Cold, Hard, Unbiased, Unrefutable, Evidence...PROOF That Zimmerman Is Lying!

[GHook93]

So the witnesses who say that Trayvon was on top of him knocking the crap out of him, and he was screaming for help...and the 911 calls through which you can hear him screaming for help right up to the sound of the shot...and the cops who said his injuries and state of dishevelment were consistent with his statement...

ALL those are lies? On the strength of a grainy, obstructed, 50 seconds or so of video shot from above his head somewhere?

Really?

No doubt there was a scuffle. In most states a fight like that wouldn't allow deadly force. The Model Penal Code, which most states model after, state you can only use deadly force if you are threatened with deadly force. In this case the use of deadly force won't apply. The 'Stand Your Ground' statute law doesn't follow the MPC. However, you can NOT be the aggressor for SYG to apply. If Zimmerman approach him SYG doesn't apply. If Zimmerman backed off and was heading to his car and Martin approached him it, then it does apply. It's important.

Could easily have been Zimmerman approach Martin and a scuffle ensued. Then Martin got the better of Zimmerman. Zimmerman screamed for help, the witness saw Martin on top of him. Witness account wasn't incorrect.

However, witness testimony was the key it was whether Zimmerman confronted Martin or vice versa!

Face it more likely the over-zealous Zimmerman confronted Martin!

 

[MarcATL]

Once again, none of us were there. We just do not know about it.
Let the system work.
Ok?

Ahhhh...back to the old "let-the-system-work" tripe again.

I see.

Do you think the system was working before national attention came to this case?

 

[thereisnospoon]

First of all, George Zimmerman isn't a right winger so stop pretending that he is. He's a registered Democrat for God's sake!

Secondly...what does that video supposedly show? That Zimmerman wasn't bleeding? If he were treated at the scene by EMT's should it suprise anyone that he wasn't bleeding by the time he got to the police station? Does anyone know how much of a time lapse there was between the shooting and when that video was taken? It was raining that night and Zimmerman was outside. Does he look wet in that video? By your logic...that means he wasn't out in the rain?

Does he look injured in any way?
Isn't the claim that the dead victim Trayvon Martin was BASHING the killer, George Zimmerman's head in on the concrete?
Does it look at all that there's any evidence of that? The man has a short hair cut and you should be able to see clearly evidence of such blunt trauma.
And weren't ALL you MFers squawking and squealing about his broken nose...as FACT!?!?
What about that?
Quiet as a church mouse on that point now huh?
I see...

Buncha palookas...the lot of ya.

You believe something happened based on your own ideas and speculation. You must as a rational person realize that without you being a witness, there are things you do not know.
Therefore your conclusions are based on your outrage.
In a court of law, that has no standing.
Now please, let the system work.
A trial is an examination of the facts refereed by a judge and decided upon by a jury.
There is no "wrong" decision. I am not naive. The people supporting Mr Martin want a trail and they MUST HAVE a conviction. Anything short of that there could be violence.
That's sad.
Mob rule cannot be permitted. Remember that.
So will you accept the results of any trial that may take place? Or will you become consumed with anger if the verdict does not go "your way"? Will you produce responses rationalizing any violence that may be perpetrated by those who are unhappy with a not guilty verdict?
Be honest in your answers.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Duke Lacrosse Part Deux.....

Screw the investigation, skip the trial, let's go straight to the execution.

Strawman...

Actually, no.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So the witnesses who say that Trayvon was on top of him knocking the crap out of him, and he was screaming for help...and the 911 calls through which you can hear him screaming for help right up to the sound of the shot...and the cops who said his injuries and state of dishevelment were consistent with his statement...

ALL those are lies? On the strength of a grainy, obstructed, 50 seconds or so of video shot from above his head somewhere?

Really?

No doubt there was a scuffle. In most states a fight like that wouldn't allow deadly force. The Model Penal Code, which most states model after, state you can only use deadly force if you are threatened with deadly force. In this case the use of deadly force won't apply. The 'Stand Your Ground' statute law doesn't follow the MPC. However, you can NOT be the aggressor for SYG to apply. If Zimmerman approach him SYG doesn't apply. If Zimmerman backed off and was heading to his car and Martin approached him it, then it does apply. It's important.

Could easily have been Zimmerman approach Martin and a scuffle ensued. Then Martin got the better of Zimmerman. Zimmerman screamed for help, the witness saw Martin on top of him. Witness account wasn't incorrect.

However, witness testimony was the key it was whether Zimmerman confronted Martin or vice versa!

Face it more likely the over-zealous Zimmerman confronted Martin!

Which states are you talking about? Every state I know of allows self defense if you cannot retreat. Laying on the ground with someone on top of you is a pretty solid argument you can't retreat.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Duke Lacrosse Part Deux.....

