CDZ Does the Texas church shooting change the gun debate? 6 seconds to stop the attacker....

[Porter Rockwell]

[

So your point is that, since some people will break the law, we shouldn't have laws?

The point was that gun control laws don't stop criminals from having and using firearms, only taking away Constitutional Liberty away from American citizens.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

I never said normal people do the killing.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Here is the thing I don't understand from the left OR the right:

If you know a person poses a threat to society, why in the Hell are they allowed to roam free among the citizenry? If you know someone cannot be trusted with a firearm, they might resort to an automobile, machete, knife, poison, etc.

It is called due process..........where you actually have to commit a crime to lose your freedom and Rights...... it took humanity a long time to get to that concept....and now that we have it you would like to throw it away...

You sound like the typical fucking idiot that one would find entrenched in the right. There is no way in mortal HELL that I would ever cross the line into Due Process.

Bear in mind, my life was put into danger over the so - called "Patriot Act" and I fought a three year long battle in the courts over my Due Process. Maybe if you people on the right learned how to STFU and heed the voices of experience, you could THINK your way out of the ditch.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

The point was that gun control laws don't stop criminals from having and using firearms, only taking away Constitutional Liberty away from American citizens.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

The useful idiots on the right would like to give credence to your stupidity.

The point was that gun control laws don't stop criminals from having and using firearms, only taking away Constitutional Liberty away from American citizens.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

I bet that is music to the ears of the useful idiots (as the communists used to call them) on the right that sit around agreeing with you. Let's quit blowing smoke up each other's ass for a change. If, as the right says, all we need to do is enforce the laws on the books, please explain these events:

Nidal Hasan kills 13 of his fellow soldiers on a military installation at Fort Hood in 2009

In 2016 Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded 53 more in a gay nightclub

Only a month ago a Saudi aviation student killed 3 people at a naval air station in Florida

I point to all these cases because in each and every case the weapons were legally purchased AND in all three cases the shooters underwent extreme background checks that were more far in depth than even what the left and right advocate.

On 14 December 2012, Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people (20 of them elementary school children.) The weapons were legally purchased by his mother and she not only underwent a background check, but was certified by the NRA as well.

Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter, killed 17 people at a school in Florida with a weapon he legally purchased AND that required a background check.

At least I've gotten a phony pro-gun guy to go liberal overnight. Not bad for someone who wants an end to gun control.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

[

So your point is that, since some people will break the law, we shouldn't have laws?

The point was that gun control laws don't stop criminals from having and using firearms, only taking away Constitutional Liberty away from American citizens.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

This is how wrong you are....

The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."
-------

But actual research has produced an unbroken record of recantations by criminologists who once agreed with Zimring. In the late 1970's the US Department of Justice (DOJ) funded and tasked the University of Massachusetts' Social and Demographic Research Institute to review and evaluate the entire extant literature on gun control in the US and elsewhere.

The Institute's resulting report observed: "It is commonly hypothesized that much criminal violence, especially homicide, occurs simply because the means of lethal violence (firearms) are readily at hand, and, thus, that much homicide would not occur were firearms generally less available. There is no persuasive evidence that supports this view." (emphasis added)
--------

Public Health and Gun Control --- A Review (Part II: Gun Violence and Constitutional Issues) | Hacienda Publishing


Another favorite view of the gun control, public health establishment is the myth propounded by Dr. Mark Rosenberg, former head of the NCIPC of the CDC, who has written: "Most of the perpetrators of violence are not criminals by trade or profession. Indeed, in the area of domestic violence, most of the perpetrators are never accused of any crime. The victims and perpetrators are ourselves --- ordinary citizens, students, professionals, and even public health workers."(6)

That statement is contradicted by available data, government data. The fact is that the typical murderer has had a prior criminal history of at least six years with four felony arrests in his record before he finally commits murder.


