Can you say...COUP? Homeland Security preparing for civil conflict

[Dissent]

Lol...god doesn't exist people but whatever makes ya happy...I mean come on we got past believing in santa claus and the easter bunny but people still believe in some invisible being in the sky that dictates our lives? SERIOUSLY!?

Won't you be surprised when you find yourself in the afterlife?

LOL...burning lake of fire blah blah blah...give me a break...I am more than willing to take the risk.It means living free and not living to please some invisible person in the sky...your mind is a slave friend.

 

[Salt Jones]

"

The number of bullets purchased by the DHS now adds up to a staggering 1.4 billion over the last six months alone. Although all those bullets won’t be delivered at once, the DHS’ commitment to purchasing such an arsenal of ammo is both worrying and ironic given that Americans are being harassed and treated with suspicion for buying a couple of boxes of ammo at their local gun store.
Following a barrage of questions about why the federal agency has purchased so many bullets, the DHS has refused to respond and even gone to the lengths of censoring information relating to solicitations for ammunition.
The DHS’ decision back in March to purchase of 450 million rounds of .40-caliber hollow point bullets that are designed to expand upon entry and cause maximum organ damage prompted questions as to why the federal agency required such powerful bullets and in such large quantities merely for training purposes.​

This was followed up by a more recent order for a further 750 million rounds of assorted ammunition, including bullets that can penetrate walls.

The mainstream media responded to the controversy by focusing on a purchase of 174,000 bullets by the Social Security Administration while completely ignoring the fact that the DHS had purchased well over a billion rounds."

» DHS Purchases 200 Million More Rounds of Ammunition Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!​

Good. Helped my ATK stock increase, since they own Federal Premium.

 

[Salt Jones]

Don't worry dears. I'll make sure you get the extra thin gruel at the FEMA camps.

Will the camps sell lampshades?

 

[Polk]

Obama In 1998: "I Actually Believe In Redistribution" - YouTube

There is absolutely nothing damning in that statement.

 

[Polk]

Don't worry dears. I'll make sure you get the extra thin gruel at the FEMA camps.

Will the camps sell lampshades?

Resources won't be effective for that, but plenty of whale blubber for heating will be produced.

 

[koshergrl]

Obama In 1998: "I Actually Believe In Redistribution" - YouTube

There is absolutely nothing damning in that statement.

Not if you're a Marxist.

 

[Polk]

Obama In 1998: "I Actually Believe In Redistribution" - YouTube

There is absolutely nothing damning in that statement.

Not if you're a Marxist.

Please, explain what's radical in that statement, because it's a belief shared by large numbers in both parties.

 

[Old Rocks]

In the last 30 years, we have seen a tremendous re-distribution of wealth from the middle class to the very wealthy. If this continues, our nation will soon be third world.

 

[catzmeow]

Jesus Christ, you paranoid whackjob.

1. First, homeland security includes ICE (immigration and customs enforcement), the Secret Service, the coast guard, and the border patrol. All of these agencies have high numbers of armed personnel who are responsible for enforcement/investigative activities, and use a lot of bullets.

2. Bullets and other supplies are cheaper in bulk, rather than making a series of smaller purchases.

3. Homeland Security is currently (imo) over-funded and due for cuts in the federal budget. They are spending available dollars for supplies that will be needed not only in 2012 but in future years, while those dollars are available. For instance, in 2011, DHS was funded for $98 billion, but only spent $66 billion. Federal agency money tends to be use or lose money, so in other words, if you don't spend the money that you were allocated by congress, your budget is likely to be chopped in subsequent years. It isn't uncommon for agencies in those scenarios to spend money on hard costs such as weapons, ammunition, uniforms, computers, etc. while they have the dollars. Bullets are a particularly good long-term purchase because they don't spoil or become technologically obsolete.

4. They are purchasing hollow points because cops/military personnel train with the bullets they use on duty, and most law enforcement agencies these days use hollow points because if you have to shoot a perp, you want to do as much damage as possible.

5. DHS has 200,000 employees from the above agencies I listed. Of those employees, about 60% are armed. That's 120,000 employees who are required to carry weapons, train on those weapons, qualify on those weapons annually, and use those weapons in the performance of their duties. The average LE officer expends between 300-500 rounds in every weapons practice. Most LE personnel practice weekly or bi-weekly. That's upwards of 18 million bullets per year JUST FOR PRACTICE.

6. Put into perspective, the U.S. Army just purchased 2 billion rounds 7.62mm ammo from the same company. The army has around 560,000 military personnel. That's roughly 5 times the amount of personnel as homeland security. shockers...450 million is about 22% of 2 billion (or 1/5th).

Your paranoia is not cute. The lack of critical thinking skills that some of you exhibit is just sad at this point.

