Do salaries of government reflect US citizens?

[Gadawg73]

Many very competent leaders that would be a hell of a lot better than what we have now will never run.
They would have to take a huge pay cut.
Perks and benefits may be lavish for representatives but their pay is not.

 

[FJO]

What would you say the comparable private sector jobs are for congress and the president?

Hard for me to think of one which would compare to congress. I looked up the average days worked by congress per year and they are working about 180 days a year. Soldier's, firefighters, teachers, police work far harder and is paid a lot less whild putting so much more on the line to include their lives.


2010 vacation schedule:


January 1st-January 12: 1 1/2 weeks
February 15th-February 19th: 1 week
March 29th-April 12th: 2 weeks
May 31st-June 4th: 1 week
July 5th-July 9th: 1 week
August 9th-Sept 12th: 5 weeks.
October 11th-December 31st: 12 weeks.

So that is 23.5 weeks not in session.

That is just the tip of the iceberg. They also have free first class health care that ordinary citizen can only dream of. Ditto with pensions and retirement eligibility.

And of course they the only ones in the country who can set their salary.

It is safe to say that none of them ever wanted to SERVE. They just wanted to get rich.

 

[rightwinger]

What would you say the comparable private sector jobs are for congress and the president?

Hard for me to think of one which would compare to congress. I looked up the average days worked by congress per year and they are working about 180 days a year. Soldier's, firefighters, teachers, police work far harder and is paid a lot less whild putting so much more on the line to include their lives.


2010 vacation schedule:


January 1st-January 12: 1 1/2 weeks
February 15th-February 19th: 1 week
March 29th-April 12th: 2 weeks
May 31st-June 4th: 1 week
July 5th-July 9th: 1 week
August 9th-Sept 12th: 5 weeks.
October 11th-December 31st: 12 weeks.

So that is 23.5 weeks not in session.

That is just the tip of the iceberg. They also have free first class health care that ordinary citizen can only dream of. Ditto with pensions and retirement eligibility.

And of course they the only ones in the country who can set their salary.

It is safe to say that none of them ever wanted to SERVE. They just wanted to get rich.

Congress gets the same Federal Healthcare coverage as any other federal employee and they pay for it

They also get Federal Retirement which is Social Security (yes Congress has been in Social Security since 1984). They also get one percent of their salary for every year they serve. For twenty years in Congress, they receive $34,000 a year pension at the age of 56

 

[Gadawg73]

Hard for me to think of one which would compare to congress. I looked up the average days worked by congress per year and they are working about 180 days a year. Soldier's, firefighters, teachers, police work far harder and is paid a lot less whild putting so much more on the line to include their lives.


2010 vacation schedule:


January 1st-January 12: 1 1/2 weeks
February 15th-February 19th: 1 week
March 29th-April 12th: 2 weeks
May 31st-June 4th: 1 week
July 5th-July 9th: 1 week
August 9th-Sept 12th: 5 weeks.
October 11th-December 31st: 12 weeks.

So that is 23.5 weeks not in session.

That is just the tip of the iceberg. They also have free first class health care that ordinary citizen can only dream of. Ditto with pensions and retirement eligibility.

And of course they the only ones in the country who can set their salary.

It is safe to say that none of them ever wanted to SERVE. They just wanted to get rich.

Congress gets the same Federal Healthcare coverage as any other federal employee and they pay for it

They also get Federal Retirement which is Social Security (yes Congress has been in Social Security since 1984). They also get one percent of their salary for every year they serve. For twenty years in Congress, they receive $34,000 a year pension at the age of 56

They should get no pension or any other benefits when they leave public service.
Their jobs are far different than a government employee job.

 

[FJO]

.

I don't have a problem with those salaries, but outside of proper security for ex-Presidents and VP's, I have a problem with the post-term benefits.

Serve your term (which should be limited), get the fuck out, get a job, no goodies after you serve. You aren't royalty.

.

I was close to get shot by one of Jimmy Carter's security guards in the Summer of 1995.

We were doing some work to help the victims of the Flint River Flood in 1994 to recover, but on the Wednesday of the week that we spent there, we had free time to do as we pleased.