(17) The FBI statistics reveal that 75 percent of all violent crimes for any locality are committed by six percent of hardened criminals and repeat offenders.(18)


Less than 2 percent of crimes committed with firearms are carried out by licensed (e.g., concealed carry permit holders) law-abiding citizens.(11)

Violent crimes continue to be a problem in the inner cities with gangs involved in the drug trade. Crimes in rural areas for both blacks and whites, despite the preponderance of guns in this setting, remain low.(11,19)



Gun availability does not cause crime. Prohibitionist government policies and gun control (rather than crime control) exacerbates the problem by making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves, their families, and their property. In fact, there was a modest increase in both homicide and suicide after prohibition and passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968.(20)

All wasted statistics to help the liberals. Asked and answered in previous replies. BTW, your stats refer to incidents, not total numbers.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

[

So your point is that, since some people will break the law, we shouldn't have laws?

The point was that gun control laws don't stop criminals from having and using firearms, only taking away Constitutional Liberty away from American citizens.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

Again...you are wrong....

When Gun Violence Felt Like a Disease, a City in Delaware Turned to the C.D.C.



When epidemiologists from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention came to this city, they were not here to track an outbreak of meningitis or study the effectiveness of a particular vaccine.

They were here to examine gun violence.

This city of about 70,000 had a 45 percent jump in shootings from 2011 to 2013, and the violence has remained stubbornly high; 25 shooting deaths have been reported this year, slightly more than last year, according to the mayor’s office
.-------



The final report, which has been submitted to the state, reached a conclusion that many here said they already knew: that there are certain patterns in the lives of many who commit gun violence.

“The majority of individuals involved in urban firearm violence are young men with substantial violence involvement preceding the more serious offense of a firearm crime,”


the report said. “Our findings suggest that integrating data systems could help these individuals better receive the early, comprehensive help that they need to prevent violence involvement.”

Researchers analyzed data on 569 people charged with firearm crimes from 2009 to May 21, 2014, and looked for certain risk factors in their lives, such as whether they had been unemployed, had received help from assistance programs, had been possible victims of child abuse, or had been shot or stabbed. The idea was to show that linking such data could create a better understanding of who might need help before becoming involved in violence.

Your desperation with trying to prove me wrong is disgusting.

I can profile a mass shooter BEFORE the news lets out the first thing about the shooter.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

[

So your point is that, since some people will break the law, we shouldn't have laws?

The point was that gun control laws don't stop criminals from having and using firearms, only taking away Constitutional Liberty away from American citizens.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

The majority of victims of gun crime are criminals....

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record - WND

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.
-------
The report concludes that “of the 2011 homicide victims, 77 percent (66) had a least one prior arrest and of the known 2011 homicide suspects 90 percent (74) had at least one prior arrest.”
----------


In early 2012, after pressure put on the police by murder victims’ families in New Orleans, the police department stopped revealing whether or not the murder victim had a prior record.

---------------

Though data is no longer published in Baltimore, USA Today reported in 2007 that 91 percent of the then-205 murder victims in the city between Jan. 1 and Aug. 31, 2007, had criminal records.

---------
A WND review of the Philadelphia Police Department Murder and Shooting Analysis for 2011 shows a similar pattern to that of other large cities in America – a majority of the murder victims have prior records.

WTF do mean following me around like a dog in heat and presenting straw man arguments and ad hominems?

 

[TNHarley]

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

The useful idiots on the right would like to give credence to your stupidity.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

I bet that is music to the ears of the useful idiots (as the communists used to call them) on the right that sit around agreeing with you. Let's quit blowing smoke up each other's ass for a change. If, as the right says, all we need to do is enforce the laws on the books, please explain these events:

Nidal Hasan kills 13 of his fellow soldiers on a military installation at Fort Hood in 2009

In 2016 Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded 53 more in a gay nightclub

Only a month ago a Saudi aviation student killed 3 people at a naval air station in Florida

I point to all these cases because in each and every case the weapons were legally purchased AND in all three cases the shooters underwent extreme background checks that were more far in depth than even what the left and right advocate.

On 14 December 2012, Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people (20 of them elementary school children.) The weapons were legally purchased by his mother and she not only underwent a background check, but was certified by the NRA as well.

Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter, killed 17 people at a school in Florida with a weapon he legally purchased AND that required a background check.

