Boeing, unions, and the right to work

[daveman]

1) Being forced to join a Union is NOT a "violation of your rights".

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.


Big Brother would be proud of you, Goose.

Then I'm sure you'll have no problem showing me what "Rights" are being violated. A Constitutional link would be nice too.

.

That's easy. Freedom of assembly in the 1st Amendment.

People forced by law to join a union are being forced to assemble with people whom they may not wish to.

Do you not see that you keep using the word "forced" yourself? Who do you think is doing the forcing?

 

[daveman]

As Reagan said, "There you go again". You were once briefly a member of the Carpenter's Union and that makers you expert enough to coment on ALL Unions? You truly are a wonder.

To how many unions have you belonged?

I have belonged to three (LiNUA, UMWA and currently the IBEW...you may look them up since you probably don't know what the letters stand for) over a 30 year span. And I have served in various officer and delegate capacities over the years.

I know what the second two are. I didn't recognize the first one, but that's because you got it wrong. It's LiUNA.

By the way, the single laziest human being I ever worked with was UMWA. True story.

But out govt is a consumer and has a right to buy planes and such from any source they want.
Be it union or non union.

Indeed. But the government does not have the right to tell a company where they can build those planes.

And I've said I agree with that.

.

And I've said .

 

[DaGoose]

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.


Big Brother would be proud of you, Goose.

Then I'm sure you'll have no problem showing me what "Rights" are being violated. A Constitutional link would be nice too.

.

That's easy. Freedom of assembly in the 1st Amendment.

People forced by law to join a union are being forced to assemble with people whom they may not wish to.

Do you not see that you keep using the word "forced" yourself? Who do you think is doing the forcing?

Well I would say "compulsory" but it means the same thing. But if it was TRULY a "violation" of your rights don't you think there would have been at least ONE successful legal challenge?

So, no. It is not a violation of your rights as much as you and others would like to think it is.

.

 

[daveman]

Then I'm sure you'll have no problem showing me what "Rights" are being violated. A Constitutional link would be nice too.

.

That's easy. Freedom of assembly in the 1st Amendment.

People forced by law to join a union are being forced to assemble with people whom they may not wish to.

Do you not see that you keep using the word "forced" yourself? Who do you think is doing the forcing?

Well I would say "compulsory" but it means the same thing. But if it was TRULY a "violation" of your rights don't you think there would have been at least ONE successful legal challenge?

So, no. It is not a violation of your rights as much as you and others would like to think it is.

.

Oh, is that the standard?

Well, then, it looks like Bush won the 2000 election, he didn't commit any war crimes, and the invasion of Iraq was perfectly legal. Make sure you tell all your friends.

 

[code1211]

Then I'm sure you'll have no problem showing me what "Rights" are being violated. A Constitutional link would be nice too.

.

That's easy. Freedom of assembly in the 1st Amendment.

People forced by law to join a union are being forced to assemble with people whom they may not wish to.

Do you not see that you keep using the word "forced" yourself? Who do you think is doing the forcing?

Well I would say "compulsory" but it means the same thing. But if it was TRULY a "violation" of your rights don't you think there would have been at least ONE successful legal challenge?

So, no. It is not a violation of your rights as much as you and others would like to think it is.
.

Violation of "rights" is a funny thing, isn't it? "Rights" are only posessed when they are defined and defended. So Rosa Parks helped to define a right that was not recognized by law prior to her making the point.

Rosa did not have the right to sit in the front of the bus. And yet she did have that right under Federal Law. It just wasn't enforced.

In states where Democrat, union supported legislators held majorities, laws were passed that supported unions and robbed individuals of individual rights in favor of union power and, in effect, the "rights" of union bosses to collect dues from members who may or may not have wanted to pay them.

Right to work states redressed this injustice and now allow those who may or may want to pay to not pay.

Saying that the rights of the powerful outweight he rights of the weak is not a proper stance in a civilized society. It is the stance of unions.

 

[DaGoose]

That's easy. Freedom of assembly in the 1st Amendment.

People forced by law to join a union are being forced to assemble with people whom they may not wish to.

Do you not see that you keep using the word "forced" yourself? Who do you think is doing the forcing?

Well I would say "compulsory" but it means the same thing. But if it was TRULY a "violation" of your rights don't you think there would have been at least ONE successful legal challenge?

So, no. It is not a violation of your rights as much as you and others would like to think it is.
.

Violation of "rights" is a funny thing, isn't it? "Rights" are only posessed when they are defined and defended. So Rosa Parks helped to define a right that was not recognized by law prior to her making the point.

Rosa did not have the right to sit in the front of the bus. And yet she did have that right under Federal Law. It just wasn't enforced.

In states where Democrat, union supported legislators held majorities, laws were passed that supported unions and robbed individuals of individual rights in favor of union power and, in effect, the "rights" of union bosses to collect dues from members who may or may not have wanted to pay them.

Right to work states redressed this injustice and now allow those who may or may want to pay to not pay.

Saying that the rights of the powerful outweight he rights of the weak is not a proper stance in a civilized society. It is the stance of unions.

But........nobody is, or has ever been, forced by law to join a union. Right?

.

 

[thereisnospoon]

First of all, this was about private unions and the conservatives desire for a big, activist government that involves itself in private business contracts. But since you brought it up.....

I'm sure you can find extreme examples of huge public pensions but here's some reality for you.....

My wife has a Masters Degree and has been a school teacher for nearly 30 years. Her pension when she retires will be around $28,000 per year and medical insurance that will cost her around $450 per month ($750 if she adds me). Now bear in mind that she cannot collect Social Security, not even survivor benefits from MY Social Security. Yep, sounds like she's really gonna live it up!!

