Believing In A God Is Evil

RE:
Huggy bitch slapped you son.

No he didn't sonny boy. But he gave me plenty of ammunition to play with.

I'd say you showed you are equally right and wrong on some points.
HUGGY made it clear he is not of the liberal political group you threw him in with.
And we both know taking a hard edge against the existence of God
is as problematic as what Huggy is arguing against.

So more likely he will be corrected on some of those points,
as he corrected you on his record of being "whatever that is he described"
but which isn't the Hillary-hugging Obama-phoning liberal you chalked him up to be.
 
I understand your evolution 'theory'. It is only a theory.
I seriously doubt it as you do not understand the meaning of a scientific theory.

You and the other atheist's haven't answered my question on what kick started the universe.
I did answer your question. Go back and read.

Does this mean I'm correct in assuming a miracle happened and that your big bang theory is just another creation theology?

It would seem so.
You can assume whatever you want. It doesn't make it true. Also the definition of miracle states that an event is attributed to a supernatural power or being. Science does not deal with the supernatural, only the natural world. The big bang theory came about through science. Your creation / miracle theory didn't.

1. I probably understand what theory means better than you.

2. No you didn't. You deflected.

3. Miracle also means... "A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences." And I've already said that my beliefs encompass science as a means of understanding the nature of God. I'm sure you'll figure it out.....

images


.....But you and a couple others haven't so far so I won't hold my breath.

*****CHUCKLE*****



:)


Dear Damaged Eagle
I notice you add both ART and SCIENCE in with your posts.

Would you say it is a fair statement
that people of faith can include science, and contain it all without contradiction conflict or omission,
but science cannot contain all things expressed through faith.

Would you say that science, being based on what is known as finite in scope,
is a subset of the larger set of laws and truth in the world that is both known and unknown
and can allude to the infinite beyond our limited human scope?
 
1. I probably understand what theory means better than you.

2. No you didn't. You deflected.

3. Miracle also means... "A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences." And I've already said that my beliefs encompass science as a means of understanding the nature of God. I'm sure you'll figure it out.....



.....But you and a couple others haven't so far so I won't hold my breath.
First of all, do we really need the artwork and videos on every post.

It's my trademark.

Do you have a problem with cultural diversity and accepting the way others do things?

1.As for you understanding what a scientific theory is, you have no idea what it is.

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.

Why!!!!!! That's the definition I use also! It would seem that your assumption that I have no idea about what I'm talking about is... WRONG.

You stated that you understand evolution and that it's only a theory. Why yes, it is a theory, just like the theory of gravity. Do you see the difference in the definition between scientic theory and the theory you are using?

Do you understand that the models/theories that are made may or may not be correct which is why they are only considered theories whether it be about evolution, gravity, quantum mechanics, chemical bonding, etc...?

[2. I gave you my answer "As for the creation of the universe I don't know how that happened. The big bang theory is the best answer for now" Not a deflection but an actual honest answer. In fact I believe anyone who says they know what happened is being dishonest.

So the best you have is that a highly improbable and extraordinary event occurred that had welcome consequences..... I believe I've been saying that.

*****CHUCKLE*****

[3. I like how your definition uses the phrase "A highly improbable or extraordinary event" yet we hear the word miracle almost daily in our lives.

Why thank you!

[Science has no say in the matter of god.

That would depend on one's subjective reality and beliefs now wouldn't it?

[
Science is a powerful "way of knowing" based on experimentation and observations of the natural world. We depend on science for unbiased and verifiable information to make important decisions about our lives. Although there are other ways of knowing that may be important in our personal and cultural lives, they rely on opinion, belief, and other factors rather than on evidence and testing.

The scientific method utilizes a series of facts, hypotheses, laws, and theories to explain observations in the natural world. Everyday use of these terms is different than in the scientific context, leading to unintentional and intentional confusion. Theory is one of the most important—yet most misunderstood—terms. While theory is commonly used to mean a "hunch" or "opinion," in science, a theory is an extremely strong statement that provides an explanation of a natural phenomenon based on a wealth of well-documented evidence. A theory must include the following criteria:

  • It must be tested by experimentation and observation of the natural world.
  • It must be falsifiable (i.e. experiments must exist that could prove it false).
  • It cannot be proven, only confirmed or disconfirmed.
  • It is subject to revision and change.

Yes, yes, you quote the stand dialogue with your cut and past quite adequately.

[
Science has no matter in the supernatural.

Again... That would depend one's subjective reality and beliefs wouldn't it?

images


*****CHUCKLE*****



:)
 
RE:
Huggy bitch slapped you son.

No he didn't sonny boy. But he gave me plenty of ammunition to play with.

I'd say you showed you are equally right and wrong on some points.
HUGGY made it clear he is not of the liberal political group you threw him in with.
And we both know taking a hard edge against the existence of God
is as problematic as what Huggy is arguing against.

So more likely he will be corrected on some of those points,
as he corrected you on his record of being "whatever that is he described"
but which isn't the Hillary-hugging Obama-phoning liberal you chalked him up to be.

images


If I am wrong about him then I'll apologize. However at this time he's shown me anything to make me change my opinion of him. He's free to try over but after that last post from him, especially the ending statement, it's pretty apparent how far I should trust him about anything.

*****SMILE*****



:)
 
If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.
My brother really believes. But then isn't he lying to himself?

Forgive them for they know not what they do.

I can't believe they believed moses when he said he talked to God. If they'd swallow that the rest is easy.

It's OK to think some creator must have created all this. I disagree but I get it. But don't tell me this very elaborate bs story that should be called out 4 words in. In the beginning God. Excuse me who?

Moses, Jesus and Mohammed were all con artists. They played on the fears of some incredibly superstitious and ignorant people. We have to keep in mind that average people worshiped idols and a huge assortment of "gods" that these people believed had an active role in their lives and future.

