DADT repeal: Question for Republicans/Conservatives.

[Sunni Man]

The repeal of the DADT was a sad day for America.

It's sickening that we now depend on faggots to defend our nation.

You are out of line with that BS

But you might want to explain why it is successful in other forces.

Take your time, bigotry needs room.

What makes you say that Homo's in the military have been successful ?

As far as I know there is no nation that has faggots in is military and has fought a major war

 

[Texanmike]

The repeal of the DADT was a sad day for America.

It's sickening that we now depend on faggots to defend our nation.

You are out of line with that BS

But you might want to explain why it is successful in other forces.

Take your time, bigotry needs room.

Successful? Because everyone fears the vaunted french army right? The british have been so relevant for the last 50 years... oh... wait. Look, I cannot speculate on whether it will be the downfall of our military or not... I can say that you should not make points without thinking them just a little further than that because there is exactly ONE military in the world that strikes fear in the hearts of the world. 20 Sept 2011 they changed the landscape.

I will tell you that I think this is part of the freefall of the military and that we probably are on the tail end of our military dominance. The DADT repeal isn't the reason, it is a symptom. It is another example of the lack of good order and discpline we are experiencing in the military. This isn't a civilian job where you get to question orders or "talk about your feelings". You're gay? Who cares? I don't want you to come out. I won't want you to stay in. Don't like gay jokes? I don't like redneck jokes. I listen to them. I hate momma jokes. My mom died of cancer. I listen to them. I'm in the fucking military. This isn't elementary school. The enemy doesn't care about your feelings or who you fuck. If you like cookie or bananna they don't care. They want to shoot you. The guy next to you doesn't care either. People fight in the military. I can't tell you how many fights have been covered up in the military. Tell me. The first time a guy who's openly gay gets the shit beat out of him do you think that's not going to make him a poster boy for all of the rainbow organizations in the country? Next we're going to institute strict "no fighting" policies in the military. Time out cards? Stress cards? What the fuck is wrong with you people? We don't need more time outs, we don't need more hugs and we don't need more sexuality in the military.

The reason behind the whole DADT was that everyone is the same. In the military, you're not gay, you're a number. You're not straight, you're a number. 10 years ago in the military if you came in talking about some pokemon or something stupid you probably would have gotten your ass beat. Now... we have an MEO policy.

The civilians should stay the fuck out of the military and what the military does. Go enjoy your freedom, enjoy you lives and ignore what goes on behind our closed doors. Morons.

Mike

 

[Texanmike]

The repeal of the DADT was a sad day for America.

It's sickening that we now depend on faggots to defend our nation.

You are out of line with that BS

But you might want to explain why it is successful in other forces.

Take your time, bigotry needs room.

What makes you say that Homo's in the military have been successful ?

As far as I know there is no nation that has faggots in is military and has fought a major war

No moron. This isn't about "faggots" this is about discipline. The whole debate isn't about your feelings about sexuality, its not about what you are or are not comfortable with. If you're gay and in the military stfu, don't be a flamer, take a number and fit in. This debate isn't so that you can spread your hatred or filth, this is about uniformity and we lost a little of it on the 20th of september. You shouldn't morn "them" being in the military. You should morn the fact that uniformity, order and discipline took a huge hit. That is THE only reason to be upset about this one. It is also the only thing that matters.

Mike

 

[Sunni Man]

The repeal of the DADT was a sad day for America.

It's sickening that we now depend on faggots to defend our nation.

You've been depending on them the whole time...now you just know it.

There has always been rapists, child molesters,homosexuals, and other perverts in the military.

But that does not mean that we should except their perversion and call it normal.

 

[WorldWatcher]

All sexuality belongs in the closet and private. It's no one else's damned business.

Sex wasn’t the issue, it is a small part of what it is to be gay, as with heterosexuals.

The US military is now in compliance with the Constitution, and everyone should be in support of that, regardless his political ideology.