A good friend of mine makes about $25,000 per year guarding prisoners at the county jail. He and his co-workers have had prisoners throw shit and piss on them, spit on them and one guy once puked on him. Two guards have been injured with combative prisoners.

You seem to have a problem paying the people that pick up your garbage, squeegee your shit off the walls at the sewage plant, fix your roads so you can drive around and guard the prisoners that you demand to be taken off the streets.

These are people that have spent the last 25-30 years doing the work that many people would never do. And for the last 25-30 years they have been told, "This is what your pension will be". And now all of the sudden they are being told that "Forget what you've been told for the last 20 years. This is the way it will be now."

And to top it off they have morons like you calling them leeches and accusing them of "fucking the taxpayers". Well Fuck You too. You don't like it then haul your own fucking garbage, arrest your own criminals, take care of your own shit that you flush down to the sewage plant and fix your own damn roads.

.

Please spare us the "poor abused public employee" crap
. It's a big world out there in the private sector. If your buddy the corrections officer didn't like the conditions/ money or both, why the hell did he stay in it for so long? Before you spew, I hear this " I wanted the state benefits"....
And please, "these are jobs most people won't do".....HUH?!!! That's the same argument the Left uses when they are challenged as to why our government refuses to stem the flow of illegal aliens. "They fill jobs Americans won't do". Horse shit!!!!!! Well tell your buddy to quit and let the prison hire someone who will.
Most municipalities are limited service governments. Meaning, these towns and cities hire private contractors to take care of trash collection, street light maintenance, water/sewer, fire protection is by volunteer firefighters as are ambulance corps. So you see, there is no reason to have huge government payrolls full of people who are "just doing it for the benefits and pensions". Oh, the best part.....Property taxes are much lower in these places.

Hmmmm.....my buddy the corrections officer said for you to kiss his ass. I never said he was unhappy with his job/pay. There are ceretain aspects he doesn't care for (like any job) but it's not too much to ask to 1) respect what he does, and 2) not tell him that you suddenly want to reduce his benefits after investing 20 years of his life on the job.

I served in an elected county government capacity for over 10 years. Many governments that have tried to hire out services to a "FOR PROFIT" company found that not only did the costs go up the service was poorer. The taxpayer was STILL on the hook to pay the PRIVATE company's employee pension benefits, social security taxes, workman's comp costs, etc. albeit indirectly.

Here's another rub. In many states an employee is limited by how much he can sue his employer. But that doesn't apply to contracted employees. In a neighboring county a contracted employee sued the school district and, since he wasn't a direct employee, was able to get an award of several hundred thousand dollars that the taxpayers had to pay.

I live in a volunteer FD district and served on it for 4 years. There is no way that a volunteer department can keep up in an area that gets calls all night every night.

Lastly, the county portion for my property tax bill is around $75 per year. Not too bad for police protection, county jail, courts and road work, eh?

On the surface what you posted may sound good. But the devil's in the details.

Class dismissed.

.

Anyone can come up with an unusual circumstance where the condition falls outside the norms.
I was stating in general.
If you are paying $75 per year in property taxes, it is likely you live in an unincorporated area in a county with a very small budget and limited government. Thanks for making my point.
BTW, how many of those government workers by you have civil service protections, union scale wages and gold plated benefits packages? None? Yes, that is why your property taxes are so low.
Your buddy can go kiss his own ass. Or get tackled and licked all over by one of the inmates.
Like I said, he can quit his job if he hates it so much. Thing is, most government workers cannot make it in the private sector because longtime government workers become "institutionalized".

 

[DaGoose]

Please spare us the "poor abused public employee" crap
. It's a big world out there in the private sector. If your buddy the corrections officer didn't like the conditions/ money or both, why the hell did he stay in it for so long? Before you spew, I hear this " I wanted the state benefits"....
And please, "these are jobs most people won't do".....HUH?!!! That's the same argument the Left uses when they are challenged as to why our government refuses to stem the flow of illegal aliens. "They fill jobs Americans won't do". Horse shit!!!!!! Well tell your buddy to quit and let the prison hire someone who will.
Most municipalities are limited service governments. Meaning, these towns and cities hire private contractors to take care of trash collection, street light maintenance, water/sewer, fire protection is by volunteer firefighters as are ambulance corps. So you see, there is no reason to have huge government payrolls full of people who are "just doing it for the benefits and pensions". Oh, the best part.....Property taxes are much lower in these places.

Hmmmm.....my buddy the corrections officer said for you to kiss his ass. I never said he was unhappy with his job/pay. There are ceretain aspects he doesn't care for (like any job) but it's not too much to ask to 1) respect what he does, and 2) not tell him that you suddenly want to reduce his benefits after investing 20 years of his life on the job.

I served in an elected county government capacity for over 10 years. Many governments that have tried to hire out services to a "FOR PROFIT" company found that not only did the costs go up the service was poorer. The taxpayer was STILL on the hook to pay the PRIVATE company's employee pension benefits, social security taxes, workman's comp costs, etc. albeit indirectly.

Here's another rub. In many states an employee is limited by how much he can sue his employer. But that doesn't apply to contracted employees. In a neighboring county a contracted employee sued the school district and, since he wasn't a direct employee, was able to get an award of several hundred thousand dollars that the taxpayers had to pay.

I live in a volunteer FD district and served on it for 4 years. There is no way that a volunteer department can keep up in an area that gets calls all night every night.

