Ask a Gay Guy - Objective Dialog

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Ask a Gay Guy - Objective Dialog

The OP gets credit for making an honest effort, but there can be no objective dialogue when there is no objective evidence supporting a state’s desire to deny same-sex couples equal protection of the law.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I assume you have a to back this claim up.

She really doesn't. The twin studies vary on methodology way too much to use them to prove anything other than the fact that homosexuality is not genetic.

Gay Men in Twin Study - NYTimes.com

The Bailey Pillard study is one of the worst for methodology. There was no actually testing of the zygots, everything was based solely on answers to questions. It did not include any twins who were raised apart. It also self selected for participants who were open with their family by only advertising in publications that were friendly to homosexuals.

Like I said, you really don't have anything to back it up.

 

[Papageorgio]

The science:

NIH study links sexuality to genetic factor

It is a trait(.)

I've seen studies both ways and it depends on the funding. I have heard drug, alcohol, sex addictions, pedophilia, serial killers, are all genetic traits, not sure what to believe.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Interesting, what facts do you have that homosexuality is normal?

Just not following your logic or why you believe that others opinions should be discounted.

Okay. I guess I'll start with the APA (American Psychological Association) which is by far the largest and most influential mental health organization in the US, as well as being the largest in the world. Here is a link to dozens of peer reviewed articles that discuss homosexuality, as well as statements by the APA in regards to homosexuality. In short, they say that gay people are not "bad", their sexuality cannot be changed, they make effective citizens and gay couples should have the same rights as straight couples.

APA Policy Statements on Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Concerns

Ditto to the other top five largest scientific mental health organizations in the US.

Heres the opening sentence in the largest ever research study to determine the origins of sexual orientation - ""It builds on previous studies that have consistently found evidence of genetic influence on sexual orientation, but our study is the first to look at exactly where those genes are located," says researcher Brian Mustanski, PhD, a psychologist at the University of Illinois at Chicago."

Let me know if you want more.

Never said anyone was bad, it also doesn't call it normal, nor does the study Quantum say its genetic, unlike drug and alcohol addictions.

The APA also attempted to relable phedophiles as ill rather than criminals to lessen the stigma that paroled perverts have to deal with.

 

[Peach]

Ask a Gay Guy - Objective Dialog

The OP gets credit for making an honest effort, but there can be no objective dialogue when there is no objective evidence supporting a state’s desire to deny same-sex couples equal protection of the law.

Gee, Loving v. Virginia just keeps coming up..........................

 

[Papageorgio]

Ask a Gay Guy - Objective Dialog

The OP gets credit for making an honest effort, but there can be no objective dialogue when there is no objective evidence supporting a state’s desire to deny same-sex couples equal protection of the law.

He wasn't wanting to make an honest effort, he wanted to push his point. His agenda is still the same, you could tell by his judgements.

 

[bodecea]

She really doesn't. The twin studies vary on methodology way too much to use them to prove anything other than the fact that homosexuality is not genetic.

Gay Men in Twin Study - NYTimes.com

The Baley Pinard study is one of the worst for methodology. There was no actually testing of the zygots, everything was based solely on answers to questions. It did not include any twins who were raised apart. It also self selected for participants who were open with their family by only advertising in publications that were friendly to homosexuals.

Like I said, you really don't have anything to back it up.

Oh really?

Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mudwhistle]

Not completely genetic...but kindly explain why if one identical twin is gay, there is about a 50% chance that the other one is.....even if they are raised apart.

50% is half of a chance. You only have 2 choices.....gay or not.

compared to 2-10% for everyone else?

Identical twins tend to relate to each other on a different level than the rest of us.

They sometimes feel like they are one person. Of course the chances go up with them.

 

[Peach]

Gay Men in Twin Study - NYTimes.com

The Baley Pinard study is one of the worst for methodology. There was no actually testing of the zygots, everything was based solely on answers to questions. It did not include any twins who were raised apart. It also self selected for participants who were open with their family by only advertising in publications that were friendly to homosexuals.

Like I said, you really don't have anything to back it up.

Oh really?

Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Odd how gio can write of the genetic predisposition toward addiction, not everyone accepts alcohol & drug addiction have genetic links. Perhaps addicts just have low morals. And of course schizophrenia is caused by mean mothers......

For the hetero "choice" crowd: When did you CHOOSE to be heterosexual?

 

[Peach]

Gay Men in Twin Study - NYTimes.com

The Baley Pinard study is one of the worst for methodology. There was no actually testing of the zygots, everything was based solely on answers to questions. It did not include any twins who were raised apart. It also self selected for participants who were open with their family by only advertising in publications that were friendly to homosexuals.

Like I said, you really don't have anything to back it up.

Oh really?

Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is no science that indicates sexual orientation is some kind of "rebellion":

Genetics Has A Role In Determining Sexual Orientation In Men, Further Evidence

 

[eflatminor]

For the hetero "choice" crowd: When did you CHOOSE to be heterosexual?

Cuz' I just can't look at another man's hairy ass and find love. Can't do it.

 

[Amelia]

You should pick a better source.

