Can you say...COUP? Homeland Security preparing for civil conflict

[catzmeow]

Representative Lynn Westmoreland (R-GA):

f you take the number of agencies that will be using this ammunition – CBP, Citizenship and Immigration Services, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), ICE, the U.S. Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, the DHS police force, and all the guards that protect the various buildings these agencies are housed in, and spread that out over 5 years, you start to see that 450 million rounds really isn't that large of an order. Especially considering it is used for training purposes like firing range and live fire exercises, on-the-job use (though that is very limited), and to shore up their supplies. In fact, there are 65,000 – 70,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS who would be covered under this … ammunition contract. If DHS were to purchase all 450 million rounds over 5 years, then that would equate to only about 1,384 rounds of ammo per year per law enforcement [officer] … assuming the lower estimate of only 65,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS. Considering those agents go through training exercises several times per year, that is not a lot of ammunition.

 

[jillian]

This thread is f'd in the head.

just saying...

 

[catzmeow]

Did you provide a quote?

Sorry, I missed it. I was busy wondering when your transformation into the Incredible Hulkette would take place..

Not surprised that you would like to ignore this post:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...eparing-for-civil-conflict-5.html#post6017448

 

[catzmeow]

This thread is f'd in the head.

just saying...

I'm kind of enjoying giving KG the bitchslap to the head that she's been building up to for a while.

 

[P@triot]

yep....DHS was a great fucking idea, wasn't it? Part of the reason I left the GOP. Sounded too KGB to me.

Why is it that every single idiot liberal dumbocrat on this site insists on pretending they either are a conservative, or they were a conservative?!?! They think by lying about this it somehow gives them credibility. It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. JoeB. pretends to be a conservative. RightWinger pretends to be a conservative.

If you have to pretend to be a conservative for credibility, it really speaks volumes about how pathetic being a progressive is. They are essentially acknowledging the long history of lies and propaganda from the left

 

[koshergrl]

JakeStarkey claims to be a democrat.

It's the way they roll. Truth doesn't work when you're a piece of shit.

 

[catzmeow]

JakeStarkey claims to be a democrat.

It's the way they roll. Truth doesn't work when you're a piece of shit.

Truth is, even the NRA thinks you're a whackjob, KG.

 

[Katzndogz]

Well if it were true.

Let's stick to reality.

What we know is true is turning out to be a morass of untruths.

Who dubbed the film into arabic?
Google says the fillm violates the laws of muslim countries so they blocked it from being accessed from those countries. How did the film get anyone to see it in muslim controlled nations?

 

[koshergrl]

If I had to name someone, I'd say probably seawytch or moonglow. Maybe VaYank.

Just sayin.

 

[catzmeow]

If I had to name someone, I'd say probably seawytch or moonglow. Maybe VaYank.

Just sayin.

So, you aren't going to respond to the post with linked citations on the subject of the OP that you and others requested?

So typical.

 

[catzmeow]

NRA Online:

Perhaps most strangely, some have cited the purchase of hollow-point ammunition as evidence of the federal government's evil motives. Hollow-points are the defensive ammunition of choice for federal, state and local law enforcement officers across the country, just as they are for private citizens. These attacks are eerily similar to statements made by gun prohibitionists, who spent the much of the '70s, '80s and '90s complaining about "dum dum" bullets. (In fact, the Violence Policy Center's website still exhibits a publication lamenting that federal ammunition law "has no effect on today's generation of high-tech hollow-point ammunition.") The attacks also ignore the fact that federal agents, unlike average taxpayers on more limited budgets, normally train and qualify with their duty ammunition.

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/a...es-buy-ammunition.aspx?s=DHS+purchase&st=&ps=

 

[RetiredGySgt]

He is conveniently ignoring the fact that successive dem congresses and Obama have kept the thing, voted to give it money and more power.

Yep it's almost as if he thinks it's still the GOP running it.

So fucked up...it's sad. GOP=gooooooood, DEM=EEEEEEVIL, Obama? DA DEBIL!

Hypocrite, you believe just the opposite and have the gall to post this?

 

[Avatar4321]

yep....DHS was a great fucking idea, wasn't it? Part of the reason I left the GOP. Sounded too KGB to me.

The GOP should never have let Democrats talk them into it.

 

[koshergrl]

yep....DHS was a great fucking idea, wasn't it? Part of the reason I left the GOP. Sounded too KGB to me.

The GOP should never have let Democrats talk them into it.

No kidding.

 

[Dot Com]

yep....DHS was a great fucking idea, wasn't it? Part of the reason I left the GOP. Sounded too KGB to me.

The GOP should never have let Democrats talk them into it.

No kidding.

You people are funny Do the names Ashcroft & Gonzales ring a bell? Hint: They WERE NOT Democrats

 

[tjvh]

1.4 Billion rounds? Well that comes out to about four rounds per citizen... The Second Amendment means they will need much more than that.

 

[Avatar4321]

about the article:

1) There is nothing civil about conflict. it's always ugly.
2) There is going to be domestic conflict. We are ripe for it. Unless we seriously change our ways, it's unavoidable, the only question is when?
3) While im sure Obama would love to be President for life, I dont think he has the guts to actually do it.

Conflict is coming amongst ourselves and with other nations. We can either humble ourselves and turn to God and possibly avoid it, or we can prepare for our society to be pushed to the breaking point. Anyone who says it cant happen is ignorant of history and the signs going on around us.

 

[Dot Com]

so Allie is a black helicopter/fema camp acolyte like Avatar4321?

 

[koshergrl]

Not at all.

Progressives are noted for their joy in supporting tyranny, and their insistance that tyranny is really not tyranny at all, but a kinder, gentler lifestyle.