Lastly, the county portion for my property tax bill is around $75 per year. Not too bad for police protection, county jail, courts and road work, eh?

On the surface what you posted may sound good. But the devil's in the details.

Class dismissed.

.

Anyone can come up with an unusual circumstance where the condition falls outside the norms.
I was stating in general.
If you are paying $75 per year in property taxes, it is likely you live in an unincorporated area in a county with a very small budget and limited government. Thanks for making my point.
BTW, how many of those government workers by you have civil service protections, union scale wages and gold plated benefits packages? None? Yes, that is why your property taxes are so low.
Your buddy can go kiss his own ass. Or get tackled and licked all over by one of the inmates.
Like I said, he can quit his job if he hates it so much. Thing is, most government workers cannot make it in the private sector because longtime government workers become "institutionalized".

Wow. You're a spiteful little bastard, aren't you?

Anyone can come up with an unusual circumstance where the condition falls outside the norms.

Again....In many states an employee is limited by how much he can sue his employer. But that doesn't apply to contracted employees. In a neighboring county a contracted employee sued the school district and, since he wasn't a direct employee, was able to get an award of several hundred thousand dollars that the taxpayers had to pay.

And if you don't think it could happen in your county by "contracted employees" I have some swamp land for sale. It doesn't take much to research this. Look it up or ask your elected reps if that could happen in your school district or county. You'll be in for a shock.

If you are paying $75 per year in property taxes, it is likely you live in an unincorporated area in a county with a very small budget and limited government. Thanks for making my point.
BTW, how many of those government workers by you have civil service protections, union scale wages and gold plated benefits packages? None? Yes, that is why your property taxes are so low.

I didn't say my property taxes are $75 a year, just the county portion. And ALL county workers in my county are full time workers with union scale wages and retirement benefits. And I should know since I spent many years on the County Board.

Like I said, he can quit his job if he hates it so much. Thing is, most government workers cannot make it in the private sector because longtime government workers become "institutionalized"

And like I said, he doesn't hate his job. He only asks for a little respect and that the taxpayers live up to their end of the employment bargain he made with them. He's actually proud of what he does protecting your ass from the bad guys.

And from what you post I really don't think you know much of anything about how local government works or the workers that keep it going. Visit your local courthouse and/or attend a school board meeting. Ask LOTS of questions and try and learn something. The reason God gave you two ears and one mouth is so you would listen twice as much as you talk.

And if you don't care enough to attend meetings to see how your tax dollars are spent then you need to simply shut up about it. Because nobody wants to listen to uninformed bullshit.

.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hmmmm.....my buddy the corrections officer said for you to kiss his ass. I never said he was unhappy with his job/pay. There are ceretain aspects he doesn't care for (like any job) but it's not too much to ask to 1) respect what he does, and 2) not tell him that you suddenly want to reduce his benefits after investing 20 years of his life on the job.

I served in an elected county government capacity for over 10 years. Many governments that have tried to hire out services to a "FOR PROFIT" company found that not only did the costs go up the service was poorer. The taxpayer was STILL on the hook to pay the PRIVATE company's employee pension benefits, social security taxes, workman's comp costs, etc. albeit indirectly.

Here's another rub. In many states an employee is limited by how much he can sue his employer. But that doesn't apply to contracted employees. In a neighboring county a contracted employee sued the school district and, since he wasn't a direct employee, was able to get an award of several hundred thousand dollars that the taxpayers had to pay.

I live in a volunteer FD district and served on it for 4 years. There is no way that a volunteer department can keep up in an area that gets calls all night every night.

Lastly, the county portion for my property tax bill is around $75 per year. Not too bad for police protection, county jail, courts and road work, eh?

On the surface what you posted may sound good. But the devil's in the details.

Class dismissed.

.

Anyone can come up with an unusual circumstance where the condition falls outside the norms.
I was stating in general.
If you are paying $75 per year in property taxes, it is likely you live in an unincorporated area in a county with a very small budget and limited government. Thanks for making my point.
BTW, how many of those government workers by you have civil service protections, union scale wages and gold plated benefits packages? None? Yes, that is why your property taxes are so low.
Your buddy can go kiss his own ass. Or get tackled and licked all over by one of the inmates.
Like I said, he can quit his job if he hates it so much. Thing is, most government workers cannot make it in the private sector because longtime government workers become "institutionalized".

Wow. You're a spiteful little bastard, aren't you?



Again....In many states an employee is limited by how much he can sue his employer. But that doesn't apply to contracted employees. In a neighboring county a contracted employee sued the school district and, since he wasn't a direct employee, was able to get an award of several hundred thousand dollars that the taxpayers had to pay.

And if you don't think it could happen in your county by "contracted employees" I have some swamp land for sale. It doesn't take much to research this. Look it up or ask your elected reps if that could happen in your school district or county. You'll be in for a shock.

If you are paying $75 per year in property taxes, it is likely you live in an unincorporated area in a county with a very small budget and limited government. Thanks for making my point.
BTW, how many of those government workers by you have civil service protections, union scale wages and gold plated benefits packages? None? Yes, that is why your property taxes are so low.

I didn't say my property taxes are $75 a year, just the county portion. And ALL county workers in my county are full time workers with union scale wages and retirement benefits. And I should know since I spent many years on the County Board.

Like I said, he can quit his job if he hates it so much. Thing is, most government workers cannot make it in the private sector because longtime government workers become "institutionalized"

And like I said, he doesn't hate his job. He only asks for a little respect and that the taxpayers live up to their end of the employment bargain he made with them. He's actually proud of what he does protecting your ass from the bad guys.