At least I've gotten a phony pro-gun guy to go liberal overnight. Not bad for someone who wants an end to gun control.

4 incidents out of thousand every year.
Lanxa killed his mother to get his weapons. Nice try though.
You fail.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

The useful idiots on the right would like to give credence to your stupidity.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

I bet that is music to the ears of the useful idiots (as the communists used to call them) on the right that sit around agreeing with you. Let's quit blowing smoke up each other's ass for a change. If, as the right says, all we need to do is enforce the laws on the books, please explain these events:

Nidal Hasan kills 13 of his fellow soldiers on a military installation at Fort Hood in 2009

In 2016 Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded 53 more in a gay nightclub

Only a month ago a Saudi aviation student killed 3 people at a naval air station in Florida

I point to all these cases because in each and every case the weapons were legally purchased AND in all three cases the shooters underwent extreme background checks that were more far in depth than even what the left and right advocate.

On 14 December 2012, Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people (20 of them elementary school children.) The weapons were legally purchased by his mother and she not only underwent a background check, but was certified by the NRA as well.

Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter, killed 17 people at a school in Florida with a weapon he legally purchased AND that required a background check.

At least I've gotten a phony pro-gun guy to go liberal overnight. Not bad for someone who wants an end to gun control.

4 incidents out of thousand every year.
Lanxa killed his mother to get his weapons. Nice try though.
You fail.

I haven't failed at a damn thing homeboy. I proved that your background checks do not work. So, because I only listed a few (of the hundreds upon hundreds in my files) you think those lives don't represent anything???

To you, I'm sure they don't. You are like that other sick puppy following me around with statistics from people that think just like you while pretending to be pro-gun.

For anti-gunners, it's not about saving lives and preventing shootings... it's about CONTROL. I've more than proved that.

And Lanza still got his weapons from a legal source. Background checks did not stop him. Your proposed solution FAILED, not me.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Society could identify potential shooters and help them long before they ever pick up a firearm. It is a civil process that does not involve any aspect of criminal law; does not create a criminal file; does not impose on Due Process; does not rely on crackpot B.S. like Red Flag Laws, and does not include any form of gun control.

I asked the right and the left what kind of society allows people they don't trust to own a firearm to run amok in our society. That person could use an automobile, machete, knife, poison, etc.

Instead of answering the question, BOTH sides decided to attack me. Like I keep saying, both sides are going to the same destination, just by different routes. The reason we didn't get a straight answer - they're scared shitless of the truth.

 

[miketx]

It is there for the world to see.....a shooter is stopped in 6 seconds by an armed citizen....lives are lost, but many more lives are saved...how many?

In Russia, a shooter with a 5 shot, pump action shotgun killed 20 people and injured 70 with the police station 300 meters away from the location.

In the Texas Church shooting, a shooter with a 5 shot, pump action shotgun killed two, but in the 6 seconds he revealed himself, he was dead, and stopped by an armed citizen.

Can you honestly say that this doesn't create doubt if you are an anti-gun supporter....?

I don't think of myself as anti-gun, more like anti-gun violence. If Texas churches want to allow guns that is their call. I think the debate should be over how this, seemingly deranged, person got possession of a firearm and what can be done to prevent future incidents.

People arming themselves is what can be done. None of your gun control bullshit works.

 

[2aguy]

Here is the thing I don't understand from the left OR the right:

If you know a person poses a threat to society, why in the Hell are they allowed to roam free among the citizenry? If you know someone cannot be trusted with a firearm, they might resort to an automobile, machete, knife, poison, etc.

It is called due process..........where you actually have to commit a crime to lose your freedom and Rights...... it took humanity a long time to get to that concept....and now that we have it you would like to throw it away...

You sound like the typical fucking idiot that one would find entrenched in the right. There is no way in mortal HELL that I would ever cross the line into Due Process.

Bear in mind, my life was put into danger over the so - called "Patriot Act" and I fought a three year long battle in the courts over my Due Process. Maybe if you people on the right learned how to STFU and heed the voices of experience, you could THINK your way out of the ditch.

This is the CDZ.........please watch how you post.

