Bible Questions

[emilynghiem]

If atheists or nonbelievers have an issue with the pledge stating "One Nation under God"
which was added later, why not print their own version as "One Nation for the Public Good"

Why have the unnecessary phrase in the Pledge at all?

Indeed, why should there be a Pledge to a flag?

Flag worship is idolatry, and violates the First Commandment.

In English, the words "good" and "god" are very close, but it is just a coincidence.

"Good" comes from an Indo-European root *GHEDH-, which means "unite, fit, come together" (probably cognate with the word "cosmos")

"God" comes from the Indo-European root *GHEU- "call", *GHEU-TO- "the invoked", ---> Germanic *gudam "god".
Amusingly, to an atheist like me, the word giddy comes from the Old English gydig, "insane" [god-possessed].
.

If people consent to a pledge, let them consent and express themselves freely.
If people dissent, let them resolve how to accommodate each other without violating consent.

As for coincidence yes, I think there is that going on too.
I joke that the reason for mistranslating Holy Spirit as Holy Ghost
as Baptist Hymnals can only rhyme Spirit with hear it, not a lot to work with.
But Ghost you can rhyme with Heavenly Host, and Most etc.
So it works better for church hymnals anyway.

the most intriguing distortion is
Yeshua (Salvation) as
Jesus (some say it is turning it into I-Zeus or deifying man etc.)
but I see this as making a parallel with
Jesus as Justice

So under spiritual church laws Jesus is Salvation
While under secular state laws Jesus is Justice

So that's my theory of why the name got twisted around
with a J which many decry as not the original Hebrew
and changing the meaning of the name of Christ

I agree, but still believe 'tis for a reason...
God/Spiritual Reality works in mysterious ways!

 

[emilynghiem]

The original was simply "one nation with liberty..." and that works perfectly. FYI new citizens being sworn in for the first time can take the pledge without the "under God" part if they so choose.

Interesting!
I thought the original had nothing there, and this was inserted.

Sadly it makes sense that "with liberty"
would be removed because that's been happening in reality.
Not so much by govt itself but by political infighting and waste backlogging the system.

[DT may I private msg you about this church-state stuff?
I have this personal worry that by the time
I resolve issues between the two authorities of law,
I'd end up defining some hybrid political religion, like
a "denomination of Constitutionalism" that is
different from the standards being practiced now.
A friend gave me the term "isocracy," but I think
what I believe about equal responsibility is "isonomy."
I hope you will still be my friend after we hash this out further.
It was almost safer to think it wasn't possible to address at all! Thank you DT
I will try to be brave and post my letter to a Senator under Politics.
And see if anyone else responds to the project so I don't feel like a total freak.
I've been told repeatedly that isocracy has never worked, but I believe it can in an organized "intentional community"
so I'm willing to pursue a pilot study and see if people can operate that way or not, accommodating differences by consensus.]

 

[Derideo_Te]

The original was simply "one nation with liberty..." and that works perfectly. FYI new citizens being sworn in for the first time can take the pledge without the "under God" part if they so choose.

Interesting!
I thought the original had nothing there, and this was inserted.

Sadly it makes sense that "with liberty"
would be removed because that's been happening in reality.
Not so much by govt itself but by political infighting and waste backlogging the system.

I did not get the original quote correct. Mea culpa. I have amended it above.

[DT may I private msg you about this church-state stuff?
I have this personal worry that by the time
I resolve issues between the two authorities of law,
I'd end up defining some hybrid political religion, like
a "denomination of Constitutionalism" that is
different from the standards being practiced now.
A friend gave me the term "isocracy," but I think
what I believe about equal responsibility is "isonomy."
I hope you will still be my friend after we hash this out further.
It was almost safer to think it wasn't possible to address at all! Thank you DT
I will try to be brave and post my letter to a Senator under Politics.
And see if anyone else responds to the project so I don't feel like a total freak.
I've been told repeatedly that isocracy has never worked, but I believe it can in an organized "intentional community"
so I'm willing to pursue a pilot study and see if people can operate that way or not, accommodating differences by consensus.]