Screw the investigation, skip the trial, let's go straight to the execution.

What's your beef with that?

The team got off right? In more ways then one.

No empathy for what those kids went through. Can't say I'm surprised.

He STILL believes the Duke Lacrosse team members are guilty.

 

[MarcATL]

First of all, George Zimmerman isn't a right winger so stop pretending that he is. He's a registered Democrat for God's sake!

Secondly...what does that video supposedly show? That Zimmerman wasn't bleeding? If he were treated at the scene by EMT's should it suprise anyone that he wasn't bleeding by the time he got to the police station? Does anyone know how much of a time lapse there was between the shooting and when that video was taken? It was raining that night and Zimmerman was outside. Does he look wet in that video? By your logic...that means he wasn't out in the rain?

Does he look injured in any way?
Isn't the claim that the dead victim Trayvon Martin was BASHING the killer, George Zimmerman's head in on the concrete?
Does it look at all that there's any evidence of that? The man has a short hair cut and you should be able to see clearly evidence of such blunt trauma.
And weren't ALL you MFers squawking and squealing about his broken nose...as FACT!?!?
What about that?
Quiet as a church mouse on that point now huh?
I see...

Buncha palookas...the lot of ya.

You believe something happened based on your own ideas and speculation. You must as a rational person realize that without you being a witness, there are things you do not know.
Therefore your conclusions are based on your outrage.
In a court of law, that has no standing.
Now please, let the system work.
A trial is an examination of the facts refereed by a judge and decided upon by a jury.
There is no "wrong" decision. I am not naive. The people supporting Mr Martin want a trail and they MUST HAVE a conviction. Anything short of that there could be violence.
That's sad.
Mob rule cannot be permitted. Remember that.
So will you accept the results of any trial that may take place? Or will you become consumed with anger if the verdict does not go "your way"? Will you produce responses rationalizing any violence that may be perpetrated by those who are unhappy with a not guilty verdict?
Be honest in your answers.

It's already an outrage. BTW, Zimmerman's not the issue here...it's the corrupt Sanfard, FL authorities.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Does he look injured in any way?
Isn't the claim that the dead victim Trayvon Martin was BASHING the killer, George Zimmerman's head in on the concrete?
Does it look at all that there's any evidence of that? The man has a short hair cut and you should be able to see clearly evidence of such blunt trauma.
And weren't ALL you MFers squawking and squealing about his broken nose...as FACT!?!?
What about that?
Quiet as a church mouse on that point now huh?
I see...

Buncha palookas...the lot of ya.

You believe something happened based on your own ideas and speculation. You must as a rational person realize that without you being a witness, there are things you do not know.
Therefore your conclusions are based on your outrage.
In a court of law, that has no standing.
Now please, let the system work.
A trial is an examination of the facts refereed by a judge and decided upon by a jury.
There is no "wrong" decision. I am not naive. The people supporting Mr Martin want a trail and they MUST HAVE a conviction. Anything short of that there could be violence.
That's sad.
Mob rule cannot be permitted. Remember that.
So will you accept the results of any trial that may take place? Or will you become consumed with anger if the verdict does not go "your way"? Will you produce responses rationalizing any violence that may be perpetrated by those who are unhappy with a not guilty verdict?
Be honest in your answers.

It's already an outrage. BTW, Zimmerman's not the issue here...it's the corrupt Sanfard, FL authorities.

I still don't understand why the police that wanted to charge Zimmerman are corrupt, do you think that they tried to railroad him?

 

[Zoom]

He wasn't treated for nothing by EM's.?
How about waiting for their report?

If the victim protected himself from an armed assailant, what the hell is the problem? If he reached for his gun after that nut approached him, wouldn't you?

He broke the law when he as an armed man, left his truck and approached that kid.

Period. If the victim here got in a few hits before he was killed, then that is a small victory.

Stand your ground goes both ways right? If someone is approaching you (after saying "fucking Coon" and "they always get away" by the way. Did the victim know this? No. (It puts Zimmerman's motive on check though)..Just like Zimmerman didnt know this kid was ACTUALLY SUSPENDED FROM SCHOOL! Oh that horrible kid!) with a gun, dont you have the right to defend yourself?

 

[koshergrl]

It's against the law to meet a person who is walking towards you in the street?

Bullshit. Here we go with the lynch mode again...now zimmerman isn't allowed to walk where a black kid is walking.

 

[thereisnospoon]

It also never made sense why Treyvon Martin would "sneak up and attack" Zimmerman while he was on the phone with his girlfriend.

Ohh now RW you know how all those black males are
they just lurk everywhere to get you.

