 Stryker vehicles (armored troop carriers) which will greatly help. But on the vital tank question the U.S. has promised to send 31 M1 Abram tanks to Ukraine which would make a meaningful distance on the battlefield; however, there is a big question on when will the Ukrainians get these tanks. The challenge is that by law the U.S. cannot give a foreign country the M1 tank with depleted uranium armor which is especially strong against enemy munitions and all M1 tanks in active service in the U.S. military have depleted uranium armor so President Biden cannot send the Ukrainians any of these M1 tanks. The logical option which the Administration seems to be leaning towards is to have brand new tanks made for Ukraine which would take if the Ukrainians are lucky one to two years because there is only one manufacturer of this tank and such is the limits of their production capacity. Many people in the know are predicting this over a year time frame as a matter of fact Representative Mike Quigley just hours ago on CNN said as much. There is another option America has around 2500 to 3500 M1 tanks in storage most of them are older vintage M1 tanks many are the M1A1 model not the M1A2 model in active use by the U.S. military today most of the M1s in storage aren't made of Depleted Uranium armor so they would be eligible for delivery to Ukraine. Granted their older models so they don't have all the bells and whistles of the A2 model but they are good tanks America used them with great effectiveness in the first Gulf War where America and her allies drove Saddam Hussein's army out of Kuwait. Of course these M1 tanks have been in storage for years so they would need a tune-up and probably some other minor work. But the parts should be available because America in the past sold these older versions of the M1 to some of our allies and they are still in use today so replacement parts must be available somewhere! The administration should use the President's draw down authority and take 31 of the M1A1 tanks in storage make them operable and give them to the Ukraine military so Ukraine can get these tanks by this summer and use them in their counter offensive operations to be conducted this summer!

Ukrainian's top general, General Valery Zaluzhny, said in August that nearly 9000 Ukrainian soldiers were killed in this war so far and if your consider all the heavy fighting in the Donbas over the past five months the death toll for Ukrainian soldiers must be at least 10,000 and since its a heavy artillery war the severe casualty rate is probably three times the death rate which makes the casualty figure 30000. If the U.S. and the Free World doesn't give the Ukrainian the ability to meaningfully counterattack so they are stuck having to go toe to toe against this slated Russian offensive, the Ukrainians could be looking at another loss of 40,000 soldiers over the next twelve months. Ukraine only had a 200,000 person army when the war began the loss of 80000 experienced soldiers to such an army over the first two years of a war will be extremely damaging to the fighting ability of the Ukrainian army in this war. If the West allows Ukraine to incur this type of loss because it dragged its feet providing weapon systems this will prolong the war as it will take time for Ukraine to replace this experience and quality of soldier in its ranks that this casualty rate wrought on Ukraine. Two companies of tanks, 31 tanks, will make a difference in a Ukraine counterattacking force such a force has to travel many miles behind enemy lines so it largely has to defend and accomplish its mission on its own so 31 Abrahm artillery guns can take out a lot of targets and make a difference. America is a great country, a superpower, it has to do better than having a delivery date for M1 tanks to Ukraine than 2024!
 