And from what you post I really don't think you know much of anything about how local government works or the workers that keep it going. Visit your local courthouse and/or attend a school board meeting. Ask LOTS of questions and try and learn something. The reason God gave you two ears and one mouth is so you would listen twice as much as you talk.

And if you don't care enough to attend meetings to see how your tax dollars are spent then you need to simply shut up about it. Because nobody wants to listen to uninformed bullshit.

.

Who said anything about lawsuits? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Lame and more lame. Please.
Respect? Shut the fuck up ,do your job and move forward. Otherwise, leave the job. Respect. Oy vay.
BTW, I have forgotten more than you'll ever know about the inner workings of local government. That's because I am not nor do I plan on being a politician. Unlike you.
Actually it's not at all complicated. It is politicians and career minded employees wishing to protect their turf that make it complicated. And in government, complicated means expensive.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hmmmm.....my buddy the corrections officer said for you to kiss his ass. I never said he was unhappy with his job/pay. There are ceretain aspects he doesn't care for (like any job) but it's not too much to ask to 1) respect what he does, and 2) not tell him that you suddenly want to reduce his benefits after investing 20 years of his life on the job.

I served in an elected county government capacity for over 10 years. Many governments that have tried to hire out services to a "FOR PROFIT" company found that not only did the costs go up the service was poorer. The taxpayer was STILL on the hook to pay the PRIVATE company's employee pension benefits, social security taxes, workman's comp costs, etc. albeit indirectly.

Here's another rub. In many states an employee is limited by how much he can sue his employer. But that doesn't apply to contracted employees. In a neighboring county a contracted employee sued the school district and, since he wasn't a direct employee, was able to get an award of several hundred thousand dollars that the taxpayers had to pay.

I live in a volunteer FD district and served on it for 4 years. There is no way that a volunteer department can keep up in an area that gets calls all night every night.

Lastly, the county portion for my property tax bill is around $75 per year. Not too bad for police protection, county jail, courts and road work, eh?

On the surface what you posted may sound good. But the devil's in the details.

Class dismissed.

.

Anyone can come up with an unusual circumstance where the condition falls outside the norms.
I was stating in general.
If you are paying $75 per year in property taxes, it is likely you live in an unincorporated area in a county with a very small budget and limited government. Thanks for making my point.
BTW, how many of those government workers by you have civil service protections, union scale wages and gold plated benefits packages? None? Yes, that is why your property taxes are so low.
Your buddy can go kiss his own ass. Or get tackled and licked all over by one of the inmates.
Like I said, he can quit his job if he hates it so much. Thing is, most government workers cannot make it in the private sector because longtime government workers become "institutionalized".

Wow. You're a spiteful little bastard, aren't you?



Again....In many states an employee is limited by how much he can sue his employer. But that doesn't apply to contracted employees. In a neighboring county a contracted employee sued the school district and, since he wasn't a direct employee, was able to get an award of several hundred thousand dollars that the taxpayers had to pay.

And if you don't think it could happen in your county by "contracted employees" I have some swamp land for sale. It doesn't take much to research this. Look it up or ask your elected reps if that could happen in your school district or county. You'll be in for a shock.

If you are paying $75 per year in property taxes, it is likely you live in an unincorporated area in a county with a very small budget and limited government. Thanks for making my point.
BTW, how many of those government workers by you have civil service protections, union scale wages and gold plated benefits packages? None? Yes, that is why your property taxes are so low.

I didn't say my property taxes are $75 a year, just the county portion. And ALL county workers in my county are full time workers with union scale wages and retirement benefits. And I should know since I spent many years on the County Board.

Like I said, he can quit his job if he hates it so much. Thing is, most government workers cannot make it in the private sector because longtime government workers become "institutionalized"

And like I said, he doesn't hate his job. He only asks for a little respect and that the taxpayers live up to their end of the employment bargain he made with them. He's actually proud of what he does protecting your ass from the bad guys.

And from what you post I really don't think you know much of anything about how local government works or the workers that keep it going. Visit your local courthouse and/or attend a school board meeting. Ask LOTS of questions and try and learn something. The reason God gave you two ears and one mouth is so you would listen twice as much as you talk.

And if you don't care enough to attend meetings to see how your tax dollars are spent then you need to simply shut up about it. Because nobody wants to listen to uninformed bullshit.

.

Ok if your county taxes which go to fund county workers who you claim are full time union scale employees, mind telling us where the funding comes from? Cuz $75 bucks a year ain't gonna get it done.
Christ....

 

[DaGoose]

Anyone can come up with an unusual circumstance where the condition falls outside the norms.
I was stating in general.
If you are paying $75 per year in property taxes, it is likely you live in an unincorporated area in a county with a very small budget and limited government. Thanks for making my point.
BTW, how many of those government workers by you have civil service protections, union scale wages and gold plated benefits packages? None? Yes, that is why your property taxes are so low.
Your buddy can go kiss his own ass. Or get tackled and licked all over by one of the inmates.
Like I said, he can quit his job if he hates it so much. Thing is, most government workers cannot make it in the private sector because longtime government workers become "institutionalized".

Wow. You're a spiteful little bastard, aren't you?



Again....In many states an employee is limited by how much he can sue his employer. But that doesn't apply to contracted employees. In a neighboring county a contracted employee sued the school district and, since he wasn't a direct employee, was able to get an award of several hundred thousand dollars that the taxpayers had to pay.