Nothing ventured.

Yes, we can chat offline.

 

[LittleNipper]

The Simple reality is that Man is a created being and a creative being. Without God, there is no logical reason for man to exist and the older a person becomes, the faster nothing happens and the realization is nothing will happen. Life is a waste. And sick a person or one with medical problems is simply taking up space. But with God, everyone has a reason to exist --- even with imperfections. We are all an illustration of one kind or another, and or an encouragement to others.

 

[numan]

A friend gave me the term "isocracy," but I think
what I believe about equal responsibility is "isonomy."

In ancient Greece, the word "democracy" was rarely used except in a pejorative sense.

The ancient Athenians usually called their system isonomia, "equality under the law." "Democracy" was associated with "mob rule" that led to the weakness and collapse of city states. Later, democracy was associated with the Terror of the French Revolution, and, in the 19th century, the United States did nothing to remove its tarnish. Most of the world considered the genocide of the Native People, the Mistreatment of Blacks, and the American Civil War to be the result of the disorderly "democratical" governance of the USA. They could point to the very different situation in Canada, which also had self-government, but avoided the Three Great Sins of the USA.

I disapprove of the Pledge on political and moral grounds, but I also have a personal grudge against it, too. When I was in the third grade in elementary school, I got to class a trifle late, and it had already started the Pledge. I quickly put my coat on a hanger, and then joined in. Afterward, the teacher criticized me in front of everyone; according to her, I should not have put my coat on the hanger, but immediately stood to attention and started reciting. Even my childish mind found this attitude to be really silly, and passing years increased my contempt for such idolatrous ways of thinking.

It is comforting, I think, that there is no such thing as a "Jealous God" -- I imagine that, otherwise, a lot of Christians would be in deep trouble for their violations of the First Commandment.
.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The Simple reality is that Man is a created being and a creative being. Without God, there is no logical reason for man to exist and the older a person becomes, the faster nothing happens and the realization is nothing will happen. Life is a waste. And sick a person or one with medical problems is simply taking up space. But with God, everyone has a reason to exist --- even with imperfections. We are all an illustration of one kind or another, and or an encouragement to others.

Astounding that anyone could be so completely and utterly wrong!

 

[BreezeWood]

'
Goodness, I am an atheist ...

a little surprised you have no doubt ...

I am not troubled by doubts on that score. I am not an agnostic. I am a pure, convinced atheist.

I would not deny that a profoundly meaningful Spiritual Reality permeates existence. I strongly think, and even feel, that it does. But whatever it is, it is not a god.

........

I am quite willing that there be a word to indicate Spiritual Reality -- but not the word "god".
.

... that there be a word to indicate Spiritual Reality

I'm lost why a word would be needed -


is that a reachable state for each individual that is the key to an Everlasting existence - the OuterWorld of the Everlasting ?

personally I might be content as an engineer specialist for DNA modifications, however it may be mankind is more relegated to the more mundane tasks as Volcano cleaners ....

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi BW:
1. Even if Jesus were chosen and made himself to do these things by free will and works,
for God's will to mean supreme, then this was already set up to happen. Same with everything you and I do; we cannot chose to do things we are not set up to do. I cannot suddenly become a butterfly or change into an elephant.
So I see it as both human free will and God's divine will, but
the free will operates within God's will. Do you agree? so on some level
Jesus was already divinely designed to live on earth and do and teach the things he did.