 

[2aguy]

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

The useful idiots on the right would like to give credence to your stupidity.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

I bet that is music to the ears of the useful idiots (as the communists used to call them) on the right that sit around agreeing with you. Let's quit blowing smoke up each other's ass for a change. If, as the right says, all we need to do is enforce the laws on the books, please explain these events:

Nidal Hasan kills 13 of his fellow soldiers on a military installation at Fort Hood in 2009

In 2016 Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded 53 more in a gay nightclub

Only a month ago a Saudi aviation student killed 3 people at a naval air station in Florida

I point to all these cases because in each and every case the weapons were legally purchased AND in all three cases the shooters underwent extreme background checks that were more far in depth than even what the left and right advocate.

On 14 December 2012, Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people (20 of them elementary school children.) The weapons were legally purchased by his mother and she not only underwent a background check, but was certified by the NRA as well.

Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter, killed 17 people at a school in Florida with a weapon he legally purchased AND that required a background check.

At least I've gotten a phony pro-gun guy to go liberal overnight. Not bad for someone who wants an end to gun control.

You are talking mass public shootings vs. regular gun crime....two very different problems, neither of which is fixed by any additional laws.

Mass Public shooters can only be handled by intelligence on the criminal.....which we are improving.......as for gun criminals in general....locking up repeat gun offenders for long periods of time is how you prevent them from shooting people in the future.

As for mass public shooters, the ones above that you list.....all of them gave off major warning signs......and slipped through the system in the past because people didn't understand the need to act on those warning signs. The Fort Hood shooter handed out cards that said he was a warrior for jihad and gave lectures to his military colleagues on islam and martyrdom...and he was ignored....the Sandy Hook shooter had vast spread sheets on mass public shootings in his room....

..the Pulse shooter didn't just pass one background check........he underwent a complete background check for his job....a background check for each of his weapons....and a complete, full, FBI counter terror investigation that included 3 interviews with trained FBI interrogators, a complete background check and an under cover approach by an FBI agent......he passed all of them.

The Parkland Shooter had 33 interactions with the police, committed several felonies at school that were ignored because of the obama "Promise Program," and because the police and school officials didn't press charges, he passed a background check...

The Saudi Nationals passed military background check to get into this country and that training...

This is why there are no new laws that will catch mass public shooters......people paying attention to these guys and knowing the warning signs are what catch mass public shooters......

 

[2aguy]

The point was that gun control laws don't stop criminals from having and using firearms, only taking away Constitutional Liberty away from American citizens.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

Again...you are wrong....

When Gun Violence Felt Like a Disease, a City in Delaware Turned to the C.D.C.



When epidemiologists from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention came to this city, they were not here to track an outbreak of meningitis or study the effectiveness of a particular vaccine.

They were here to examine gun violence.

This city of about 70,000 had a 45 percent jump in shootings from 2011 to 2013, and the violence has remained stubbornly high; 25 shooting deaths have been reported this year, slightly more than last year, according to the mayor’s office
.-------



The final report, which has been submitted to the state, reached a conclusion that many here said they already knew: that there are certain patterns in the lives of many who commit gun violence.

“The majority of individuals involved in urban firearm violence are young men with substantial violence involvement preceding the more serious offense of a firearm crime,”


the report said. “Our findings suggest that integrating data systems could help these individuals better receive the early, comprehensive help that they need to prevent violence involvement.”

Researchers analyzed data on 569 people charged with firearm crimes from 2009 to May 21, 2014, and looked for certain risk factors in their lives, such as whether they had been unemployed, had received help from assistance programs, had been possible victims of child abuse, or had been shot or stabbed. The idea was to show that linking such data could create a better understanding of who might need help before becoming involved in violence.

Your desperation with trying to prove me wrong is disgusting.

I can profile a mass shooter BEFORE the news lets out the first thing about the shooter.

Yep......that is why mass public shooters are different from regular gun criminals....and why people in their lives paying attention to the danger signs catch these guys and gun laws don't...since they have no criminal record before the attack.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Here is the thing I don't understand from the left OR the right:

If you know a person poses a threat to society, why in the Hell are they allowed to roam free among the citizenry? If you know someone cannot be trusted with a firearm, they might resort to an automobile, machete, knife, poison, etc.