So, a couple friends of mine and I explored the Civil War prison at Andersonville and drove around in Plains, GE. At one point we saw this old couple sauntering down the street, followed by a person who appeared to be female, wearing a yellow rain puncho. Suddenly, one of my friends exclaimed: Look they are President Carter and Rosalyn. So I made sudden stop, get out of the car and face a gun pointed at me. Had I made a sudden move I might have been dead.

Both President Carter and his wife were gracious and congratulated us on our effort to help the flood victims.

This was in 1995, 15 years after the worst president in U.S. history has been dispatched to retirement, which by all accounts was not well deserved.

Still drawing thousands of taxpayer dollars to protect a past president whose greatest achievement in life is bashing America abroad.

 

[Wry Catcher]

•Congress members (Representatives and Senators): $174,000
•Senate and House Majority/Minority Leaders: $193,400
•Cabinet members: $199,700
•Speaker of the House: $223,500
•Vice President: $230,700
•President: $400,000

The bottom line is that I feel that our government is totally out of touch with average citizens. The salaries above do not in the least expose all the ADDITIONAL perks these individuals acquire as a result of their power & prestige. They have the best of free healthcare and transportation and protection and luncheons/dinners and insider reports, and pensions. Is it any wonder that they are unable to balance a budget or spend wisely. They even vote for their own raises. They have become an embarrassment to the term capitalism, with their air of royal superiority over the "peasantry." Government of the people has evolved into government in spite of the people. All of these individuals owe their election to the hard work of volunteers and sponging off the general public for donations to their cause (or might we say election). Perhaps the only solution is a general revolt, but I fear that would only establish a far more evil regime. However, this insult to the American public simply cannot continue. Do we need a second American Revolution or another Civil War? What other choice is there --- we have had both Democrats and Republicans in office. Neither has voted in a wage decrease (they feel they are far too important).

We don't need a revolution or a civil war - only fools suggest such a course of action. We need to do several doable things, including:
1. Providing the best possible education to our kids;
2. Real reform of how we run elections (repeal CU v. FEC);
3. Real reform of how members of Congress are lobbied;
4. Single issue legislation - no riders
5. Protect public officials from libel and slander, criminalize such behavior.

 

[Gadawg73]

•Congress members (Representatives and Senators): $174,000
•Senate and House Majority/Minority Leaders: $193,400
•Cabinet members: $199,700
•Speaker of the House: $223,500
•Vice President: $230,700
•President: $400,000

The bottom line is that I feel that our government is totally out of touch with average citizens. The salaries above do not in the least expose all the ADDITIONAL perks these individuals acquire as a result of their power & prestige. They have the best of free healthcare and transportation and protection and luncheons/dinners and insider reports, and pensions. Is it any wonder that they are unable to balance a budget or spend wisely. They even vote for their own raises. They have become an embarrassment to the term capitalism, with their air of royal superiority over the "peasantry." Government of the people has evolved into government in spite of the people. All of these individuals owe their election to the hard work of volunteers and sponging off the general public for donations to their cause (or might we say election). Perhaps the only solution is a general revolt, but I fear that would only establish a far more evil regime. However, this insult to the American public simply cannot continue. Do we need a second American Revolution or another Civil War? What other choice is there --- we have had both Democrats and Republicans in office. Neither has voted in a wage decrease (they feel they are far too important).

We don't need a revolution or a civil war - only fools suggest such a course of action. We need to do several doable things, including:
1. Providing the best possible education to our kids;
2. Real reform of how we run elections (repeal CU v. FEC);
3. Real reform of how members of Congress are lobbied;
4. Single issue legislation - no riders
5. Protect public officials from libel and slander, criminalize such behavior.

1. That is a function of parenting, not government.
2. Donations to political candidates is free speech.
3. With you 100% on that. That is my #1.
4. My #2.
5. They have that protection now and can lie all they want and often do. Worst thing we could ever do is criminalize civil free speech.

