Do salaries of government reflect US citizens?

[gwennie]

I did not say we should pay our leaders less or more. I said, "Paying our leaders less is not going to draw more talented people into government...." The problem is not who's in congress. If it were, we would have solved the nation's major problems years ago. The problem is the way government and particular congress operates. We send new people to Washington and they don't have a clue how to solve the problems. Worst yet, even if they did, the pressure from the leadership, dealing with the bureaucracy and the congressional seniority system insures the status quo.

And sending Joe the plumber to Congress will only make things worse

Aside from the monetary corruption, it has everything to do with who we send to Congress. Sending Joe the Plumber to Congress would likely be a lot better than what we have going right now. Are you suggesting that we keep sending lawyers and bankers and corporate idiots and the like into Congress.....because that's worked great for us so far? No. The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results......and that's what's been happening for years. People complain all the time, yet they keep electing the same assholes back into Congress or they elect people who have a ton of money, have political connections to thoroughly corrupt individuals, and/or are part of the Wall Street crowd. Well guess what...they've had their turn trying to run things and all they've....conservatives and liberals alike....done is wreck the country, financially and socially. It has nothing to do with how Congress operates......Congress is dependent on people to run it; if it's fucked up, that's because of the people in it.

It only makes sense to send people to Congress that understand the law and how to write laws. After all that is their job. People without political knowledge, civic engagement, knowledge of the law, and how government functions would be lost.

Just because people with years of experience in government, law, and business are unable to solve America's problems, is no reason to send people to Washington who don't know what their doing. "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" may be a good movie, but in the real world, Washington politics will make mincemeat out of them.

Working class Americans without the skills and experience needed to survive the political minefields in Washington are almost sure to become puppets for Washington power brokers and lobbyists.

You continue to lose your argument......the people in DC are puppets now, with all the corruption that goes along with it. Why you insist on thinking that keeping the same types of people (or the same people) in power will somehow fix the problem shows a total lack of common sense. Lawyers, bankers, and the like have done absolutely nothing but make the system as corrupt as possible. It seems to me that an arrogant attitude of "nobody else is smart enough to do the job" reaks of elitist bullshit.....an assumption that people are generally too stupid to understand what the constitution and bill of rights says. In case you don't know, both of them are written in plain language that most 6th graders can understand. It's not complicated material.

 

[Flopper]

All we owe our public servants is housing and food while they serve us. We should house them the way we do military members. Have large apartment buildings with security and a food allowance.

I suppose if you're trying to attract the homeless and the unemployed that might work. Most congressman have to drastically cutback their work in their business or job. For members of Congress serving on key committee, it often becomes their full time job.

There are many changes needed to be made in how we elect our representatives, campaign finance, and relationship between congress and lobbyists. But cutting the salary of congressmen would do nothing to solve our problems.

 

[Flopper]

Aside from the monetary corruption, it has everything to do with who we send to Congress. Sending Joe the Plumber to Congress would likely be a lot better than what we have going right now. Are you suggesting that we keep sending lawyers and bankers and corporate idiots and the like into Congress.....because that's worked great for us so far? No. The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results......and that's what's been happening for years. People complain all the time, yet they keep electing the same assholes back into Congress or they elect people who have a ton of money, have political connections to thoroughly corrupt individuals, and/or are part of the Wall Street crowd. Well guess what...they've had their turn trying to run things and all they've....conservatives and liberals alike....done is wreck the country, financially and socially. It has nothing to do with how Congress operates......Congress is dependent on people to run it; if it's fucked up, that's because of the people in it.

It only makes sense to send people to Congress that understand the law and how to write laws. After all that is their job. People without political knowledge, civic engagement, knowledge of the law, and how government functions would be lost.

Just because people with years of experience in government, law, and business are unable to solve America's problems, is no reason to send people to Washington who don't know what their doing. "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" may be a good movie, but in the real world, Washington politics will make mincemeat out of them.

Working class Americans without the skills and experience needed to survive the political minefields in Washington are almost sure to become puppets for Washington power brokers and lobbyists.

You continue to lose your argument......the people in DC are puppets now, with all the corruption that goes along with it. Why you insist on thinking that keeping the same types of people (or the same people) in power will somehow fix the problem shows a total lack of common sense. Lawyers, bankers, and the like have done absolutely nothing but make the system as corrupt as possible. It seems to me that an arrogant attitude of "nobody else is smart enough to do the job" reaks of elitist bullshit.....an assumption that people are generally too stupid to understand what the constitution and bill of rights says. In case you don't know, both of them are written in plain language that most 6th graders can understand. It's not complicated material.