2. i see no contradiction between all pepole coming to God through jesus
and all people taking our own paths. it is both things. we choose by free will
within god's will. all our souls are unique, so all our relations with God are unique,
and all our paths are different. yet these are joined as one in Christ Jesus.
we have both unity in Christ and also diversity that includes all our paths. does this make more sense, that you and i do not disagree?

emilynghiem: If you don't believe in Jesus divinity I would still work with you as a secular gentile
under natural laws, where the focus is more on social responsibility for one's actions
and building peace and justice that way. I still believe the divine laws of justice govern
and fulfill those laws, if you are okay with this idea that Jesus is that unifying spirit of equal justice for all humanity. Are you okay with that interpretation of Jesus bringing salvation and peace to all?

If you don't believe in Jesus divinity ...

as stated we believe Jesus accomplished Remission by conquering evil during his life and was chosen by God to give guidance on "His" accomplishment. - by the quote "why have you forsaken me" indicates he took his role a little to seriously - a gesture from God to Jesus for his own sake, to bad Christians fail to recognize the contrast.

Jesus brought salvation and peace to himself - providing the path for others to follow is our belief were the Instructions from God to Jesus.

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

The Edenist do not believe Jesus said - "No one comes to the Father except through me." - but said: 'follow the same path for yourself to find God' or of that effect - what is written in the Bible could not be further from the truth.

Do you believe in transformation by receiving the spirit of truth and justice, not only in our heart and minds, but also in our relationships in order to incarnate/manifest in the world?

this is Remission that is a Commandment, during ones lifetime - or perish.




Armageddon- the triumph of evil
Amageddon - the triumph of good

as stated the story of Noah is the contrast of the two - the bible as far as we know does not mention the outcome of the triumph of Good, the reason for giving Mankind a second chance - but foretells only Armageddon.

with Amageddon - the Garden of Eden and the Everlasting will return to Earth.

Irish Ram: The Edenist belief contradicts what Christ preached.
Jesus never said, "we'll split the cost...".
Part Christ/ part self is the opposite of what He said:

"And the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

not really sure what you are saying above about 1/2 -

God created a "Species" - it is the species that is expelled - Remittance is accomplished by each individual but we must work for all to accomplish the feat to save the species - Jesus found the path but each individual has to travel it themselves.

And Breeze, The practice of doing what you said to do, "discarding what is forbidden to find the true path is the point of studying the book, at ones peril." is false doctrine.

what assurance do you have what you "read" is what was said, etc. - the Truth speaks for itself and is meant to be found - history tells us of the Bibles failings - the answerer lies in finding why. we read by sight, the Garden - and are willing to share our discoveries - the same as God instructed Jesus.

i see what you mean that people are teaching armageddon as evil destroying.
when the true msg should be good conquering evil.
however, though i agree with you more people are teaching jesus as bringing division judgemnt punishment and even war as the post-millenial dispensationalists teach,
there are Christian believers who teach the revelations and end times as bringing
peace and universal salvation closer to the paradise you believe in too. i agree with you.
yet i see and teach this using the same Bible you say is teaching it as war where evil wins

i disagree. i find ppl interpret the bible your way when we believe in peace; and ppl interpret the Bible or even Islam the warlike way when they don't forgive but project their blame onto others so they teach war. it is coming from the person not from the Bible.

The same Bible can teach peace and paradise as you and i both believe.
i'm glad we believe in peace on earth as the msg. i get this from the Bible
and don't have to change how it is written to teach peace and paradise.

BW the Jehovah's witness also teach the bible means paradise on earth is heaven.
and the authors of Saving Paradise also teach this is the msg of christianity taught by the early church. I agree that your interpretation is the right one. Jesus said he came not to judge the world but to save it. so that is in the bible and means peace on earth in the end.

thanks BW there are denominations who teach peace and paradise on earth
without arguing about jesus being divine orhuman (the jehovah's witness also treat jesus as more human than divine) and without changing the bible to add things taken out.
you can teach the same msg using the existing bible so you can avoid confusing ppl.