 

[Wry Catcher]

•Congress members (Representatives and Senators): $174,000
•Senate and House Majority/Minority Leaders: $193,400
•Cabinet members: $199,700
•Speaker of the House: $223,500
•Vice President: $230,700
•President: $400,000

The bottom line is that I feel that our government is totally out of touch with average citizens. The salaries above do not in the least expose all the ADDITIONAL perks these individuals acquire as a result of their power & prestige. They have the best of free healthcare and transportation and protection and luncheons/dinners and insider reports, and pensions. Is it any wonder that they are unable to balance a budget or spend wisely. They even vote for their own raises. They have become an embarrassment to the term capitalism, with their air of royal superiority over the "peasantry." Government of the people has evolved into government in spite of the people. All of these individuals owe their election to the hard work of volunteers and sponging off the general public for donations to their cause (or might we say election). Perhaps the only solution is a general revolt, but I fear that would only establish a far more evil regime. However, this insult to the American public simply cannot continue. Do we need a second American Revolution or another Civil War? What other choice is there --- we have had both Democrats and Republicans in office. Neither has voted in a wage decrease (they feel they are far too important).

We don't need a revolution or a civil war - only fools suggest such a course of action. We need to do several doable things, including:
1. Providing the best possible education to our kids;
2. Real reform of how we run elections (repeal CU v. FEC);
3. Real reform of how members of Congress are lobbied;
4. Single issue legislation - no riders
5. Protect public officials from libel and slander, criminalize such behavior.

1. That is a function of parenting, not government. It is a function of both
2. Donations to political candidates is free speech. It is bribery
3. With you 100% on that. That is my #1.
4. My #2.
5. They have that protection now and can lie all they want and often do. Worst thing we could ever do is criminalize civil free speech.[/QUOTE

Re #5:

Any intentional false communication, either written or spoken, that harms a person's reputation; decreases the respect, regard, or confidence in which a person is held; or induces disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against a person.

Defamation may be a criminal or civil charge. It encompasses both written statements, known as libel, and spoken statements, called slander.

The probability that a plaintiff will recover damages in a defamation suit depends largely on whether the plaintiff is a public or private figure in the eyes of the law. The public figure law of defamation was first delineated in new york times v. sullivan, 376 U.S. 254, 84 S. Ct. 710, 11 L. Ed. 2d 686 (1964). In Sullivan, the plaintiff, a police official, claimed that false allegations about him appeared in the New York Times, and sued the newspaper for libel. The Supreme Court balanced the plaintiff's interest in preserving his reputation against the public's interest in freedom of expression in the area of political debate. It held that a public official alleging libel must prove actual malice in order to recover damages. The Court declared that the First Amendment protects open and robust debate on public issues even when such debate includes "vehement, caustic, unpleasantly sharp attacks on government and public officials." A public official or other plaintiff who has voluntarily assumed a position in the public eye must prove that defamatory statements were made with knowledge that they were false or with reckless disregard of whether they were false.

See Link: Criminal libel legal definition of Criminal libel. Criminal libel synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

 

[Papageorgio]

Hard for me to think of one which would compare to congress. I looked up the average days worked by congress per year and they are working about 180 days a year. Soldier's, firefighters, teachers, police work far harder and is paid a lot less whild putting so much more on the line to include their lives.


2010 vacation schedule:


January 1st-January 12: 1 1/2 weeks
February 15th-February 19th: 1 week
March 29th-April 12th: 2 weeks
May 31st-June 4th: 1 week
July 5th-July 9th: 1 week
August 9th-Sept 12th: 5 weeks.
October 11th-December 31st: 12 weeks.

So that is 23.5 weeks not in session.

That is just the tip of the iceberg. They also have free first class health care that ordinary citizen can only dream of. Ditto with pensions and retirement eligibility.

And of course they the only ones in the country who can set their salary.

It is safe to say that none of them ever wanted to SERVE. They just wanted to get rich.

Congress gets the same Federal Healthcare coverage as any other federal employee and they pay for it

They also get Federal Retirement which is Social Security (yes Congress has been in Social Security since 1984). They also get one percent of their salary for every year they serve. For twenty years in Congress, they receive $34,000 a year pension at the age of 56

Can you share the link with us please. Thanks.

 

[Gadawg73]

We don't need a revolution or a civil war - only fools suggest such a course of action. We need to do several doable things, including:
1. Providing the best possible education to our kids;
2. Real reform of how we run elections (repeal CU v. FEC);
3. Real reform of how members of Congress are lobbied;
4. Single issue legislation - no riders
5. Protect public officials from libel and slander, criminalize such behavior.

