Believing In A God Is Evil

[S.J.]

I understand your evolution 'theory'. It is only a theory.

You and the other atheist's haven't answered my question on what kick started the universe.

Does this mean I'm correct in assuming a miracle happened and that your big bang theory is just another creation theology?

It would seem so.

*****SMILE*****

The God hypothesis isn't even a theory. Certainly not a scientific one. It's complete bullshit.

Now that would depend on what a person believes God is all about now wouldn't it?

*****CHUCKLE*****

No because at the core of the argument or debate is that something must have created all this. Athiest disagree because we lack evidence. Theist believe because they can't imagine any other way. That's it.

Everything else is bullshit. Heaven, hell, angels, devils and gods. All bullshit.

You believe the unbelievable without sufficient evidence and that I find unbelievable.

Sounds like you're describing one of your own. Where's your proof?

Of what? Something that isn't there?

We're right back to where we were before moses supposedly talked to God. Before he came down with that lie some people believed. Moses' encounter just confirmed their belief. Soon they had a thick book to read full of fascinating stuff.

Of evolution. Yes, something that isn't there, moron. You're stoned again, aren't you?

 

[sealybobo]

Get a load of this. This person seems to think to refute my point that finding a spelling mistake is all it takes and then they go on to insert a non word "scientific-y". I presented proof. Proof that you creationist retards can't even read, watch or acknowledge. Until anything I posted is addressed were done. The whole lot of you are the biggest cowards going. You clutch on to beliefs that require zero evidence (which is why it is called faith) and in turn demand proof or evidence of evolutuion which there are mountains of it. When it is actually presented in written form like is post # 25 or in the form of a video in posts # 29 & 90, not one person even attempts to read or watch this information, let alone refute or dispute it. None of you people are even looking for the truth. You cling on to your beliefs and will cry fowl at every corner without even reading, watching or comprehending anything that is presented to you. Creationists are the most dishonest people and they know it.

Now I know you could only come back with a spelling error and a strawman Koshergirl, I wouldn't expect anything more out of you, I think you would give us all heart attacks if you actually addressed the issues that were presented. You claimed "you do realize that Christians say the same thing when asked for proof?" but give no examples. You need to clarify what it is you are talking about. I pointed out that SJ clearly does not understand how evolution works by his example of questions. He says he has heard or read it all before but this is not true because his line of questioning has nothing to do with what evolution claims. In evolution a species does not give birth to another species. This is explained in full detail in both videos but creationists are unwilling to put themselves in a position where they can actually learn something. It's better to cry foul at something you haven't read or watched than to actually refute actual information.

I understand your evolution 'theory'. It is only a theory.

You and the other atheist's haven't answered my question on what kick started the universe.

Does this mean I'm correct in assuming a miracle happened and that your big bang theory is just another creation theology?

It would seem so.

*****SMILE*****

The God hypothesis isn't even a theory. Certainly not a scientific one. It's complete bullshit.

Now that would depend on what a person believes God is all about now wouldn't it?

*****CHUCKLE*****

No because at the core of the argument or debate is that something must have created all this. Athiest disagree because we lack evidence. Theist believe because they can't imagine any other way. That's it.

Everything else is bullshit. Heaven, hell, angels, devils and gods. All bullshit.

You believe the unbelievable without sufficient evidence and that I find unbelievable.

I have all the proof I need that God exists.

You on the other hand simply have another creation theology provided by your alter of scientific knowledge.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Huggy bitch slapped you son.

 

[sealybobo]

The God hypothesis isn't even a theory. Certainly not a scientific one. It's complete bullshit.

Now that would depend on what a person believes God is all about now wouldn't it?

*****CHUCKLE*****

No because at the core of the argument or debate is that something must have created all this. Athiest disagree because we lack evidence. Theist believe because they can't imagine any other way. That's it.

Everything else is bullshit. Heaven, hell, angels, devils and gods. All bullshit.

You believe the unbelievable without sufficient evidence and that I find unbelievable.

Sounds like you're describing one of your own. Where's your proof?

Of what? Something that isn't there?

We're right back to where we were before moses supposedly talked to God. Before he came down with that lie some people believed. Moses' encounter just confirmed their belief. Soon they had a thick book to read full of fascinating stuff.

Of evolution. Yes, something that isn't there, moron. You're stoned again, aren't you?

So God planted a mosquito seed then a tardigrade seed and a separate polar bear black bear and grizzly and all the different birds? Tigers lions all the different fish rodents bugs spiders dinosaurs trilobites crab snakes frogs. That's your theory you'll put against a scientific theory? The highest honor an idea can achieve.

 

[emilynghiem]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

Hi HUGGY
what if we don't agree on defining faith in God to be lying?

What if faith in God means faith in love to be a stronger force than fear.
Is that evil?

What if faith in God means faith in life to be more worth living for than worrying about fear of death.
Is that evil?

What if faith in God means faith in truth, wisdom and knowledge to overcome ignorance and fear of the unknown.
Is that evil?

What if faith in God means faith in Good Will to motivate people on a more sustainable
lasting basis than ill will pushes people to commit evil.

What is evil about having faith that Good is stronger than evil?

isn't evil teaching that evil is the better choice over good?

