Fort Fun Indiana
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- Mar 10, 2017
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In the Trump business records he filed.
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Post Any Evidence you are Aware of that Donald Trump Falsified Business Records to Conceal a Crime
- Thread starter Seymour Flops
- Start date
para bellum
Platinum Member
What records? What about them is false?In the Trump business records he filed.
All I see is some checks. They look real to me.
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #183
I said "near pathological" so don't lie about what I said.Mr. Cohen has never been accused of being a "pathological" liar, but Mr. Trump has been - on multiple occasions.
Mr's Trump's CFO -- plead guilty to two felony counts of perjury. Now in prison.
Cohen was convicted of making a false statement to a bank, and he pled guilty to lying under oath to the Senate Inteligence Committee. Democrats in the House still used him as a fact witness. That says all that needs be said about Democrats' concern for the truth in going after Trump.
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #184
It's about exactly what I said it is about, because I quoted directly from the indikement.We get that's what you want the case to be about, but in the real world there are multiple aspects to the case.
#1 Showing that FPOTUS#45 entered into a scheme to falsify business records.
#2 However there is another aspect to the case which is what raises it to a felony. That is an attempt to commit or hide/aid in another crime. Kind of hard to show #2 without discussing the other crime that is used as the enhancement.
WW
View attachment 935753
If Bragg has since changed it, you'd be right.
Has he?
What was the crime that the false entries that Trump allegedly made and caused were intended to cover?
It's about exactly what I said it is about, because I quoted directly from the indikement.
Then you will agree, there are two parts:
- The falsification, and
- The other crime that was intended to be committed or for which there was an attempt to hide/aid.
If Bragg has since changed it, you'd be right.
Has he?
No change needed, both elements are right there.
What was the crime that the false entries that Trump allegedly made and caused were intended to cover?
That will be explained at trial, as was discussed add nauseum the prosecution is not required to list the enhancement crime in the indictment.
However the DA also filed a companion document with the indictment called a "Statement of Facts" which supports the indictment.
A reasonable person can clearly see that the enhancement crime involves Cohen's conviction in Federal Court for campaign finance fraud.
WW
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para bellum
Platinum Member
Some years back NASA lost a satellite because the explosive bolts deformed instead of shearing. They traced the material back to SAPA profiles in Portland. SAPA had certified the material without actually performing the tests.
I got caught up in that mess. Some of that material made it to my shop, and I made aerospace parts from it. I had to go back and pull my files on every invoice, and check the certs on the material I used against the batches that had the false certs.
Fortunately none of the material that I had bought in those years was part of the untested material. It would have de-certified my parts and grounded the aircraft until new parts could be made.
SAPA was charged, and de-certified for government aerospace contracts over it.
I understood the crime that SAPA did. They were supposed to test material and provide the mill test reports. They provided false reports on material that was not tested.
I do not see any falsification of records in the Trump charges. He wrote checks, the checks were good. They were payments to Cohen and were recorded as legal expenses.
I don't know how else it should be done?
NDA's aren't illegal.
The payments to Cohen were legitimate checks pursuant to the NDA. They were properly recorded as legal expenses, AFAIK.
It's not illegal for a candidate to suppress negative publicity. The DA can sensationalize it with a catchy phrase like "capture and kill", but it doesn't make it illegal.
The only person who was ever charged was Cohen with the excessive campaign contribution, and that was a plea deal to avoid a long prison sentence on the bank fraud charge.
The National Enquirer was never charged with anything- they were parties to the arrangement.
The WA Post story about Hunter's laptop was discredited and suppressed before the election to protect Biden, no one was charged with anything there...
Why can't anyone describe the "falsification of business records" and tell us what the "correct business record" would have looked like?
I got caught up in that mess. Some of that material made it to my shop, and I made aerospace parts from it. I had to go back and pull my files on every invoice, and check the certs on the material I used against the batches that had the false certs.
Fortunately none of the material that I had bought in those years was part of the untested material. It would have de-certified my parts and grounded the aircraft until new parts could be made.
SAPA was charged, and de-certified for government aerospace contracts over it.
I understood the crime that SAPA did. They were supposed to test material and provide the mill test reports. They provided false reports on material that was not tested.