 

[emilynghiem]

The Simple reality is that Man is a created being and a creative being. Without God, there is no logical reason for man to exist and the older a person becomes, the faster nothing happens and the realization is nothing will happen. Life is a waste. And sick a person or one with medical problems is simply taking up space. But with God, everyone has a reason to exist --- even with imperfections. We are all an illustration of one kind or another, and or an encouragement to others.

Given every person living has a divine purpose,
how does each person describe that purpose or views of life?
shouldn't each person's explanation point to the same God and creation?

for example, one of my atheist friends teaches abundance of free grace and encourages everyone he knows to have equal compassion for all people in humanity. he does this without personifying God as Christians do. he believes and lives by restorative justice by forgiveness and rational corrections based on truth and fairness to all people, without personifying justice as jesus or peace and comfort as the holy spirit as christians do.

isn't god's truth and justice the same no matter what names we call it by?
isn't unconditional love by any other name still the same as what we mean by god's love

you are right, if we all need god in order to have existence or purpose
then on some level all people even atheists have knowledge or connection with god
the nontheists are just seeing or saying it in other words without as much symbolic personification because they see the world objectively
using empirical evidence explanations and experience. god must have made them that way for a divine purpose if god is in charge and has his will ordering everything and everyone

 

[emilynghiem]

A friend gave me the term "isocracy," but I think
what I believe about equal responsibility is "isonomy."

In ancient Greece, the word "democracy" was rarely used except in a pejorative sense.

The ancient Athenians usually called their system isonomia, "equality under the law." "Democracy" was associated with "mob rule" that led to the weakness and collapse of city states. Later, democracy was associated with the Terror of the French Revolution, and, in the 19th century, the United States did nothing to remove its tarnish. Most of the world considered the genocide of the Native People, the Mistreatment of Blacks, and the American Civil War to be the result of the disorderly "democratical" governance of the USA. They could point to the very different situation in Canada, which also had self-government, but avoided the Three Great Sins of the USA.

I disapprove of the Pledge on political and moral grounds, but I also have a personal grudge against it, too. When I was in the third grade in elementary school, I got to class a trifle late, and it had already started the Pledge. I quickly put my coat on a hanger, and then joined in. Afterward, the teacher criticized me in front of everyone; according to her, I should not have put my coat on the hanger, but immediately stood to attention and started reciting. Even my childish mind found this attitude to be really silly, and passing years increased my contempt for such idolatrous ways of thinking.

It is comforting, I think, that there is no such thing as a "Jealous God" -- I imagine that, otherwise, a lot of Christians would be in deep trouble for their violations of the First Commandment.
.

Dear Numan thanks for more interesting and informative background. While I believe in Christ as other Christians, I was brought up gentile, will always think in secular terms as my native language, and will always fit in better with people like you and DT who explain things in secular terms I can follow. I certainly would like both of you to be on the team as I ask more people to work with us towards a consensus on God. your openness and willing to work with diversity even where you honestly disagree is refreshing and much needed.
this is what is going to make the process work, we need more like you from all sides!

as for jealous god i have two thoughts on this
a. one group pointed out that jealous shares the same root word as zealous
so the same way a father may favor his family or a husband his wife
god and jesus are protective of their flock or children in a way that is zealous
b. we see this same jealous relationship with govt
no one can put local state law above constitutional law
right now people are stalling on the gun laws because there
are flaws going against the law of the land, so they wont compromise
either fix the flaws or the good parts of the reform won't pass either
so there are times where we must recognize the higher authority first
and then we can have all the secondary requirements under that umbrella

with the teacher who went to extremes to berate you in ways that were minor
the point was to keep the order of the classroom at all costs
to listen to the teacher for sake of authority even if that person is wrong
you can challenge later but not in front of everyone
this happens when society is immature and members are treated as children
or followers; to ensure safety the police or authority issue orders no one can question
we eventually outgrow this phase and set up our own structures not depend on others