It is called due process..........where you actually have to commit a crime to lose your freedom and Rights...... it took humanity a long time to get to that concept....and now that we have it you would like to throw it away...

You sound like the typical fucking idiot that one would find entrenched in the right. There is no way in mortal HELL that I would ever cross the line into Due Process.

Bear in mind, my life was put into danger over the so - called "Patriot Act" and I fought a three year long battle in the courts over my Due Process. Maybe if you people on the right learned how to STFU and heed the voices of experience, you could THINK your way out of the ditch.

This is the CDZ.........please watch how you post.

You need to be a bit more respectful about hurling accusations without the facts.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

The useful idiots on the right would like to give credence to your stupidity.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

I bet that is music to the ears of the useful idiots (as the communists used to call them) on the right that sit around agreeing with you. Let's quit blowing smoke up each other's ass for a change. If, as the right says, all we need to do is enforce the laws on the books, please explain these events:

Nidal Hasan kills 13 of his fellow soldiers on a military installation at Fort Hood in 2009

In 2016 Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded 53 more in a gay nightclub

Only a month ago a Saudi aviation student killed 3 people at a naval air station in Florida

I point to all these cases because in each and every case the weapons were legally purchased AND in all three cases the shooters underwent extreme background checks that were more far in depth than even what the left and right advocate.

On 14 December 2012, Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people (20 of them elementary school children.) The weapons were legally purchased by his mother and she not only underwent a background check, but was certified by the NRA as well.

Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter, killed 17 people at a school in Florida with a weapon he legally purchased AND that required a background check.

At least I've gotten a phony pro-gun guy to go liberal overnight. Not bad for someone who wants an end to gun control.

You are talking mass public shootings vs. regular gun crime....two very different problems, neither of which is fixed by any additional laws.

Mass Public shooters can only be handled by intelligence on the criminal.....which we are improving.......as for gun criminals in general....locking up repeat gun offenders for long periods of time is how you prevent them from shooting people in the future.

As for mass public shooters, the ones above that you list.....all of them gave off major warning signs......and slipped through the system in the past because people didn't understand the need to act on those warning signs. The Fort Hood shooter handed out cards that said he was a warrior for jihad and gave lectures to his military colleagues on islam and martyrdom...and he was ignored....the Sandy Hook shooter had vast spread sheets on mass public shootings in his room....

..the Pulse shooter didn't just pass one background check........he underwent a complete background check for his job....a background check for each of his weapons....and a complete, full, FBI counter terror investigation that included 3 interviews with trained FBI interrogators, a complete background check and an under cover approach by an FBI agent......he passed all of them.

The Parkland Shooter had 33 interactions with the police, committed several felonies at school that were ignored because of the obama "Promise Program," and because the police and school officials didn't press charges, he passed a background check...

The Saudi Nationals passed military background check to get into this country and that training...

This is why there are no new laws that will catch mass public shooters......people paying attention to these guys and knowing the warning signs are what catch mass public shooters......

You've continually made bold assertions of what I've proposed and I'm well aware of what you posted. I've spent four or more decades researching and working in this field.

You are content to lie and mislead people. THAT is why the gun lobby is losing credibility among the public. I have never advocated adding one, single, solitary gun law on the books and in order to implement my program, the only possible legislation in my state would be to allocate resources. I do not need more laws on the books unless I'm repealing two statutes and replacing them with one that is better. Hmm... for every new law I'd put on the books means taking two OFF the books. Continue on professor.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Sorry but I don't buy it. Other countries have gun control laws and have fewer gun deaths than the US.

How many of our gun deaths are not suicides or done with illegal guns?
Not many.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

Again...you are wrong....

When Gun Violence Felt Like a Disease, a City in Delaware Turned to the C.D.C.



When epidemiologists from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention came to this city, they were not here to track an outbreak of meningitis or study the effectiveness of a particular vaccine.

They were here to examine gun violence.