This past Thursday CNN had an update special on the Ukrainian War. What point I found disturbing was Jake Sullivan's, President Biden's National Security Advisor, statement where he said the Ukraine Military needs the Leopard II tanks from European countries now but it does not need the M1 Abrams tanks from America now. Jake Sullivan is generally on the ball about national security matters but he really shot a blank with that thinking I hope this view isn't shaping American Government policy. As President Zelensky of Ukraine recently said "speed (in supplying munitions and weapons to Ukraine) is life (Ukrainian soldiers)". Any knowledgeable person knows that Russia is going to conduct a major offensive in the war in Ukraine this year it will involve the recent Russian draftees so the number of Russian soldiers involved will be two to three hundred thousand and it will be the type of battles seen recently in Soledar and Bakhmut and further months back in the cities and towns of Luhansk province in Eastern Ukraine, World War I type of battles where artillery and troops are thrown at the front lines and Ukrainian casualty rates rise to the level of one hundred dead and wounded per day! The only way to stop this is for the Ukraine military to open up counterattack fronts where they break through the Russian lines and cut their supply lines so Russian forces have to withdrawal; the Ukrainians did this in Izyum in the north and Kherson in the south. The Ukrainians need mechanized units to accomplish this; the U.S. is providing 59 Bradley Fighting Vehicles (armored troop carriers that have a 25 millimeter turret gun and anti-tank missiles) and 90 Stryker vehicles (armored troop carriers) which will greatly help. But on the vital tank question the U.S. has promised to send 31 M1 Abram tanks to Ukraine which would make a meaningful distance on the battlefield; however, there is a big question on when will the Ukrainians get these tanks. The challenge is that by law the U.S. cannot give a foreign country the M1 tank with depleted uranium armor which is especially strong against enemy munitions and all M1 tanks in active service in the U.S. military have depleted uranium armor so President Biden cannot send the Ukrainians any of these M1 tanks. The logical option which the Administration seems to be leaning towards is to have brand new tanks made for Ukraine which would take if the Ukrainians are lucky one to two years because there is only one manufacturer of this tank and such is the limits of their production capacity. Many people in the know are predicting this over a year time frame as a matter of fact Representative Mike Quigley just hours ago on CNN said as much. There is another option America has around 2500 to 3500 M1 tanks in storage most of them are older vintage M1 tanks many are the M1A1 model not the M1A2 model in active use by the U.S. military today most of the M1s in storage aren't made of Depleted Uranium armor so they would be eligible for delivery to Ukraine. Granted their older models so they don't have all the bells and whistles of the A2 model but they are good tanks America used them with great effectiveness in the first Gulf War where America and her allies drove Saddam Hussein's army out of Kuwait. Of course these M1 tanks have been in storage for years so they would need a tune-up and probably some other minor work. But the parts should be available because America in the past sold these older versions of the M1 to some of our allies and they are still in use today so replacement parts must be available somewhere! The administration should use the President's draw down authority and take 31 of the M1A1 tanks in storage make them operable and give them to the Ukraine military so Ukraine can get these tanks by this summer and use them in their counter offensive operations to be conducted this summer!

Ukrainian's top general, General Valery Zaluzhny, said in August that nearly 9000 Ukrainian soldiers were killed in this war so far and if your consider all the heavy fighting in the Donbas over the past five months the death toll for Ukrainian soldiers must be at least 10,000 and since its a heavy artillery war the severe casualty rate is probably three times the death rate which makes the casualty figure 30000. If the U.S. and the Free World doesn't give the Ukrainian the ability to meaningfully counterattack so they are stuck having to go toe to toe against this slated Russian offensive, the Ukrainians could be looking at another loss of 40,000 soldiers over the next twelve months. Ukraine only had a 200,000 person army when the war began the loss of 80000 experienced soldiers to such an army over the first two years of a war will be extremely damaging to the fighting ability of the Ukrainian army in this war. If the West allows Ukraine to incur this type of loss because it dragged its feet providing weapon systems this will prolong the war as it will take time for Ukraine to replace this experience and quality of soldier in its ranks that this casualty rate wrought on Ukraine. Two companies of tanks, 31 tanks, will make a difference in a Ukraine counterattacking force such a force has to travel many miles behind enemy lines so it largely has to defend and accomplish its mission on its own so 31 Abrahm artillery guns can take out a lot of targets and make a difference. America is a great country, a superpower, it has to do better than having a delivery date for M1 tanks to Ukraine than 2024!
Ritter says they will be destroyed before they can do anything for the Ukraine, on account of Russia having complete air superiority.

I'm no military expert but it sounds reasonable to believe that?
 