And if you don't think it could happen in your county by "contracted employees" I have some swamp land for sale. It doesn't take much to research this. Look it up or ask your elected reps if that could happen in your school district or county. You'll be in for a shock.



I didn't say my property taxes are $75 a year, just the county portion. And ALL county workers in my county are full time workers with union scale wages and retirement benefits. And I should know since I spent many years on the County Board.

Like I said, he can quit his job if he hates it so much. Thing is, most government workers cannot make it in the private sector because longtime government workers become "institutionalized"

And like I said, he doesn't hate his job. He only asks for a little respect and that the taxpayers live up to their end of the employment bargain he made with them. He's actually proud of what he does protecting your ass from the bad guys.

And from what you post I really don't think you know much of anything about how local government works or the workers that keep it going. Visit your local courthouse and/or attend a school board meeting. Ask LOTS of questions and try and learn something. The reason God gave you two ears and one mouth is so you would listen twice as much as you talk.

And if you don't care enough to attend meetings to see how your tax dollars are spent then you need to simply shut up about it. Because nobody wants to listen to uninformed bullshit.

.

Who said anything about lawsuits? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Lame and more lame. Please.
Respect? Shut the fuck up ,do your job and move forward. Otherwise, leave the job. Respect. Oy vay.
BTW, I have forgotten more than you'll ever know about the inner workings of local government. That's because I am not nor do I plan on being a politician. Unlike you.
Actually it's not at all complicated. It is politicians and career minded employees wishing to protect their turf that make it complicated. And in government, complicated means expensive.

I brought up lawsuits as just one of the downfalls to privatization. And the fact that you didn't know that shows that you don't know jack shit about local government or how it operates.

So crawl back under your fucking rock and don't come out unless you have at least a small clue as to what you're talking about.

.

 

[DaGoose]

Anyone can come up with an unusual circumstance where the condition falls outside the norms.
I was stating in general.
If you are paying $75 per year in property taxes, it is likely you live in an unincorporated area in a county with a very small budget and limited government. Thanks for making my point.
BTW, how many of those government workers by you have civil service protections, union scale wages and gold plated benefits packages? None? Yes, that is why your property taxes are so low.
Your buddy can go kiss his own ass. Or get tackled and licked all over by one of the inmates.
Like I said, he can quit his job if he hates it so much. Thing is, most government workers cannot make it in the private sector because longtime government workers become "institutionalized".

Wow. You're a spiteful little bastard, aren't you?



Again....In many states an employee is limited by how much he can sue his employer. But that doesn't apply to contracted employees. In a neighboring county a contracted employee sued the school district and, since he wasn't a direct employee, was able to get an award of several hundred thousand dollars that the taxpayers had to pay.

And if you don't think it could happen in your county by "contracted employees" I have some swamp land for sale. It doesn't take much to research this. Look it up or ask your elected reps if that could happen in your school district or county. You'll be in for a shock.



I didn't say my property taxes are $75 a year, just the county portion. And ALL county workers in my county are full time workers with union scale wages and retirement benefits. And I should know since I spent many years on the County Board.

Like I said, he can quit his job if he hates it so much. Thing is, most government workers cannot make it in the private sector because longtime government workers become "institutionalized"

And like I said, he doesn't hate his job. He only asks for a little respect and that the taxpayers live up to their end of the employment bargain he made with them. He's actually proud of what he does protecting your ass from the bad guys.

And from what you post I really don't think you know much of anything about how local government works or the workers that keep it going. Visit your local courthouse and/or attend a school board meeting. Ask LOTS of questions and try and learn something. The reason God gave you two ears and one mouth is so you would listen twice as much as you talk.

And if you don't care enough to attend meetings to see how your tax dollars are spent then you need to simply shut up about it. Because nobody wants to listen to uninformed bullshit.

.

Ok if your county taxes which go to fund county workers who you claim are full time union scale employees, mind telling us where the funding comes from? Cuz $75 bucks a year ain't gonna get it done.
Christ....

Then why don't you tell me what YOU pay on the county portion. Then we'll go from there.
.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Wow. You're a spiteful little bastard, aren't you?



Again....In many states an employee is limited by how much he can sue his employer. But that doesn't apply to contracted employees. In a neighboring county a contracted employee sued the school district and, since he wasn't a direct employee, was able to get an award of several hundred thousand dollars that the taxpayers had to pay.

And if you don't think it could happen in your county by "contracted employees" I have some swamp land for sale. It doesn't take much to research this. Look it up or ask your elected reps if that could happen in your school district or county. You'll be in for a shock.



I didn't say my property taxes are $75 a year, just the county portion. And ALL county workers in my county are full time workers with union scale wages and retirement benefits. And I should know since I spent many years on the County Board.



And like I said, he doesn't hate his job. He only asks for a little respect and that the taxpayers live up to their end of the employment bargain he made with them. He's actually proud of what he does protecting your ass from the bad guys.

And from what you post I really don't think you know much of anything about how local government works or the workers that keep it going. Visit your local courthouse and/or attend a school board meeting. Ask LOTS of questions and try and learn something. The reason God gave you two ears and one mouth is so you would listen twice as much as you talk.

And if you don't care enough to attend meetings to see how your tax dollars are spent then you need to simply shut up about it. Because nobody wants to listen to uninformed bullshit.

.

Who said anything about lawsuits? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Lame and more lame. Please.
Respect? Shut the fuck up ,do your job and move forward. Otherwise, leave the job. Respect. Oy vay.
BTW, I have forgotten more than you'll ever know about the inner workings of local government. That's because I am not nor do I plan on being a politician. Unlike you.
Actually it's not at all complicated. It is politicians and career minded employees wishing to protect their turf that make it complicated. And in government, complicated means expensive.