This city of about 70,000 had a 45 percent jump in shootings from 2011 to 2013, and the violence has remained stubbornly high; 25 shooting deaths have been reported this year, slightly more than last year, according to the mayor’s office
.-------



The final report, which has been submitted to the state, reached a conclusion that many here said they already knew: that there are certain patterns in the lives of many who commit gun violence.

“The majority of individuals involved in urban firearm violence are young men with substantial violence involvement preceding the more serious offense of a firearm crime,”


the report said. “Our findings suggest that integrating data systems could help these individuals better receive the early, comprehensive help that they need to prevent violence involvement.”

Researchers analyzed data on 569 people charged with firearm crimes from 2009 to May 21, 2014, and looked for certain risk factors in their lives, such as whether they had been unemployed, had received help from assistance programs, had been possible victims of child abuse, or had been shot or stabbed. The idea was to show that linking such data could create a better understanding of who might need help before becoming involved in violence.

Your desperation with trying to prove me wrong is disgusting.

I can profile a mass shooter BEFORE the news lets out the first thing about the shooter.

Yep......that is why mass public shooters are different from regular gun criminals....and why people in their lives paying attention to the danger signs catch these guys and gun laws don't...since they have no criminal record before the attack.

There are commonalities in all potential shooters. Most people who display the symptoms will never misuse a firearm. But, if a program were instituted to identify them, you'd trip over all the children who are on a destructive path in their lives and the difference to me is simple:

You like sitting on your rump, advocating for enforcing unconstitutional laws. I would use a civil process, NOT chase people on unconstitutional statutes and rather than generate police reports, I'd help families in bad situations and prevent abuse and violence.

 

[TNHarley]

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

The useful idiots on the right would like to give credence to your stupidity.

Bullshit. Most gun crimes are done by people that passed background checks, registered their weapons, and did everything by the book.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

I bet that is music to the ears of the useful idiots (as the communists used to call them) on the right that sit around agreeing with you. Let's quit blowing smoke up each other's ass for a change. If, as the right says, all we need to do is enforce the laws on the books, please explain these events:

Nidal Hasan kills 13 of his fellow soldiers on a military installation at Fort Hood in 2009

In 2016 Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded 53 more in a gay nightclub

Only a month ago a Saudi aviation student killed 3 people at a naval air station in Florida

I point to all these cases because in each and every case the weapons were legally purchased AND in all three cases the shooters underwent extreme background checks that were more far in depth than even what the left and right advocate.

On 14 December 2012, Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people (20 of them elementary school children.) The weapons were legally purchased by his mother and she not only underwent a background check, but was certified by the NRA as well.

Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter, killed 17 people at a school in Florida with a weapon he legally purchased AND that required a background check.

At least I've gotten a phony pro-gun guy to go liberal overnight. Not bad for someone who wants an end to gun control.

4 incidents out of thousand every year.
Lanxa killed his mother to get his weapons. Nice try though.
You fail.

I haven't failed at a damn thing homeboy. I proved that your background checks do not work. So, because I only listed a few (of the hundreds upon hundreds in my files) you think those lives don't represent anything???

To you, I'm sure they don't. You are like that other sick puppy following me around with statistics from people that think just like you while pretending to be pro-gun.

For anti-gunners, it's not about saving lives and preventing shootings... it's about CONTROL. I've more than proved that.

And Lanza still got his weapons from a legal source. Background checks did not stop him. Your proposed solution FAILED, not me.

You didnt prove what you said.
Lanza didnt get his guns legally. He MURDERED the legal gun owner.
Again, you failed.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

The useful idiots on the right would like to give credence to your stupidity.

That is wrong...most gun crimes are not done by people who pass background checks and registered their weapons, that is not true even slightly. Most crime is committed by people with long histories of crime.....90% of murder is committed by people with long histories of crime and violence that would include murder with guns.