This past Thursday CNN had an update special on the Ukrainian War. What point I found disturbing was Jake Sullivan's, President Biden's National Security Advisor, statement where he said the Ukraine Military needs the Leopard II tanks from European countries now but it does not need the M1 Abrams tanks from America now. Jake Sullivan is generally on the ball about national security matters but he really shot a blank with that thinking I hope this view isn't shaping American Government policy. As President Zelensky of Ukraine recently said "speed (in supplying munitions and weapons to Ukraine) is life (Ukrainian soldiers)". Any knowledgeable person knows that Russia is going to conduct a major offensive in the war in Ukraine this year it will involve the recent Russian draftees so the number of Russian soldiers involved will be two to three hundred thousand and it will be the type of battles seen recently in Soledar and Bakhmut and further months back in the cities and towns of Luhansk province in Eastern Ukraine, World War I type of battles where artillery and troops are thrown at the front lines and Ukrainian casualty rates rise to the level of one hundred dead and wounded per day! The only way to stop this is for the Ukraine military to open up counterattack fronts where they break through the Russian lines and cut their supply lines so Russian forces have to withdrawal; the Ukrainians did this in Izyum in the north and Kherson in the south. The Ukrainians need mechanized units to accomplish this; the U.S. is providing 59 Bradley Fighting Vehicles (armored troop carriers that have a 25 millimeter turret gun and anti-tank missiles) and 90 Stryker vehicles (armored troop carriers) which will greatly help. But on the vital tank question the U.S. has promised to send 31 M1 Abram tanks to Ukraine which would make a meaningful distance on the battlefield; however, there is a big question on when will the Ukrainians get these tanks. The challenge is that by law the U.S. cannot give a foreign country the M1 tank with depleted uranium armor which is especially strong against enemy munitions and all M1 tanks in active service in the U.S. military have depleted uranium armor so President Biden cannot send the Ukrainians any of these M1 tanks. The logical option which the Administration seems to be leaning towards is to have brand new tanks made for Ukraine which would take if the Ukrainians are lucky one to two years because there is only one manufacturer of this tank and such is the limits of their production capacity. Many people in the know are predicting this over a year time frame as a matter of fact Representative Mike Quigley just hours ago on CNN said as much. There is another option America has around 2500 to 3500 M1 tanks in storage most of them are older vintage M1 tanks many are the M1A1 model not the M1A2 model in active use by the U.S. military today most of the M1s in storage aren't made of Depleted Uranium armor so they would be eligible for delivery to Ukraine. Granted their older models so they don't have all the bells and whistles of the A2 model but they are good tanks America used them with great effectiveness in the first Gulf War where America and her allies drove Saddam Hussein's army out of Kuwait. Of course these M1 tanks have been in storage for years so they would need a tune-up and probably some other minor work. But the parts should be available because America in the past sold these older versions of the M1 to some of our allies and they are still in use today so replacement parts must be available somewhere! The administration should use the President's draw down authority and take 31 of the M1A1 tanks in storage make them operable and give them to the Ukraine military so Ukraine can get these tanks by this summer and use them in their counter offensive operations to be conducted this summer!

Ukrainian's top general, General Valery Zaluzhny, said in August that nearly 9000 Ukrainian soldiers were killed in this war so far and if your consider all the heavy fighting in the Donbas over the past five months the death toll for Ukrainian soldiers must be at least 10,000 and since its a heavy artillery war the severe casualty rate is probably three times the death rate which makes the casualty figure 30000. If the U.S. and the Free World doesn't give the Ukrainian the ability to meaningfully counterattack so they are stuck having to go toe to toe against this slated Russian offensive, the Ukrainians could be looking at another loss of 40,000 soldiers over the next twelve months. Ukraine only had a 200,000 person army when the war began the loss of 80000 experienced soldiers to such an army over the first two years of a war will be extremely damaging to the fighting ability of the Ukrainian army in this war. If the West allows Ukraine to incur this type of loss because it dragged its feet providing weapon systems this will prolong the war as it will take time for Ukraine to replace this experience and quality of soldier in its ranks that this casualty rate wrought on Ukraine. Two companies of tanks, 31 tanks, will make a difference in a Ukraine counterattacking force such a force has to travel many miles behind enemy lines so it largely has to defend and accomplish its mission on its own so 31 Abrahm artillery guns can take out a lot of targets and make a difference. America is a great country, a superpower, it has to do better than having a delivery date for M1 tanks to Ukraine than 2024!
Try to remember that paragraphs are your friend. ... :cool:
https://www.masterclass.com/articles/how-to-write-a-perfect-paragraph
 