Well, if you think Joe the plumber, would be less susceptible to corruption, knows how to deal with a deeply divided Congress, and has some new ideas, then you need to talk him into running.

 

[Clementine]

Aside from the monetary corruption, it has everything to do with who we send to Congress. Sending Joe the Plumber to Congress would likely be a lot better than what we have going right now. Are you suggesting that we keep sending lawyers and bankers and corporate idiots and the like into Congress.....because that's worked great for us so far? No. The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results......and that's what's been happening for years. People complain all the time, yet they keep electing the same assholes back into Congress or they elect people who have a ton of money, have political connections to thoroughly corrupt individuals, and/or are part of the Wall Street crowd. Well guess what...they've had their turn trying to run things and all they've....conservatives and liberals alike....done is wreck the country, financially and socially. It has nothing to do with how Congress operates......Congress is dependent on people to run it; if it's fucked up, that's because of the people in it.

It only makes sense to send people to Congress that understand the law and how to write laws. After all that is their job. People without political knowledge, civic engagement, knowledge of the law, and how government functions would be lost.

Just because people with years of experience in government, law, and business are unable to solve America's problems, is no reason to send people to Washington who don't know what their doing. "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" may be a good movie, but in the real world, Washington politics will make mincemeat out of them.

Working class Americans without the skills and experience needed to survive the political minefields in Washington are almost sure to become puppets for Washington power brokers and lobbyists.

You continue to lose your argument......the people in DC are puppets now, with all the corruption that goes along with it. Why you insist on thinking that keeping the same types of people (or the same people) in power will somehow fix the problem shows a total lack of common sense. Lawyers, bankers, and the like have done absolutely nothing but make the system as corrupt as possible. It seems to me that an arrogant attitude of "nobody else is smart enough to do the job" reaks of elitist bullshit.....an assumption that people are generally too stupid to understand what the constitution and bill of rights says. In case you don't know, both of them are written in plain language that most 6th graders can understand. It's not complicated material.

And the truth is that most members of congress don't bother to read bills before voting simply because they don't understand them. Most admitted to not reading the Obamacare bill and probably still don't have a clue what they supported. I'm also beginning to wonder if some of them can even read at a six grade level.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

•Congress members (Representatives and Senators): $174,000
•Senate and House Majority/Minority Leaders: $193,400
•Cabinet members: $199,700
•Speaker of the House: $223,500
•Vice President: $230,700
•President: $400,000

The bottom line is that I feel that our government is totally out of touch with average citizens. The salaries above do not in the least expose all the ADDITIONAL perks these individuals acquire as a result of their power & prestige. They have the best of free healthcare and transportation and protection and luncheons/dinners and insider reports, and pensions. Is it any wonder that they are unable to balance a budget or spend wisely. They even vote for their own raises. They have become an embarrassment to the term capitalism, with their air of royal superiority over the "peasantry." Government of the people has evolved into government in spite of the people. All of these individuals owe their election to the hard work of volunteers and sponging off the general public for donations to their cause (or might we say election). Perhaps the only solution is a general revolt, but I fear that would only establish a far more evil regime. However, this insult to the American public simply cannot continue. Do we need a second American Revolution or another Civil War? What other choice is there --- we have had both Democrats and Republicans in office. Neither has voted in a wage decrease (they feel they are far too important).

What do you suggest? We put them all up in a motel six an hire a temp security guard for the President?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I think that salary rates should reflect approval numbers. Right now the approval rating of Congress is only 13%.

Its a good thing for Congress their salaries don't reflect your retardedness,

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

What would you say the comparable private sector jobs are for congress and the president?

Hard for me to think of one which would compare to congress. I looked up the average days worked by congress per year and they are working about 180 days a year. Soldier's, firefighters, teachers, police work far harder and is paid a lot less whild putting so much more on the line to include their lives.


2010 vacation schedule:


January 1st-January 12: 1 1/2 weeks
February 15th-February 19th: 1 week
March 29th-April 12th: 2 weeks
May 31st-June 4th: 1 week
July 5th-July 9th: 1 week
August 9th-Sept 12th: 5 weeks.
October 11th-December 31st: 12 weeks.

So that is 23.5 weeks not in session.

When would you suggest they meet with their constituents?


If being a Senator is anything like being a scientist or a trial lawyer or a CEO - then you're never really on "vacation" because the work follows you everywhere. I know its nice to have a job like you must have where when you have vacation you actually don't do any work but those of us who love our jobs can't avoid it.