The idea that normal people kill is a myth...it isn't true.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

I bet that is music to the ears of the useful idiots (as the communists used to call them) on the right that sit around agreeing with you. Let's quit blowing smoke up each other's ass for a change. If, as the right says, all we need to do is enforce the laws on the books, please explain these events:

Nidal Hasan kills 13 of his fellow soldiers on a military installation at Fort Hood in 2009

In 2016 Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded 53 more in a gay nightclub

Only a month ago a Saudi aviation student killed 3 people at a naval air station in Florida

I point to all these cases because in each and every case the weapons were legally purchased AND in all three cases the shooters underwent extreme background checks that were more far in depth than even what the left and right advocate.

On 14 December 2012, Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people (20 of them elementary school children.) The weapons were legally purchased by his mother and she not only underwent a background check, but was certified by the NRA as well.

Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter, killed 17 people at a school in Florida with a weapon he legally purchased AND that required a background check.

At least I've gotten a phony pro-gun guy to go liberal overnight. Not bad for someone who wants an end to gun control.

4 incidents out of thousand every year.
Lanxa killed his mother to get his weapons. Nice try though.
You fail.

I haven't failed at a damn thing homeboy. I proved that your background checks do not work. So, because I only listed a few (of the hundreds upon hundreds in my files) you think those lives don't represent anything???

To you, I'm sure they don't. You are like that other sick puppy following me around with statistics from people that think just like you while pretending to be pro-gun.

For anti-gunners, it's not about saving lives and preventing shootings... it's about CONTROL. I've more than proved that.

And Lanza still got his weapons from a legal source. Background checks did not stop him. Your proposed solution FAILED, not me.

You didnt prove what you said.
Lanza didnt get his guns legally. He MURDERED the legal gun owner.
Again, you failed.

Lanza had legal access to the firearms. Playing semantics with words does not change the bottom line. The background checks don't work. In order for your argument to prevail, you would have to prove that if Adam had been in the right frame of mind and took the weapons, saying he was going to practice his skills, that his mother would have turned him down.

Additionally, since there were several firearms in the house, we cannot say which firearms the mother may have intended her son to be rightful owner of.

You had rather be "right" (though you are not) than to put a constitutional proposal on the table that addresses the issue. No law that you or the misguided Second Amendment wannabe refer to would have stopped Adam Lanza. I could have stopped him - and without jeopardizing anybody's constitutional Rights.

 

[2aguy]

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

The useful idiots on the right would like to give credence to your stupidity.

Yea I doubt those felon gang bangers aquired their guns legally lol

I bet that is music to the ears of the useful idiots (as the communists used to call them) on the right that sit around agreeing with you. Let's quit blowing smoke up each other's ass for a change. If, as the right says, all we need to do is enforce the laws on the books, please explain these events:

Nidal Hasan kills 13 of his fellow soldiers on a military installation at Fort Hood in 2009

In 2016 Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded 53 more in a gay nightclub

Only a month ago a Saudi aviation student killed 3 people at a naval air station in Florida

I point to all these cases because in each and every case the weapons were legally purchased AND in all three cases the shooters underwent extreme background checks that were more far in depth than even what the left and right advocate.

On 14 December 2012, Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people (20 of them elementary school children.) The weapons were legally purchased by his mother and she not only underwent a background check, but was certified by the NRA as well.

Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter, killed 17 people at a school in Florida with a weapon he legally purchased AND that required a background check.

At least I've gotten a phony pro-gun guy to go liberal overnight. Not bad for someone who wants an end to gun control.

4 incidents out of thousand every year.
Lanxa killed his mother to get his weapons. Nice try though.
You fail.

I haven't failed at a damn thing homeboy. I proved that your background checks do not work. So, because I only listed a few (of the hundreds upon hundreds in my files) you think those lives don't represent anything???

To you, I'm sure they don't. You are like that other sick puppy following me around with statistics from people that think just like you while pretending to be pro-gun.

For anti-gunners, it's not about saving lives and preventing shootings... it's about CONTROL. I've more than proved that.

And Lanza still got his weapons from a legal source. Background checks did not stop him. Your proposed solution FAILED, not me.

You didnt prove what you said.
Lanza didnt get his guns legally. He MURDERED the legal gun owner.
Again, you failed.

Lanza had legal access to the firearms. Playing semantics with words does not change the bottom line. The background checks don't work. In order for your argument to prevail, you would have to prove that if Adam had been in the right frame of mind and took the weapons, saying he was going to practice his skills, that his mother would have turned him down.