If they wanted a child they would pray to a god of fertility and so on. When by natural causes there was a drought and crops failed their leaders prayed to gods that were supposed to make it rain..and sometimes these morons would murder some unlucky people as human sacrifice. Sacrificing everyday animals was common in an attempt to satisfy their gods.

So when Moses came along he wasn't preaching to a people that were playing with a full deck.

NOW we have many in our population almost as gullible as the goat herders of those ancient times. In fact they live their lives using the ridiculous perceptions of those old idiots as their guide. Astonishing!

Dear HUGGY
From my experience,
people who see the truth in life, interpret truth in the Bible, in what Jesus and Moses gave as the laws, etc.
people who see the problems in life, focus on problems in the Bible, in what Jesus and Moses said or did, etc.

it's the same Bible the same laws and process expressed therein
about the path of humanity in reaching mature stages of peace and justice.

What is different, which you point out, is people's perceptions and biases
they read into these things.

Since both sets of people are reading the same Bible,
then the difference in Interpretation is coming from the PERSON.

You have the right (and responsibility) for your own interpretation
which reflects on YOU.

Likewise, someone else who sees truth and goodness as the message in the Bible,
that perception reflects on THEM.

it's the same Bible, so any differences can be traced back to YOU
and why YOU have the biases you do (that other people do not).

You cannot blame your perception on Jesus, Moses or the Bible
when there are PLENTY of people who read the exact same things
you do, and yet get a positive message out of it to help all humanity.

OK...Now you are crossing a line I cannot join you on. There is absolutely no factual evidence that Moses talked to a god or was given a couple of tablets made by a god. The story though entertaining is hardly any proof of a god. It is more like evidence that this Moses person was desperate to make the Jewish tribes stop fighting among-st themselves. This same scenario was played out with Muhammad as he claimed conversations with a god and his lies became the foundation of Islam.

I am certainly not obligated to respect someone else's fantasy. Everyone should have the right to say what they want but that is not the same thing as anyone else has the obligation to listen to their made up garbage.

We are no longer a society of ignorant goat herders. Please do not insult my intelligence with nonsense.
 
I understand your evolution 'theory'. It is only a theory.
I seriously doubt it as you do not understand the meaning of a scientific theory.

You and the other atheist's haven't answered my question on what kick started the universe.
I did answer your question. Go back and read.

Does this mean I'm correct in assuming a miracle happened and that your big bang theory is just another creation theology?

It would seem so.
You can assume whatever you want. It doesn't make it true. Also the definition of miracle states that an event is attributed to a supernatural power or being. Science does not deal with the supernatural, only the natural world. The big bang theory came about through science. Your creation / miracle theory didn't.

1. I probably understand what theory means better than you.

2. No you didn't. You deflected.

3. Miracle also means... "A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences." And I've already said that my beliefs encompass science as a means of understanding the nature of God. I'm sure you'll figure it out.....

images


.....But you and a couple others haven't so far so I won't hold my breath.

*****CHUCKLE*****



:)


Dear Damaged Eagle
I notice you add both ART and SCIENCE in with your posts.

Would you say it is a fair statement
that people of faith can include science, and contain it all without contradiction conflict or omission,
but science cannot contain all things expressed through faith.

Would you say that science, being based on what is known as finite in scope,
is a subset of the larger set of laws and truth in the world that is both known and unknown
and can allude to the infinite beyond our limited human scope?


images


It would depend on the beliefs we are talking about when you say faith.

The universe is a big place and infinity is a pretty big number.

*****SMILE*****



:)
 
You...I believe it was you...asked for some proof about evolution. I maintain that if evolution is true that most if not all of the god references in the bibles go bye bye.

There are a handful of folks that believe that evolution can be true independent of whether a god exists or not. From what I can tell you are not among that group. You seem to believe that god made man in his image of course independent of all other life on this planet.

As far as "selling" you anything I am not sure what you mean. I am "selling" the idea that telling and passing on lies is wrong and therefor evil IMHO.

Since there is no factual supporting evidence that god exists I maintain that god as understood by most organized religion is a bald faced lie.

It is a lie to suggest that believing in a god causes no one harm.. That is clearly a lie as shown by the clerk that won't sign marriage licences for the homos. Now I suppose you will run with THAT saying I am a homo lover..and I quote the homos or some nonsense. Fact is that the homos ARE human beings and the clerk is causing them harm. At least she was until she got her dumb religious ass arrested.

You asked for proof about the evolution and against my common sensibilities I did a quick search and provided some pretty good, easy to digest 411.

AND did you offer any factual evidence that god exists? No..you just started crying about my thumbnail offering.

I'm beginning to think you are not capable of playing a straight game. You just WANT there to be a god and that's that. What YOU are selling is your own personal need that there be a god. I have no such need so I guess it's NO SALE.

images


While you only appear to be here to shout how you don't believe in a God at all so you can criticize the beliefs of others. While in turn when other issues happen people like you deny that you are targeting those same beliefs with progressive issues. Then you wonder why the liberals support for any specific candidate is being shredded at the seams? It's because your far left beliefs are dissuading the moderates from supporting them.

*****SMILE*****



:)


You have been on this MB for about 5 minutes and you just show up and "know my beliefs"?

In this vague and hate filled post it is you that has shown YOUR agenda which has NOTHING to do with me.

Here is a heads up for you Sparky. I have never voted democrat in the 66 years I've been on this earth.

As a typical RWer you ASSUME you know everything and actually you only know what you are told to know by people(The Kochs) that don't give a rat's ass about you. If you had done any research on MY posts you would know that I have never praised Hillary or Obama. I have defended the OFFICE of the presidency as I believe every American should. Disrespect for the highest office on the planet is ignorant as it only makes us as Americans appear that we don't want to stand up for our country in the eyes of others, the terrorist types, that gain boldness believing that we are soft and stupid.