Which way is it, HUGGY???

 

[HUGGY]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

My brother really believes. But then isn't he lying to himself?

Forgive them for they know not what they do.

I can't believe they believed moses when he said he talked to God. If they'd swallow that the rest is easy.

It's OK to think some creator must have created all this. I disagree but I get it. But don't tell me this very elaborate bs story that should be called out 4 words in. In the beginning God. Excuse me who?

Moses, Jesus and Mohammed were all con artists. They played on the fears of some incredibly superstitious and ignorant people. We have to keep in mind that average people worshiped idols and a huge assortment of "gods" that these people believed had an active role in their lives and future.

If they wanted a child they would pray to a god of fertility and so on. When by natural causes there was a drought and crops failed their leaders prayed to gods that were supposed to make it rain..and sometimes these morons would murder some unlucky people as human sacrifice. Sacrificing everyday animals was common in an attempt to satisfy their gods.

So when Moses came along he wasn't preaching to a people that were playing with a full deck.

NOW we have many in our population almost as gullible as the goat herders of those ancient times. In fact they live their lives using the ridiculous perceptions of those old idiots as their guide. Astonishing!

 

[HUGGY]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

Hi HUGGY

what if we don't agree on defining faith in God to be lying?

What if faith in God means faith in love to be a stronger force than fear.
Is that evil?

What if faith in God means faith in life to be more worth living for than worrying about fear of death.
Is that evil?

What if faith in God means faith in truth, wisdom and knowledge to overcome ignorance and fear of the unknown.
Is that evil?

What if faith in God means faith in Good Will to motivate people on a more sustainable
lasting basis than ill will pushes people to commit evil.

What is evil about having faith that Good is stronger than evil?

isn't evil teaching that evil is the better choice over good?

Which way is it, HUGGY???

Hey Girl!

I agree with everything you said. Very much so. What I don't understand is why you feel the need to label these tenants as "god". Why can't you stand up on your own and take credit for the philosophy you have chosen to live by? You already have a daddy. Why do you feel you need to invent one?

It isn't my place to tell someone as intelligent you how to think. All I can do with respect is ask you to consider owning your wonderful ideas and enjoy the mind and the life that has come to these realizations.

 

[emilynghiem]

This may come as a surprise to you but you're not the first person to try to sell this shit. I've read that crap before, many times, and I don't intend to invest any more time in reading the same old shit again. No one could prove anything then and no one can prove anything now, including you. You give the same answers everyone else gives who try to sell that theory as I stated earlier in this thread. You fail to provide proof so you resort to rhetorical comments like "You fail to recognize the basic concept of evolution". That's the kind of "proof" you guys give. Sorry, but that doesn't cut it. When I read those claims of proof, I see a lot of speculation but the "proof" is always something like "Therefore, it appears that....." Proof would be showing documentation of a transition from one species to another, not two sets of bones that are similar. You can't do that, and we've seen NO examples of a transformation since science has been claiming it happens.
The bottom line here is that you believe strongly in your theory and you are willing to put your faith in it based on someone's speculation. That's fine if you want to believe it but until you have proof, REAL proof, you're just another atheist trying to convince others to be as gullible as you.

And just how long have the Jews and the Jesus freaks been selling the god nonsense? 3000 years?

I don't know, but I'm not trying to sell you anything, so don't try to sell me anything. See how that works?

You...I believe it was you...asked for some proof about evolution. I maintain that if evolution is true that most if not all of the god references in the bibles go bye bye.

There are a handful of folks that believe that evolution can be true independent of whether a god exists or not. From what I can tell you are not among that group. You seem to believe that god made man in his image of course independent of all other life on this planet.

As far as "selling" you anything I am not sure what you mean. I am "selling" the idea that telling and passing on lies is wrong and therefor evil IMHO.

Since there is no factual supporting evidence that god exists I maintain that god as understood by most organized religion is a bald faced lie.

It is a lie to suggest that believing in a god causes no one harm.. That is clearly a lie as shown by the clerk that won't sign marriage licences for the homos. Now I suppose you will run with THAT saying I am a homo lover..and I quote the homos or some nonsense. Fact is that the homos ARE human beings and the clerk is causing them harm. At least she was until she got her dumb religious ass arrested.

You asked for proof about the evolution and against my common sensibilities I did a quick search and provided some pretty good, easy to digest 411.

AND did you offer any factual evidence that god exists? No..you just started crying about my thumbnail offering.

I'm beginning to think you are not capable of playing a straight game. You just WANT there to be a god and that's that. What YOU are selling is your own personal need that there be a god. I have no such need so I guess it's NO SALE.

While you only appear to be here to shout how you don't believe in a God at all so you can criticize the beliefs of others. While in turn when other issues happen people like you deny that you are targeting those same beliefs with progressive issues. Then you wonder why the liberals support for any specific candidate is being shredded at the seams? It's because your far left beliefs are dissuading the moderates from supporting them.

*****SMILE*****

You have been on this MB for about 5 minutes and you just show up and "know my beliefs"?

In this vague and hate filled post it is you that has shown YOUR agenda which has NOTHING to do with me.

Here is a heads up for you Sparky. I have never voted democrat in the 66 years I've been on this earth.

