Both Sides Say Ireland Has Voted to Legalize Gay Marriage

[World Savior]

What a shitty fucking mess. I hope they all get aids!

LOL, this is classic conservative compassion on display folks. Their hatred of gays is so intense they want people to get disease and die. This is why no one should vote for conservatives.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If the people of Ireland voted to make gay marriage legal good for them I have said more than a few times put the issue of gay marriage on the national ballot here and let the people decide. If the nation votes yes I will accept the decision and live my life the question is if the vote was no would the gay marriage supporters do the same?

As already correctly noted: the Untied States is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy, whose citizens are subject to the rule of law, not men, as men are incapable of ruling justly – measures denying same-sex couples access to marriage law in violation of the 14th Amendment are evidence of that.

Consequently, one's rights are not subject to 'majority rule,' as they are inalienable and fundamental, immune from attack by government or popular referenda.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Now the pedophile priests can take little boys as mates! In all seriousness Ireland was lost long ago when scum ike Sinn Fein would rather have non whites than White British moving to Ireland. The country has been partially run by marxist inspired scum for way to long and now when you can't walk through Dublin without it resembling an African country the country was already lost..coffin.nailed.shut.

Talk about sour grapes.

 

[auditor0007]

Surprising.

It will be interesting to see the numbers coming out on how this works out for them.

It will work out just fine. They are not forcing the Church to marry gays. It's only civil marriage. Of course the nutters here in the US think that if gay marriage becomes legal here in the US that means churches will be forced to marry gays.

 

[Correll]

Mmm, no, no it doesn't.

Straight marriage, doesn't have high rates of spousal abuse.

Two parent families don't have high rates of bad outcomes for children.

BUT, single parent families that do, are the growing form of family.

An pattern that is occurring, as you pointed out, as homosexual marriage is gaining in acceptance.

You might be on to something here.

What do you think the underlying issue is?

Do you know couples who have gotten divorced because gay marriage became legal in their state?

And for that reason alone, mind you. Tell us about those couples you know.

Mmm a straw man fallacy.

ANd you build on it to craft what I think is an argument from fallacy fallacy.

Another lefty that knows he/she needs to be dishonest to support his/her position.

Why do you have a position that you know you cannot honestly defend?

Doesn't that set off any red flags with you?

So you admit that same sex marriage does not adversely affect man/woman marriage.

That was the point I was proving.

And more dishonesty...

Good, good, keep it coming.

So tell us how gay marriage is adversely affecting the divorce rate of heterosexual couples.

By undermining the traditional institution of marriage.


It is far from the only factor, and far from the biggest, but it is not a good sign.

I am more distressed by the manner in which the debate is being waged.

The tactic of changing the meaning of a word in order to change the meaning of the law, is literally Orwellian.

 

[Correll]

If the people of Ireland voted to make gay marriage legal good for them I have said more than a few times put the issue of gay marriage on the national ballot here and let the people decide. If the nation votes yes I will accept the decision and live my life the question is if the vote was no would the gay marriage supporters do the same?

As already correctly noted: the Untied States is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy, whose citizens are subject to the rule of law, not men, as men are incapable of ruling justly – measures denying same-sex couples access to marriage law in violation of the 14th Amendment are evidence of that.

Consequently, one's rights are not subject to 'majority rule,' as they are inalienable and fundamental, immune from attack by government or popular referenda.

Except that marriage, has for the entire existence of this nation, meant between a man and a woman.

YOu cannot have a same sex couple from an union between a man and a woman.

Thus, this is not about denying people access to marriage. This is about changing the institution of marriage.

And doing it dishonestly.

 

[Correll]

Surprising.

It will be interesting to see the numbers coming out on how this works out for them.

It will work out just fine. They are not forcing the Church to marry gays. It's only civil marriage. Of course the nutters here in the US think that if gay marriage becomes legal here in the US that means churches will be forced to marry gays.

You do realize there are people out there who spend their days thinking of ways to attack religion?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Marriage is a state contract between two consenting adults.

Holy Matrimony is a ceremony that religions use to "sanctify" the state contract of marriage.

Those participating in a Holy Matrimony ceremony are still required to sign the state marriage contract in order to be legally married.

No one is forced to undergo the religious ceremony in order to be legally married.

No religion is forced to conduct a Holy Matrimony ceremony that violates it's own dogma.

The state can define who can marry and at what ages they can marry under the laws of the state as long as they do not violate equal protection under the law.

Extending the state marriage contract to no longer discriminate against men and women is constitutional.

The legalization of gay marriage has nothing whatsoever to do with religion and does not violate the Holy Matrimony ceremony since there is no requirement that religions must perform their ceremony.

 

[Correll]

Marriage is a state contract between two consenting adults.

Holy Matrimony is a ceremony that religions use to "sanctify" the state contract of marriage.