 

[gallantwarrior]

•Congress members (Representatives and Senators): $174,000
•Senate and House Majority/Minority Leaders: $193,400
•Cabinet members: $199,700
•Speaker of the House: $223,500
•Vice President: $230,700
•President: $400,000

The bottom line is that I feel that our government is totally out of touch with average citizens. The salaries above do not in the least expose all the ADDITIONAL perks these individuals acquire as a result of their power & prestige. They have the best of free healthcare and transportation and protection and luncheons/dinners and insider reports, and pensions. Is it any wonder that they are unable to balance a budget or spend wisely. They even vote for their own raises. They have become an embarrassment to the term capitalism, with their air of royal superiority over the "peasantry." Government of the people has evolved into government in spite of the people. All of these individuals owe their election to the hard work of volunteers and sponging off the general public for donations to their cause (or might we say election). Perhaps the only solution is a general revolt, but I fear that would only establish a far more evil regime. However, this insult to the American public simply cannot continue. Do we need a second American Revolution or another Civil War? What other choice is there --- we have had both Democrats and Republicans in office. Neither has voted in a wage decrease (they feel they are far too important).

Congress actually has it set up so that they have to vote NOT to get a pay raise. If they don't vote at all, the raise automatically takes affect.
"For the fifth year in a row, lawmakers voted not to reject their automatic "cost of living" raise that will increase the annual salary of members by $3,400 to a total of $158,103 per year."
Congress Votes Itself a Pay Raise

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

•Congress members (Representatives and Senators): $174,000
•Senate and House Majority/Minority Leaders: $193,400
•Cabinet members: $199,700
•Speaker of the House: $223,500
•Vice President: $230,700
•President: $400,000

The bottom line is that I feel that our government is totally out of touch with average citizens. The salaries above do not in the least expose all the ADDITIONAL perks these individuals acquire as a result of their power & prestige. They have the best of free healthcare and transportation and protection and luncheons/dinners and insider reports, and pensions. Is it any wonder that they are unable to balance a budget or spend wisely. They even vote for their own raises. They have become an embarrassment to the term capitalism, with their air of royal superiority over the "peasantry." Government of the people has evolved into government in spite of the people. All of these individuals owe their election to the hard work of volunteers and sponging off the general public for donations to their cause (or might we say election). Perhaps the only solution is a general revolt, but I fear that would only establish a far more evil regime. However, this insult to the American public simply cannot continue. Do we need a second American Revolution or another Civil War? What other choice is there --- we have had both Democrats and Republicans in office. Neither has voted in a wage decrease (they feel they are far too important).

Congress actually has it set up so that they have to vote NOT to get a pay raise. If they don't vote at all, the raise automatically takes affect.
"For the fifth year in a row, lawmakers voted not to reject their automatic "cost of living" raise that will increase the annual salary of members by $3,400 to a total of $158,103 per year."
Congress Votes Itself a Pay Raise

Its a cost of living raise.

That's not really a raise, genius.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I think that salary rates should reflect approval numbers. Right now the approval rating of Congress is only 13%.

It should be included on every ballot. There should be a check box with something like: Should Rep so-n-so, or Sen so-and-so receive a xxx% pay increase? Yes/No

 

[gallantwarrior]

What job should they be compared to? CEO and board of a company?

No, that would imply that elected government representatives have some knowledge, training, or skill in management. Prime example: our current POTUS. Guy's got nothing that would apply in a real business environment. Hell, he's not even qualified to flip burgers at McD's if you look at his resume.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Hey guys - if you want a Senator in office who knows what its like to struggle for money, is it better to
a) ELECT someone who has struggled for money in the past?
b) Put someone in office and THEN make him struggle for money while he's trying to represent you?

174k is a comfortable living but its hardly the ritz considering you have to move your ass to Washington for most of the year. Do any of you have what is called a "family" ? Moving way fin far away for work if you have one can be a real pain in the ass. You either have to move your children to a new school and have your spouse find a new job, or ditch them all at home, where your spouse may not be able to hold down the same job as they become primary parent at that point. Not to mention its a TEMPORARY job. I would not take the job of Senator for 174k if everyone in the state of Louisiana voted for me, to hell with that. Not to mention its a lot of work. Any of you who think a Senator's sole job consist of sitting in session and voting yea or nay is an ignorant moron.