I brought up lawsuits as just one of the downfalls to privatization. And the fact that you didn't know that shows that you don't know jack shit about local government or how it operates.

So crawl back under your fucking rock and don't come out unless you have at least a small clue as to what you're talking about.

.

Gotcha! Hit a nerve, didn't I?
Like I said, I have forgotten more than you'll ever know.
The problem is yours. The lawsuit thing was a dodge. You cannot produce a half decent rebuttal to my question as to how a $75 per year county tax obligation can fund a full time union scale paid county staff....
So you stoop to the level of the nonsense you rolled out in your last sentence.
Yes, your last sentence. Perhaps you should go and lick your wounds and make that last sentence on this matter your very last.
BTW genius, even in home state of New Jersey where unionized civil service is presently ,but not for long ruling the day, many towns contract out trash pickup, school bus service, recycling, grounds maintenance for parks, have volunteer fire and ambulance corps....Lots of stuff. \
As a matter of fact non-paid or at least non union government employment is the rule and not the exception.
Anyway, this is way off topic.
Boeing has every right to locate their new plants where they wish. And if that pisses off the union people, that is their problem. It is what it is.

 

[DaGoose]

Who said anything about lawsuits? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Lame and more lame. Please.
Respect? Shut the fuck up ,do your job and move forward. Otherwise, leave the job. Respect. Oy vay.
BTW, I have forgotten more than you'll ever know about the inner workings of local government. That's because I am not nor do I plan on being a politician. Unlike you.
Actually it's not at all complicated. It is politicians and career minded employees wishing to protect their turf that make it complicated. And in government, complicated means expensive.

I brought up lawsuits as just one of the downfalls to privatization. And the fact that you didn't know that shows that you don't know jack shit about local government or how it operates.

So crawl back under your fucking rock and don't come out unless you have at least a small clue as to what you're talking about.

.

Gotcha! Hit a nerve, didn't I?
Like I said, I have forgotten more than you'll ever know.
The problem is yours. The lawsuit thing was a dodge. You cannot produce a half decent rebuttal to my question as to how a $75 per year county tax obligation can fund a full time union scale paid county staff....
So you stoop to the level of the nonsense you rolled out in your last sentence.
Yes, your last sentence. Perhaps you should go and lick your wounds and make that last sentence on this matter your very last.
BTW genius, even in home state of New Jersey where unionized civil service is presently ,but not for long ruling the day, many towns contract out trash pickup, school bus service, recycling, grounds maintenance for parks, have volunteer fire and ambulance corps....Lots of stuff. \
As a matter of fact non-paid or at least non union government employment is the rule and not the exception.
Anyway, this is way off topic.
Boeing has every right to locate their new plants where they wish. And if that pisses off the union people, that is their problem. It is what it is.

And had you bothered to read back through the posts you would see that I had already said the same thing about Boeing there dumbass. You're really on top of things, eh?

The only thing that hits a nerve is when someone who knows nothing about local government tries to pass themselves off as some sort of expert. Especially when it's obvious that they have never even been to so much as a school board meeting.

You keep talking about towns and school bussing and I'm referring to the county portion of your property taxes. You do know the difference, don't you? Obviously not. (hint: bussing is a school thing, not a county or town thing, dumbass.) Oh yeah, you're an "expert" all right!!

Hell, even firefighting isn't a county thing. And given the fact that nationwide over 70% of all firefighters are volunteer it doesn't surprise me that your area has lots of volunteer firefighters. Do you think New Jersey invented that idea? Are you trying to say that your local governments got rid of the paid FD's and replaced them with VFD's? If so please provide a link. I think you'll find out that the VFD's have ALWAYS been that way. (BTW...Have you done your part and put a couple of years in on your local dept or just sit back and let others do your share?)

And the fact that you failed to say what your county portion is leads me to the fact that you either 1) don't know how to read a property tax bill or 2) rent and do not pay property taxes. Which is it?

So with each passing post you just keep showing everyone just how willing you are to argue on subjects of which you're completely ignorant.

So try again and dazzle me with all of your supposed "knowledge". I can't wait!!

.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I brought up lawsuits as just one of the downfalls to privatization. And the fact that you didn't know that shows that you don't know jack shit about local government or how it operates.

So crawl back under your fucking rock and don't come out unless you have at least a small clue as to what you're talking about.

.

Gotcha! Hit a nerve, didn't I?
Like I said, I have forgotten more than you'll ever know.
The problem is yours. The lawsuit thing was a dodge. You cannot produce a half decent rebuttal to my question as to how a $75 per year county tax obligation can fund a full time union scale paid county staff....
So you stoop to the level of the nonsense you rolled out in your last sentence.
Yes, your last sentence. Perhaps you should go and lick your wounds and make that last sentence on this matter your very last.
BTW genius, even in home state of New Jersey where unionized civil service is presently ,but not for long ruling the day, many towns contract out trash pickup, school bus service, recycling, grounds maintenance for parks, have volunteer fire and ambulance corps....Lots of stuff. \
As a matter of fact non-paid or at least non union government employment is the rule and not the exception.
Anyway, this is way off topic.
Boeing has every right to locate their new plants where they wish. And if that pisses off the union people, that is their problem. It is what it is.

And had you bothered to read back through the posts you would see that I had already said the same thing about Boeing there dumbass. You're really on top of things, eh?