Those participating in a Holy Matrimony ceremony are still required to sign the state marriage contract in order to be legally married.

No one is forced to undergo the religious ceremony in order to be legally married.

No religion is forced to conduct a Holy Matrimony ceremony that violates it's own dogma.

The state can define who can marry and at what ages they can marry under the laws of the state as long as they do not violate equal protection under the law.

Extending the state marriage contract to no longer discriminate against men and women is constitutional.

The legalization of gay marriage has nothing whatsoever to do with religion and does not violate the Holy Matrimony ceremony since there is no requirement that religions must perform their ceremony.

NOPE.

For as long as this nation has existed, Marriage has been a state contract between a man and a woman.

 

[Stephanie]

The people did vote in this country. remember California? they VOTED against homosexual marriage

but omg, you all weren't happy about that so you went and dug up some Judge to walk all over them and their vote to have SET ASIDE.

now you expect the Supreme court to bow to you

 

[Seawytch]

Acceptance of perversion certainly hasn't been good for those scandanavian countries that normalized homosexuality. That's been known since 2004.

The End of Marriage in Scandinavia The Weekly Standard

That was false 11 years ago..
.
Did gay marriage destroy heterosexual marriage in Scandinavia? (No)

Despite what Kurtz might say, the apocalypse has not yet arrived. In fact, the numbers show that heterosexual marriage looks pretty healthy in Scandinavia, where same-sex couples have had rights the longest. In Denmark, for example, the marriage rate had been declining for a half-century but turned around in the early 1980s. After the 1989 passage of the registered-partner law, the marriage rate continued to climb; Danish heterosexual marriage rates are now the highest they've been since the early 1970's. And the most recent marriage rates in Sweden, Norway, and Iceland are allhigher than the rates for the years before the partner laws were passed. Furthermore, in the 1990s, divorce rates in Scandinavia remained basically unchanged.
​

Got anything more current?

 

[CowboyTed]

Lads,

One thing has to be said... Ireland got the Gay Marriage debate over in about 6 weeks. No messing, no supreme courts...

The politicians can now get on with running the country without the constraints of social issues...

Ireland has changed it's constitution 15 times in the last 25 years and 32 since the US has ratified there last one.
Issues include Divorce, Abortion(few of them), European membership, Death Penalty, Rights of child...

The Irish Constitution is called a living constitution, a constitution which reacts with the times and the people who live during that time... Can you say the US constitution is reacting to the changing beliefs and attitudes of the people?

 

[mdk]

What a shitty fucking mess. I hope they all get aids!

What finishing school did you say you attended?

 

[Seawytch]

Surprising.

It will be interesting to see the numbers coming out on how this works out for them.

What's not to work out?

Low rates of marriage, high rates of divorce, high rates of spouse abuse, bad outcomes for children, off the top of my head.

Gays have been marring in the US for a decade...in European countries much longer than that. Provide evidence to support your claims that gays marrying leads to those things?

Let's start with high divorce rates...Massachusetts has had gay marriage the longest...and has one of the lowest divorce rates in the United States. Fail

"High rates of spousal abuse". Let's look at the numbers shall we?

• Nearly 25% of women and 7.6% of men were raped and/or physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, or dating partner/acquaintance at some time in their lifetime (based on survey of 16,000 participants, equally male and female).
• Intimate partner violence made up 20% of all nonfatal violent crime experienced by women in 2001.

• Of the almost 3.5 million violent crimes committed against family members, 49% of these were crimes against spouses.
• 84% of spouse abuse victims were females, and 86% of victims of dating partner abuse at were female.
• Males were 83% of spouse murderers and 75% of dating partner murderers
• 50% of offenders in state prison for spousal abuse had killed their victims. Wives were more likely than husbands to be killed by their spouses: wives were about half of all spouses in the population in 2002, but 81% of all persons killed by their spouse.

Conversely...

• 11% of lesbians reported violence by their female partner and 15% of gay men who had lived with a male partner reported being victimized by a male partner.

Another FAIL

"Bad outcomes for children". Nope, fail again. All studies show that there is no difference in outcomes between the children of gays and the children of straights.

From the American Academy of Pediatrics
Technical Report
Promoting the Well-Being of Children Whose Parents Are Gay or Lesbian

Extensive data available from more than 30 years of research reveal that children raised by gay and lesbian parents have demonstrated resilience with regard to social, psychological, and sexual health despite economic and legal disparities and social stigma. Many studies have demonstrated that children's well-being is affected much more by their relationships with their parents, their parents' sense of competence and security, and the presence of social and economic support for the family than by the gender or the sexual orientation of their parents.​

 

[CowboyTed]

By the way US opinion polls are around the same as Ireland:

Polls in 2015[edit]
A February–March 2015 Wall Street Journal poll found that 59% of Americans favor same-sex marriage.[14]

A January–February 2015 Human Rights Campaign poll found that 60% of Americans favor same-sex marriage, while 37% oppose. The same poll also found that 46% of respondents say they know a same-sex couple who have gotten married.[15]

A February 12–15, 2015 CNN/ORC poll found that 63% of Americans believe same-sex marriage is a constitutional right, while 36% oppose

 

[NYcarbineer]

Now we'll see the resident USMB RWers who complain about 'unelected judges' imposing same sex marriage equality and who rant about the 'will of the people'

now suddenly go back to reminding us how referendum, aka direct democracy,

is 'mob rule'.