I am an old school republican as far as political leanings. Eisenhower was the last republican president that wasn't a glorified used car salesman or an actor. I am embarrassed to admit that I voted for Bush's daddy and young George and look where that got us. Herbert Walker invaded Iraq under false premise but at least he had the sense to pull out before he had destroyed the whole country. Dumb ass "W" driven by the most evil Americans ever close to the oval office in Cheney and Rove damn near bankrupted the country and invaded two countries based on lies. So I will NEVER ..I repeat NEVER vote for a republican president again. That doesn't mean I lean left. It means that republicans have become vile and crazy demigods with stupid religious agendas and will take our country to war with hardly a scrap of an honest reason.

But you don't want to hear a voice of reason do you. You have already made up your mind ..or better put ..someone is using you and has made up your mind for you. You think you know who is a liberal and based on this non existent proof go off running at the mouth about how this person or that person is a "lefty" or a "liberal". You REALLY don't have a clue what you are talking about. Lucky you that the internet is a safe place to hide. Where I live you would have swallowed most of your teeth by now because that's what happens to a-holes that tell lies on others.

Have a good day.


Hi HUGGY What about
God meaning the Forces of Life.
Do we really need to prove that "Life" exists, or can we just agree what we are talking about as real?

God meaning the Forces or laws of NATURE
Do we really need to prove that Nature exists, or can we just agree we are talking about something real?

God meaning collective truth or energy/matter in the UNIVERSE
Do we need to prove that the Universe exists, or can assume or agree that we
mean the same thing when we REFER to the UNIVERSE

Do you get my point?

isn't the issue really that
* we don't agree that these terms can refer to the same source of life
or
* we don't agree on how the RULES of Nature, Life or the Universe work
or
* we don't agree if we can reconcile on common truths GIVEN the differences we have

Whatever we call God/Life/Nature/Universal laws, this thing we call the default reality
is what it is. What we don't agree on is (1) which terms are better to use: secular or religious,
left or right approaches, focus on individual or collective (2) what is the nature of the process
or systems of life and humanity, are they geared toward good or destruction (3) and whether
or not people and groups CAN work out issues given these differences, which affects whether
we TRY to resolve issues or we "give up" and resort to bullying by exclusion or coercion to FORCE our way.

=====================

Some people are teaching that Good overcomes evil,
that it is better to make peace and include all people in a universal good will and higher goals for humanity,
and that having FAITH we can achieve this allows us to achieve it.

Others are teaching NO you cannot have any of these people teaching religions, because these are "wrong and cannot be corrected" (or are too much trouble to correct and need to be tossed out).
NO these CANNOT be at peace, and we need to change "that other group" to solve the problem
"and since that group WON'T change then the alternative is to force them and fight them down."

When all groups project blame "at the other one" then there is nothing but conflict,
competition and fighting to force the OTHER person/group to change.
This causes endless division, conflict, war, abuse and cycles of oppression and destruction.

Isn't THAT the problem.
It's not a matter if you believe in a personified God or not.
What matter is if you believe the NATURE of the world and of humanity
is headed for good, or is bounded for self-destruction that cannot be corrected.

If you have FAITH that the path in life is toward GOOD, then you would seek to establish this GOOD.
If you don't have faith that people can reconcile and anything good can come
of these differences and conflicts, HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO ACHIEVE ANYTHING GOOD.

Can you see THAT is the issue of faith.
Not do you believe in a personified God,
but WHAT do you believe is the point, nature and purpose
of life and the workings in the universe, including humanity?

These beliefs if life is good or not,
do NOT require believing in a personified God.
That is NOT the point.

The point is what do we believe about life
and how does that affect how we treat each other
and act in this world.


I have no problems with WHAT you state as your personal guidelines of living.

I only find it unnecessary that you feel it important to label these feelings and directives as "god".


OK and what if someone takes equal exception with you.
That they believe in good things, but don't think it is necessary to
EXCLUDE the people who express things in terms of God.

Don't both groups set each other off if they make this a "required" condition?
And what is wrong with letting the secular people use NONTHEIST terms
and let the believers use theistic terms that are necessary for THEM.

Why can't each group be okay when the other group REQUIRES
either Christian language or purely secular language.

Are you okay with God-language as long as someone agrees
it's NOT "required for you to use" just because they require it for themselves?

Thanks, HUGGY
If we can get past the language hangups
that only leaves us to deal with the other two levels causing world war...
:)


No two people are the same therefor not equal in the sense of your demonstration.

Anyone can say anything they want but the only rule that stays in place is respect for the other persons sensibilities. I am not obligated to take someone else's ridiculous fairy tales as factual. If someone wants to conduct a conversation with me they have to make sense. I will not suffer a fool.

If someone starts telling me that god said this or that I will cut them off and demand that they prove such insane gibberish or please STFU. If they insist ...the conversation will be terminated and I will believe one thing. This individual is wasting my time...which is all we really have. They are in fact stealing a part of my life which can never be replaced.
 
And just how long have the Jews and the Jesus freaks been selling the god nonsense? 3000 years?
I don't know, but I'm not trying to sell you anything, so don't try to sell me anything. See how that works?

You...I believe it was you...asked for some proof about evolution. I maintain that if evolution is true that most if not all of the god references in the bibles go bye bye.

There are a handful of folks that believe that evolution can be true independent of whether a god exists or not. From what I can tell you are not among that group. You seem to believe that god made man in his image of course independent of all other life on this planet.

As far as "selling" you anything I am not sure what you mean. I am "selling" the idea that telling and passing on lies is wrong and therefor evil IMHO.

Since there is no factual supporting evidence that god exists I maintain that god as understood by most organized religion is a bald faced lie.