Instead of believing every paranoid freeper article you read, why not put on your thinking cap and do a little research?

 

[Polk]

5. DHS has 200,000 employees from the above agencies I listed. Of those employees, about 60% are armed. That's 120,000 employees who are required to carry weapons, train on those weapons, qualify on those weapons annually, and use those weapons in the performance of their duties. The average LE officer expends between 300-500 rounds in every weapons practice. Most LE personnel practice weekly or bi-weekly. That's upwards of 18 million bullets per year JUST FOR PRACTICE.

Thanks for posting those numbers. I ran across them somewhere, but didn't want to post them without sourcing.

 

[GuyPinestra]

5. DHS has 200,000 employees from the above agencies I listed. Of those employees, about 60% are armed. That's 120,000 employees who are required to carry weapons, train on those weapons, qualify on those weapons annually, and use those weapons in the performance of their duties. The average LE officer expends between 300-500 rounds in every weapons practice. Most LE personnel practice weekly or bi-weekly. That's upwards of 18 million bullets per year JUST FOR PRACTICE.

Thanks for posting those numbers. I ran across them somewhere, but didn't want to post them without sourcing.

Which makes you smarter than catz, who throws out those numbers WITHOUT any.

NOBODY goes to the range with hollow points. NOBODY.

As for the rest of that screed, give me documentation or STFU, catz.

 

[catzmeow]

5. DHS has 200,000 employees from the above agencies I listed. Of those employees, about 60% are armed. That's 120,000 employees who are required to carry weapons, train on those weapons, qualify on those weapons annually, and use those weapons in the performance of their duties. The average LE officer expends between 300-500 rounds in every weapons practice. Most LE personnel practice weekly or bi-weekly. That's upwards of 18 million bullets per year JUST FOR PRACTICE.

Thanks for posting those numbers. I ran across them somewhere, but didn't want to post them without sourcing.

Which makes you smarter than catz, who throws out those numbers WITHOUT any.

NOBODY goes to the range with hollow points. NOBODY.

As for the rest of that screed, give me documentation or STFU, catz.

ATK's 40mm Federal HST bullets, Speer GDHPs, and Winchester SXts are the industry standard for law enforcement use in 2012. The FBI has taken the lead on ballistic wound penetration testing since the 1980s and has partnered with ATK on wound ballistics workshops around the U.S. to allow local law enforcement to test these bullets. FBI wound ballistics penetration specs recommend penetration at 12 inches in order to stop an armed suspect.

Here's a link to info on ATK's website about the wound ballistics workshops:

LE - Wound Ballistics

It's hard to say which individual LE agencies buy which rounds, because each department in the U.S., and there are several thousand of them, has their own purchasing standards and departments, and they function autonomously. And, it is difficult to access industry sales reports. However, if you click on the links to the workshops, such as the one held in Butte in 2009, you can see the agencies that participated in those round tests, where the ATK Federal HST 40mms performed very well.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/Butte_WBW_5_27_09.pdf

It's not unlikely that after those tests, local PD leadership would direct their purchasers towards ATK's Federal HSTs

ATK, in particular, markets these rounds hard to law enforcement and military purchasers around the U.S. The ATK 40mm HST Federal is a round that was specifically designed for LEO use and is limited to purchases by law enforcement agencies, however, on rare occasions, sport users may be able to get them from a gun dealer.

It is very commonly used by law enforcement:

Federal HST Duty Ammo | Hendon Publishing

The use of the 40mm S/W now exceeds the use of the 9mm in most police agencies, making the 40mm Federal HST a very popular bullet.

As far as use of 40mm Federal HST in training, it's not uncommon. Most LEOs would make the case for using the same rounds in training that they use on duty, because different rounds fire differently from the same gun. The departments purchase ammo in bulk, distribute it to officers for use on duty and for training purposes, so officers use what the department buys. When you are buying rounds to carry on duty, it makes sense to buy the same rounds to fire in training and qualifying, because to do otherwise may well screw up your officers from qualifying on their weapon.

Money quote:

"For practice ammunition, they do not have to be hollow-points, but hollow-points are the normal police round used for duty ammunition due to their ability to stop when they hit an object as opposed to going through it and striking more objects," said William J. Muldoon, president of the International Association of Directors of Law Enforcement Standards and Training.

Why does Social Security need 174,000 hollow-point bullets? | OregonLive.com

This story has been going around for a while. These types of large purchases by federal and military agencies are normal. For whatever reason, these purchases were seized upon starting in April, 2012, by paranoid anti-government types, who apparently know very little about the field, and who are scared of their own shadows.