This isn't Ireland you dumb fuck. Yes, states have had judicial rulings against the will of the people, regardless of what happens overseas.

Judges hold their jobs by the will of the people.

Some are elected, most aren't. Especially higher up the food chain.

Laws aren't elected either.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Yeah, but I'm not talking about straight marriage.

Are you implying some type of underlying trend?

What I'm saying is that you're an idiot. Everything you listed above, happens in straight marriage.

Mmm, no, no it doesn't.

Straight marriage, doesn't have high rates of spousal abuse.

Two parent families don't have high rates of bad outcomes for children.

BUT, single parent families that do, are the growing form of family.

An pattern that is occurring, as you pointed out, as homosexual marriage is gaining in acceptance.

You might be on to something here.

What do you think the underlying issue is?

What planet do you live on? 22% of the women in this country have been physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, partner, or boyfriend.

Straight marriage doesn't have high divorce rates....OMG, you are a joke.

Cute. YOu discuss spousal abuse and then include boyfriends. A clear sign you know you need to play games with the stats to save your argument.

AND you lied about what I said, re straight marriage and abuse/divorce. Another clear sign you know you are on weak ground.

BUT, you completely ignored my follow up question on your analysis on the underlying cause.

wHY?

You're an idiot. You can't even follow the discussion.

 

[Seawytch]

The people did vote in this country. remember California? they VOTED against homosexual marriage

but omg, you all weren't happy about that so you went and dug up some Judge to walk all over them and their vote to have SET ASIDE.

now you expect the Supreme court to bow to you

"Some Judge" Steph? This is another thing you're not paying very close attention to despite liking to spout off about it. 71 separate rulings...11 "losses".

A Surprising Number of Judges Ruling for Marriage Equality are Republicans

 

[Correll]

Surprising.

It will be interesting to see the numbers coming out on how this works out for them.

What's not to work out?

Low rates of marriage, high rates of divorce, high rates of spouse abuse, bad outcomes for children, off the top of my head.

Gays have been marring in the US for a decade...in European countries much longer than that. Provide evidence to support your claims that gays marrying leads to those things?

Let's start with high divorce rates...Massachusetts has had gay marriage the longest...and has one of the lowest divorce rates in the United States. Fail

"High rates of spousal abuse". Let's look at the numbers shall we?

• Nearly 25% of women and 7.6% of men were raped and/or physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, or dating partner/acquaintance at some time in their lifetime (based on survey of 16,000 participants, equally male and female).
• Intimate partner violence made up 20% of all nonfatal violent crime experienced by women in 2001.

• Of the almost 3.5 million violent crimes committed against family members, 49% of these were crimes against spouses.
• 84% of spouse abuse victims were females, and 86% of victims of dating partner abuse at were female.
• Males were 83% of spouse murderers and 75% of dating partner murderers
• 50% of offenders in state prison for spousal abuse had killed their victims. Wives were more likely than husbands to be killed by their spouses: wives were about half of all spouses in the population in 2002, but 81% of all persons killed by their spouse.

Conversely...

• 11% of lesbians reported violence by their female partner and 15% of gay men who had lived with a male partner reported being victimized by a male partner.

Another FAIL

"Bad outcomes for children". Nope, fail again. All studies show that there is no difference in outcomes between the children of gays and the children of straights.

From the American Academy of Pediatrics
Technical Report
Promoting the Well-Being of Children Whose Parents Are Gay or Lesbian

Extensive data available from more than 30 years of research reveal that children raised by gay and lesbian parents have demonstrated resilience with regard to social, psychological, and sexual health despite economic and legal disparities and social stigma. Many studies have demonstrated that children's well-being is affected much more by their relationships with their parents, their parents' sense of competence and security, and the presence of social and economic support for the family than by the gender or the sexual orientation of their parents.​

My response was about the issues in gay marriage.

And I note that you also use misleading stats.

Lumping boyfriends in with husbands, and then moving on to the subset of "crimes committed against family members" then discussing a percentage of THAT.

Cute.

 

[mdk]

The people did vote in this country. remember California? they VOTED against homosexual marriage

but omg, you all weren't happy about that so you went and dug up some Judge to walk all over them and their vote to have SET ASIDE.

now you expect the Supreme court to bow to you

The will of the people is meaningless if said will violates the Constitution. Besides, none of this really matters with Jade Helm coming, right? lol