1. That is a function of parenting, not government. It is a function of both
2. Donations to political candidates is free speech. It is bribery
3. With you 100% on that. That is my #1.
4. My #2.
5. They have that protection now and can lie all they want and often do. Worst thing we could ever do is criminalize civil free speech.[/QUOTE

Re #5:

Any intentional false communication, either written or spoken, that harms a person's reputation; decreases the respect, regard, or confidence in which a person is held; or induces disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against a person.

Defamation may be a criminal or civil charge. It encompasses both written statements, known as libel, and spoken statements, called slander.

The probability that a plaintiff will recover damages in a defamation suit depends largely on whether the plaintiff is a public or private figure in the eyes of the law. The public figure law of defamation was first delineated in new york times v. sullivan, 376 U.S. 254, 84 S. Ct. 710, 11 L. Ed. 2d 686 (1964). In Sullivan, the plaintiff, a police official, claimed that false allegations about him appeared in the New York Times, and sued the newspaper for libel. The Supreme Court balanced the plaintiff's interest in preserving his reputation against the public's interest in freedom of expression in the area of political debate. It held that a public official alleging libel must prove actual malice in order to recover damages. The Court declared that the First Amendment protects open and robust debate on public issues even when such debate includes "vehement, caustic, unpleasantly sharp attacks on government and public officials." A public official or other plaintiff who has voluntarily assumed a position in the public eye must prove that defamatory statements were made with knowledge that they were false or with reckless disregard of whether they were false.

See Link: Criminal libel legal definition of Criminal libel. Criminal libel synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

All you have is a dictionary.
I go by THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.

 

[Gadawg73]

Where in the Constitution is education a right to be paid for by government?

 

[Gadawg73]

Who do we want to be the judges of what is FACT and what is OPINION and throw men in prison as a result?
Government?
The Founders knew better.

 

[Sunshine]

What would you say the comparable private sector jobs are for congress and the president?

What would you consider a 'comparable private sector job?' I don't see too many ads for 'lawmaker.'

 

[Sunshine]

That is just the tip of the iceberg. They also have free first class health care that ordinary citizen can only dream of. Ditto with pensions and retirement eligibility.

And of course they the only ones in the country who can set their salary.

It is safe to say that none of them ever wanted to SERVE. They just wanted to get rich.

Congress gets the same Federal Healthcare coverage as any other federal employee and they pay for it

They also get Federal Retirement which is Social Security (yes Congress has been in Social Security since 1984). They also get one percent of their salary for every year they serve. For twenty years in Congress, they receive $34,000 a year pension at the age of 56

Can you share the link with us please. Thanks.

You forgot FERS. That is in addition to SS. It is 1% of the average of your high three earning years x the number of years you have worked. For over 10 or 20 years of employment, I don't recall which, there is a multiplier of 1.5%. SS may be just that, but FERS considerably increases their retirement pay. AND they can put money into what is called the Thrift Savings Plan. The government matches the first 2% of their salary dollar for dollar and the next 1% 50c on the dollar. Who else do you know who is getting 100% interest on their investments? Or even 50%? At retirement they can roll this over into an IRA or use it to purchase an annuity. And they get their health insurance for what the federal employees pay which is considerably lower than any medigap insurance out there.

http://www.opm.gov/retire/pre/fers/computation.asp

http://www.opm.gov/retire/related/tsp/index.asp

http://www.opm.gov/retire/insurance/index.asp

 

[rightwinger]

That is just the tip of the iceberg. They also have free first class health care that ordinary citizen can only dream of. Ditto with pensions and retirement eligibility.

And of course they the only ones in the country who can set their salary.

It is safe to say that none of them ever wanted to SERVE. They just wanted to get rich.

Congress gets the same Federal Healthcare coverage as any other federal employee and they pay for it

They also get Federal Retirement which is Social Security (yes Congress has been in Social Security since 1984). They also get one percent of their salary for every year they serve. For twenty years in Congress, they receive $34,000 a year pension at the age of 56

Can you share the link with us please. Thanks.

snopes.com: Congressional Pensions

 

[GoneBezerk]

Liberals talk shit about money spent on the military with the free healthcare and their paychecks, all the while Democraps have created more expensive Govt GS jobs in DC that typically start out at $60K doing meaningless work in the Department of Education, HHS, etc.