I do not see any falsification of records in the Trump charges. He wrote checks, the checks were good. They were payments to Cohen and were recorded as legal expenses.
I don't know how else it should be done?
NDA's aren't illegal.
The payments to Cohen were legitimate checks pursuant to the NDA. They were properly recorded as legal expenses, AFAIK.
It's not illegal for a candidate to suppress negative publicity. The DA can sensationalize it with a catchy phrase like "capture and kill", but it doesn't make it illegal.
The only person who was ever charged was Cohen with the excessive campaign contribution, and that was a plea deal to avoid a long prison sentence on the bank fraud charge.
The National Enquirer was never charged with anything- they were parties to the arrangement.
The WA Post story about Hunter's laptop was discredited and suppressed before the election to protect Biden, no one was charged with anything there...
Why can't anyone describe the "falsification of business records" and tell us what the "correct business record" would have looked like?
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #187
Yes, you are paraphrasing the indikement well. But for some reason you leave out that it was the defendant who is accused of doing that. It doesn't say that he asked someone else to do it.View attachment 935784
Then you will agree, there are two parts:
- The falsification, and
- The other crime that was intended to be committed or for which there was an attempt to hide/aid.
Good luck proving that Trump did that. Even better luck proving that his intent was to conceal a crime without naming the crime.
I'll say this for Bragg. He's keeping his mouthshut about this BS case. I attribute that to his being a Harvard man. He hates to think that acting this inappropriately will cause people to think that he only made it to Harvard due to DEI.No change needed, both elements are right there.
That will be explained at trial, as was discussed add nauseum the prosecution is not required to list the enhancement crime in the indictment.
What do you mean "clearly see?" Is that what the Statement of Facts says was the enhancement crime?However the DA also filed a companion document with the indictment called a "Statement of Facts" which supports the indictment.
A reasonable person can clearly see that the enhancement crime involves Cohen's conviction in Federal Court for campaign finance fraud.
WW
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Has there ever been a case in which a person was convicted under this enhanced charge for covering a crime by somebody else?
Thank you for the link. No, it does not say that the enhancement crime was Michael Cohen's campaign finance fraud. It says:
As you can see, it states "to disguise his and other's criminal conduct." It doesn't specify what conduct anywhere.
That the crime was campaign fincance fraud may be what he eventually argues, but clearly he is afraid to say it openly before he gets what he wants, which is the pre-election trial.
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #188
I should probably start a thread titled "The Many Lies of Michael Cohen," but I'll take a chance on this one being derailed, since it's going in circles anyway.
I'll just post examples here:
Judge Jesse M. Furman in Manhattan questioned Cohen’s truthfulness in a written order denying his request for early release from the court supervision that followed his three-year prison sentence for crimes including tax evasion, lying to banks and Congress, and violating campaign finance laws.
Furman cited Cohen’s testimony at Trump’s civil fraud trial in a Manhattan state court last October. On the witness stand, Cohen insisted he wasn’t actually guilty of tax evasion even though he pleaded guilty to the charge in 2018. Asked if he had lied to the federal judge who accepted his guilty plea, Cohen said, “Yes.”
“Cohen repeatedly and unambiguously testified at the state court trial that he was not guilty of tax evasion and that he had lied under oath” to the late Judge William H. Pauley III, Furman wrote.
If he is in the habit of pleading guilty to crimes of which he is not actually guilty, then it would be silly for Bragg to use a crime that Cohen pleaded guilty to as the reason for the enhanced charge that beat the statute of limitations for falsification of business records.
I'll just post examples here:
Judge Jesse M. Furman in Manhattan questioned Cohen’s truthfulness in a written order denying his request for early release from the court supervision that followed his three-year prison sentence for crimes including tax evasion, lying to banks and Congress, and violating campaign finance laws.
Furman cited Cohen’s testimony at Trump’s civil fraud trial in a Manhattan state court last October. On the witness stand, Cohen insisted he wasn’t actually guilty of tax evasion even though he pleaded guilty to the charge in 2018. Asked if he had lied to the federal judge who accepted his guilty plea, Cohen said, “Yes.”