God Dammit. You need to read the constitution. There is no right to serve in the Military. There is no right to be gay and be part of a protected class. I don't care if you are gay or straight, personally but at least be literate if you are going to write about the constitution.

Mike

Your call to read the Constitution to search for rights leads me to assume that you are of the opinion that rights don't exist unless they are enumerated in the Constitution - would that be true?



>>>>

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

The military is not civilian life. You dint have the freedoms of the rest of the country. It is not a drafting military where you have no choice. They are not run via the bill of rights or constitution.

The military is a killing machine, they have their own laws, laws that have been around a long time and have served this nation quite well in past engagements. As a solder, it's not your job to ask why, it's your job to do and if that means charge a machine gun position on the top of hill, that's what it means.

You must have absolute trust that everyone in a combat position is on the same page. Not just for your safety, but for everyone else in the units safety and taken further out to the battalion and front level. Everyone must trust that everyone will do as they are ordered.

Recuits have their heads shaved to remove their individuality. It is an Army of One ... One Army, not one individual.

When you insert into the mix anything that breeds suspision in a shipmate or platoon gunner, you mess with that level of trust.

Woman and men in combat situations is dangerous, not because of the sexual contact, but because of a males natural instint to protect the female. If she is in danger, there is a chance that he will violate orders to protect her.

The fear is a gay male is one of a possible sexual rejection by someone in his foxhole and what effect that will have. Do you trust the man that you just turned away? Does he have your back or will he hold a grudge?

Not this is not an issue this will be resolved in time one way or another. Do not think that the issue is closed because of something was passed or repealled or enacted. The military will adjust to the new guideline and if problems arise from it, they will patition the Pres to change the ruling. And guess what, the pres will weigh the evidence and make another ruling. The protection of this nation is the goal, not making someone feel better about themselves

Firehorse is right. War IS NOT like anything you could imagine, unless you've been there. Want to see how low to the ground someone can get? Fire an AK-47 at them and they will BECOME part of the dirt. The baser instincts of a man tend to find their way to the surface when a group of people are engaged in combat. Miss Manners is NOT consulted when your hunkered down somewhere just trying to survive. The military drills things into your mind so that they become second nature. Learn them well and you might survive. You HAVE to trust and lean on the man next to you.

The relationship between men or women under fire is different from anything else. And it's very hard to explain unless you've been there. This isn't a game and it isn't a group session where we all get to see how good we can feel about each other.

Suffice it to say that I see trouble ahead with this thing. I feel like there is going to be some very ugly consequences about this. I hope not, but I really feel that there are going to be some ugly incidents. Some men who were homosexuals have performed well in combat. BUT, usually they kept that part of their lives secret from most if not all of their comrades.

I really hope I'm wrong... but I don't think so. We'll see...

 

[WorldWatcher]

God Dammit. You need to read the constitution. There is no right to serve in the Military. There is no right to be gay and be part of a protected class. I don't care if you are gay or straight, personally but at least be literate if you are going to write about the constitution.

Mike

You are correct, there is no right to serve in the military. It is a privilege. However, having one group of people serving under one set of rules and another group serving under a different set of rules IS why a Federal Judge ruled DADT unconstitutional. THAT does NOT pass the constitutional smell test.

Nor does a thousand other things that the military does on a regular basis. You lose your right to a trial by jury, freedom of speech and are subject to another set of laws that essentially say that you can be killed for anything. You fail to understand that the privileges within the constitution are simply not afforded to those that stand up to protect it. Period. You might think that there is some vaunted right for fair hiring in the military but that is complete bullshit. If the military feels that you do not belong there then you do not belong there. There is open and admitted sexual discrimination in the military right now and there is nothing that is going to be done about it because it is a necessity for the military to operate, period. This case is no different.

Personally, I think the president should have told the federal judge to pound sand because the judicial branch has no business dictating what polices that the military follows. That is under the executive branch. Then again, when congress passed DADT, the president should have said the same thing. Again, they have no right to be establishing military policy. When Obama wanted DADT gone, all it should have taken was a simple order given by him. Done, that is all that there is to it. Unfortunately, everyone seems to think that they have a right to dictate what the military does. It is bullshit.

