CDZ Does the Texas church shooting change the gun debate? 6 seconds to stop the attacker....

[evenflow1969]

It is there for the world to see.....a shooter is stopped in 6 seconds by an armed citizen....lives are lost, but many more lives are saved...how many?

In Russia, a shooter with a 5 shot, pump action shotgun killed 20 people and injured 70 with the police station 300 meters away from the location.

In the Texas Church shooting, a shooter with a 5 shot, pump action shotgun killed two, but in the 6 seconds he revealed himself, he was dead, and stopped by an armed citizen.

Can you honestly say that this doesn't create doubt if you are an anti-gun supporter....?

Unfortunately it will not change the debate. People are hopelessly entrenched on both sides of this argument as well as others. People today would rather win or appear to win an argument and ignore out comes just to win an original argument. So the debate will rage on endlessly.

 

[2aguy]

I often wonder why we haven't made murder illegal yet.......I mean...shouldn't we do that to stop people from killing each other?

So your point is that, since some people will break the law, we shouldn't have laws?

Why do you guys always use that fake talking point? What we have in this country is a political party, the democrat party, that does everything it can to let repeat gun offenders out of jail on bond, or no bond, and out of prison on short sentences....sentences they change to make as short as possible......then the repeat gun offender goes out, gets an illegal gun and shoots people......

Here is my solution to both regular gun criminals and mass pubic shooters....and they actually work....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....
Mass shooters

1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....
What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

I don't think I have any major issues with your plan. Has it ever been implemented anywhere in the US?

Nope.

In fact, the democrat party does the exact opposite....which is why Chicago, Balitmore, St. Louis, New Orleans, D.C. and the other cities they completely control have such high gun murder and gun crime rates.........they all have revolving door policies for violent repeat gun offenders.

It has, however, been implemented in Japan...against their Yakuza...it is where I came to understand the solution to gun crime......locking up actual gun criminals. The Yakuza would use guns, grenades to conduct their wars against each other....now, they have long prison sentences for merely having a gun....and in Japan, their conviction rate is over 95%.....so if you are caught you are doing time.......so now, with long prison sentences, their criminals stopped using guns in all but the rarest of situations.....

I think you're only giving us a part of the Japanese solution:

If Japanese people want to own a gun, they must attend an all-day class, pass a written test, and achieve at least 95% accuracy during a shooting-range test. Then they have to pass a mental-health evaluation, which takes place at a hospital, and pass a background check, in which the government digs into their criminal record and interviews friends and family. They can only buy shotguns and air rifles — no handguns — and every three years they must retake the class and initial exam.​

No...that isn't the issue.....since the Yakuza don't follow those laws especially for their machine guns and grenades.

Do you guys really think those laws stop violent criminals from getting guns if they want them?

And normal people do not misuse guns even without those laws....as we find here in the U.S.....our crime rate isn't driven by normal gun owners but by people who are already banned from owning guns.

Japan...explain how any of those regulations stop this...

The Great Japanese Gang Wars



The season for pineapples (yakuza slang for hand grenades) may finally be over. Jake Adelstein and Nathalie-Kyoko Stucky on the bloody, seven-year battle between the Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai.



In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members).

----
---
The Gangs That Couldn’t Shoot Straight
The Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai are Kyushu-based yakuza gangs, once part of the same faction founded in 1971 in Kurume, Fukuoka Prefecture, by Isoji Koga. When the second generation Dojin-kai boss Seijiro Matsuo retired in May 2006, there was a fight over succession, and the group split into two factions, sparking a bloody gang war—where escalation seemed a matter of course.

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men.
-----
In May, a 9-year-old child found a hand grenade in a rice field in Iizuka, Fukuoka Prefecture, and took it home, to the astonishment of his father, who handed it over to the local police. According to the police, there were no yakuza headquarters where the grenade was found.

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

 

[2aguy]

[

So your point is that, since some people will break the law, we shouldn't have laws?

The point was that gun control laws don't stop criminals from having and using firearms, only taking away Constitutional Liberty away from American citizens.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

They have fewer gun deaths because their criminals don't use their illegal guns to commit murder as often or as easily as criminals in U.S. cities that are controlled by the democrat party....

Access to guns in those countries...

Britain..

Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK


Police and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

“Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.


Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:

“We’re doing a lot to fight back against it,” Brough said, adding that compared to other European countries, the availability in the UK was relatively lower.
==========

France...

ris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.


===============
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.

Sweden.....

IN DEPTH: What's behind the rise in gang violence across Sweden?

The weapon of choice for gangs are Kalashnikov automatic rifles. Imported from the Balkans, they are available for between 2,500 and 3,500 euros (around $2,800 to $3,950), although they become "more expensive in the event of an open conflict," according to Appelgren.
-------

Honour, debts, and prestige are serving as the pretext for an increasing number of deadly shootings that challenge the ideals of equality and social harmony on which modern Sweden was built.
-----

Last year more than 300 shootings resulted in 45 deaths and 135 injuries in Sweden.

While the overall homicide rate remains one of the lowest in the world, with one per 100,000 inhabitants according to police statistics, deadly shootings have been steadily rising and last year reached record levels. 2019 is also on track to create another unwanted record. In Stockholm the first six months of the year have seen as many killings as the whole of 2018.

Japan....

The Great Japanese Gang Wars



The season for pineapples (yakuza slang for hand grenades) may finally be over. Jake Adelstein and Nathalie-Kyoko Stucky on the bloody, seven-year battle between the Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai.



In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members).

----
---
The Gangs That Couldn’t Shoot Straight
The Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai are Kyushu-based yakuza gangs, once part of the same faction founded in 1971 in Kurume, Fukuoka Prefecture, by Isoji Koga. When the second generation Dojin-kai boss Seijiro Matsuo retired in May 2006, there was a fight over succession, and the group split into two factions, sparking a bloody gang war—where escalation seemed a matter of course. It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men.
-----
In May, a 9-year-old child found a hand grenade in a rice field in Iizuka, Fukuoka Prefecture, and took it home, to the astonishment of his father, who handed it over to the local police. According to the police, there were no yakuza headquarters where the grenade was found.

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.
----

 

[2aguy]

[

So your point is that, since some people will break the law, we shouldn't have laws?

The point was that gun control laws don't stop criminals from having and using firearms, only taking away Constitutional Liberty away from American citizens.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

Other countries don't have millions of inner city ghetto assholes that commit most of the gun crimes in the US.

If we shipped our Negroes and Illegals over to any other country their gun crime would sky rocket.

Short of shipping our 'Negroes and Illegals' over to another country, what's your solution? Give those 'Negroes and Illegals' more guns?

You have seen my solution....and it works. Nothing the anti-gunners suggest actually work...they simply ratchet down on normal gun owners with red tape, taxes, fees and arbitrary laws that only increase legal peril to normal people....

 

[Flash]

The Democrats need to get control of their Negro voting block.

Excellent idea. How do you suggest they do that?

If the Democrats can get the Negroes to the voting booth to keep them in power then they should be able to figure out a way to keep the Negroes from shooting themselves.

And I was so sure you were going to say whips and chains. At least that would have been something.

Actually 2aguy gave an excellent list of initiatives to curtail gun violence a few posts back. Did you even bother to read it?

 

[2aguy]

[

So your point is that, since some people will break the law, we shouldn't have laws?

The point was that gun control laws don't stop criminals from having and using firearms, only taking away Constitutional Liberty away from American citizens.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

In 2017, six-in-ten gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (23,854), while 37% were murders (14,542), according to the CDC. The remainder were unintentional (486), involved law enforcement (553) or had undetermined circumstances (338).

How many used 'illegal' guns? Don't know and don't care. Every victim is equally dead.

You do realize that as more Americans own and carry guns...our gun crime rate went down 75%.....how do you explain that?

You do realize that as more Americans own and carry guns our gun murder rate went down 49%....how do you explain that?

You do realize that as more Americans own and carry guns....our violent crime rate went down 72%....how do you explain that?

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.



Whatever the crime rate does......as more Americans owned more guns the crime rate did not go up....so again...



Britain...
More Guns = More Gun Crime
Britain had access to guns before they banned them.....they had low gun crime, low gun murder.
They banned guns, the gun murder rate spiked for 10 years then returned to the same level...
Your Theory again....
More guns = More Gun Crime
Guns Banned creates no change? That means banning guns for law abiding gun owners had no effect on gun crime.
When your theory states one thing, and you implement your theory, and nothing changes....in science, that means your theory is wrong...
-------

Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.