And they are notorious for slaughter.

 

[catzmeow]

Not at all.

Progressives are noted for their joy in supporting tyranny, and their insistance that tyranny is really not tyranny at all, but a kinder, gentler lifestyle.

And they are notorious for slaughter.

Whereas KG is just noted for pulling freeper rumors out of her ass and circulating them as if they're new information.

Again, for the slow readers...even the NRA has attempted to debunk this freeper urban legend.

5. DHS has 200,000 employees from the above agencies I listed. Of those employees, about 60% are armed. That's 120,000 employees who are required to carry weapons, train on those weapons, qualify on those weapons annually, and use those weapons in the performance of their duties. The average LE officer expends between 300-500 rounds in every weapons practice. Most LE personnel practice weekly or bi-weekly. That's upwards of 18 million bullets per year JUST FOR PRACTICE.

Thanks for posting those numbers. I ran across them somewhere, but didn't want to post them without sourcing.

Which makes you smarter than catz, who throws out those numbers WITHOUT any.

NOBODY goes to the range with hollow points. NOBODY.

As for the rest of that screed, give me documentation or STFU, catz.

ATK's 40mm Federal HST bullets, Speer GDHPs, and Winchester SXts are the industry standard for law enforcement use in 2012. The FBI has taken the lead on ballistic wound penetration testing since the 1980s and has partnered with ATK on wound ballistics workshops around the U.S. to allow local law enforcement to test these bullets. FBI wound ballistics penetration specs recommend penetration at 12 inches in order to stop an armed suspect.

Here's a link to info on ATK's website about the wound ballistics workshops:

LE - Wound Ballistics

It's hard to say which individual LE agencies buy which rounds, because each department in the U.S., and there are several thousand of them, has their own purchasing standards and departments, and they function autonomously. And, it is difficult to access industry sales reports. However, if you click on the links to the workshops, such as the one held in Butte in 2009, you can see the agencies that participated in those round tests, where the ATK Federal HST 40mms performed very well.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/Butte_WBW_5_27_09.pdf

It's not unlikely that after those tests, local PD leadership would direct their purchasers towards ATK's Federal HSTs

ATK, in particular, markets these rounds hard to law enforcement and military purchasers around the U.S. The ATK 40mm HST Federal is a round that was specifically designed for LEO use and is limited to purchases by law enforcement agencies, however, on rare occasions, sport users may be able to get them from a gun dealer.

It is very commonly used by law enforcement:

Federal HST Duty Ammo | Hendon Publishing

The use of the 40mm S/W now exceeds the use of the 9mm in most police agencies, making the 40mm Federal HST a very popular bullet.

As far as use of 40mm Federal HST in training, it's not uncommon. Most LEOs would make the case for using the same rounds in training that they use on duty, because different rounds fire differently from the same gun. The departments purchase ammo in bulk, distribute it to officers for use on duty and for training purposes, so officers use what the department buys. When you are buying rounds to carry on duty, it makes sense to buy the same rounds to fire in training and qualifying, because to do otherwise may well screw up your officers from qualifying on their weapon.

Money quote:

"For practice ammunition, they do not have to be hollow-points, but hollow-points are the normal police round used for duty ammunition due to their ability to stop when they hit an object as opposed to going through it and striking more objects," said William J. Muldoon, president of the International Association of Directors of Law Enforcement Standards and Training.

Why does Social Security need 174,000 hollow-point bullets? | OregonLive.com

This story has been going around for a while. These types of large purchases by federal and military agencies are normal. For whatever reason, these purchases were seized upon starting in April, 2012, by paranoid anti-government types, who apparently know very little about the field, and who are scared of their own shadows.

For instance, in April, 2012, it was paranoia about purchases of similar ammo by the FBI during 2011:

The US Government Has Ordered Over 750 Million Rounds of .40 Caliber Hollow Point Ammunition in the Last Three Years :

The NRA even put up an article about this topic on their website in August:

NRA-ILA | Federal Law Enforcement Agencies Buy Ammunition

here's a money quote from a republican congressman whose office was asked to research these purchases:

After receiving numerous questions from his constituents regarding the contract, pro-Second Amendment U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) and his staff set out in search of the truth. In a press release, Rep. Westmoreland's office explains:

If you take the number of agencies that will be using this ammunition – CBP, Citizenship and Immigration Services, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), ICE, the U.S. Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, the DHS police force, and all the guards that protect the various buildings these agencies are housed in, and spread that out over 5 years, you start to see that 450 million rounds really isn't that large of an order. Especially considering it is used for training purposes like firing range and live fire exercises, on-the-job use (though that is very limited), and to shore up their supplies. In fact, there are 65,000 – 70,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS who would be covered under this … ammunition contract. If DHS were to purchase all 450 million rounds over 5 years, then that would equate to only about 1,384 rounds of ammo per year per law enforcement [officer] … assuming the lower estimate of only 65,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS. Considering those agents go through training exercises several times per year, that is not a lot of ammunition.

But, I like this quote from the NRA, myself:

Perhaps most strangely, some have cited the purchase of hollow-point ammunition as evidence of the federal government's evil motives. Hollow-points are the defensive ammunition of choice for federal, state and local law enforcement officers across the country, just as they are for private citizens. These attacks are eerily similar to statements made by gun prohibitionists, who spent the much of the '70s, '80s and '90s complaining about "dum dum" bullets. (In fact, the Violence Policy Center's website still exhibits a publication lamenting that federal ammunition law "has no effect on today's generation of high-tech hollow-point ammunition.") The attacks also ignore the fact that federal agents, unlike average taxpayers on more limited budgets, normally train and qualify with their duty ammunition.