The only thing that hits a nerve is when someone who knows nothing about local government tries to pass themselves off as some sort of expert. Especially when it's obvious that they have never even been to so much as a school board meeting.

You keep talking about towns and school bussing and I'm referring to the county portion of your property taxes. You do know the difference, don't you? Obviously not. (hint: bussing is a school thing, not a county or town thing, dumbass.) Oh yeah, you're an "expert" all right!!

Hell, even firefighting isn't a county thing. And given the fact that nationwide over 70% of all firefighters are volunteer it doesn't surprise me that your area has lots of volunteer firefighters. Do you think New Jersey invented that idea? Are you trying to say that your local governments got rid of the paid FD's and replaced them with VFD's? If so please provide a link. I think you'll find out that the VFD's have ALWAYS been that way. (BTW...Have you done your part and put a couple of years in on your local dept or just sit back and let others do your share?)

And the fact that you failed to say what your county portion is leads me to the fact that you either 1) don't know how to read a property tax bill or 2) rent and do not pay property taxes. Which is it?

So with each passing post you just keep showing everyone just how willing you are to argue on subjects of which you're completely ignorant.

So try again and dazzle me with all of your supposed "knowledge". I can't wait!!

.

Stop trying to impress yourself. It was you who went off topic.

 

[JackDan]

Sorry I am definately coming into this topic late, but I would like to give you some examples of how horrible unions are from a business owners perspective.
Ok, so I am part of a steel/alloy distibution center, and we sell all sorts of metal parts to an array of industries, from shipbuilding, oem, to aerospace. We are not union, but my competitor, who is, I am very close with and we speak about it on a daily basis. The union is pretty much in its simplest form a wall between the employees and management, and it completely ruins company productivity, and morale. Lets say a new worker is hired as a semi driver, and in his first week he can handle 24 stops in a day, the other drivers pull him aside and say, "hey man you are making us look bad, just do 10 stops a day and it will look like we are all working at the same pace." It will look like that is the most we can do in a day, and if they have a problem with it they can't even fire us without jumping through 80 hoops! Any discussion between how many stops a day has to be done through a union rep and nothing is even accomplished except dollars are being wasted as the fight progresses. This doesn't just go for delivering product, this problem is throughout his whole warehouse, from pulling orders to putting away stock, his workers have a deep seeded problem of only doing little enough to get by. Meanwhile we are delivering 20-25 stops a day per semi and gobbling up market share like it is going out of style because our customers are also more pleased with our quality of work.

From the employer side, we reward our employee's for the productivity by giving them higher wages and better benefits, therefore they are also out earning their union counterparts in salary as well because they do not have to pay union dues.

I agree that in some instances a union can be of a benefit to it's workers that are being exploited, but the WHOLE point of forming a union from the union's standpoint is to EXPLOIT the company AND its workers. This being said, boeing or whomever for that matter should be able to relocate with no reprocussions. My friend is not so lucky, he can't stop the union and his rate of return has gone into the negative. If this continues he will have to either close his doors and open a new shop, or just close down for good. His own employee's that he has no ability to fire are slowing ruining his business. Unions are just a business to make money, thats the bottom line. They are leeches.

Well it looks like i've wasted enough productivity for today, back to work.

 

[DaGoose]

Gotcha! Hit a nerve, didn't I?
Like I said, I have forgotten more than you'll ever know.
The problem is yours. The lawsuit thing was a dodge. You cannot produce a half decent rebuttal to my question as to how a $75 per year county tax obligation can fund a full time union scale paid county staff....
So you stoop to the level of the nonsense you rolled out in your last sentence.
Yes, your last sentence. Perhaps you should go and lick your wounds and make that last sentence on this matter your very last.
BTW genius, even in home state of New Jersey where unionized civil service is presently ,but not for long ruling the day, many towns contract out trash pickup, school bus service, recycling, grounds maintenance for parks, have volunteer fire and ambulance corps....Lots of stuff. \
As a matter of fact non-paid or at least non union government employment is the rule and not the exception.
Anyway, this is way off topic.
Boeing has every right to locate their new plants where they wish. And if that pisses off the union people, that is their problem. It is what it is.

And had you bothered to read back through the posts you would see that I had already said the same thing about Boeing there dumbass. You're really on top of things, eh?

The only thing that hits a nerve is when someone who knows nothing about local government tries to pass themselves off as some sort of expert. Especially when it's obvious that they have never even been to so much as a school board meeting.

You keep talking about towns and school bussing and I'm referring to the county portion of your property taxes. You do know the difference, don't you? Obviously not. (hint: bussing is a school thing, not a county or town thing, dumbass.) Oh yeah, you're an "expert" all right!!

Hell, even firefighting isn't a county thing. And given the fact that nationwide over 70% of all firefighters are volunteer it doesn't surprise me that your area has lots of volunteer firefighters. Do you think New Jersey invented that idea? Are you trying to say that your local governments got rid of the paid FD's and replaced them with VFD's? If so please provide a link. I think you'll find out that the VFD's have ALWAYS been that way. (BTW...Have you done your part and put a couple of years in on your local dept or just sit back and let others do your share?)

And the fact that you failed to say what your county portion is leads me to the fact that you either 1) don't know how to read a property tax bill or 2) rent and do not pay property taxes. Which is it?

So with each passing post you just keep showing everyone just how willing you are to argue on subjects of which you're completely ignorant.

So try again and dazzle me with all of your supposed "knowledge". I can't wait!!

.

Stop trying to impress yourself. It was you who went off topic.