One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.


-----

Now four years later, Maine has been named the safest state in the nation according to US News and World Report’s public safety rankings, which measures the fifty states based on crime data.



Ranking as the top safest state for violent crime and fourth for property crime, Maine edges out another New England state, Vermont, for the top spot. Of note, Vermont also is a “Constitutional Carry” state. New Hampshire ranks third in the national rankings, giving New England all three of the top spots in the nation.

In 2018, Maine was edged out by Vermont in the same “safest states” ranking, but declared the best state overall in the broader “Crime and Corrections” category.

In 2017, using a different methodology, Maine was ranked second among the fifty states in the “Crime and Corrections” category and also second in the categories used to rank the “safest states.”

The U.S. News and World Report “Best States” rankings are built in partnership with McKinsey & Company, a firm that works closely with state leaders around the nation.

Maine has also ranked at the top of other state rankings. WalletHub.com recently ranked Maine second in “Personal and Residential Safety” among the fifty states, and third overall.

 

[alang1216]

The Democrats need to get control of their Negro voting block.

Excellent idea. How do you suggest they do that?

If the Democrats can get the Negroes to the voting booth to keep them in power then they should be able to figure out a way to keep the Negroes from shooting themselves.

And I was so sure you were going to say whips and chains. At least that would have been something.

Actually 2aguy gave an excellent list of initiatives to curtail gun violence a few posts back. Did you even bother to read it?

I did read the 2aguy post and was generally OK with it. What it failed to address was prevention as it focused on reacting to crimes that had already been committed.

 

[alang1216]

[

So your point is that, since some people will break the law, we shouldn't have laws?

The point was that gun control laws don't stop criminals from having and using firearms, only taking away Constitutional Liberty away from American citizens.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

Other countries don't have millions of inner city ghetto assholes that commit most of the gun crimes in the US.

If we shipped our Negroes and Illegals over to any other country their gun crime would sky rocket.

Short of shipping our 'Negroes and Illegals' over to another country, what's your solution? Give those 'Negroes and Illegals' more guns?

You have seen my solution....and it works. Nothing the anti-gunners suggest actually work...they simply ratchet down on normal gun owners with red tape, taxes, fees and arbitrary laws that only increase legal peril to normal people....

Guns in the US are a very complex problem so, as with every complex problem, I don't see any single, simple solution as fully addressing that problem. You can cherry-pick statistics to support any position if you are willing to ignore other statistics.

 

[2aguy]

The point was that gun control laws don't stop criminals from having and using firearms, only taking away Constitutional Liberty away from American citizens.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

Other countries don't have millions of inner city ghetto assholes that commit most of the gun crimes in the US.

If we shipped our Negroes and Illegals over to any other country their gun crime would sky rocket.

Short of shipping our 'Negroes and Illegals' over to another country, what's your solution? Give those 'Negroes and Illegals' more guns?

You have seen my solution....and it works. Nothing the anti-gunners suggest actually work...they simply ratchet down on normal gun owners with red tape, taxes, fees and arbitrary laws that only increase legal peril to normal people....

Guns in the US are a very complex problem so, as with every complex problem, I don't see any single, simple solution as fully addressing that problem. You can cherry-pick statistics to support any position if you are willing to ignore other statistics.

Not Cherry picking anything....you use the dodge "cherry picking" because the truth, and the facts do not support what you feel about guns...

And guns are not a complex problem.....I gave the actual solution to 95% of our gun crime problem.

 

[2aguy]

The Democrats need to get control of their Negro voting block.

Excellent idea. How do you suggest they do that?

If the Democrats can get the Negroes to the voting booth to keep them in power then they should be able to figure out a way to keep the Negroes from shooting themselves.

And I was so sure you were going to say whips and chains. At least that would have been something.

Actually 2aguy gave an excellent list of initiatives to curtail gun violence a few posts back. Did you even bother to read it?

I did read the 2aguy post and was generally OK with it. What it failed to address was prevention as it focused on reacting to crimes that had already been committed.

When repeat, violent gun offenders are in jail for 30 years...it prevents them from being released in a week on bond or cash free to go out and shoot people......and if they are locked up for 30 years to life, it prevents them from getting out of prison in under 3 years and shooting people......