1. for when authority figures can't admit they were wrong but have to stick to their
word to keep authority and save face, I call this the aunt polly effect
from huck finn and tom sawyer when the aunt blamed the wrong person
and had to go through with the punishment because she already announced it and couldnt retract
i disagree with this, but it happens in society such as with the death penalty where
the gov rarely reverses a decision especially if the board of pardons paroles does not recommend it
they will not go against each other. t his happens in the party politics also to everyone's risk
2. for when someone rebels in public to make an authority figure look bad by challenging their authority
and then they have to overcompensate to show theyre still in charge
i call this the anna and the king dilemma

in the story, the king explained to anna that he had planned to spare the unjustly convicted couple
to give them mercy, but after she spoke back against him in front of the public he had
no choice but to execute them to show he was in charge so it is her fault they had to die

i disagree with both these things but understand these politics go on
that is why i push for restorative justice not retributive justice where you have to play these power games to stay in charge

with restorative justice and mediation you share voice and influence on the outcome equally with the other parties affected
so I believe in isonomy and then where ppl are equal first, then you can choose to defer autority to other reps second
but never give up power to ppl who don't represent your interests to begin with
where people have unequal power then we have unequal access to justice
i believe we can use the classroom and school model to organize people
by level of development and work toward equality one stage at a time
right now, as long as people are not equally educated to represent themselves
then we have the classroom experiences as you described where the teachers or principals just dictate
from the top down to keep the school in order. China with its billions in population has to use the dictator
model in order to control the masses, until each district or state could be democratized more and still keep the greater order
without threatening it. so that is why they use the anna and the king type of govt, where you cannot make the leaders look bad because
they cannot afford dissension and disorder with that many people in the population to organize and keep in line.

 

[numan]

'
I am not big on respecting "authority figures".

Daily life in small things, and history in large things, show over and over that it is a mistake -- and even a disaster -- to be overly respectful to those who set themselves up as "authorities".

with the teacher who went to extremes to berate you in ways that were minor
the point was to keep the order of the classroom at all costs
to listen to the teacher for sake of authority even if that person is wrong
you can challenge later but not in front of everyone

This seems to have nothing to do with the incident I related. The person who disrupted the classroom was the teacher. None of the students noticed me putting my coat on a hanger in the back of the classroom. It was the teacher who made a big to-do and wasted the time of the class.
I never challenged her at any time, but I certainly lost respect for her.

The incident is entirely trivial, and I haven't thought about it for years -- I was merely reminded of it in regard to the topic of idolatry. My teacher was a flag idolater.

I consider anyone to be an idolater who places more value on a ritual, a dogma or a form of words than they value a human life, human welfare, or even human feelings. They worship something that is dead more than they value something which is living, and I cannot imagine any deity taking the side of such idolaters.

"Christians" who burned people alive over small points of dogma or ritual were very sinful idolaters, I think.

Moslems are often very proud of being free from idolatry, but when they kill or harm other people simply because of a ritual or a form of words, then I am sure they are idolaters, and they, as well as all other idolaters of whatever persuasion, should be informed of that.
.

 

[BreezeWood]

Hi BW:
1. Even if Jesus were chosen and made himself to do these things by free will and works,
for God's will to mean supreme, then this was already set up to happen. Same with everything you and I do; we cannot chose to do things we are not set up to do. I cannot suddenly become a butterfly or change into an elephant.
So I see it as both human free will and God's divine will, but
the free will operates within God's will. Do you agree? so on some level
Jesus was already divinely designed to live on earth and do and teach the things he did.

... then this was already set up to happen ... Jesus was already divinely designed to live on earth and do and teach the things he did.

- - - not a chance, Jesus like everyone else had to have attained the "Spiritual Reality" - Remission that the Creator has said is necessary to exist in the Everlasting - the Religion for why the Bible is written - so no, it was an observation by God of Jesus'es accomplishment that "allowed" him to be chosen.

... but the free will operates within God's will. Do you agree?