It is a lie to suggest that believing in a god causes no one harm.. That is clearly a lie as shown by the clerk that won't sign marriage licences for the homos. Now I suppose you will run with THAT saying I am a homo lover..and I quote the homos or some nonsense. Fact is that the homos ARE human beings and the clerk is causing them harm. At least she was until she got her dumb religious ass arrested.

You asked for proof about the evolution and against my common sensibilities I did a quick search and provided some pretty good, easy to digest 411.

AND did you offer any factual evidence that god exists? No..you just started crying about my thumbnail offering.

I'm beginning to think you are not capable of playing a straight game. You just WANT there to be a god and that's that. What YOU are selling is your own personal need that there be a god. I have no such need so I guess it's NO SALE.

images


While you only appear to be here to shout how you don't believe in a God at all so you can criticize the beliefs of others. While in turn when other issues happen people like you deny that you are targeting those same beliefs with progressive issues. Then you wonder why the liberals support for any specific candidate is being shredded at the seams? It's because your far left beliefs are dissuading the moderates from supporting them.

*****SMILE*****



:)


You have been on this MB for about 5 minutes and you just show up and "know my beliefs"?


So that makes me your lesser?

In this vague and hate filled post it is you that has shown YOUR agenda which has NOTHING to do with me.

You appear to be pretty good at spewing some hate yourself.

Here is a heads up for you Sparky. I have never voted democrat in the 66 years I've been on this earth.

I doubt that sonny boy.

As a typical RWer you ASSUME you know everything and actually you only know what you are told to know by people(The Kochs) that don't give a rat's ass about you.

You assume much yourself.

[If you had done any research on MY posts you would know that I have never praised Hillary or Obama.

Yawn!!!!!!

I have defended the OFFICE of the presidency as I believe every American should. Disrespect for the highest office on the planet is ignorant as it only makes us as Americans appear that we don't want to stand up for our country in the eyes of others, the terrorist types, that gain boldness believing that we are soft and stupid

I will defend the United States of America... I do not defend the office of the president or congress if I disagree with what they are doing.

I am an old school republican as far as political leanings.

I don't believe you at this point... Though I admit I may be wrong.

Eisenhower was the last republican president that wasn't a glorified used car salesman or an actor. I am embarrassed to admit that I voted for Bush's daddy and young George and look where that got us.

I thought you didn't attack presidents.

Herbert Walker invaded Iraq under false premise but at least he had the sense to pull out before he had destroyed the whole country. Dumb ass "W" driven by the most evil Americans ever close to the oval office in Cheney and Rove damn near bankrupted the country and invaded two countries based on lies. So I will NEVER ..I repeat NEVER vote for a republican president again. That doesn't mean I lean left. It means that republicans have become vile and crazy demigods with stupid religious agendas and will take our country to war with hardly a scrap of an honest reason.

Then take G. W. Bush up on war trials and prove the lies... However if he can prove that misinformation was feed to the White House let the treason trials begin. If misinformation, which is treason BTW, then I want the traitors hung by the neck along Memorial Mall and left there to rot.

But you don't want to hear a voice of reason do you.

I think I'm being very reasonable... You're the one who appears to be upset.

You have already made up your mind ..

Nope!... But you made up your mind when you created your OP.

...or better put ..someone is using you and has made up your mind for you.

No again!... Though I might believe that you are.

You think you know who is a liberal and based on this non existent proof go off running at the mouth about how this person or that person is a "lefty" or a "liberal". You REALLY don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Prove me wrong. You sound like one with all your arguments of hate about RW's.

Lucky you that the internet is a safe place to hide. Where I live you would have swallowed most of your teeth by now because that's what happens to a-holes that tell lies on others.

Have a good day.

images


I see... When all else fails use possible threats of reprisal... Now there's a standard left wing tactic that I'm familiar with.

*****ROFLMAO*****



:)


You have shown me no good reason to suffer your foolishness. OUR conversation is terminated.
 
If someone starts telling me that god said this or that I will cut them off and demand that they prove such insane gibberish or please STFU. If they insist ...the conversation will be terminated and I will believe one thing. This individual is wasting my time...which is all we really have. They are in fact stealing a part of my life which can never be replaced.
That's exactly how I feel about you jerkoffs who keep pushing evolution. The difference is that I don't CLAIM to have proof of creation so your argument is not valid. YOU'RE the one who claims to have proof, so provide it or stfu. And CLAIMING you have proven it isn't the same as PROVING it.
 
If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.
My brother really believes. But then isn't he lying to himself?

Forgive them for they know not what they do.

I can't believe they believed moses when he said he talked to God. If they'd swallow that the rest is easy.

It's OK to think some creator must have created all this. I disagree but I get it. But don't tell me this very elaborate bs story that should be called out 4 words in. In the beginning God. Excuse me who?

Moses, Jesus and Mohammed were all con artists. They played on the fears of some incredibly superstitious and ignorant people. We have to keep in mind that average people worshiped idols and a huge assortment of "gods" that these people believed had an active role in their lives and future.

If they wanted a child they would pray to a god of fertility and so on. When by natural causes there was a drought and crops failed their leaders prayed to gods that were supposed to make it rain..and sometimes these morons would murder some unlucky people as human sacrifice. Sacrificing everyday animals was common in an attempt to satisfy their gods.

So when Moses came along he wasn't preaching to a people that were playing with a full deck.

NOW we have many in our population almost as gullible as the goat herders of those ancient times. In fact they live their lives using the ridiculous perceptions of those old idiots as their guide. Astonishing!

Dear HUGGY
From my experience,
people who see the truth in life, interpret truth in the Bible, in what Jesus and Moses gave as the laws, etc.
people who see the problems in life, focus on problems in the Bible, in what Jesus and Moses said or did, etc.

it's the same Bible the same laws and process expressed therein
about the path of humanity in reaching mature stages of peace and justice.