 

[gallantwarrior]

•Congress members (Representatives and Senators): $174,000
•Senate and House Majority/Minority Leaders: $193,400
•Cabinet members: $199,700
•Speaker of the House: $223,500
•Vice President: $230,700
•President: $400,000

The bottom line is that I feel that our government is totally out of touch with average citizens. The salaries above do not in the least expose all the ADDITIONAL perks these individuals acquire as a result of their power & prestige. They have the best of free healthcare and transportation and protection and luncheons/dinners and insider reports, and pensions. Is it any wonder that they are unable to balance a budget or spend wisely. They even vote for their own raises. They have become an embarrassment to the term capitalism, with their air of royal superiority over the "peasantry." Government of the people has evolved into government in spite of the people. All of these individuals owe their election to the hard work of volunteers and sponging off the general public for donations to their cause (or might we say election). Perhaps the only solution is a general revolt, but I fear that would only establish a far more evil regime. However, this insult to the American public simply cannot continue. Do we need a second American Revolution or another Civil War? What other choice is there --- we have had both Democrats and Republicans in office. Neither has voted in a wage decrease (they feel they are far too important).

We don't need a revolution or a civil war - only fools suggest such a course of action. We need to do several doable things, including:
1. Providing the best possible education to our kids;
2. Real reform of how we run elections (repeal CU v. FEC);
3. Real reform of how members of Congress are lobbied;
4. Single issue legislation - no riders
5. Protect public officials from libel and slander, criminalize such behavior.

I agree with most of those positions. I would be interested in what some of your proposals for those changes are.

 

[gallantwarrior]

The way congress is working ( which is NOT much) I think we need a refund. Reid has not even put a budget in almost 4 years. If he had done this in a private sector job he would be FIRED.. But no. The stupid people in NV keep putting his sorry ass back in office

Thanks in great measure the union strongarm efforts and the union-maintained voting machines.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Shithead, I make over $100,000 and I have a BA, MA and MBA......shut the fuck up.

I might believe you, but 1) this is the Internet and you can claim anything; 2) I've read your posts and you are so filled with hate I can't imagine anyone would put up with you; and 3) nothing you post suggests any indication you've learned anything about human nature.

I'm talking about scum like you doing meaningless work in the Department of Education making $60K for no reason.

Thanks for proving #3 above.

I joined the military during college asswipe, I could have made more money as a lawyer or businessman if I went that route over 20 years ago. I am now in the private sector making money with the military benefits while you are mad I have more than you, shithead.

Don't be so sure. I joined the Navy in '67 and upon separation returned to college. I then worked for 32 years as a LEO and retired with full management benefits in one of the higher paying regions of our country. I also use language without needing to resort to vulgarity to make a point.

It's all about personal responsibility. If you had the education and ability you too could have a job in the public sector and earn the 60k in a "cushy job" (a job whose detail you know nothing about). If you had you might not be so green with envy and filled with hate for others. Since you seem to think 60k is lots of money I must infer you work for less, and that's on you not on anyone else.

Work without meaning is having an MBA which in many cases means a job moving other peoples money around and taking a percentage of that persons labor. See, I too can make judgments about people whose job I know little about; the difference between me and you, I know that's unfair and I recognize how petty such self righteousness is.

Regardless of whose money is being used, the biggest difference between the private and the public sectors is: those whose money is being "moved around" in the private sector most often have hired those moving their money. In the public sector, we get no choice.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Your logic of paying less isn't going to bring better people into Congress doens't make sense....it's pure rationalization of insanity. Continuing to pay them their current high wages and very lucrative benefits isn't helping us, either, because we still do not have the best and brightest in Congress. What does that tell you? They have no idea what it's like to live like regular people, which basically means they have no idea how to enact legislation that will benefit regular people......including wages, retirement, healthcare, living within a budget, etc... I'd rather see farmers, nurses, accountants, doctors, social workers, police officers, SAHM, etc...running Congress because these people know what it's like to live "normally". Get huge amounts of money out of Congress.....make Congress salaries no more than $90k/year (they only work about 6 months out of a year!) and their retirement and healthcare are the same as the public's. The lawyers, lobbyists, professional politicians all need to go...NOW. If that happens, corruption will be reduced to minimal levels.

I did not say we should pay our leaders less or more. I said, "Paying our leaders less is not going to draw more talented people into government...." The problem is not who's in congress. If it were, we would have solved the nation's major problems years ago. The problem is the way government and particular congress operates. We send new people to Washington and they don't have a clue how to solve the problems. Worst yet, even if they did, the pressure from the leadership, dealing with the bureaucracy and the congressional seniority system insures the status quo.