- - - absolutely - the Terms of the "Spiritual Reality" are set by God - Satan is dead, there is no place called Hell. There will only be allowed the Triumph of Good or Mankind will Perish. God is the Almighty.



2. i see no contradiction between all pepole coming to God through jesus
and all people taking our own paths. it is both things. we choose by free will
within god's will. all our souls are unique, so all our relations with God are unique,
and all our paths are different. yet these are joined as one in Christ Jesus.
we have both unity in Christ and also diversity that includes all our paths. does this make more sense, that you and i do not disagree?

- - - if you are using the term Christ to mean an individual who accomplished the Commandment of Remission while alive then there would be unity for reasons of the accomplishment - not because of the Christian claim Jesus is the son of God or was God.

* and also the True Religion only allows for man to return to the Garden of Eden - The OuterWorld of the Everlasting - not a return necessarily to God or the place called Heaven.


................


i see what you mean that people are teaching armageddon as evil destroying.
when the true msg should be good conquering evil.
however, though i agree with you more people are teaching jesus as bringing division judgemnt punishment and even war as the post-millenial dispensationalists teach,
there are Christian believers who teach the revelations and end times as bringing
peace and universal salvation closer to the paradise you believe in too. i agree with you.
yet i see and teach this using the same Bible you say is teaching it as war where evil wins

i disagree. i find ppl interpret the bible your way when we believe in peace; and ppl interpret the Bible or even Islam the warlike way when they don't forgive but project their blame onto others so they teach war. it is coming from the person not from the Bible.

The same Bible can teach peace and paradise as you and i both believe.
i'm glad we believe in peace on earth as the msg. i get this from the Bible
and don't have to change how it is written to teach peace and paradise.

BW the Jehovah's witness also teach the bible means paradise on earth is heaven.
and the authors of Saving Paradise also teach this is the msg of christianity taught by the early church. I agree that your interpretation is the right one. Jesus said he came not to judge the world but to save it. so that is in the bible and means peace on earth in the end.

thanks BW there are denominations who teach peace and paradise on earth
without arguing about jesus being divine orhuman (the jehovah's witness also treat jesus as more human than divine) and without changing the bible to add things taken out.
you can teach the same msg using the existing bible so you can avoid confusing ppl.

emilynghiem - the Goal is to accomplish Remission to the Everlasting as Commanded, is the Religion of the True Bible - no mention of Jesus is necessary ... nor is it a finite goal that is not a little different for each individual who so desires to participate. The Triumph of Good is all it will take.

 

[LittleNipper]

Hi BW:
1. Even if Jesus were chosen and made himself to do these things by free will and works,
for God's will to mean supreme, then this was already set up to happen. Same with everything you and I do; we cannot chose to do things we are not set up to do. I cannot suddenly become a butterfly or change into an elephant.
So I see it as both human free will and God's divine will, but
the free will operates within God's will. Do you agree? so on some level
Jesus was already divinely designed to live on earth and do and teach the things he did.

... then this was already set up to happen ... Jesus was already divinely designed to live on earth and do and teach the things he did.

- - - not a chance, Jesus like everyone else had to have attained the "Spiritual Reality" - Remission that the Creator has said is necessary to exist in the Everlasting - the Religion for why the Bible is written - so no, it was an observation by God of Jesus'es accomplishment that "allowed" him to be chosen.

... but the free will operates within God's will. Do you agree?

- - - absolutely - the Terms of the "Spiritual Reality" are set by God - Satan is dead, there is no place called Hell. There will only be allowed the Triumph of Good or Mankind will Perish. God is the Almighty.



2. i see no contradiction between all pepole coming to God through jesus
and all people taking our own paths. it is both things. we choose by free will
within god's will. all our souls are unique, so all our relations with God are unique,
and all our paths are different. yet these are joined as one in Christ Jesus.
we have both unity in Christ and also diversity that includes all our paths. does this make more sense, that you and i do not disagree?