What is different, which you point out, is people's perceptions and biases
they read into these things.

Since both sets of people are reading the same Bible,
then the difference in Interpretation is coming from the PERSON.

You have the right (and responsibility) for your own interpretation
which reflects on YOU.

Likewise, someone else who sees truth and goodness as the message in the Bible,
that perception reflects on THEM.

it's the same Bible, so any differences can be traced back to YOU
and why YOU have the biases you do (that other people do not).

You cannot blame your perception on Jesus, Moses or the Bible
when there are PLENTY of people who read the exact same things
you do, and yet get a positive message out of it to help all humanity.

OK...Now you are crossing a line I cannot join you on. There is absolutely no factual evidence that Moses talked to a god or was given a couple of tablets made by a god. The story though entertaining is hardly any proof of a god. It is more like evidence that this Moses person was desperate to make the Jewish tribes stop fighting among-st themselves. This same scenario was played out with Muhammad as he claimed conversations with a god and his lies became the foundation of Islam.

I am certainly not obligated to respect someone else's fantasy. Everyone should have the right to say what they want but that is not the same thing as anyone else has the obligation to listen to their made up garbage.

We are no longer a society of ignorant goat herders. Please do not insult my intelligence with nonsense.

images


Yet that's exactly what you expected when you painted all people who believe there is a God as evil with your OP.

*****CHUCKLE*****


:FIREdevil:
 
1. I probably understand what theory means better than you.

2. No you didn't. You deflected.

3. Miracle also means... "A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences." And I've already said that my beliefs encompass science as a means of understanding the nature of God. I'm sure you'll figure it out.....



.....But you and a couple others haven't so far so I won't hold my breath.
First of all, do we really need the artwork and videos on every post.

1.As for you understanding what a scientific theory is, you have no idea what it is.

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.

You stated that you understand evolution and that it's only a theory. Why yes, it is a theory, just like the theory of gravity. Do you see the difference in the definition between scientic theory and the theory you are using?

2. I gave you my answer "As for the creation of the universe I don't know how that happened. The big bang theory is the best answer for now" Not a deflection but an actual honest answer. In fact I believe anyone who says they know what happened is being dishonest.

3. I like how your definition uses the phrase "A highly improbable or extraordinary event" yet we hear the word miracle almost daily in our lives. Science has no say in the matter of god.

Science is a powerful "way of knowing" based on experimentation and observations of the natural world. We depend on science for unbiased and verifiable information to make important decisions about our lives. Although there are other ways of knowing that may be important in our personal and cultural lives, they rely on opinion, belief, and other factors rather than on evidence and testing.

The scientific method utilizes a series of facts, hypotheses, laws, and theories to explain observations in the natural world. Everyday use of these terms is different than in the scientific context, leading to unintentional and intentional confusion. Theory is one of the most important—yet most misunderstood—terms. While theory is commonly used to mean a "hunch" or "opinion," in science, a theory is an extremely strong statement that provides an explanation of a natural phenomenon based on a wealth of well-documented evidence. A theory must include the following criteria:

  • It must be tested by experimentation and observation of the natural world.
  • It must be falsifiable (i.e. experiments must exist that could prove it false).
  • It cannot be proven, only confirmed or disconfirmed.
  • It is subject to revision and change.
Science has no matter in the supernatural.

With today's media a remarkable situation occurs where the circumstance just so happens that a life gets saved by the timing of the event and some declare it a miracle. The TRUTH is that a thousand times more often the timing is inconvenient for the victim and they die. These overwhelming unfortunate situations don't get the "press" of the unusual event. Obviously this so called "god" kills a thousand or sometimes many more than the ones he saves. My conclusion is that it is silly to give some sky fairy credit for chance remarkable circumstance and no condemnation for the overwhelming numbers where no "miracle" was issued. This so called god is not just fickle he is a straight up sadistic mass murderer. So finally one must concede that there is in fact no god.
 
images


While you only appear to be here to shout how you don't believe in a God at all so you can criticize the beliefs of others. While in turn when other issues happen people like you deny that you are targeting those same beliefs with progressive issues. Then you wonder why the liberals support for any specific candidate is being shredded at the seams? It's because your far left beliefs are dissuading the moderates from supporting them.

*****SMILE*****



:)


You have been on this MB for about 5 minutes and you just show up and "know my beliefs"?

In this vague and hate filled post it is you that has shown YOUR agenda which has NOTHING to do with me.

Here is a heads up for you Sparky. I have never voted democrat in the 66 years I've been on this earth.

As a typical RWer you ASSUME you know everything and actually you only know what you are told to know by people(The Kochs) that don't give a rat's ass about you. If you had done any research on MY posts you would know that I have never praised Hillary or Obama. I have defended the OFFICE of the presidency as I believe every American should. Disrespect for the highest office on the planet is ignorant as it only makes us as Americans appear that we don't want to stand up for our country in the eyes of others, the terrorist types, that gain boldness believing that we are soft and stupid.

I am an old school republican as far as political leanings. Eisenhower was the last republican president that wasn't a glorified used car salesman or an actor. I am embarrassed to admit that I voted for Bush's daddy and young George and look where that got us. Herbert Walker invaded Iraq under false premise but at least he had the sense to pull out before he had destroyed the whole country. Dumb ass "W" driven by the most evil Americans ever close to the oval office in Cheney and Rove damn near bankrupted the country and invaded two countries based on lies. So I will NEVER ..I repeat NEVER vote for a republican president again. That doesn't mean I lean left. It means that republicans have become vile and crazy demigods with stupid religious agendas and will take our country to war with hardly a scrap of an honest reason.