Box Turtle Bulletin » Today In History: APA Removes Homosexuality from List of Mental Disorders

FYI, there is conclusive evidence that homosexuality is not genetic.

Not completely genetic...but kindly explain why if one identical twin is gay, there is about a 50% chance that the other one is.....even if they are raised apart.

I don't have to explain anything. If it was genetic in origin both twins would be gay no matter what. That is conclusive proof that it isn't genetic, and ends any debate about it on that level.

Peach already mentioned this, but it bears repeating: your logic would rule out genetics being a contributor to schizophrenia, etc.


Do you reject the notion of genetic predisposition for other traits? Is it always all or nothing for you? If the genes are there then the trait is manifest and if it's not manifest then the genes were not there -- is that how you see it no matter what condition is being discussed?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

She really doesn't. The twin studies vary on methodology way too much to use them to prove anything other than the fact that homosexuality is not genetic.

Gay Men in Twin Study - NYTimes.com

Study after study, for decades now. Being gay is a normal variant, as is skin color, eye color, height and facial features; nothing abnormal.

If homosexuality was genetic every single pair of identical twins would be either straight/straight or gay/gay, they aren't. That means that it is not just like skin color, eye color, height, and facial features, all of which are clearly genetic and manifest identically in identical twins.

That does not mean I am saying being homosexual is abnormal, anymore than being a Hindu is abnormal.

 

[Douger]

Nithe, wiwwy nithe thwead..

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The science:

NIH study links sexuality to genetic factor

It is a trait(.)

There is no gay gene.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Gay Men in Twin Study - NYTimes.com

The Baley Pillard study is one of the worst for methodology. There was no actually testing of the zygots, everything was based solely on answers to questions. It did not include any twins who were raised apart. It also self selected for participants who were open with their family by only advertising in publications that were friendly to homosexuals.

Like I said, you really don't have anything to back it up.

Oh really?

Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Really, there is nothing at Wiki to contradict my criticism of the Bailey Pillard study.

 

[Amelia]

Gay Men in Twin Study - NYTimes.com

Study after study, for decades now. Being gay is a normal variant, as is skin color, eye color, height and facial features; nothing abnormal.

If homosexuality was genetic every single pair of identical twins would be either straight/straight or gay/gay, they aren't. That means that it is not just like skin color, eye color, height, and facial features, all of which are clearly genetic and manifest identically in identical twins.

That does not mean I am saying being homosexual is abnormal, anymore than being a Hindu is abnormal.

I don't think identical twins are as identical as you think they are. Height in particular comes to mind as a trait where variation can be expected.

Again, the notion of genetic predisposition is key. A genetic predisposition doesn't guarantee a trait will be manifest. It's just a contributor which other conditions could trigger or suppress.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The Baley Pinard study is one of the worst for methodology. There was no actually testing of the zygots, everything was based solely on answers to questions. It did not include any twins who were raised apart. It also self selected for participants who were open with their family by only advertising in publications that were friendly to homosexuals.

Like I said, you really don't have anything to back it up.

Oh really?

Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Odd how gio can write of the genetic predisposition toward addiction, not everyone accepts alcohol & drug addiction have genetic links. Perhaps addicts just have low morals. And of course schizophrenia is caused by mean mothers......

For the hetero "choice" crowd: When did you CHOOSE to be heterosexual?

Summer of 1968, why do you ask?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not completely genetic...but kindly explain why if one identical twin is gay, there is about a 50% chance that the other one is.....even if they are raised apart.

I don't have to explain anything. If it was genetic in origin both twins would be gay no matter what. That is conclusive proof that it isn't genetic, and ends any debate about it on that level.

Peach already mentioned this, but it bears repeating: your logic would rule out genetics being a contributor to schizophrenia, etc.


Do you reject the notion of genetic predisposition for other traits? Is it always all or nothing for you? If the genes are there then the trait is manifest and if it's not manifest then the genes were not there -- is that how you see it no matter what condition is being discussed?

It isn't my logic, it is science. If something is a genetic trait it will always manifest identically in identical twins because they have identical genetics. There are no identical twins where one is a blue eyed blonde girl and the other is a brown eyed black haired boy.

Not only does it not happen, it cannot happen.

I am not aware of any twin studies on schizophrenia, so I have no comment on it being genetic.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Study after study, for decades now. Being gay is a normal variant, as is skin color, eye color, height and facial features; nothing abnormal.

If homosexuality was genetic every single pair of identical twins would be either straight/straight or gay/gay, they aren't. That means that it is not just like skin color, eye color, height, and facial features, all of which are clearly genetic and manifest identically in identical twins.

That does not mean I am saying being homosexual is abnormal, anymore than being a Hindu is abnormal.

I don't think identical twins are as identical as you think they are. Height in particular comes to mind as a trait where variation can be expected.

Again, the notion of genetic predisposition is key. A genetic predisposition doesn't guarantee a trait will be manifest. It's just a contributor which other conditions could trigger or suppress.

Identical twins have identical genes. Height can change as a result of one twin experiencing a childhood illness that affects development, but that would make homosexuality a side affect of a disease. which I am pretty sure is not your position.