As a typical RWer you ASSUME you know everything and actually you only know what you are told to know by people(The Kochs) that don't give a rat's ass about you. If you had done any research on MY posts you would know that I have never praised Hillary or Obama. I have defended the OFFICE of the presidency as I believe every American should. Disrespect for the highest office on the planet is ignorant as it only makes us as Americans appear that we don't want to stand up for our country in the eyes of others, the terrorist types, that gain boldness believing that we are soft and stupid.

I am an old school republican as far as political leanings. Eisenhower was the last republican president that wasn't a glorified used car salesman or an actor. I am embarrassed to admit that I voted for Bush's daddy and young George and look where that got us. Herbert Walker invaded Iraq under false premise but at least he had the sense to pull out before he had destroyed the whole country. Dumb ass "W" driven by the most evil Americans ever close to the oval office in Cheney and Rove damn near bankrupted the country and invaded two countries based on lies. So I will NEVER ..I repeat NEVER vote for a republican president again. That doesn't mean I lean left. It means that republicans have become vile and crazy demigods with stupid religious agendas and will take our country to war with hardly a scrap of an honest reason.

But you don't want to hear a voice of reason do you. You have already made up your mind ..or better put ..someone is using you and has made up your mind for you. You think you know who is a liberal and based on this non existent proof go off running at the mouth about how this person or that person is a "lefty" or a "liberal". You REALLY don't have a clue what you are talking about. Lucky you that the internet is a safe place to hide. Where I live you would have swallowed most of your teeth by now because that's what happens to a-holes that tell lies on others.

Have a good day.

Hi HUGGY What about
God meaning the Forces of Life.
Do we really need to prove that "Life" exists, or can we just agree what we are talking about as real?

God meaning the Forces or laws of NATURE
Do we really need to prove that Nature exists, or can we just agree we are talking about something real?

God meaning collective truth or energy/matter in the UNIVERSE
Do we need to prove that the Universe exists, or can assume or agree that we
mean the same thing when we REFER to the UNIVERSE

Do you get my point?

isn't the issue really that
* we don't agree that these terms can refer to the same source of life
or
* we don't agree on how the RULES of Nature, Life or the Universe work
or
* we don't agree if we can reconcile on common truths GIVEN the differences we have

Whatever we call God/Life/Nature/Universal laws, this thing we call the default reality
is what it is. What we don't agree on is (1) which terms are better to use: secular or religious,
left or right approaches, focus on individual or collective (2) what is the nature of the process
or systems of life and humanity, are they geared toward good or destruction (3) and whether
or not people and groups CAN work out issues given these differences, which affects whether
we TRY to resolve issues or we "give up" and resort to bullying by exclusion or coercion to FORCE our way.

=====================

Some people are teaching that Good overcomes evil,
that it is better to make peace and include all people in a universal good will and higher goals for humanity,
and that having FAITH we can achieve this allows us to achieve it.

Others are teaching NO you cannot have any of these people teaching religions, because these are "wrong and cannot be corrected" (or are too much trouble to correct and need to be tossed out).
NO these CANNOT be at peace, and we need to change "that other group" to solve the problem
"and since that group WON'T change then the alternative is to force them and fight them down."

When all groups project blame "at the other one" then there is nothing but conflict,
competition and fighting to force the OTHER person/group to change.
This causes endless division, conflict, war, abuse and cycles of oppression and destruction.

Isn't THAT the problem.
It's not a matter if you believe in a personified God or not.
What matter is if you believe the NATURE of the world and of humanity
is headed for good, or is bounded for self-destruction that cannot be corrected.

If you have FAITH that the path in life is toward GOOD, then you would seek to establish this GOOD.
If you don't have faith that people can reconcile and anything good can come
of these differences and conflicts, HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO ACHIEVE ANYTHING GOOD.

Can you see THAT is the issue of faith.
Not do you believe in a personified God,
but WHAT do you believe is the point, nature and purpose
of life and the workings in the universe, including humanity?

These beliefs if life is good or not,
do NOT require believing in a personified God.
That is NOT the point.

The point is what do we believe about life
and how does that affect how we treat each other
and act in this world.

 

[HUGGY]

And just how long have the Jews and the Jesus freaks been selling the god nonsense? 3000 years?

I don't know, but I'm not trying to sell you anything, so don't try to sell me anything. See how that works?

You...I believe it was you...asked for some proof about evolution. I maintain that if evolution is true that most if not all of the god references in the bibles go bye bye.

There are a handful of folks that believe that evolution can be true independent of whether a god exists or not. From what I can tell you are not among that group. You seem to believe that god made man in his image of course independent of all other life on this planet.

As far as "selling" you anything I am not sure what you mean. I am "selling" the idea that telling and passing on lies is wrong and therefor evil IMHO.

Since there is no factual supporting evidence that god exists I maintain that god as understood by most organized religion is a bald faced lie.

It is a lie to suggest that believing in a god causes no one harm.. That is clearly a lie as shown by the clerk that won't sign marriage licences for the homos. Now I suppose you will run with THAT saying I am a homo lover..and I quote the homos or some nonsense. Fact is that the homos ARE human beings and the clerk is causing them harm. At least she was until she got her dumb religious ass arrested.