But you don't want to hear a voice of reason do you. You have already made up your mind ..or better put ..someone is using you and has made up your mind for you. You think you know who is a liberal and based on this non existent proof go off running at the mouth about how this person or that person is a "lefty" or a "liberal". You REALLY don't have a clue what you are talking about. Lucky you that the internet is a safe place to hide. Where I live you would have swallowed most of your teeth by now because that's what happens to a-holes that tell lies on others.

Have a good day.


Hi HUGGY What about
God meaning the Forces of Life.
Do we really need to prove that "Life" exists, or can we just agree what we are talking about as real?

God meaning the Forces or laws of NATURE
Do we really need to prove that Nature exists, or can we just agree we are talking about something real?

God meaning collective truth or energy/matter in the UNIVERSE
Do we need to prove that the Universe exists, or can assume or agree that we
mean the same thing when we REFER to the UNIVERSE

Do you get my point?

isn't the issue really that
* we don't agree that these terms can refer to the same source of life
or
* we don't agree on how the RULES of Nature, Life or the Universe work
or
* we don't agree if we can reconcile on common truths GIVEN the differences we have

Whatever we call God/Life/Nature/Universal laws, this thing we call the default reality
is what it is. What we don't agree on is (1) which terms are better to use: secular or religious,
left or right approaches, focus on individual or collective (2) what is the nature of the process
or systems of life and humanity, are they geared toward good or destruction (3) and whether
or not people and groups CAN work out issues given these differences, which affects whether
we TRY to resolve issues or we "give up" and resort to bullying by exclusion or coercion to FORCE our way.

=====================

Some people are teaching that Good overcomes evil,
that it is better to make peace and include all people in a universal good will and higher goals for humanity,
and that having FAITH we can achieve this allows us to achieve it.

Others are teaching NO you cannot have any of these people teaching religions, because these are "wrong and cannot be corrected" (or are too much trouble to correct and need to be tossed out).
NO these CANNOT be at peace, and we need to change "that other group" to solve the problem
"and since that group WON'T change then the alternative is to force them and fight them down."

When all groups project blame "at the other one" then there is nothing but conflict,
competition and fighting to force the OTHER person/group to change.
This causes endless division, conflict, war, abuse and cycles of oppression and destruction.

Isn't THAT the problem.
It's not a matter if you believe in a personified God or not.
What matter is if you believe the NATURE of the world and of humanity
is headed for good, or is bounded for self-destruction that cannot be corrected.

If you have FAITH that the path in life is toward GOOD, then you would seek to establish this GOOD.
If you don't have faith that people can reconcile and anything good can come
of these differences and conflicts, HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO ACHIEVE ANYTHING GOOD.

Can you see THAT is the issue of faith.
Not do you believe in a personified God,
but WHAT do you believe is the point, nature and purpose
of life and the workings in the universe, including humanity?

These beliefs if life is good or not,
do NOT require believing in a personified God.
That is NOT the point.

The point is what do we believe about life
and how does that affect how we treat each other
and act in this world.


I have no problems with WHAT you state as your personal guidelines of living.

I only find it unnecessary that you feel it important to label these feelings and directives as "god".


OK and what if someone takes equal exception with you.
That they believe in good things, but don't think it is necessary to
EXCLUDE the people who express things in terms of God.

Don't both groups set each other off if they make this a "required" condition?
And what is wrong with letting the secular people use NONTHEIST terms
and let the believers use theistic terms that are necessary for THEM.

Why can't each group be okay when the other group REQUIRES
either Christian language or purely secular language.

Are you okay with God-language as long as someone agrees
it's NOT "required for you to use" just because they require it for themselves?

Thanks, HUGGY
If we can get past the language hangups
that only leaves us to deal with the other two levels causing world war...
:)


No two people are the same therefor not equal in the sense of your demonstration.

Anyone can say anything they want but the only rule that stays in place is respect for the other persons sensibilities. I am not obligated to take someone else's ridiculous fairy tales as factual. If someone wants to conduct a conversation with me they have to make sense. I will not suffer a fool.

If someone starts telling me that god said this or that I will cut them off and demand that they prove such insane gibberish or please STFU. If they insist ...the conversation will be terminated and I will believe one thing. This individual is wasting my time...which is all we really have. They are in fact stealing a part of my life which can never be replaced.


upload_2015-9-5_2-2-57.jpeg


I see... You're a close minded bigot when dealing with people who believe in God.

*****CHUCKLE*****



:)
 
I don't know, but I'm not trying to sell you anything, so don't try to sell me anything. See how that works?

You...I believe it was you...asked for some proof about evolution. I maintain that if evolution is true that most if not all of the god references in the bibles go bye bye.

There are a handful of folks that believe that evolution can be true independent of whether a god exists or not. From what I can tell you are not among that group. You seem to believe that god made man in his image of course independent of all other life on this planet.

As far as "selling" you anything I am not sure what you mean. I am "selling" the idea that telling and passing on lies is wrong and therefor evil IMHO.

Since there is no factual supporting evidence that god exists I maintain that god as understood by most organized religion is a bald faced lie.

It is a lie to suggest that believing in a god causes no one harm.. That is clearly a lie as shown by the clerk that won't sign marriage licences for the homos. Now I suppose you will run with THAT saying I am a homo lover..and I quote the homos or some nonsense. Fact is that the homos ARE human beings and the clerk is causing them harm. At least she was until she got her dumb religious ass arrested.

You asked for proof about the evolution and against my common sensibilities I did a quick search and provided some pretty good, easy to digest 411.

AND did you offer any factual evidence that god exists? No..you just started crying about my thumbnail offering.

I'm beginning to think you are not capable of playing a straight game. You just WANT there to be a god and that's that. What YOU are selling is your own personal need that there be a god. I have no such need so I guess it's NO SALE.

images


While you only appear to be here to shout how you don't believe in a God at all so you can criticize the beliefs of others. While in turn when other issues happen people like you deny that you are targeting those same beliefs with progressive issues. Then you wonder why the liberals support for any specific candidate is being shredded at the seams? It's because your far left beliefs are dissuading the moderates from supporting them.