These repeat offenders commit almost all of our gun crime and murder.....deal with them and you cut our gun murder rate and crime rate by 95%.....

You just can't stand the idea that normal people own guns and you can't take them away because they don't commit crimes with them....that is what you mean by "prevention..." taking guns away from normal people.....

 

[alang1216]

You just can't stand the idea that normal people own guns and you can't take them away because they don't commit crimes with them....that is what you mean by "prevention..." taking guns away from normal people.....

You have it backwards. I want ONLY normal people to have guns.

You use Japan as an example but ignore the effect of their strict gun controls. If you idea was so good why have no Red states implemented it?

 

[Flash]

The Democrats need to get control of their Negro voting block.

Excellent idea. How do you suggest they do that?

If the Democrats can get the Negroes to the voting booth to keep them in power then they should be able to figure out a way to keep the Negroes from shooting themselves.

And I was so sure you were going to say whips and chains. At least that would have been something.

Actually 2aguy gave an excellent list of initiatives to curtail gun violence a few posts back. Did you even bother to read it?

I did read the 2aguy post and was generally OK with it. What it failed to address was prevention as it focused on reacting to crimes that had already been committed.

No, you are confused. His plan was to provide a strong incentive to not use guns in crimes.

By the way, that worked here in Florida. When the state passed the law to allow shall issue for concealed carry they also included provisions for very tough sentences for using a gun in a crime. Gun crime went down tremendously.

That is proactive ahead of the crime being committed.

 

[2aguy]

You just can't stand the idea that normal people own guns and you can't take them away because they don't commit crimes with them....that is what you mean by "prevention..." taking guns away from normal people.....

You have it backwards. I want ONLY normal people to have guns.

You use Japan as an example but ignore the effect of their strict gun controls. If you idea was so good why have no Red states implemented it?

And I showed you that their criminals ignored those laws....completely and to the point that when they were fighting amongst themselves, they used fully automatic military weapons and grenades.........

You don't understand Japanese society..what keeps them from using guns illegally....

And you would still have to answer the questions...

As more Americans own and carry guns since the 1990s, why did our gun crime rate fall 75%....?

Why did our gun murder rate fall 49%?

Why did our crime rate fall 72%?

More guns did not equal more gun crime......how do you explain that?

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.



Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates. Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.
Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes." Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency. The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military demonstrations.

 

[2aguy]

Excellent idea. How do you suggest they do that?

If the Democrats can get the Negroes to the voting booth to keep them in power then they should be able to figure out a way to keep the Negroes from shooting themselves.

And I was so sure you were going to say whips and chains. At least that would have been something.

Actually 2aguy gave an excellent list of initiatives to curtail gun violence a few posts back. Did you even bother to read it?

I did read the 2aguy post and was generally OK with it. What it failed to address was prevention as it focused on reacting to crimes that had already been committed.

No, you are confused. His plan was to provide a strong incentive to not use guns in crimes.

By the way, that worked here in Florida. When the state passed the law to allow shall issue for concealed carry they also included provisions for very tough sentences for using a gun in a crime. Gun crime went down tremendously.

That is proactive ahead of the crime being committed.

Thank you......that explains it better than I did.....

 

[Flash]

You just can't stand the idea that normal people own guns and you can't take them away because they don't commit crimes with them....that is what you mean by "prevention..." taking guns away from normal people.....

You have it backwards. I want ONLY normal people to have guns.

You use Japan as an example but ignore the effect of their strict gun controls. If you idea was so good why have no Red states implemented it?

The problem is that we don't trust asshole Liberals to define "normal". They will be oppressive. For instance, during the Obama Administration the Justice Department made the claim that gun owning Christian veterans were "potential terrorists". Veterans receiving care were determined not to be normal enough to have the right to keep and bear arms.

There is no "normal" test for the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. It says very clearly that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. No qualifications. I don't want some piece of shit Commie Democrat determining that because I have a different agenda than they do that I am not normal.

This issue is just like the abortion issue. We can't get agreement on abortion because the Liberals are unreasonable. Most Conservatives would be willing to agree that abortions can be performed for legitimate medical issues and would be willing to compromise on rape and incest. However, the filthy Liberals want abortion on demand for the sake of convenience. Killing the child because they are a bother.