You asked for proof about the evolution and against my common sensibilities I did a quick search and provided some pretty good, easy to digest 411.

AND did you offer any factual evidence that god exists? No..you just started crying about my thumbnail offering.

I'm beginning to think you are not capable of playing a straight game. You just WANT there to be a god and that's that. What YOU are selling is your own personal need that there be a god. I have no such need so I guess it's NO SALE.

While you only appear to be here to shout how you don't believe in a God at all so you can criticize the beliefs of others. While in turn when other issues happen people like you deny that you are targeting those same beliefs with progressive issues. Then you wonder why the liberals support for any specific candidate is being shredded at the seams? It's because your far left beliefs are dissuading the moderates from supporting them.

*****SMILE*****

You have been on this MB for about 5 minutes and you just show up and "know my beliefs"?

In this vague and hate filled post it is you that has shown YOUR agenda which has NOTHING to do with me.

Here is a heads up for you Sparky. I have never voted democrat in the 66 years I've been on this earth.

As a typical RWer you ASSUME you know everything and actually you only know what you are told to know by people(The Kochs) that don't give a rat's ass about you. If you had done any research on MY posts you would know that I have never praised Hillary or Obama. I have defended the OFFICE of the presidency as I believe every American should. Disrespect for the highest office on the planet is ignorant as it only makes us as Americans appear that we don't want to stand up for our country in the eyes of others, the terrorist types, that gain boldness believing that we are soft and stupid.

I am an old school republican as far as political leanings. Eisenhower was the last republican president that wasn't a glorified used car salesman or an actor. I am embarrassed to admit that I voted for Bush's daddy and young George and look where that got us. Herbert Walker invaded Iraq under false premise but at least he had the sense to pull out before he had destroyed the whole country. Dumb ass "W" driven by the most evil Americans ever close to the oval office in Cheney and Rove damn near bankrupted the country and invaded two countries based on lies. So I will NEVER ..I repeat NEVER vote for a republican president again. That doesn't mean I lean left. It means that republicans have become vile and crazy demigods with stupid religious agendas and will take our country to war with hardly a scrap of an honest reason.

But you don't want to hear a voice of reason do you. You have already made up your mind ..or better put ..someone is using you and has made up your mind for you. You think you know who is a liberal and based on this non existent proof go off running at the mouth about how this person or that person is a "lefty" or a "liberal". You REALLY don't have a clue what you are talking about. Lucky you that the internet is a safe place to hide. Where I live you would have swallowed most of your teeth by now because that's what happens to a-holes that tell lies on others.

Have a good day.

Hi HUGGY What about
God meaning the Forces of Life.
Do we really need to prove that "Life" exists, or can we just agree what we are talking about as real?

God meaning the Forces or laws of NATURE
Do we really need to prove that Nature exists, or can we just agree we are talking about something real?

God meaning collective truth or energy/matter in the UNIVERSE
Do we need to prove that the Universe exists, or can assume or agree that we
mean the same thing when we REFER to the UNIVERSE

Do you get my point?

isn't the issue really that
* we don't agree that these terms can refer to the same source of life
or
* we don't agree on how the RULES of Nature, Life or the Universe work
or
* we don't agree if we can reconcile on common truths GIVEN the differences we have

Whatever we call God/Life/Nature/Universal laws, this thing we call the default reality
is what it is. What we don't agree on is (1) which terms are better to use: secular or religious,
left or right approaches, focus on individual or collective (2) what is the nature of the process
or systems of life and humanity, are they geared toward good or destruction (3) and whether
or not people and groups CAN work out issues given these differences, which affects whether
we TRY to resolve issues or we "give up" and resort to bullying by exclusion or coercion to FORCE our way.

=====================

Some people are teaching that Good overcomes evil,
that it is better to make peace and include all people in a universal good will and higher goals for humanity,
and that having FAITH we can achieve this allows us to achieve it.

Others are teaching NO you cannot have any of these people teaching religions, because these are "wrong and cannot be corrected" (or are too much trouble to correct and need to be tossed out).
NO these CANNOT be at peace, and we need to change "that other group" to solve the problem
"and since that group WON'T change then the alternative is to force them and fight them down."

When all groups project blame "at the other one" then there is nothing but conflict,
competition and fighting to force the OTHER person/group to change.
This causes endless division, conflict, war, abuse and cycles of oppression and destruction.

Isn't THAT the problem.
It's not a matter if you believe in a personified God or not.
What matter is if you believe the NATURE of the world and of humanity
is headed for good, or is bounded for self-destruction that cannot be corrected.

If you have FAITH that the path in life is toward GOOD, then you would seek to establish this GOOD.
If you don't have faith that people can reconcile and anything good can come
of these differences and conflicts, HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO ACHIEVE ANYTHING GOOD.

Can you see THAT is the issue of faith.
Not do you believe in a personified God,
but WHAT do you believe is the point, nature and purpose
of life and the workings in the universe, including humanity?

These beliefs if life is good or not,
do NOT require believing in a personified God.
That is NOT the point.

The point is what do we believe about life
and how does that affect how we treat each other
and act in this world.

I have no problems with WHAT you state as your personal guidelines of living.