Just a couple of things.


1. "You lose your right to a trial by jury..."

Military court proceedings (trials) are classified as either a General Court Martial or a Special Court Martial. In each case there is a Jury of military members that rule on guilt or innocence of the accused. Under "Rule 903. Accused’s elections on composition of court-martial" the accused can request the case be tried before a Judge only, but that is an request by the accused. If they don't request it they get a jury trial.

You do not loose the right to trial by jury.​

2. "Personally, I think the president should have told the federal judge to pound sand because the judicial branch has no business dictating what polices that the military follows."

The military is not exempt from Article III and the SCOTUS being the highest court in the land. Congress has established a parrallel court system for military matters due to special rules that are applied by the United States Code to the military, but both system exist under the SCOTUS.​

3. "Then again, when congress passed DADT, the president should have said the same thing. Again, they have no right to be establishing military policy."

Incorrect, under the United States Constitution (Article 1 Section 8) Congress is explicitly empowered to establish the rules and regulations for the governing of the military forces. That provision is one reason that the United States is such a great nation, the military is not an independent arm of the government, the military is explicitly placed under civilian control with the President (as Commander-in-Chief) and Congress setting policy (or rules and regulations if you will).​

I won't say I always agree with the rules that Congress makes, but the fact is the Constitution specifically grants them that authority.

>>>>

 

[Bigfoot]

If I had to serve in wartime with the sick bastards I shoot them myself.

 

[jillian]

All sexuality belongs in the closet and private. It's no one else's damned business.

Sex wasn’t the issue, it is a small part of what it is to be gay, as with heterosexuals.

The US military is now in compliance with the Constitution, and everyone should be in support of that, regardless his political ideology.

God Dammit. You need to read the constitution. There is no right to serve in the Military. There is no right to be gay and be part of a protected class. I don't care if you are gay or straight, personally but at least be literate if you are going to write about the constitution.

Mike

there is no right to serve in the military.

but there is a right to not be discriminated against if you do.

or do you think those mean liberal judges shouldn't have forced the military to desegregate either?

 

[Katzndogz]

The repeal of the DADT was a sad day for America.

It's sickening that we now depend on faggots to defend our nation.

You are out of line with that BS

But you might want to explain why it is successful in other forces.

Take your time, bigotry needs room.

Successful? Because everyone fears the vaunted french army right? The british have been so relevant for the last 50 years... oh... wait. Look, I cannot speculate on whether it will be the downfall of our military or not... I can say that you should not make points without thinking them just a little further than that because there is exactly ONE military in the world that strikes fear in the hearts of the world. 20 Sept 2011 they changed the landscape.

I will tell you that I think this is part of the freefall of the military and that we probably are on the tail end of our military dominance. The DADT repeal isn't the reason, it is a symptom. It is another example of the lack of good order and discpline we are experiencing in the military. This isn't a civilian job where you get to question orders or "talk about your feelings". You're gay? Who cares? I don't want you to come out. I won't want you to stay in. Mike

Open gays have been successfully integrated into the military of many nations. That's not open to dispute. That sometime after open homosexuals are successfully integrated into the military that same military becomes somewhat less successful is not open to dispute either. With the exception of Israel, which is a case unto itself as each and every person in Israel lives under conditions that no one else does. I agree, it is a symptom, it is a symptom of a general degredation of the entire culture.

 

[WorldWatcher]

If I had to serve in wartime with the sick bastards I shoot them myself.

So you would put yourself on the same plane as Major Hasan?


.....................................Do us all a favor and stay a civilian while your betters protect your freedoms.



>>>>

 

[jillian]

To Protect Gay's in the Military. That's part of the problem with revisionist History. You need to keep your stories straight. Oh My! I didn't mean to offend you by using the word straight! Shit! I did it again!

that's not correct. DADT was Bill Clinton's concession to the right and was a compromise. it was also a mistake but then again, so was NAFTA.... clinton's other concession to the right.