*****SMILE*****



:)


You have been on this MB for about 5 minutes and you just show up and "know my beliefs"?


So that makes me your lesser?

In this vague and hate filled post it is you that has shown YOUR agenda which has NOTHING to do with me.

You appear to be pretty good at spewing some hate yourself.

Here is a heads up for you Sparky. I have never voted democrat in the 66 years I've been on this earth.

I doubt that sonny boy.

As a typical RWer you ASSUME you know everything and actually you only know what you are told to know by people(The Kochs) that don't give a rat's ass about you.

You assume much yourself.

[If you had done any research on MY posts you would know that I have never praised Hillary or Obama.

Yawn!!!!!!

I have defended the OFFICE of the presidency as I believe every American should. Disrespect for the highest office on the planet is ignorant as it only makes us as Americans appear that we don't want to stand up for our country in the eyes of others, the terrorist types, that gain boldness believing that we are soft and stupid

I will defend the United States of America... I do not defend the office of the president or congress if I disagree with what they are doing.

I am an old school republican as far as political leanings.

I don't believe you at this point... Though I admit I may be wrong.

Eisenhower was the last republican president that wasn't a glorified used car salesman or an actor. I am embarrassed to admit that I voted for Bush's daddy and young George and look where that got us.

I thought you didn't attack presidents.

Herbert Walker invaded Iraq under false premise but at least he had the sense to pull out before he had destroyed the whole country. Dumb ass "W" driven by the most evil Americans ever close to the oval office in Cheney and Rove damn near bankrupted the country and invaded two countries based on lies. So I will NEVER ..I repeat NEVER vote for a republican president again. That doesn't mean I lean left. It means that republicans have become vile and crazy demigods with stupid religious agendas and will take our country to war with hardly a scrap of an honest reason.

Then take G. W. Bush up on war trials and prove the lies... However if he can prove that misinformation was feed to the White House let the treason trials begin. If misinformation, which is treason BTW, then I want the traitors hung by the neck along Memorial Mall and left there to rot.

But you don't want to hear a voice of reason do you.

I think I'm being very reasonable... You're the one who appears to be upset.

You have already made up your mind ..

Nope!... But you made up your mind when you created your OP.

...or better put ..someone is using you and has made up your mind for you.

No again!... Though I might believe that you are.

You think you know who is a liberal and based on this non existent proof go off running at the mouth about how this person or that person is a "lefty" or a "liberal". You REALLY don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Prove me wrong. You sound like one with all your arguments of hate about RW's.

Lucky you that the internet is a safe place to hide. Where I live you would have swallowed most of your teeth by now because that's what happens to a-holes that tell lies on others.

Have a good day.

images


I see... When all else fails use possible threats of reprisal... Now there's a standard left wing tactic that I'm familiar with.

*****ROFLMAO*****



:)


You have shown me no good reason to suffer your foolishness. OUR conversation is terminated.


images


Does this mean you're putting me on ignore?

Just remember I'm not the one who uses a broad brush to paint others as evil.

*****CHUCKLE*****



:)
 
If someone starts telling me that god said this or that I will cut them off and demand that they prove such insane gibberish or please STFU. If they insist ...the conversation will be terminated and I will believe one thing. This individual is wasting my time...which is all we really have. They are in fact stealing a part of my life which can never be replaced.
That's exactly how I feel about you jerkoffs who keep pushing evolution. The difference is that I don't CLAIM to have proof of creation so your argument is not valid. YOU'RE the one who claims to have proof, so provide it or stfu. And CLAIMING you have proven it isn't the same as PROVING it.

Closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and chanting na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na will not make the reality of evolution and the millions of pages of research backing it up disappear.

That battle was lost by the religions several dozen decades ago. Still the mountain of knowledge in support of a more complete story of evolution keeps growing exponentially and falling back in the dust the story of a god gains no ground in fact. Now that the human race has the scientific instruments to measure the time objects have been around it is clear to all that have an interest in the subject that fact of evolution is a truth becoming more visible every day and the enemies of evolution are fading away with fewer and fewer reasons to not believe in this science. No one is "selling" evolution. The facts uncovered speak for themselves.
 
1. I probably understand what theory means better than you.

2. No you didn't. You deflected.

3. Miracle also means... "A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences." And I've already said that my beliefs encompass science as a means of understanding the nature of God. I'm sure you'll figure it out.....



.....But you and a couple others haven't so far so I won't hold my breath.
First of all, do we really need the artwork and videos on every post.

1.As for you understanding what a scientific theory is, you have no idea what it is.

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.

You stated that you understand evolution and that it's only a theory. Why yes, it is a theory, just like the theory of gravity. Do you see the difference in the definition between scientic theory and the theory you are using?

2. I gave you my answer "As for the creation of the universe I don't know how that happened. The big bang theory is the best answer for now" Not a deflection but an actual honest answer. In fact I believe anyone who says they know what happened is being dishonest.

3. I like how your definition uses the phrase "A highly improbable or extraordinary event" yet we hear the word miracle almost daily in our lives. Science has no say in the matter of god.

Science is a powerful "way of knowing" based on experimentation and observations of the natural world. We depend on science for unbiased and verifiable information to make important decisions about our lives. Although there are other ways of knowing that may be important in our personal and cultural lives, they rely on opinion, belief, and other factors rather than on evidence and testing.