- - - if you are using the term Christ to mean an individual who accomplished the Commandment of Remission while alive then there would be unity for reasons of the accomplishment - not because of the Christian claim Jesus is the son of God or was God.

* and also the True Religion only allows for man to return to the Garden of Eden - The OuterWorld of the Everlasting - not a return necessarily to God or the place called Heaven.


................


i see what you mean that people are teaching armageddon as evil destroying.
when the true msg should be good conquering evil.
however, though i agree with you more people are teaching jesus as bringing division judgemnt punishment and even war as the post-millenial dispensationalists teach,
there are Christian believers who teach the revelations and end times as bringing
peace and universal salvation closer to the paradise you believe in too. i agree with you.
yet i see and teach this using the same Bible you say is teaching it as war where evil wins

i disagree. i find ppl interpret the bible your way when we believe in peace; and ppl interpret the Bible or even Islam the warlike way when they don't forgive but project their blame onto others so they teach war. it is coming from the person not from the Bible.

The same Bible can teach peace and paradise as you and i both believe.
i'm glad we believe in peace on earth as the msg. i get this from the Bible
and don't have to change how it is written to teach peace and paradise.

BW the Jehovah's witness also teach the bible means paradise on earth is heaven.
and the authors of Saving Paradise also teach this is the msg of christianity taught by the early church. I agree that your interpretation is the right one. Jesus said he came not to judge the world but to save it. so that is in the bible and means peace on earth in the end.

thanks BW there are denominations who teach peace and paradise on earth
without arguing about jesus being divine orhuman (the jehovah's witness also treat jesus as more human than divine) and without changing the bible to add things taken out.
you can teach the same msg using the existing bible so you can avoid confusing ppl.

emilynghiem - the Goal is to accomplish Remission to the Everlasting as Commanded, is the Religion of the True Bible - no mention of Jesus is necessary ... nor is it a finite goal that is not a little different for each individual who so desires to participate. The Triumph of Good is all it will take.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

 

[LittleNipper]

The Simple reality is that Man is a created being and a creative being. Without God, there is no logical reason for man to exist and the older a person becomes, the faster nothing happens and the realization is nothing will happen. Life is a waste. And a sick person or one with medical problems is simply taking up space. But with God, everyone has a reason to exist --- even with imperfections. We are all an illustration of one kind or another, and or an encouragement to others.

Astounding that anyone could be so completely and utterly wrong!

Astounding that anyone could call someone else completely and utterly wrong and leave it at that... I mean --- No, I'm not so there.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Originally Posted by LittleNipper

The Simple reality is that Man is a created being and a creative being. Without God, there is no logical reason for man to exist and the older a person becomes, the faster nothing happens and the realization is nothing will happen. Life is a waste. And a sick person or one with medical problems is simply taking up space. But with God, everyone has a reason to exist --- even with imperfections. We are all an illustration of one kind or another, and or an encouragement to others.

^

Revelation 4:11
“You are worthy, our Lord and Our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you have created all things, and by your pleasure they exist ...

Breezy, what's to be done with you child?

- - - not a chance, Jesus like everyone else had to have attained the "Spiritual Reality" - Remission that the Creator has said is necessary to exist in the Everlasting - the Religion for why the Bible is written - so no, it was an observation by God of Jesus'es accomplishment that "allowed" him to be chosen.

Jesus IS the I AM. The same I AM that spoke to Moses. He is GOD, with us, Emanuel.

When you take the fluffy parts you like out of the Bible and then take away from it, and add your own feelings and rules to it, you get obscure, ineffective, feelings and rules, and nothing close to the truth.
It is the EXACT OPENING SATAN LOOKS FOR:

Look at what God told Eve:

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now look at how Eve, adding 5 little words to what God said, caused the downfall of man:

Genesis 3:3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'" ...