 

[Photonic]

You are out of line with that BS

But you might want to explain why it is successful in other forces.

Take your time, bigotry needs room.

What makes you say that Homo's in the military have been successful ?

As far as I know there is no nation that has faggots in is military and has fought a major war

No moron. This isn't about "faggots" this is about discipline. The whole debate isn't about your feelings about sexuality, its not about what you are or are not comfortable with. If you're gay and in the military stfu, don't be a flamer, take a number and fit in. This debate isn't so that you can spread your hatred or filth, this is about uniformity and we lost a little of it on the 20th of september. You shouldn't morn "them" being in the military. You should morn the fact that uniformity, order and discipline took a huge hit. That is THE only reason to be upset about this one. It is also the only thing that matters.

Mike

So they should enact a sweeping DADT for homosexual AND heterosexuals?

Do you have any idea what that would do to those in service?

A degraded soldier is an ineffective soldier.

 

[Sunni Man]

If I had to serve in wartime with the sick bastards I shoot them myself.

Thankfully when I was in the military we did not have any faggots serving that we knew about.

If we would have had a faggot in our unit.

" It " would have been the first casualty in the next firefight..

 

[WorldWatcher]

To Protect Gay's in the Military. That's part of the problem with revisionist History. You need to keep your stories straight. Oh My! I didn't mean to offend you by using the word straight! Shit! I did it again!

that's not correct. DADT was Bill Clinton's concession to the right and was a compromise. it was also a mistake but then again, so was NAFTA.... clinton's other concession to the right.

IIRC, prior to that time the ban on homosexual in the military was contained in a DOD Directive, something as C-n-C Clinton could order reversed. He campaigned on the issue and stated that if elected he would reverse the DOD policy. To prevent his ability to do that, Congress lead by Social Conservatives (not Republican's - Social Conservatives) put the same language from the DOD Directive into the United States Code (10 USC 654) as part of the National Defense Authorization Act which is what funds the ENTIRE military. If Clinton had vetoed the legislation, it would have defunded the military for the next fiscal year.

That resulted in the compromise, Congress got the ban on homosexuals enacted into the United States Code but the military remained funded and Clinton issued an Executive Order requiring DOD not to ask people if they were homosexual.

Due to sloppy language that something that most people don't understand, "DADT" was not part of the law, DADT was simply an Executive Order. The law still existed where homosexuality was a disqualifying condition for service.


>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

If I had to serve in wartime with the sick bastards I shoot them myself.

Thankfully when I was in the military we did not have any faggots serving that we knew about.

If we would have had a faggot in our unit.

" It " would have been the first casualty in the next firefight..

The national stage needs more like you to step up to the microphone and speak loudly.



............................... Your actions would ensure passage by voter referendum of Same-sex Civil Marriage in all 50 states.


>>>>

 

[Photonic]

If I had to serve in wartime with the sick bastards I shoot them myself.

Thankfully when I was in the military we did not have any faggots serving that we knew about.

If we would have had a faggot in our unit.

" It " would have been the first casualty in the next firefight..

The national stage needs more like you to step up to the microphone and speak loudly.



............................... Your actions would ensure passage by voter referendum of Same-sex Civil Marriage in all 50 states.


>>>>

I doubt he was ever in the service. We don't shoot our own brother-in-arms. Asshole.

 

[Texanmike]

If I had to serve in wartime with the sick bastards I shoot them myself.

So you would put yourself on the same plane as Major Hasan?


.....................................Do us all a favor and stay a civilian while your betters protect your freedoms.



>>>>

Dude, you could not be more wrong. I would edit your post but that gets me a warning. Here... let me fix it for you.

So you would put yourself on the same plane as Major Hasan?


.....................................Do us all a favor and go kill yourself. Thank every person who provides you the freedom to be an ignorant bigoted ass or just go die. Your choice.

Again.. that was not a quote, that was a mock quote and it is CLEAR that I didn't edit what he said.