Ritter says they will be destroyed before they can do anything for the Ukraine, on account of Russia having complete air superiority.

I'm no military expert but it sounds reasonable to believe that?
The first shipment of Leopard tanks arrived from Poland today and they weren't destroyed. Why was that?
 
This past Thursday CNN had an update special on the Ukrainian War. What point I found disturbing was Jake Sullivan's, President Biden's National Security Advisor, statement where he said the Ukraine Military needs the Leopard II tanks from European countries now but it does not need the M1 Abrams tanks from America now. Jake Sullivan is generally on the ball about national security matters but he really shot a blank with that thinking I hope this view isn't shaping American Government policy. As President Zelensky of Ukraine recently said "speed (in supplying munitions and weapons to Ukraine) is life (Ukrainian soldiers)". Any knowledgeable person knows that Russia is going to conduct a major offensive in the war in Ukraine this year it will involve the recent Russian draftees so the number of Russian soldiers involved will be two to three hundred thousand and it will be the type of battles seen recently in Soledar and Bakhmut and further months back in the cities and towns of Luhansk province in Eastern Ukraine, World War I type of battles where artillery and troops are thrown at the front lines and Ukrainian casualty rates rise to the level of one hundred dead and wounded per day! The only way to stop this is for the Ukraine military to open up counterattack fronts where they break through the Russian lines and cut their supply lines so Russian forces have to withdrawal; the Ukrainians did this in Izyum in the north and Kherson in the south. The Ukrainians need mechanized units to accomplish this; the U.S. is providing 59 Bradley Fighting Vehicles (armored troop carriers that have a 25 millimeter turret gun and anti-tank missiles) and 90 Stryker vehicles (armored troop carriers) which will greatly help. But on the vital tank question the U.S. has promised to send 31 M1 Abram tanks to Ukraine which would make a meaningful distance on the battlefield; however, there is a big question on when will the Ukrainians get these tanks. The challenge is that by law the U.S. cannot give a foreign country the M1 tank with depleted uranium armor which is especially strong against enemy munitions and all M1 tanks in active service in the U.S. military have depleted uranium armor so President Biden cannot send the Ukrainians any of these M1 tanks. The logical option which the Administration seems to be leaning towards is to have brand new tanks made for Ukraine which would take if the Ukrainians are lucky one to two years because there is only one manufacturer of this tank and such is the limits of their production capacity. Many people in the know are predicting this over a year time frame as a matter of fact Representative Mike Quigley just hours ago on CNN said as much. There is another option America has around 2500 to 3500 M1 tanks in storage most of them are older vintage M1 tanks many are the M1A1 model not the M1A2 model in active use by the U.S. military today most of the M1s in storage aren't made of Depleted Uranium armor so they would be eligible for delivery to Ukraine. Granted their older models so they don't have all the bells and whistles of the A2 model but they are good tanks America used them with great effectiveness in the first Gulf War where America and her allies drove Saddam Hussein's army out of Kuwait. Of course these M1 tanks have been in storage for years so they would need a tune-up and probably some other minor work. But the parts should be available because America in the past sold these older versions of the M1 to some of our allies and they are still in use today so replacement parts must be available somewhere! The administration should use the President's draw down authority and take 31 of the M1A1 tanks in storage make them operable and give them to the Ukraine military so Ukraine can get these tanks by this summer and use them in their counter offensive operations to be conducted this summer!