For instance, in April, 2012, it was paranoia about purchases of similar ammo by the FBI during 2011:

http://theintelhub.com/2012/04/05/t...low-point-ammunition-in-the-last-three-years/

The NRA even put up an article about this topic on their website in August:

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/a...es-buy-ammunition.aspx?s=DHS+purchase&st=&ps=

here's a money quote from a republican congressman whose office was asked to research these purchases:

After receiving numerous questions from his constituents regarding the contract, pro-Second Amendment U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) and his staff set out in search of the truth. In a press release, Rep. Westmoreland's office explains:

If you take the number of agencies that will be using this ammunition – CBP, Citizenship and Immigration Services, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), ICE, the U.S. Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, the DHS police force, and all the guards that protect the various buildings these agencies are housed in, and spread that out over 5 years, you start to see that 450 million rounds really isn't that large of an order. Especially considering it is used for training purposes like firing range and live fire exercises, on-the-job use (though that is very limited), and to shore up their supplies. In fact, there are 65,000 – 70,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS who would be covered under this … ammunition contract. If DHS were to purchase all 450 million rounds over 5 years, then that would equate to only about 1,384 rounds of ammo per year per law enforcement [officer] … assuming the lower estimate of only 65,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS. Considering those agents go through training exercises several times per year, that is not a lot of ammunition.

But, I like this quote from the NRA, myself:

Perhaps most strangely, some have cited the purchase of hollow-point ammunition as evidence of the federal government's evil motives. Hollow-points are the defensive ammunition of choice for federal, state and local law enforcement officers across the country, just as they are for private citizens. These attacks are eerily similar to statements made by gun prohibitionists, who spent the much of the '70s, '80s and '90s complaining about "dum dum" bullets. (In fact, the Violence Policy Center's website still exhibits a publication lamenting that federal ammunition law "has no effect on today's generation of high-tech hollow-point ammunition.") The attacks also ignore the fact that federal agents, unlike average taxpayers on more limited budgets, normally train and qualify with their duty ammunition.

 

[bodecea]

Don't worry dears. I'll make sure you get the extra thin gruel at the FEMA camps.

Will the camps sell lampshades?

Ouch!

 

[bodecea]

In the last 30 years, we have seen a tremendous re-distribution of wealth from the middle class to the very wealthy. If this continues, our nation will soon be third world.

Some states already are.

 

[koshergrl]

"

The Department of Homeland Security has redacted information relating to the quantity of bullets it is buying following a controversy concerning the agency’s purchase of over a billion rounds of ammo, which many fear is a sign the federal government is preparing for civil unrest in the United States.​

Despite the fact that documents are only supposed to be redacted if authorized by Congress or for national security reasons, a solicitation posted on the FedBizOpps website yesterday concerning ammunition purchases made by the DHS on behalf of Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) contains numerous blacked out sections.​

The classified portions of the document include references to the amount of 223 62 and 223 64 grain ammunition being purchased.​

The solicitation explains how the contract put out by the DHS to purchase the ammunition was not subject to “full and open competition,” a process justified by what the DHS claims was an “unusual and compelling urgency” to acquire the bullets, noting that there is a shortage of bullets which is threatening a situation which could cause “substantial safety issues for the government” should law enforcement officials not be adequately armed."


» DHS Classifies New Ammo Purchases Following Controversy Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!




​

 

[catzmeow]

Was that enough research for your tinfoil hatted morons? Maybe the next thread you start can be about how the NRA has been co-opted by the socialist Obama government and is secretly engaged in a covert war against U.S. citizens.

 

[koshergrl]

Well if it were true.

Let's stick to reality.

 

[catzmeow]

"

The Department of Homeland Security has redacted information relating to the quantity of bullets it is buying following a controversy concerning the agency’s purchase of over a billion rounds of ammo, which many fear is a sign the federal government is preparing for civil unrest in the United States.​

Despite the fact that documents are only supposed to be redacted if authorized by Congress or for national security reasons, a solicitation posted on the FedBizOpps website yesterday concerning ammunition purchases made by the DHS on behalf of Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) contains numerous blacked out sections.​

The classified portions of the document include references to the amount of 223 62 and 223 64 grain ammunition being purchased.​

The solicitation explains how the contract put out by the DHS to purchase the ammunition was not subject to “full and open competition,” a process justified by what the DHS claims was an “unusual and compelling urgency” to acquire the bullets, noting that there is a shortage of bullets which is threatening a situation which could cause “substantial safety issues for the government” should law enforcement officials not be adequately armed."


» DHS Classifies New Ammo Purchases Following Controversy Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!




​

You should stop reading infowars. Your brain is already addled and paranoid enough.

 

[catzmeow]

Well if it were true.

Let's stick to reality.

No response to the quote from the NRA?

 

[koshergrl]

Did you provide a quote?

Sorry, I missed it. I was busy wondering when your transformation into the Incredible Hulkette would take place..