Mike

 

[WorldWatcher]

If I had to serve in wartime with the sick bastards I shoot them myself.

So you would put yourself on the same plane as Major Hasan?


.....................................Do us all a favor and stay a civilian while your betters protect your freedoms.



>>>>

Dude, you could not be more wrong. I would edit your post but that gets me a warning. Here... let me fix it for you.

So you would put yourself on the same plane as Major Hasan?


.....................................Do us all a favor and go kill yourself. Thank every person who provides you the freedom to be an ignorant bigoted ass or just go die. Your choice.

Again.. that was not a quote, that was a mock quote and it is CLEAR that I didn't edit what he said.

Mike

You think you should kill yourself for what you said? WOW. I just asked that you stay a civilian and leave the defense of liberty to the rest of us. Don't be so hard on yourself.



>>>>

 

[Texanmike]

What makes you say that Homo's in the military have been successful ?

As far as I know there is no nation that has faggots in is military and has fought a major war

No moron. This isn't about "faggots" this is about discipline. The whole debate isn't about your feelings about sexuality, its not about what you are or are not comfortable with. If you're gay and in the military stfu, don't be a flamer, take a number and fit in. This debate isn't so that you can spread your hatred or filth, this is about uniformity and we lost a little of it on the 20th of september. You shouldn't morn "them" being in the military. You should morn the fact that uniformity, order and discipline took a huge hit. That is THE only reason to be upset about this one. It is also the only thing that matters.

Mike

So they should enact a sweeping DADT for homosexual AND heterosexuals?

Do you have any idea what that would do to those in service?

A degraded soldier is an ineffective soldier.

Yes they should enact DADT for everybody. I don't need to hear about your sexual conquests. Do you know how many problems exist in the military because of the rumor mill that is the dorm room? I've watched all kinds of disasters happen because some guy comes to work bragging about a chick he banged... mentions a name and it happens to be a girl in the next office. You want to talk about ineffective Airmen. Yep. THAT is how you make someone ineffective. You want to do it on your off duty time, what the hell ever. Don't do it at work. Same policy should be applied to everyone. Part of the problem is that we have this Facebook, everybody needs to be a celebrity frenzy where people invite everyone who clicks "accept" on an invite into their lives. The military, in case people have forgotten, is about conformity. That is what makes it work. This isn't like when you go get a job at your local IBM. You have everybody from a different background. You aren't put in with your best friend to do a job its a complete stranger. When you start talking about what makes you different you only invite problems. That's not what the happy shiny media wants us to believe, they want us to believe that the "diversity" of the military is what makes it great. Bullshit. What makes the military different is that people aren't different. You come to work and it doesn't matter which "c" word you have, or if you're ugly or tall or skinny, blonde hair, black hair... the system doesn't care. You come in you work when you're told and how you're told. You spend the entire time grunting and complainging about it and how unfair it is. Then 10 years in you look at the "kids" coming in now and you realize the first 10 wasn't really that bad. You then realize that at 18-24 you were doing things other people dream about and when the flag goes up and down every day that it represents you because you represented it. While you are being groomed you never understand why you get up at the butt crack of dawn, work long hours when there "isn't a need". It isn't until you supervise a few people that you understand why all of that happens. Ultimately you as a supervisor have to take care of your troops. That is what you are supposed to do. You take care of them personally, you deal with their life problems etc, but the system doesn't care. Encouraging people to "voice their differences" only encourages preferential treatment. A policy against preferential treatment? Good luck. ENCOURAGE people to not talk about their differences. Kids need to learn to STFU publically and take their problems in private. Stop spreading all of your shit because it only comes back to haunt you. I've watched it happen so many times. This isn't about gay/straight or morality. This is about conformity.

Telling people to stfu about their personal life doesn't "degrade" them, it keeps them from doing something stupid while they are young and dumb. It allows you to accomplish the mission while kids learn to wipe their collective asses without spreading their shit all over the walls.

Mike