Ukrainian's top general, General Valery Zaluzhny, said in August that nearly 9000 Ukrainian soldiers were killed in this war so far and if your consider all the heavy fighting in the Donbas over the past five months the death toll for Ukrainian soldiers must be at least 10,000 and since its a heavy artillery war the severe casualty rate is probably three times the death rate which makes the casualty figure 30000. If the U.S. and the Free World doesn't give the Ukrainian the ability to meaningfully counterattack so they are stuck having to go toe to toe against this slated Russian offensive, the Ukrainians could be looking at another loss of 40,000 soldiers over the next twelve months. Ukraine only had a 200,000 person army when the war began the loss of 80000 experienced soldiers to such an army over the first two years of a war will be extremely damaging to the fighting ability of the Ukrainian army in this war. If the West allows Ukraine to incur this type of loss because it dragged its feet providing weapon systems this will prolong the war as it will take time for Ukraine to replace this experience and quality of soldier in its ranks that this casualty rate wrought on Ukraine. Two companies of tanks, 31 tanks, will make a difference in a Ukraine counterattacking force such a force has to travel many miles behind enemy lines so it largely has to defend and accomplish its mission on its own so 31 Abrahm artillery guns can take out a lot of targets and make a difference. America is a great country, a superpower, it has to do better than having a delivery date for M1 tanks to Ukraine than 2024!
More paragraphs if you want people to read your posts.
 
The first shipment of Leopard tanks arrived from Poland today and they weren't destroyed. Why was that?
I don't know for sure that Ritter is right in what he said, but I think he was talking about the tanks when they went into a battle. He also said that the number of tanks in all being sent to the Ukraine would be adequate to cover about a three kilometer front of the two or three hundred kilometer front.

I think we need an expert?
 
The first shipment of Leopard tanks arrived from Poland today and they weren't destroyed. Why was that?
The Leopard tanks will all be destroyed within a week or two.
Russian jet fighters have total dominance of the skies over Ukraine, and can attack anything they want, when they want.
Plus, have their own satellite GPS system to guide missiles to the Leopard tanks.
 
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I don't know for sure that Ritter is right in what he said, but I think he was talking about the tanks when they went into a battle. He also said that the number of tanks in all being sent to the Ukraine would be adequate to cover about a three kilometer front of the two or three hundred kilometer front.

I think we need an expert?

So you no longer consider Ritter an expert?

How about you other favorite "expert," MacGregor? He had said Russia was sending forces into Belarus to seal Ukraine's western border so no more tanks or artillery could be supplied to Ukraine. Could he have been mistaken? Other "experts" on this board had also said it would take months of training before Ukrainians would be able to use these western tanks, and just a few weeks later, the training has been completed and the tanks are ready to go. How is that possible?

Other experts say Russia has lost about half of its tanks since the start of the war.
 
So you no longer consider Ritter an expert?

How about you other favorite "expert," MacGregor? He had said Russia was sending forces into Belarus to seal Ukraine's western border so no more tanks or artillery could be supplied to Ukraine. Could he have been mistaken? Other "experts" on this board had also said it would take months of training before Ukrainians would be able to use these western tanks, and just a few weeks later, the training has been completed and the tanks are ready to go. How is that possible?

Other experts say Russia has lost about half of its tanks since the start of the war.
I'm not the expert, but I suspect that Ritter is one?
I hadn't heard of MacGregor saying that but I might have missed a lot of what he said previous to a month ago?

Do you know how many tanks Russia has remaining, and how many they've lost?


Is that truth or propaganda?
 
Other "experts" on this board had also said it would take months of training before Ukrainians would be able to use these western tanks, and just a few weeks later, the training has been completed and the tanks are ready to go. How is that possible?
You are somewhat confused as usual.
Leopard tanks are similar to every other tank.
Thus, the training wasn't going to take very long.
It was the Abrams tank the was going to require long term training.
Turbine engine is unique and requires special knowledge and tools for maintenance and repair.
Specialized type of gun site, aiming electronics, and ammunition.
Uses jet fuel not diesel. So it requires its own support vehicles.
So now you know..... :cool:
 
I'm not the expert, but I suspect that Ritter is one?
I hadn't heard of MacGregor saying that but I might have missed a lot of what he said previous to a month ago?