“Cohen repeatedly and unambiguously testified at the state court trial that he was not guilty of tax evasion and that he had lied under oath” to the late Judge William H. Pauley III, Furman wrote.
If he is in the habit of pleading guilty to crimes of which he is not actually guilty, then it would be silly for Bragg to use a crime that Cohen pleaded guilty to as the reason for the enhanced charge that beat the statute of limitations for falsification of business records.
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #189
Michael Cohen will not face sanctions after generating fake cases with AI
NEW YORK, March 20 (Reuters) - A federal judge on Wednesday declined to sanction Michael Cohen, the former fixer for Donald Trump, for mistakenly giving his lawyer fake case citations generated by artificial intelligence, calling the episode "embarrassing."U.S. District Judge Jesse Furman in Manhattan also refused to end court-supervised release for Cohen, who pleaded guilty in 2018 to campaign finance violations and tax evasion and served time in prison, and suggested Cohen may have perjured himself.
Furman's decision came as Cohen prepares to be a star witness against Trump in the former president's upcoming criminal trial in Manhattan.
He lies so much that they cannot even punish him for all of them.
Good God, Y'all!
Fake citations generated by AI and he gave them to his own attorney? By Allah! He's inventing new ways to lie that take advantage of the latest technology. Has anyone heard of anyone else doing something like that.
para bellum
Platinum Member
And he doesn't even call it a crime, he calls it a "scheme".As you can see, it states "to disguise his and other's criminal conduct." It doesn't specify what conduct anywhere.
"From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects. In order to execute the unlawful scheme, the participants violated election laws and made and caused false entries in the business records of various entities in New York. The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of the scheme."
He calls it an "unlawful scheme" but does not say what law it is breaking.
He doesn't say the campaign contribution violation or the payments were the crime or the scheme- he says they were done "in order to execute the scheme".
Suppressing negative information about a political candidate is a crime?
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #191
Michael Cohen: Trump did not ‘directly’ tell me to lie to Congress about Moscow project
Michael Cohen: Trump did not ‘directly’ tell me to lie to Congress about Moscow project
Michael Cohen provided a detailed account of a crucial and disputed element of his business dealings with President Trump in his testimony before the House Oversight Committee on Wednesday. Cohen, who was Trump’s longtime personal attorney and an executive at the president’s real estate company...
This is how I expect Cohen's testimony and likely others in the Manhatten case to work:
WASHINGTON — Michael Cohen provided a detailed account of a crucial and disputed element of his business dealings with President Trump in his testimony before the House Oversight Committee on Wednesday. Cohen, who was Trump’s longtime personal attorney and an executive at the president’s real estate company up until he took office, said Trump did not explicitly tell him to lie to Congress about the scope of their efforts to build a skyscraper in Moscow.
“I lied to Congress [about] when Mr. Trump stopped negotiating the Moscow tower project in Russia. I stated that we stopped negotiating in January of 2016. That was false. Our negotiations continued for months later during the campaign. Mr. Trump did not directly tell me to lie to Congress. That’s not how he operates,” he said.
Cohen went on to say Trump “made clear” that he wanted Cohen to lie about the timing of the project without directly saying so. Cohen noted that Trump regularly — and falsely — said he had no business dealings in Russia both during personal conversations in 2016 and in appearances on the campaign trail.
We saw this in the Ukraine Phone Call Impeachment. Several witnesses testifying that they somehow knew what Trump wanted - a quid pro-quo, for American aid - without him or anyone else telling them. The only witness who had actually spoken to Trump said Trump said emphatically and unprompted "I don't want anything, no quid pro quo."
Cohen and the others may testify in a similar manner - that they knew Trump wanted somebody to falsify a record, even though he never said that.
It didn't work for an impeachment and it won't work for this indikement. This time it will be worse because it will be a liar telling us that he knew Trump wanted him to lie. How will we ever know whether Cohen is lying and how many times he will recant his lies.
Has he ever lied when he recanted a statement? Probably, but how would we know?