I only find it unnecessary that you feel it important to label these feelings and directives as "god".

 

[emilynghiem]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

My brother really believes. But then isn't he lying to himself?

Forgive them for they know not what they do.

I can't believe they believed moses when he said he talked to God. If they'd swallow that the rest is easy.

It's OK to think some creator must have created all this. I disagree but I get it. But don't tell me this very elaborate bs story that should be called out 4 words in. In the beginning God. Excuse me who?

Moses, Jesus and Mohammed were all con artists. They played on the fears of some incredibly superstitious and ignorant people. We have to keep in mind that average people worshiped idols and a huge assortment of "gods" that these people believed had an active role in their lives and future.

If they wanted a child they would pray to a god of fertility and so on. When by natural causes there was a drought and crops failed their leaders prayed to gods that were supposed to make it rain..and sometimes these morons would murder some unlucky people as human sacrifice. Sacrificing everyday animals was common in an attempt to satisfy their gods.

So when Moses came along he wasn't preaching to a people that were playing with a full deck.

NOW we have many in our population almost as gullible as the goat herders of those ancient times. In fact they live their lives using the ridiculous perceptions of those old idiots as their guide. Astonishing!

Dear HUGGY
From my experience,
people who see the truth in life, interpret truth in the Bible, in what Jesus and Moses gave as the laws, etc.
people who see the problems in life, focus on problems in the Bible, in what Jesus and Moses said or did, etc.

it's the same Bible the same laws and process expressed therein
about the path of humanity in reaching mature stages of peace and justice.

What is different, which you point out, is people's perceptions and biases
they read into these things.

Since both sets of people are reading the same Bible,
then the difference in Interpretation is coming from the PERSON.

You have the right (and responsibility) for your own interpretation
which reflects on YOU.

Likewise, someone else who sees truth and goodness as the message in the Bible,
that perception reflects on THEM.

it's the same Bible, so any differences can be traced back to YOU
and why YOU have the biases you do (that other people do not).

You cannot blame your perception on Jesus, Moses or the Bible
when there are PLENTY of people who read the exact same things
you do, and yet get a positive message out of it to help all humanity.

 

[emilynghiem]

I don't know, but I'm not trying to sell you anything, so don't try to sell me anything. See how that works?

You...I believe it was you...asked for some proof about evolution. I maintain that if evolution is true that most if not all of the god references in the bibles go bye bye.

There are a handful of folks that believe that evolution can be true independent of whether a god exists or not. From what I can tell you are not among that group. You seem to believe that god made man in his image of course independent of all other life on this planet.

As far as "selling" you anything I am not sure what you mean. I am "selling" the idea that telling and passing on lies is wrong and therefor evil IMHO.

Since there is no factual supporting evidence that god exists I maintain that god as understood by most organized religion is a bald faced lie.

It is a lie to suggest that believing in a god causes no one harm.. That is clearly a lie as shown by the clerk that won't sign marriage licences for the homos. Now I suppose you will run with THAT saying I am a homo lover..and I quote the homos or some nonsense. Fact is that the homos ARE human beings and the clerk is causing them harm. At least she was until she got her dumb religious ass arrested.

You asked for proof about the evolution and against my common sensibilities I did a quick search and provided some pretty good, easy to digest 411.

AND did you offer any factual evidence that god exists? No..you just started crying about my thumbnail offering.

I'm beginning to think you are not capable of playing a straight game. You just WANT there to be a god and that's that. What YOU are selling is your own personal need that there be a god. I have no such need so I guess it's NO SALE.

While you only appear to be here to shout how you don't believe in a God at all so you can criticize the beliefs of others. While in turn when other issues happen people like you deny that you are targeting those same beliefs with progressive issues. Then you wonder why the liberals support for any specific candidate is being shredded at the seams? It's because your far left beliefs are dissuading the moderates from supporting them.

*****SMILE*****

You have been on this MB for about 5 minutes and you just show up and "know my beliefs"?

In this vague and hate filled post it is you that has shown YOUR agenda which has NOTHING to do with me.

Here is a heads up for you Sparky. I have never voted democrat in the 66 years I've been on this earth.

As a typical RWer you ASSUME you know everything and actually you only know what you are told to know by people(The Kochs) that don't give a rat's ass about you. If you had done any research on MY posts you would know that I have never praised Hillary or Obama. I have defended the OFFICE of the presidency as I believe every American should. Disrespect for the highest office on the planet is ignorant as it only makes us as Americans appear that we don't want to stand up for our country in the eyes of others, the terrorist types, that gain boldness believing that we are soft and stupid.

I am an old school republican as far as political leanings. Eisenhower was the last republican president that wasn't a glorified used car salesman or an actor. I am embarrassed to admit that I voted for Bush's daddy and young George and look where that got us. Herbert Walker invaded Iraq under false premise but at least he had the sense to pull out before he had destroyed the whole country. Dumb ass "W" driven by the most evil Americans ever close to the oval office in Cheney and Rove damn near bankrupted the country and invaded two countries based on lies. So I will NEVER ..I repeat NEVER vote for a republican president again. That doesn't mean I lean left. It means that republicans have become vile and crazy demigods with stupid religious agendas and will take our country to war with hardly a scrap of an honest reason.