I can just see the twinkle in Lucifer's eye. pst, Go ahead, touch it, you won't die, honest. See? Now, go ahead, take a bite, I already proved that other God is a liar......... so, whatcha got to lose?


Put the Garden back where it belongs, and stop picking your favorite jellybeans out of the bag and telling everybody how good they taste. pst, Go ahead, taste one....

 

[The Irish Ram]

Originally Posted by LittleNipper

The Simple reality is that Man is a created being and a creative being. Without God, there is no logical reason for man to exist and the older a person becomes, the faster nothing happens and the realization is nothing will happen. Life is a waste. And a sick person or one with medical problems is simply taking up space. But with God, everyone has a reason to exist --- even with imperfections. We are all an illustration of one kind or another, and or an encouragement to others.

^

Revelation 4:11
“You are worthy, our Lord and Our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you have created all things, and by your pleasure they exist ...

Breezy, what's to be done with you child?

- - - not a chance, Jesus like everyone else had to have attained the "Spiritual Reality" - Remission that the Creator has said is necessary to exist in the Everlasting - the Religion for why the Bible is written - so no, it was an observation by God of Jesus'es accomplishment that "allowed" him to be chosen.

Jesus IS the I AM. The same I AM that spoke to Moses. He is GOD, with us, Emanuel. God chose Himself to redeem His children.

When you take the fluffy parts you like out of the Bible and then take away from it, and add your own feelings and rules to it, you get obscure, ineffective, feelings and rules, and a lack of grace, favor, merit, and you are left with nothing close to the truth.
It is the EXACT OPENING SATAN LOOKS FOR:

Look at what God told Eve:

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now look at how Eve, adding 5 little words to what God said, caused the downfall of man:

Genesis 3:3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'" ...

I can just see the twinkle in Lucifer's eye. pst, Go ahead, touch it, you won't die, honest. See? Now, go ahead, taste one, I've already proven that that other God lied to you......... so, whatcha got to lose?


Put the Garden back where it belongs, and stop picking your favorite jellybeans out of the bag and telling everybody how good they taste. pst, Go ahead, taste one....

 

[BreezeWood]

I do not harbinger any ill will to Eve -

as stated when the Judea / Christian Bible - chose the Forbidden Fruit: "and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth". - I could read no further.


I think it was just time to send Mankind into the wilderness and fend for itself - the outcome will be either the triumph of Good or Evil in the end, God and the Everlasting awaits the former if it can be accomplished.

* and or an individual who themselves attain the purity of "Spiritual Reality" may individually be readmitted to the "OuterWorld of the Everlasting" and am indeed working to accomplish the Feat - see you there Irish Ram.

 

[The Irish Ram]

But the Bible didn't chose. Eve did. And the order you place things in is all wrong. God made everything for His children before His children were created. Then He gave Adam authority over all He created. Adam lost his position of authority, and Satan usurped it, temporarily when Adam made the decision to leave Eden with Eve.
Man was NEVER sent out to fend for themselves. God never forsook them. God clothed them and was with them and their children and their children's children......
And in His own time, He will restore us to the garden, and remove evil from us. His job, His works. We aren't qualified.

The God of the Bible made it a theme in His book, for us to do the opposite of what you promote, which is works. God says, "you rest and I will fight your battles for you, because you can't even see your enemy, but I can, and I know just what to do to defeat him. Leave it to me".
Leaving it to Him and trusting Him to get the job done is our only job.

Yourself will let you down every time. But Jesus has us covered and has already provided us with admission to the Heaven, ( your outer world of the everlasting )

But more importantly, Christ triumphed over evil so that we wouldn't have to. We can live free of having to fend off sin by ourselves, and falling short, because of grace. Something you totally lack when you try to reach the plateau of righteousness on your own.

Stop fighting to be good enough. You already are. Jesus saw to it. Accept that simple truth and your everlasting reservation is confirmed.

Matthew 11:28-30
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

Rest sweetie, Jesus already did your work for you.