You see it isn't ok for some guy to make $30K in the Army doing 6 months in Afghanistan each year, but is a-ok for liberals to create $60K/year cushy jobs for their kind pushing paper in DC in an office of 100 other lazy ass swine doing the same job.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

They should all be fired is what they should be. All of them.

And you get the opportunity to do that every few years. Amazingly few actually do get fired...so it's usually "that state's guy" that needs to be fired.

I thought that about all the Wall Street fucks that actually crashed this economy. I thought every one of them should have been indicted. They got golden parachutes instead.

Right. Except it wasn't Wall St. that crashed the economy. It was congress and the federal reserve.

But I agree there should have been no parachutes and this last congress should have been replaced.

So the problem is really with the public being ignorant. So this whole thing will continue.

 

[rightwinger]

Congress gets the same Federal Healthcare coverage as any other federal employee and they pay for it

They also get Federal Retirement which is Social Security (yes Congress has been in Social Security since 1984). They also get one percent of their salary for every year they serve. For twenty years in Congress, they receive $34,000 a year pension at the age of 56

Can you share the link with us please. Thanks.

You forgot FERS. That is in addition to SS. It is 1% of the average of your high three earning years x the number of years you have worked. For over 10 or 20 years of employment, I don't recall which, there is a multiplier of 1.5%. SS may be just that, but FERS considerably increases their retirement pay. AND they can put money into what is called the Thrift Savings Plan. The government matches the first 2% of their salary dollar for dollar and the next 1% 50c on the dollar. Who else do you know who is getting 100% interest on their investments? Or even 50%? At retirement they can roll this over into an IRA or use it to purchase an annuity. And they get their health insurance for what the federal employees pay which is considerably lower than any medigap insurance out there.

FERS Computation

Thrift Savings Plan (TSP)

Insurance Benefits

Basically, there is a three tiered retirement plan. Social Security, FERS and TSP

FERS is like you say (and I posted earlier ) one percent of your high three salary for every year. In my example that would be around $34,000 after twenty years . You contribute 1.3% of your salary above what you pay into SS
TSP is identical to a 401K. You contribute into it and receive matching contributions on up to 5% of your salary ( around $6000 a year)
No different than anyone else who works for the Federal Government.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Liberals talk shit about money spent on the military with the free healthcare and their paychecks, all the while Democraps have created more expensive Govt GS jobs in DC that typically start out at $60K doing meaningless work in the Department of Education, HHS, etc.

You see it isn't ok for some guy to make $30K in the Army doing 6 months in Afghanistan each year, but is a-ok for liberals to create $60K/year cushy jobs for their kind pushing paper in DC in an office of 100 other lazy ass swine doing the same job.

It's all about personal responsibility. If you had the education and ability you too could have a job in the public sector and earn the 60k in a "cushy job" (a job whose detail you know nothing about). If you had you might not be so green with envy and filled with hate for others. Since you seem to think 60k is lots of money I must infer you work for less, and that's on you not on anyone else.

 

[FA_Q2]

.

I don't have a problem with those salaries, but outside of proper security for ex-Presidents and VP's, I have a problem with the post-term benefits.

Serve your term (which should be limited), get the fuck out, get a job, no goodies after you serve. You aren't royalty.

.

I actually disagree.
Personally, I think that politicians should get paid FAR MORE than they currently do. I am talking double/triple maybe more. They should also get better retirement benifits.

Now, before your heads all explaode, I think this should come with one major caviet:

A ploitician should never be able to attain another source of income ever again. Period.

Yes, that is rather radical but I think that it would solve many of the problems that we face now where politicians are essentially bought off with promises of future jobs )no one actually thinks Gingrich was worth what he made as a 'historian' do you) and the insider trading that they are using to make millions and millions. After all, how can you give a politician the ultimate power to legislate an industry that he owns stocks or other assets in and will stand to benefit greatly from the legislation that he is voting on. In the same manner that a judge must recuse themselves from a case that they are no longer impartial in, a politician should have to remove themselves from benefiting on the legislation that they are passing.

That, possibly coupled with a publicly financing elections (still not wholly sold on that but LadyL made one hell of an argument for it) and reforming the tax code to actually be about funding the government and not about payoffs or social engineering would do wonders for our political system IMHO.