We see that same kind of unreasonableness on the gun control debate. Just go look at the oppressive laws passed in Democrat controlled commie states. Just look at what the Democrat Presidential candidates are saying.

Nope, we don't trust Liberals to be reasonable. They don't have it in them.

 

[Flash]

If the Democrats can get the Negroes to the voting booth to keep them in power then they should be able to figure out a way to keep the Negroes from shooting themselves.

And I was so sure you were going to say whips and chains. At least that would have been something.

Actually 2aguy gave an excellent list of initiatives to curtail gun violence a few posts back. Did you even bother to read it?

I did read the 2aguy post and was generally OK with it. What it failed to address was prevention as it focused on reacting to crimes that had already been committed.

No, you are confused. His plan was to provide a strong incentive to not use guns in crimes.

By the way, that worked here in Florida. When the state passed the law to allow shall issue for concealed carry they also included provisions for very tough sentences for using a gun in a crime. Gun crime went down tremendously.

That is proactive ahead of the crime being committed.

Thank you......that explains it better than I did.....

You actually explained it very well but the Moon Bat was confused. Your post was excellent. They are often confused about things like that.

 

[candycorn]

Cheering that there were “only” two deaths changes the debate? How?

Because it is obvious that armed citizens, at the scene of an attack can shut the attack down and save lives....

Again...

Kerch, Russia shooting....same weapon, 5 shot, pump action shotgun....

20 killed 70 injured, the Russian police station 300 meters away.

Texas Church shooting, same weapon.....5 shot, pump action shotgun..

2 killed, stopped in six seconds by armed citizen.

Lives saved because the shooter was immediately engaged by someone with a gun.....without those people on the scene, it would have taken minimum 5 minutes for the police to arrive...with guns.......and likely a lot longer........

And more? The other armed citizens did not just start spraying gun fire around the room......they did not shoot at police when they arrived and did not get shot by police when they arrived...

Nothing the anti-gun extremists say about armed citizens happened.......they acted rationally and with control in the middle of the attack...

That is what is being celebrated....

Two people are dead.

Some deranged lunatic took advantage of laxed gun laws, bought a gun and killed two people.

not sure what you are celebrating for.

 

[candycorn]

Cheering that there were “only” two deaths changes the debate? How?

By knowing that had men in the congregation not been armed then there could have been dozens of deaths.

Any more questions?

And using that “logic” the mountains of regulations for food to transportation to clean air saved dozens of lives today if not thousands.

I love that a security focused team was in place to stop this deranged lunatic. However cheering that only two were killed is almost as deranged.

 

[2aguy]

Cheering that there were “only” two deaths changes the debate? How?

Because it is obvious that armed citizens, at the scene of an attack can shut the attack down and save lives....

Again...

Kerch, Russia shooting....same weapon, 5 shot, pump action shotgun....

20 killed 70 injured, the Russian police station 300 meters away.

Texas Church shooting, same weapon.....5 shot, pump action shotgun..

2 killed, stopped in six seconds by armed citizen.

Lives saved because the shooter was immediately engaged by someone with a gun.....without those people on the scene, it would have taken minimum 5 minutes for the police to arrive...with guns.......and likely a lot longer........

And more? The other armed citizens did not just start spraying gun fire around the room......they did not shoot at police when they arrived and did not get shot by police when they arrived...

Nothing the anti-gun extremists say about armed citizens happened.......they acted rationally and with control in the middle of the attack...

That is what is being celebrated....

Two people are dead.

Some deranged lunatic took advantage of laxed gun laws, bought a gun and killed two people.

not sure what you are celebrating for.

We don't have lax gun laws. What we have is a democrat party that lets repeat gun offenders out of prison.

Lives were saved, that is what we are celebrating.

 

[2aguy]

Cheering that there were “only” two deaths changes the debate? How?

By knowing that had men in the congregation not been armed then there could have been dozens of deaths.

Any more questions?

And using that “logic” the mountains of regulations for food to transportation to clean air saved dozens of lives today if not thousands.

I love that a security focused team was in place to stop this deranged lunatic. However cheering that only two were killed is almost as deranged.

We are cheering because a good man saved lives......

the Russian shooter with the same weapon killed 20 and injured 70.

The good guy in Texas stopped the shooter in 6 seconds....so only 2 were killed......that would be 18 lives saved between the two shootings....that is what we celebrate....