But you don't want to hear a voice of reason do you. You have already made up your mind ..or better put ..someone is using you and has made up your mind for you. You think you know who is a liberal and based on this non existent proof go off running at the mouth about how this person or that person is a "lefty" or a "liberal". You REALLY don't have a clue what you are talking about. Lucky you that the internet is a safe place to hide. Where I live you would have swallowed most of your teeth by now because that's what happens to a-holes that tell lies on others.

Have a good day.

Hi HUGGY What about
God meaning the Forces of Life.
Do we really need to prove that "Life" exists, or can we just agree what we are talking about as real?

God meaning the Forces or laws of NATURE
Do we really need to prove that Nature exists, or can we just agree we are talking about something real?

God meaning collective truth or energy/matter in the UNIVERSE
Do we need to prove that the Universe exists, or can assume or agree that we
mean the same thing when we REFER to the UNIVERSE

Do you get my point?

isn't the issue really that
* we don't agree that these terms can refer to the same source of life
or
* we don't agree on how the RULES of Nature, Life or the Universe work
or
* we don't agree if we can reconcile on common truths GIVEN the differences we have

Whatever we call God/Life/Nature/Universal laws, this thing we call the default reality
is what it is. What we don't agree on is (1) which terms are better to use: secular or religious,
left or right approaches, focus on individual or collective (2) what is the nature of the process
or systems of life and humanity, are they geared toward good or destruction (3) and whether
or not people and groups CAN work out issues given these differences, which affects whether
we TRY to resolve issues or we "give up" and resort to bullying by exclusion or coercion to FORCE our way.

=====================

Some people are teaching that Good overcomes evil,
that it is better to make peace and include all people in a universal good will and higher goals for humanity,
and that having FAITH we can achieve this allows us to achieve it.

Others are teaching NO you cannot have any of these people teaching religions, because these are "wrong and cannot be corrected" (or are too much trouble to correct and need to be tossed out).
NO these CANNOT be at peace, and we need to change "that other group" to solve the problem
"and since that group WON'T change then the alternative is to force them and fight them down."

When all groups project blame "at the other one" then there is nothing but conflict,
competition and fighting to force the OTHER person/group to change.
This causes endless division, conflict, war, abuse and cycles of oppression and destruction.

Isn't THAT the problem.
It's not a matter if you believe in a personified God or not.
What matter is if you believe the NATURE of the world and of humanity
is headed for good, or is bounded for self-destruction that cannot be corrected.

If you have FAITH that the path in life is toward GOOD, then you would seek to establish this GOOD.
If you don't have faith that people can reconcile and anything good can come
of these differences and conflicts, HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO ACHIEVE ANYTHING GOOD.

Can you see THAT is the issue of faith.
Not do you believe in a personified God,
but WHAT do you believe is the point, nature and purpose
of life and the workings in the universe, including humanity?

These beliefs if life is good or not,
do NOT require believing in a personified God.
That is NOT the point.

The point is what do we believe about life
and how does that affect how we treat each other
and act in this world.

I have no problems with WHAT you state as your personal guidelines of living.

I only find it unnecessary that you feel it important to label these feelings and directives as "god".

OK and what if someone takes equal exception with you.
That they believe in good things, but don't think it is necessary to
EXCLUDE the people who express things in terms of God.

Don't both groups set each other off if they make this a "required" condition?
And what is wrong with letting the secular people use NONTHEIST terms
and let the believers use theistic terms that are necessary for THEM.

Why can't each group be okay when the other group REQUIRES
either Christian language or purely secular language.

Are you okay with God-language as long as someone agrees
it's NOT "required for you to use" just because they require it for themselves?

Thanks, HUGGY
If we can get past the language hangups
that only leaves us to deal with the other two levels causing world war...

 

[Damaged Eagle]

This may come as a surprise to you but you're not the first person to try to sell this shit. I've read that crap before, many times, and I don't intend to invest any more time in reading the same old shit again. No one could prove anything then and no one can prove anything now, including you. You give the same answers everyone else gives who try to sell that theory as I stated earlier in this thread. You fail to provide proof so you resort to rhetorical comments like "You fail to recognize the basic concept of evolution". That's the kind of "proof" you guys give. Sorry, but that doesn't cut it. When I read those claims of proof, I see a lot of speculation but the "proof" is always something like "Therefore, it appears that....." Proof would be showing documentation of a transition from one species to another, not two sets of bones that are similar. You can't do that, and we've seen NO examples of a transformation since science has been claiming it happens.
The bottom line here is that you believe strongly in your theory and you are willing to put your faith in it based on someone's speculation. That's fine if you want to believe it but until you have proof, REAL proof, you're just another atheist trying to convince others to be as gullible as you.

And just how long have the Jews and the Jesus freaks been selling the god nonsense? 3000 years?

I don't know, but I'm not trying to sell you anything, so don't try to sell me anything. See how that works?

You...I believe it was you...asked for some proof about evolution. I maintain that if evolution is true that most if not all of the god references in the bibles go bye bye.

There are a handful of folks that believe that evolution can be true independent of whether a god exists or not. From what I can tell you are not among that group. You seem to believe that god made man in his image of course independent of all other life on this planet.