Do you know how many tanks Russia has remaining, and how many they've lost?


Is that truth or propaganda?
All the numbers are estimates, but from what I have read, Russia had about 3,000 tanks at the beginning of the war, only 200 of which were T-90's, and it has lost between a third to half of these.
 
Uses jet fuel not diesel. So it requires its own support vehicles.
The Honeywell AGT1500 gas turbine in the M1A1/2 is a multi-fuel engine that will run on gasoline, diesel, kerosene or any aviation fuel, or practically anything else that burns. For years we ran them on DF2 which is #2 Diesel, or JP4 which is 50/50 gasoline and JetA (kerosene).

The US Army phased out everything that ran on gasoline and went to a standardized fuel, now everything runs on JP8 which is JetA with some additives like corrosion inhibitors.

M1's will run just fine on any fuel that a T-72 or T-80 or Leo2 uses.
 
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The Leopard tanks will all be destroyed within a week or two.
Russian jet fighters have total dominance of the skies over Ukraine, and can attack anything they want, when they want.
Plus, have their own satellite GPS system to guide missiles to the Leopard tanks.

Russian AT missiles too. It's fucking stupid to send arms to Ukraine. Force them to settle
 
The Honeywell AGT1500 gas turbine in the M1A1/2 is a multi-fuel engine that will run on gasoline, diesel, kerosene or any aviation fuel, or practically anything else that burns. For years we ran them on DF2 which is #2 Diesel, or JP4 which is 50/50 gasoline and JetA (kerosene).
True, but you have to become proficient in knowing how to make adjustments and fuel filter changes to run the various types of fuel to get optimum performance.
 
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The Leopard tanks will all be destroyed within a week or two.
Russian jet fighters have total dominance of the skies over Ukraine, and can attack anything they want, when they want.
Plus, have their own satellite GPS system to guide missiles to the Leopard tanks.
Tell me, guru, that will be before of after Russian sweeping winter offensive?
 
How about you other favorite "expert," MacGregor? He had said Russia was sending forces into Belarus to seal Ukraine's western border so no more tanks or artillery could be supplied to Ukraine.
Once again, you are totally confused.
Try looking at a map, Belarus is located on Ukraine's "northern border" not its western border.
Also, Belarus is a close ally with Russia and wouldn't be sending military equipment to the Ukrainian forces.
Poland shares the western border with Ukraine and is the country allowing the foreign tanks and other vehicles to cross over into Ukraine.
 
Once again, you are totally confused.
Try looking at a map, Belarus is located on Ukraine's "northern border" not its western border.
Also, Belarus is a close ally with Russia and wouldn't be sending military equipment to the Ukrainian forces.
Poland shares the western border with Ukraine and is the country allowing the foreign tanks and other vehicles to cross over into Ukraine.
Because in the last summer there were narratives that Russia prepared offensive from Belarus' Brest oblast southward, in Lutsk-Lvov direction. Main goal - to cut Western supply routes through Poland. Try to catch up.
 
True, but you have to become proficient in knowing how to make adjustments and fuel filter changes to run the various types of fuel to get optimum performance.
These engines are not manually tuned. They have a digital electronic control unit. There is a minimum btu/lb rating, the ECU does the rest.

All tanks need extensive maintenance The LEO2's will be the staple western MBT in Ukraine because there are more available, and more repair depots for LEO's in Europe. They will be rotated in and out just like they do with the artillery.
 
Because in the last summer there were narratives that Russia prepared offensive from Belarus' Brest oblast southward, in Lutsk-Lvov direction.
yes, first largest in Europe swamps than hardcore Nationalistic, Uniat population , sounds like a suicide mission to me :cool:
 

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