Cougarbear
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Commie butthead <yawn>Conspiracy crackpot
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once again..Michael Cohen: Trump did not ‘directly’ tell me to lie to Congress about Moscow project
Michael Cohen: Trump did not ‘directly’ tell me to lie to Congress about Moscow project
Michael Cohen provided a detailed account of a crucial and disputed element of his business dealings with President Trump in his testimony before the House Oversight Committee on Wednesday. Cohen, who was Trump’s longtime personal attorney and an executive at the president’s real estate company...news.yahoo.com
This is how I expect Cohen's testimony and likely others in the Manhatten case to work:
WASHINGTON — Michael Cohen provided a detailed account of a crucial and disputed element of his business dealings with President Trump in his testimony before the House Oversight Committee on Wednesday. Cohen, who was Trump’s longtime personal attorney and an executive at the president’s real estate company up until he took office, said Trump did not explicitly tell him to lie to Congress about the scope of their efforts to build a skyscraper in Moscow.
“I lied to Congress [about] when Mr. Trump stopped negotiating the Moscow tower project in Russia. I stated that we stopped negotiating in January of 2016. That was false. Our negotiations continued for months later during the campaign. Mr. Trump did not directly tell me to lie to Congress. That’s not how he operates,” he said.
Cohen went on to say Trump “made clear” that he wanted Cohen to lie about the timing of the project without directly saying so. Cohen noted that Trump regularly — and falsely — said he had no business dealings in Russia both during personal conversations in 2016 and in appearances on the campaign trail.
We saw this in the Ukraine Phone Call Impeachment. Several witnesses testifying that they somehow knew what Trump wanted - a quid pro-quo, for American aid - without him or anyone else telling them. The only witness who had actually spoken to Trump said Trump said emphatically and unprompted "I don't want anything, no quid pro quo."
Cohen and the others may testify in a similar manner - that they knew Trump wanted somebody to falsify a record, even though he never said that.
It didn't work for an impeachment and it won't work for this indikement. This time it will be worse because it will be a liar telling us that he knew Trump wanted him to lie. How will we ever know whether Cohen is lying and how many times he will recant his lies.
Has he ever lied when he recanted a statement? Probably, but how would we know?
Cohen lying to protect Trump
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #194
He lied plenty of times when it had nothing to do with Trump.once again..
Cohen lying to protect Trump
In order to protect Trump -- to take the bullet for him?I said "near pathological" so don't lie about what I said.
Cohen was convicted of making a false statement to a bank, and he pled guilty to lying under oath to the Senate Inteligence Committee. Democrats in the House still used him as a fact witness. That says all that needs be said about Democrats' concern for the truth in going after Trump.
Trump's longtime personal lawyer and "fixer"?????????????????????????
"I'm the guy who would take a bullet for" Trump, Cohen told Vanity Fair in 2017.
Fort Fun Indiana
Diamond Member
- Mar 10, 2017
- 92,879
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Check the indictment. We don't have special access to information that you cannot access.What records? What about them is false?
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #197
He lied to the bank for his own purpose with nothing to do with Trump.In order to protect Trump -- to take the bullet for him?
Trump's longtime personal lawyer and "fixer"?????????????????????????
"I'm the guy who would take a bullet for" Trump, Cohen told Vanity Fair in 2017.
He lied to Vanity Fair about being loyal to Trump. Cohen is loyal to no one but Cohen. He’s a pathetic liar who blames Trump for his own misdeeds.
Fort Fun Indiana
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- Mar 10, 2017
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All nonsenseHe lied to the bank for his own purpose with nothing to do with Trump.
He lied to Vanity Fair about being loyal to Trump. Cohen is loyal to no one but Cohen. He’s a pathetic liar who blames Trump for his own misdeeds.
Cohen was loyal to the orange slob, until the orange slob threw him under the bus. Chen even went to prison for lying to Congress to protect trump.
Every post by you is a steaming pile of bullshit.
Rawley
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- Sep 8, 2014
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He will be destroyed on cross. CLose to unimaginable that this is FatFuck Bragg's star witness.Cohen will be caught lying in cross examination. He can’t help himself.
It’s almost unbelievable that they’ll use a known liar as a witness.
He will be destroyed on cross. CLose to unimaginable that this is FatFuck Bragg's star witness.
Interesting, DA star witness not even called first.
WW
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