As far as "selling" you anything I am not sure what you mean. I am "selling" the idea that telling and passing on lies is wrong and therefor evil IMHO.

Since there is no factual supporting evidence that god exists I maintain that god as understood by most organized religion is a bald faced lie.

It is a lie to suggest that believing in a god causes no one harm.. That is clearly a lie as shown by the clerk that won't sign marriage licences for the homos. Now I suppose you will run with THAT saying I am a homo lover..and I quote the homos or some nonsense. Fact is that the homos ARE human beings and the clerk is causing them harm. At least she was until she got her dumb religious ass arrested.

You asked for proof about the evolution and against my common sensibilities I did a quick search and provided some pretty good, easy to digest 411.

AND did you offer any factual evidence that god exists? No..you just started crying about my thumbnail offering.

I'm beginning to think you are not capable of playing a straight game. You just WANT there to be a god and that's that. What YOU are selling is your own personal need that there be a god. I have no such need so I guess it's NO SALE.

While you only appear to be here to shout how you don't believe in a God at all so you can criticize the beliefs of others. While in turn when other issues happen people like you deny that you are targeting those same beliefs with progressive issues. Then you wonder why the liberals support for any specific candidate is being shredded at the seams? It's because your far left beliefs are dissuading the moderates from supporting them.

*****SMILE*****

You have been on this MB for about 5 minutes and you just show up and "know my beliefs"?

So that makes me your lesser?

In this vague and hate filled post it is you that has shown YOUR agenda which has NOTHING to do with me.

You appear to be pretty good at spewing some hate yourself.

Here is a heads up for you Sparky. I have never voted democrat in the 66 years I've been on this earth.

I doubt that sonny boy.

As a typical RWer you ASSUME you know everything and actually you only know what you are told to know by people(The Kochs) that don't give a rat's ass about you.

You assume much yourself.

[If you had done any research on MY posts you would know that I have never praised Hillary or Obama.

Yawn!!!!!!

I have defended the OFFICE of the presidency as I believe every American should. Disrespect for the highest office on the planet is ignorant as it only makes us as Americans appear that we don't want to stand up for our country in the eyes of others, the terrorist types, that gain boldness believing that we are soft and stupid

I will defend the United States of America... I do not defend the office of the president or congress if I disagree with what they are doing.

I am an old school republican as far as political leanings.

I don't believe you at this point... Though I admit I may be wrong.

Eisenhower was the last republican president that wasn't a glorified used car salesman or an actor. I am embarrassed to admit that I voted for Bush's daddy and young George and look where that got us.

I thought you didn't attack presidents.

Herbert Walker invaded Iraq under false premise but at least he had the sense to pull out before he had destroyed the whole country. Dumb ass "W" driven by the most evil Americans ever close to the oval office in Cheney and Rove damn near bankrupted the country and invaded two countries based on lies. So I will NEVER ..I repeat NEVER vote for a republican president again. That doesn't mean I lean left. It means that republicans have become vile and crazy demigods with stupid religious agendas and will take our country to war with hardly a scrap of an honest reason.

Then take G. W. Bush up on war trials and prove the lies... However if he can prove that misinformation was feed to the White House let the treason trials begin. If misinformation, which is treason BTW, then I want the traitors hung by the neck along Memorial Mall and left there to rot.

But you don't want to hear a voice of reason do you.

I think I'm being very reasonable... You're the one who appears to be upset.

You have already made up your mind ..

Nope!... But you made up your mind when you created your OP.

...or better put ..someone is using you and has made up your mind for you.

No again!... Though I might believe that you are.

You think you know who is a liberal and based on this non existent proof go off running at the mouth about how this person or that person is a "lefty" or a "liberal". You REALLY don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Prove me wrong. You sound like one with all your arguments of hate about RW's.

Lucky you that the internet is a safe place to hide. Where I live you would have swallowed most of your teeth by now because that's what happens to a-holes that tell lies on others.

Have a good day.

I see... When all else fails use possible threats of reprisal... Now there's a standard left wing tactic that I'm familiar with.

*****ROFLMAO*****

 

[S.J.]

Now that would depend on what a person believes God is all about now wouldn't it?

*****CHUCKLE*****

No because at the core of the argument or debate is that something must have created all this. Athiest disagree because we lack evidence. Theist believe because they can't imagine any other way. That's it.

Everything else is bullshit. Heaven, hell, angels, devils and gods. All bullshit.

You believe the unbelievable without sufficient evidence and that I find unbelievable.

Sounds like you're describing one of your own. Where's your proof?

Of what? Something that isn't there?

We're right back to where we were before moses supposedly talked to God. Before he came down with that lie some people believed. Moses' encounter just confirmed their belief. Soon they had a thick book to read full of fascinating stuff.

Of evolution. Yes, something that isn't there, moron. You're stoned again, aren't you?

So God planted a mosquito seed then a tardigrade seed and a separate polar bear black bear and grizzly and all the different birds? Tigers lions all the different fish rodents bugs spiders dinosaurs trilobites crab snakes frogs. That's your theory you'll put against a scientific theory? The highest honor an idea can achieve.