And sending Joe the plumber to Congress will only make things worse

Aside from the monetary corruption, it has everything to do with who we send to Congress. Sending Joe the Plumber to Congress would likely be a lot better than what we have going right now. Are you suggesting that we keep sending lawyers and bankers and corporate idiots and the like into Congress.....because that's worked great for us so far? No. The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results......and that's what's been happening for years. People complain all the time, yet they keep electing the same assholes back into Congress or they elect people who have a ton of money, have political connections to thoroughly corrupt individuals, and/or are part of the Wall Street crowd. Well guess what...they've had their turn trying to run things and all they've....conservatives and liberals alike....done is wreck the country, financially and socially. It has nothing to do with how Congress operates......Congress is dependent on people to run it; if it's fucked up, that's because of the people in it.

Perhaps we should select public "servants" using a lottery system, as suggested by Kurt Vonnegut in "Harrison Bergeron"?

 

[gwennie]

It only makes sense to send people to Congress that understand the law and how to write laws. After all that is their job. People without political knowledge, civic engagement, knowledge of the law, and how government functions would be lost.

Just because people with years of experience in government, law, and business are unable to solve America's problems, is no reason to send people to Washington who don't know what their doing. "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" may be a good movie, but in the real world, Washington politics will make mincemeat out of them.

Working class Americans without the skills and experience needed to survive the political minefields in Washington are almost sure to become puppets for Washington power brokers and lobbyists.

You continue to lose your argument......the people in DC are puppets now, with all the corruption that goes along with it. Why you insist on thinking that keeping the same types of people (or the same people) in power will somehow fix the problem shows a total lack of common sense. Lawyers, bankers, and the like have done absolutely nothing but make the system as corrupt as possible. It seems to me that an arrogant attitude of "nobody else is smart enough to do the job" reaks of elitist bullshit.....an assumption that people are generally too stupid to understand what the constitution and bill of rights says. In case you don't know, both of them are written in plain language that most 6th graders can understand. It's not complicated material.

Well, if you think Joe the plumber, would be less susceptible to corruption, knows how to deal with a deeply divided Congress, and has some new ideas, then you need to talk him into running.

YOu still don't get it, do ya......the ENTIRE Congress should be tossed out and replaced with regular people. Throw them all out and start fresh....and my guess is that problems would get fixed rather quickly if we took away the possibility of corruption. Common sense goes a long way.......

 

[rightwinger]

What job should they be compared to? CEO and board of a company?

No, that would imply that elected government representatives have some knowledge, training, or skill in management. Prime example: our current POTUS. Guy's got nothing that would apply in a real business environment. Hell, he's not even qualified to flip burgers at McD's if you look at his resume.

Are there a lot of two term Presidents flipping burgers at McDs ??

 

[rightwinger]

You continue to lose your argument......the people in DC are puppets now, with all the corruption that goes along with it. Why you insist on thinking that keeping the same types of people (or the same people) in power will somehow fix the problem shows a total lack of common sense. Lawyers, bankers, and the like have done absolutely nothing but make the system as corrupt as possible. It seems to me that an arrogant attitude of "nobody else is smart enough to do the job" reaks of elitist bullshit.....an assumption that people are generally too stupid to understand what the constitution and bill of rights says. In case you don't know, both of them are written in plain language that most 6th graders can understand. It's not complicated material.

Well, if you think Joe the plumber, would be less susceptible to corruption, knows how to deal with a deeply divided Congress, and has some new ideas, then you need to talk him into running.

YOu still don't get it, do ya......the ENTIRE Congress should be tossed out and replaced with regular people. Throw them all out and start fresh....and my guess is that problems would get fixed rather quickly if we took away the possibility of corruption. Common sense goes a long way.......

Damn...that is scary

Conservatives actually believe it too

 

[Seawytch]

You continue to lose your argument......the people in DC are puppets now, with all the corruption that goes along with it. Why you insist on thinking that keeping the same types of people (or the same people) in power will somehow fix the problem shows a total lack of common sense. Lawyers, bankers, and the like have done absolutely nothing but make the system as corrupt as possible. It seems to me that an arrogant attitude of "nobody else is smart enough to do the job" reaks of elitist bullshit.....an assumption that people are generally too stupid to understand what the constitution and bill of rights says. In case you don't know, both of them are written in plain language that most 6th graders can understand. It's not complicated material.

Well, if you think Joe the plumber, would be less susceptible to corruption, knows how to deal with a deeply divided Congress, and has some new ideas, then you need to talk him into running.

YOu still don't get it, do ya......the ENTIRE Congress should be tossed out and replaced with regular people. Throw them all out and start fresh....and my guess is that problems would get fixed rather quickly if we took away the possibility of corruption. Common sense goes a long way.......

And naturally you didn't vote for any incumbents, right?