Funny how you make it a rightwinger this. First, Zimmerman was a registered Democrat! Second, he was a Latino (of course you argue we hate Latinos). Third, most RW wanted evidence to come out before saying he was guilty, regardless of the accused is a Democratic Obama supporter! Fourth, most rightwingers had more of a problem, with OBAMA, Jackson, Sharption and the Black KKK saying blacks are under assault by whites, when in the same weekend they were protesting against white america, a 9 month cute baby boy was shot in Detriot and a 9 yr old girl was shot in Chicago, both beautiful children were black and killed by blacks!

Blacks make up 13% of the population, yet they make up HALF of the total number of murder victims in the US are black MEN (add in women ad the number is even higher). 93% of blacks that are murdered are killed by other blacks! So those other 7% are killed by either whites, Latinos, Asians, Indians, Native Americans etc. So are they really under assault by whites or by blacks?

Feds: 49% Of Murder Victims Are Black Men - CBS News
Nearly half of the nation's murder victims in 2005 were black, and the number of black men who were slain is on the rise.

Most of the black murder victims — 93 percent — were killed by other black people, the study found. About 85 percent of white victims were slain by other white people.

You'll not get any traction using logic and facts.

 

[thereisnospoon]

It also never made sense why Treyvon Martin would "sneak up and attack" Zimmerman while he was on the phone with his girlfriend.

Right, because being on the phone with one's girlfriend prevents a criminal from doing criminal things.

Just doesn't make sense..

You are sneaking up on a guy who is a helluva lot bigger than you and you keep talking to your girlfriend?

RW, much of what has been reported and speculated upon doesn't make sense. And when something doesn't make sense, it usually is not true.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Finally....!!! Some honesty.

I am always honest!
Honesty next to a devil sign...interesting.

Because we got sick of you and all the professional race baiters making this a race thing. Making it seem like Black America is on assault by White America. Me personally, I turned to looking wanting Zimmerman to be innocent because of Obama arrogant comment that he could be my son (you Obama your half white the victims in Knoxville could have also)! Therefore, when the news from the witness said Martin attacked Zimmerman at his car and Zimmerman stated he got his nose broken and his head bashed against the pavement, I went to believe that!
Why are you besmirching Obama due to your bias? You were just waiting for an excuse to somehow blame Obama? Nothing Obama said about the matter was or is racist. If he had a son...he WOULD look like Trayvon. Trayvon looked more like Obama than he did his own dad. He looks like he could be Sasha and Malia's older brother, they have the same features. That is just a factual statement...no "race-baiting" involved at all...except to those that want it to be so. Why do you insist on using that bogus term anyway?


And your side didn't do that? I recall you still call him white!

What did your side do to the poor kids on the Duke LaCrosse team? Guilty before proven and not caring if proven. The evidence of innocence was overwhelming, yet your side screamed whity raped blackie. Even after ALL the evidence, the Black KKK was still saying the White boys were guilt and there was NEVER an apology from Sharpton or Jackson! In fact, both should have PERSONALLY APOLOGIZE to all the kids!
Well, that typically happens whenever a national case of male/female/rape is involved. How was the emotional outcry any different than any similar case? Including Bill Clinton's cigar fiasco? C'mon...wise up.

Can you help me with that?

Sure, now answer my question. Do you think the black man is under assault by the white man? If true, then what is your reaction to the fact that 50% of all murder victims in the US are black MEN (the number is even higher it you add in black women) and the 93% of the killers are black men also! Wouldn't you say blacks are under assault by blacks?

Feds: 49% Of Murder Victims Are Black Men - CBS News

In many aspects the black man is under assault by the white man. America's certainly a historically and institutionally racist place to live, the black man getting the turd end of the stick. Are you honestly disagreeing with that statement?

Which aspects are those. Post examples.
Quite frankly I am not buying the blacks are victims stance.
I disagree with that statement.
It is people like you who because of your lack of an ability to THINK, fan the flames of racial distrust.
It is as though without this wall of mistrust, you would find yourself without purpose.
Your hate will always be YOUR problem. The rest of us will move on. Because if you go through your day believing you are a victim and you allow anger to be your guide, at the end of the day you are still in same position. You cannot progress if you dwell on the negative.

 

[Old Rocks]

The negative here is a kid killed without reason.

What we know.

Zimmerman had a gun

He was following the kid at night

The kid did not know who was following him or why

Zimmerman was told not to confront the kid

There was a confrontation. How that happened, we have only Zimmerman's word for, because the kid is dead.

Had Zimmerman not followed the kid, not been packing, we would not be having this discussion.

 

[The Gadfly]

Glad you asked..

In fact, there are records of the phone call to his girlfriends phone. It shows how long it lasted and shows it ending one minute before the shot was fired.