The difference is that I don't claim to have proof of creationism. You, however, claim you have proof of evolution but you can't produce it. Admit it's no more than a theory and we won't have a problem.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

I understand your evolution 'theory'. It is only a theory.

You and the other atheist's haven't answered my question on what kick started the universe.

Does this mean I'm correct in assuming a miracle happened and that your big bang theory is just another creation theology?

It would seem so.

*****SMILE*****

The God hypothesis isn't even a theory. Certainly not a scientific one. It's complete bullshit.

Now that would depend on what a person believes God is all about now wouldn't it?

*****CHUCKLE*****

No because at the core of the argument or debate is that something must have created all this. Athiest disagree because we lack evidence. Theist believe because they can't imagine any other way. That's it.

Everything else is bullshit. Heaven, hell, angels, devils and gods. All bullshit.

You believe the unbelievable without sufficient evidence and that I find unbelievable.

I have all the proof I need that God exists.

You on the other hand simply have another creation theology provided by your alter of scientific knowledge.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Huggy bitch slapped you son.

No he didn't sonny boy. But he gave me plenty of ammunition to play with.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Tuatara]

In evolution a species does not give birth to another species.

.
Believing In A God Is Evil

no, but at the convergence one specimen will ... the process to "birth" is infinitely alterable as a progression through time with a cumulative objective and conclusion.

only at the Apex, purity as preordained by the Almighty may change occur.

.

Translation please. Babel doesn't have a setting for gibberish

 

[Tuatara]

Sort of like idiots who believe we evolved from apes?

We are apes. Seriously.

 

[S.J.]

Sort of like idiots who believe we evolved from apes?

We are apes. Seriously.

Speak for yourself, monkey man.

 

[Tuatara]

I understand your evolution 'theory'. It is only a theory.

I seriously doubt it as you do not understand the meaning of a scientific theory.

You and the other atheist's haven't answered my question on what kick started the universe.

I did answer your question. Go back and read.

Does this mean I'm correct in assuming a miracle happened and that your big bang theory is just another creation theology?

It would seem so.

You can assume whatever you want. It doesn't make it true. Also the definition of miracle states that an event is attributed to a supernatural power or being. Science does not deal with the supernatural, only the natural world. The big bang theory came about through science. Your creation / miracle theory didn't.

 

[Tuatara]

Sort of like idiots who believe we evolved from apes?

We are apes. Seriously.

Speak for yourself, monkey man.

Monkeys are not apes.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

I understand your evolution 'theory'. It is only a theory.

I seriously doubt it as you do not understand the meaning of a scientific theory.

You and the other atheist's haven't answered my question on what kick started the universe.

I did answer your question. Go back and read.

Does this mean I'm correct in assuming a miracle happened and that your big bang theory is just another creation theology?

It would seem so.

You can assume whatever you want. It doesn't make it true. Also the definition of miracle states that an event is attributed to a supernatural power or being. Science does not deal with the supernatural, only the natural world. The big bang theory came about through science. Your creation / miracle theory didn't.

1. I probably understand what theory means better than you.

2. No you didn't. You deflected.

3. Miracle also means... "A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences." And I've already said that my beliefs encompass science as a means of understanding the nature of God. I'm sure you'll figure it out.....

.....But you and a couple others haven't so far so I won't hold my breath.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Tuatara]

1. I probably understand what theory means better than you.

2. No you didn't. You deflected.

3. Miracle also means... "A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences." And I've already said that my beliefs encompass science as a means of understanding the nature of God. I'm sure you'll figure it out.....



.....But you and a couple others haven't so far so I won't hold my breath.

First of all, do we really need the artwork and videos on every post.

1.As for you understanding what a scientific theory is, you have no idea what it is.

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.

You stated that you understand evolution and that it's only a theory. Why yes, it is a theory, just like the theory of gravity. Do you see the difference in the definition between scientic theory and the theory you are using?

2. I gave you my answer "As for the creation of the universe I don't know how that happened. The big bang theory is the best answer for now" Not a deflection but an actual honest answer. In fact I believe anyone who says they know what happened is being dishonest.

3. I like how your definition uses the phrase "A highly improbable or extraordinary event" yet we hear the word miracle almost daily in our lives. Science has no say in the matter of god.

Science is a powerful "way of knowing" based on experimentation and observations of the natural world. We depend on science for unbiased and verifiable information to make important decisions about our lives. Although there are other ways of knowing that may be important in our personal and cultural lives, they rely on opinion, belief, and other factors rather than on evidence and testing.

The scientific method utilizes a series of facts, hypotheses, laws, and theories to explain observations in the natural world. Everyday use of these terms is different than in the scientific context, leading to unintentional and intentional confusion. Theory is one of the most important—yet most misunderstood—terms. While theory is commonly used to mean a "hunch" or "opinion," in science, a theory is an extremely strong statement that provides an explanation of a natural phenomenon based on a wealth of well-documented evidence. A theory must include the following criteria:

• It must be tested by experimentation and observation of the natural world.
• It must be falsifiable (i.e. experiments must exist that could prove it false).
• It cannot be proven, only confirmed or disconfirmed.
• It is subject to revision and change.

Science has no matter in the supernatural.