The scientific method utilizes a series of facts, hypotheses, laws, and theories to explain observations in the natural world. Everyday use of these terms is different than in the scientific context, leading to unintentional and intentional confusion. Theory is one of the most important—yet most misunderstood—terms. While theory is commonly used to mean a "hunch" or "opinion," in science, a theory is an extremely strong statement that provides an explanation of a natural phenomenon based on a wealth of well-documented evidence. A theory must include the following criteria:

  • It must be tested by experimentation and observation of the natural world.
  • It must be falsifiable (i.e. experiments must exist that could prove it false).
  • It cannot be proven, only confirmed or disconfirmed.
  • It is subject to revision and change.
Science has no matter in the supernatural.

With today's media a remarkable situation occurs where the circumstance just so happens that a life gets saved by the timing of the event and some declare it a miracle. The TRUTH is that a thousand times more often the timing is inconvenient for the victim and they die. These overwhelming unfortunate situations don't get the "press" of the unusual event. Obviously this so called "god" kills a thousand or sometimes many more than the ones he saves. My conclusion is that it is silly to give some sky fairy credit for chance remarkable circumstance and no condemnation for the overwhelming numbers where no "miracle" was issued. This so called god is not just fickle he is a straight up sadistic mass murderer. So finally one must concede that there is in fact no god.

upload_2015-9-5_2-12-29.jpeg


We've discussed this. Show me where I ever said that your abstract human constructs of good and evil apply to God?

*****CHUCKLE*****



:)
 
If someone starts telling me that god said this or that I will cut them off and demand that they prove such insane gibberish or please STFU. If they insist ...the conversation will be terminated and I will believe one thing. This individual is wasting my time...which is all we really have. They are in fact stealing a part of my life which can never be replaced.
That's exactly how I feel about you jerkoffs who keep pushing evolution. The difference is that I don't CLAIM to have proof of creation so your argument is not valid. YOU'RE the one who claims to have proof, so provide it or stfu. And CLAIMING you have proven it isn't the same as PROVING it.

Closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and chanting na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na will not make the reality of evolution and the millions of pages of research backing it up disappear.

That battle was lost by the religions several dozen decades ago. Still the mountain of knowledge in support of a more complete story of evolution keeps growing exponentially and falling back in the dust the story of a god gains no ground in fact. Now that the human race has the scientific instruments to measure the time objects have been around it is clear to all that have an interest in the subject that fact of evolution is a truth becoming more visible every day and the enemies of evolution are fading away with fewer and fewer reasons to not believe in this science. No one is "selling" evolution. The facts uncovered speak for themselves.
Only in your mind, HUGGY. You have proven nothing but enjoy your fantasy.
 
It's my trademark.

Do you have a problem with cultural diversity and accepting the way others do things?
Posting rock music videos is cultural diversity???

Why!!!!!! That's the definition I use also! It would seem that your assumption that I have no idea about what I'm talking about is... WRONG.


Do you understand that the models/theories that are made may or may not be correct which is why they are only considered theories whether it be about evolution, gravity, quantum mechanics, chemical bonding, etc...?
Both definitions I posted state "repeatedly tested and confirmed" and "a wealth of well-documented evidence" That doesn't sound like it may or may not be correct. Evolution is a fact yet we see many creationists going back to the term "It's only a theory", which is exactly what you stated.



So the best you have is that a highly improbable and extraordinary event occurred that had welcome consequences..... I believe I've been saying that.
The term miracle has supernatural connatations. You even backed this assertion up yourself when you proclaimed "approximately 15 billion years ago a miracle occurred and all the wonders that are God exhibited themselves." Now you are back pedaling by throwing out a definition of miracle without religious connotations. This is not the definition of miracle you were showcasing. I could use the word miracle in this sentence. "It's a miracle Barbara is still with you after the way you treated her." Same word but not intended as the same meaning the way you originally posted it.



Why thank you!
I was showing you that the term miracle is used quite often for events that are not highly improbable and extraordinary.



That would depend on one's subjective reality and beliefs now wouldn't it?
Now you are delving into the world of philosophy which has business in a discussion about the truth.




Again... That would depend one's subjective reality and beliefs wouldn't it?
More philosophical ramblings.
 
It's my trademark.

Do you have a problem with cultural diversity and accepting the way others do things?
Posting rock music videos is cultural diversity???

Would you rather I said that you're showing an inability to accept diverse social behavior?


Why!!!!!! That's the definition I use also! It would seem that your assumption that I have no idea about what I'm talking about is... WRONG.


Do you understand that the models/theories that are made may or may not be correct which is why they are only considered theories whether it be about evolution, gravity, quantum mechanics, chemical bonding, etc...?

Both definitions I posted state "repeatedly tested and confirmed" and "a wealth of well-documented evidence" That doesn't sound like it may or may not be correct. Evolution is a fact yet we see many creationists going back to the term "It's only a theory", which is exactly what you stated.
It still doesn't mean they are correct. That's why they are called theories and not laws.

So the best you have is that a highly improbable and extraordinary event occurred that had welcome consequences..... I believe I've been saying that.

The term miracle has supernatural connatations. You even backed this assertion up yourself when you proclaimed "approximately 15 billion years ago a miracle occurred and all the wonders that are God exhibited themselves." Now you are back pedaling by throwing out a definition of miracle without religious connotations. This is not the definition of miracle you were showcasing. I could use the word miracle in this sentence. "It's a miracle Barbara is still with you after the way you treated her." Same word but not intended as the same meaning the way you originally posted it.
Why thank you! I was showing you that the term miracle is used quite often for events that are not highly improbable and extraordinary.

You're obvious problem is that you don't know what my beliefs are.


That would depend on one's subjective reality and beliefs now wouldn't it?
Now you are delving into the world of philosophy which has business in a discussion about the truth.

What makes you say that? There are many truths here whether you wish to believe that or not.

Again... That would depend one's subjective reality and beliefs wouldn't it?
More philosophical ramblings.

If that is what you wish to believe.

images



*****CHUCKLE*****



:)
 
Last edited:

Forum List

Back
Top