So, here we have a boy who is plotting a stealth attack on a larger man but insists on talking to his girlfriend during the attack

Where?
And is there a transcript? Do we have the testimony of the girl?

Link it.

From what I heard, the police haven't even interviewed the girl yet. You want a transcript of their conversation? Do you get transcripts of your phone calls?

No; but then, none of that has kept your side here from repeating a media account of the conversation as if it were Holy Writ. Face it, you liberals are ready, willing, and gullible, to glom onto any tidbit of information, from wherever, as long as it supports YOUR predetermined conclusion, AND conveniently ignore everything else that doesn't. I wonder what you people are going to do, if this whole thing doesn't go your way in the end. I don't have a dog in this hunt; I really don't care how it comes out, so long as the rule of law and due process are followed all the way (use street justice, and I will have a VERY different opinion). Your side on the other hand, ends up with egg all over its collective face, if this doesn't turn out to be the way you have determined it is, based on conjecture, supposition, and in some respects, outright lies. When you do that, you had better be right, or you'll wind up looking like fools.

 

[The Gadfly]

He wasn't treated for nothing by EM's.?
How about waiting for their report?

If the victim protected himself from an armed assailant, what the hell is the problem? If he reached for his gun after that nut approached him, wouldn't you?

He broke the law when he as an armed man, left his truck and approached that kid.

Period. If the victim here got in a few hits before he was killed, then that is a small victory.

Stand your ground goes both ways right? If someone is approaching you (after saying "fucking Coon" and "they always get away" by the way. Did the victim know this? No. (It puts Zimmerman's motive on check though)..Just like Zimmerman didnt know this kid was ACTUALLY SUSPENDED FROM SCHOOL! Oh that horrible kid!) with a gun, dont you have the right to defend yourself?

Read the Florida statute, and you'll see the problem with your argument, because no matter what you believe the law OUGHT to say, that is not what it says. The statute has been linked numerous times here, so you should be able to find it, read it, and see for yourself. We already had a contributor here who actually IS an attorney, explain it, quite a few days ago, in another thread,.The law is what it is, not what you THINK it is. READ IT, AND SEE FOR YOURSELF.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Once again, none of us were there. We just do not know about it.
Let the system work.
Ok?

Ahhhh...back to the old "let-the-system-work" tripe again.

I see.

Do you think the system was working before national attention came to this case?

Yes. There are factions who are convinced Zimmerman is guilty as publicly charged. They want the trial phase eschewed and go right to sentencing.
Your hatred and irrational suspicion that the system is ALWAYS flawed and ALWAYS biased causes you to believe the system does not work.
Well, in this case you are convinced Zimmerman is a racist murderer so you wish for your pound of flesh.
Is this the kind of nation in which you wish to live? IF so, who is the vigilante?
Like I stated previously, I have no dog in this fight. I am willing to allow the system to work itself out. Are you?
BTW, you nor I get to pick and choose which of us is permitted to have their day in court.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Does he look injured in any way?
Isn't the claim that the dead victim Trayvon Martin was BASHING the killer, George Zimmerman's head in on the concrete?
Does it look at all that there's any evidence of that? The man has a short hair cut and you should be able to see clearly evidence of such blunt trauma.
And weren't ALL you MFers squawking and squealing about his broken nose...as FACT!?!?
What about that?
Quiet as a church mouse on that point now huh?
I see...

Buncha palookas...the lot of ya.

You believe something happened based on your own ideas and speculation. You must as a rational person realize that without you being a witness, there are things you do not know.
Therefore your conclusions are based on your outrage.
In a court of law, that has no standing.
Now please, let the system work.
A trial is an examination of the facts refereed by a judge and decided upon by a jury.
There is no "wrong" decision. I am not naive. The people supporting Mr Martin want a trail and they MUST HAVE a conviction. Anything short of that there could be violence.
That's sad.
Mob rule cannot be permitted. Remember that.
So will you accept the results of any trial that may take place? Or will you become consumed with anger if the verdict does not go "your way"? Will you produce responses rationalizing any violence that may be perpetrated by those who are unhappy with a not guilty verdict?
Be honest in your answers.

It's already an outrage. BTW, Zimmerman's not the issue here...it's the corrupt Sanfard, FL authorities.

Corrupt? How so?
Forget the politics of it in your answer.

 

[Dr Grump]

Duke Lacrosse Part Deux.....

Screw the investigation, skip the trial, let's go straight to the execution.

Strawman...

Actually, no.

Actually, yes...

 

[Dr Grump]

Which states are you talking about? Every state I know of allows self defense if you cannot retreat. Laying on the ground with someone on top of you is a pretty solid argument you can't retreat.

It's a dumb law. Common sense should prevail....