Additionally, since there were several firearms in the house, we cannot say which firearms the mother may have intended her son to be rightful owner of.

You had rather be "right" (though you are not) than to put a constitutional proposal on the table that addresses the issue. No law that you or the misguided Second Amendment wannabe refer to would have stopped Adam Lanza. I could have stopped him - and without jeopardizing anybody's constitutional Rights.

You couldn't have stopped him either.........he was not adjudicated mentally ill, his mother, who sought help, didn't commit him......so nothing you pretend you could do could have stopped him.

But please.....try to explain how you would have stopped him....

 

[Porter Rockwell]

The useful idiots on the right would like to give credence to your stupidity.
I bet that is music to the ears of the useful idiots (as the communists used to call them) on the right that sit around agreeing with you. Let's quit blowing smoke up each other's ass for a change. If, as the right says, all we need to do is enforce the laws on the books, please explain these events:

Nidal Hasan kills 13 of his fellow soldiers on a military installation at Fort Hood in 2009

In 2016 Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded 53 more in a gay nightclub

Only a month ago a Saudi aviation student killed 3 people at a naval air station in Florida

I point to all these cases because in each and every case the weapons were legally purchased AND in all three cases the shooters underwent extreme background checks that were more far in depth than even what the left and right advocate.

On 14 December 2012, Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people (20 of them elementary school children.) The weapons were legally purchased by his mother and she not only underwent a background check, but was certified by the NRA as well.

Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter, killed 17 people at a school in Florida with a weapon he legally purchased AND that required a background check.

At least I've gotten a phony pro-gun guy to go liberal overnight. Not bad for someone who wants an end to gun control.

4 incidents out of thousand every year.
Lanxa killed his mother to get his weapons. Nice try though.
You fail.

I haven't failed at a damn thing homeboy. I proved that your background checks do not work. So, because I only listed a few (of the hundreds upon hundreds in my files) you think those lives don't represent anything???

To you, I'm sure they don't. You are like that other sick puppy following me around with statistics from people that think just like you while pretending to be pro-gun.

For anti-gunners, it's not about saving lives and preventing shootings... it's about CONTROL. I've more than proved that.

And Lanza still got his weapons from a legal source. Background checks did not stop him. Your proposed solution FAILED, not me.

You didnt prove what you said.
Lanza didnt get his guns legally. He MURDERED the legal gun owner.
Again, you failed.

Lanza had legal access to the firearms. Playing semantics with words does not change the bottom line. The background checks don't work. In order for your argument to prevail, you would have to prove that if Adam had been in the right frame of mind and took the weapons, saying he was going to practice his skills, that his mother would have turned him down.

Additionally, since there were several firearms in the house, we cannot say which firearms the mother may have intended her son to be rightful owner of.

You had rather be "right" (though you are not) than to put a constitutional proposal on the table that addresses the issue. No law that you or the misguided Second Amendment wannabe refer to would have stopped Adam Lanza. I could have stopped him - and without jeopardizing anybody's constitutional Rights.

You couldn't have stopped him either.........he was not adjudicated mentally ill, his mother, who sought help, didn't commit him......so nothing you pretend you could do could have stopped him.

But please.....try to explain how you would have stopped him....

You want a simplistic answer in a few paragraphs. Maybe you'd be well advised to stop and study what proposals are on the table BEFORE you spew swill.

You have accused me of wanting to implement more laws and that was a lie.

You accused me of endangering Due Process and that was a lie. The fact that I was forced to litigate that issue for three years and won told me that you are, most likely, absolutely uneducated on that issue.

Having been a foster parent, plus having a legal education tells me that you want to win an argument instead of saving lives because your knowledge of that system is lacking.

Until you fully understand a problem, you are not likely going to solve it.

FWIW: In 1963, the U.S. government began selling the M1 Carbine to the general public. Approximately 240,000 carbines were decommissioned and sold to through the NRA.

Today, the NRA is the home to as many anti-gun fence sitters as it is to people who care about solving problems.