The only thing that impresses me is how impressively ignorant you are of local politics yet try to pass yourself off as some sort of "expert".

Since you can't run with the big dogs on this subject please stay on the porch.

.

 

[thereisnospoon]

And had you bothered to read back through the posts you would see that I had already said the same thing about Boeing there dumbass. You're really on top of things, eh?

The only thing that hits a nerve is when someone who knows nothing about local government tries to pass themselves off as some sort of expert. Especially when it's obvious that they have never even been to so much as a school board meeting.

You keep talking about towns and school bussing and I'm referring to the county portion of your property taxes. You do know the difference, don't you? Obviously not. (hint: bussing is a school thing, not a county or town thing, dumbass.) Oh yeah, you're an "expert" all right!!

Hell, even firefighting isn't a county thing. And given the fact that nationwide over 70% of all firefighters are volunteer it doesn't surprise me that your area has lots of volunteer firefighters. Do you think New Jersey invented that idea? Are you trying to say that your local governments got rid of the paid FD's and replaced them with VFD's? If so please provide a link. I think you'll find out that the VFD's have ALWAYS been that way. (BTW...Have you done your part and put a couple of years in on your local dept or just sit back and let others do your share?)

And the fact that you failed to say what your county portion is leads me to the fact that you either 1) don't know how to read a property tax bill or 2) rent and do not pay property taxes. Which is it?

So with each passing post you just keep showing everyone just how willing you are to argue on subjects of which you're completely ignorant.

So try again and dazzle me with all of your supposed "knowledge". I can't wait!!

.

Stop trying to impress yourself. It was you who went off topic.

The only thing that impresses me is how impressively ignorant you are of local politics yet try to pass yourself off as some sort of "expert".

Since you can't run with the big dogs on this subject please stay on the porch.

.

Dude. I crushed you.
I never said I was an expert. I said I knew more than you. You are trying to deflect the thread away from the topic which is Boeing.
Look, you're a pro union wonk. We know that. It is that issue you wish to interject into every thread in which you participate. You think the entire workforce needs to be represented by unions and it pisses you off that Boeing found a way around your precious union bosses.
Hey genius, remember when you were told that in New Jersey, school bus transportation is privatized? Well guess what, here in North Carolina, the bus vehicles are owned and operated by the State. So there goes your idea that student transportation is a local school issue right out into the trash heap.
Who is the dickhead now?
Now, pull your bottom lip over your pea sized head and swallow.

 

[DaGoose]

It shouldn't. I'm about as pro-labor as you can get, and I think this shit with Boeing and the unions is bullshit. Boeing can open a factory wherever they want.

Well, that answers my question. Thanks.

And as "pro-labor" as I am I agree. That is an overstep of federal authority.

.

Stop trying to impress yourself. It was you who went off topic.

The only thing that impresses me is how impressively ignorant you are of local politics yet try to pass yourself off as some sort of "expert".

Since you can't run with the big dogs on this subject please stay on the porch.

.

Dude. I crushed you.
I never said I was an expert. I said I knew more than you. You are trying to deflect the thread away from the topic which is Boeing.
Look, you're a pro union wonk. We know that. It is that issue you wish to interject into every thread in which you participate. You think the entire workforce needs to be represented by unions and it pisses you off that Boeing found a way around your precious union bosses.
Hey genius, remember when you were told that in New Jersey, school bus transportation is privatized? Well guess what, here in North Carolina, the bus vehicles are owned and operated by the State. So there goes your idea that student transportation is a local school issue right out into the trash heap.
Who is the dickhead now?
Now, pull your bottom lip over your pea sized head and swallow.

Not only are you ignorant but you are also a LIAR (see above). I've already weiged in on the Boeing issue and again (and as usual) you're WRONG. And since I've called it to your attention more than once that makes you a LIAR too. But I guess since you've already ran down the road of ignorance it doesn't hurt to run a little further. But I've got you in a hole so deep I doubt you can ever get out.

(BTW....you're still the dickhead, but now you're a lying dickhead.)

.



Listen,

 

[thereisnospoon]

Well, that answers my question. Thanks.

And as "pro-labor" as I am I agree. That is an overstep of federal authority.

.

The only thing that impresses me is how impressively ignorant you are of local politics yet try to pass yourself off as some sort of "expert".

Since you can't run with the big dogs on this subject please stay on the porch.

.

Dude. I crushed you.
I never said I was an expert. I said I knew more than you. You are trying to deflect the thread away from the topic which is Boeing.
Look, you're a pro union wonk. We know that. It is that issue you wish to interject into every thread in which you participate. You think the entire workforce needs to be represented by unions and it pisses you off that Boeing found a way around your precious union bosses.
Hey genius, remember when you were told that in New Jersey, school bus transportation is privatized? Well guess what, here in North Carolina, the bus vehicles are owned and operated by the State. So there goes your idea that student transportation is a local school issue right out into the trash heap.
Who is the dickhead now?
Now, pull your bottom lip over your pea sized head and swallow.

Not only are you ignorant but you are also a LIAR (see above). I've already weiged in on the Boeing issue and again (and as usual) you're WRONG. And since I've called it to your attention more than once that makes you a LIAR too. But I guess since you've already ran down the road of ignorance it doesn't hurt to run a little further. But I've got you in a hole so deep I doubt you can ever get out.

(BTW....you're still the dickhead, but now you're a lying dickhead.)

.



Listen,

Calling someone a liar. The liberal's last ditch effort to hold onto the one remaining thread of credibility they think they might have.
You can playground brawl all you like. I still crushed your ass. Unions are dead. Case closed.