Americas Constitutions point towards Christianity

[JakeStarkey]

If the point of the thread is to state by inference via the material provided, that we are a Christian Nation, that is not true. We are not a Christian Nation. We are a nation that has many Christians in it. There is a big difference between the two.

Many of our founding fathers had a belief in God, whatever that was for them. However, that does not change the fact that from a Constitution standpoint, we are not a Christian Nation.

I watched a movie a little while ago (today) that had a lot to say about what is happening regarding opinions on the relationship of the nation to Christianity.

Some say, "We are a Christian Nation" meaning that we are a nation which is governed by Christian principles.

Some say "we are a nation that was founded upon Christian principles" Meaning that laws, and government are not based upon Christian controls, but are certainly formed because of Christian principles.

In the movie statements like, We have become a nation who reads the Word of God, but doesn't honor the God of the Word. It also said that today's morals are less than God would have allowed, but the people have been blinded by the fact that the high moral standards no longer have the authority of God. God has been removed from all media, and all government places, so His influence has been lost. Morals have fallen to their lowest ever because of that. Morals of God are OK, but the God of morals is not allowed anymore.

Remind me who prayed at President Obama's inauguration and to which God did he pray?

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

If the point of the thread is to state by inference via the material provided, that we are a Christian Nation, that is not true. We are not a Christian Nation. We are a nation that has many Christians in it. There is a big difference between the two.

Many of our founding fathers had a belief in God, whatever that was for them. However, that does not change the fact that from a Constitution standpoint, we are not a Christian Nation.

I watched a movie a little while ago (today) that had a lot to say about what is happening regarding opinions on the relationship of the nation to Christianity.

Some say, "We are a Christian Nation" meaning that we are a nation which is governed by Christian principles.

Some say "we are a nation that was founded upon Christian principles" Meaning that laws, and government are not based upon Christian controls, but are certainly formed because of Christian principles.

In the movie statements like, We have become a nation who reads the Word of God, but doesn't honor the God of the Word. It also said that today's morals are less than God would have allowed, but the people have been blinded by the fact that the high moral standards no longer have the authority of God. God has been removed from all media, and all government places, so His influence has been lost. Morals have fallen to their lowest ever because of that. Morals of God are OK, but the God of morals is not allowed anymore.

I believe that this nation ( as a whole ) has taken a nose dive as it were, when it comes to morals. I am not against open expression of faith. At the same time, I don't think that that in and of itself would make much difference. A lot of people state they are believers etc, and live their life as if they were in a pig pen.

I am of the belief, that it is not the government's place to dictate and try to legislate morality from a religious aspect. I recognize that on some level, there must be laws to govern ourselves by, lest we fall into the mire of Anarchy.

A love for God, or whatever belief system one wishes to use if any, must come from inside the individual and radiate outwardly. In order to make a difference, one must do their best to walk the walk, and not just talk about it, in my opinion. That is the kind of leadership that employers ( which we are ) should have.

If a person is not religious, that is fine. They can live their life as they wish, so long as it doesn't violate my constitutional rights. Once that happens, we have a problem.

There is a political segment today, that wants to assert itself in an authoritarian manner against the citizenry, in order to achieve religious and political goals. I take umbrage with that kind of philosophy.

 

[goldcatt]

If the point of the thread is to state by inference via the material provided, that we are a Christian Nation, that is not true. We are not a Christian Nation. We are a nation that has many Christians in it. There is a big difference between the two.

Many of our founding fathers had a belief in God, whatever that was for them. However, that does not change the fact that from a Constitution standpoint, we are not a Christian Nation.

I watched a movie a little while ago (today) that had a lot to say about what is happening regarding opinions on the relationship of the nation to Christianity.

Some say, "We are a Christian Nation" meaning that we are a nation which is governed by Christian principles.

Some say "we are a nation that was founded upon Christian principles" Meaning that laws, and government are not based upon Christian controls, but are certainly formed because of Christian principles.

In the movie statements like, We have become a nation who reads the Word of God, but doesn't honor the God of the Word. It also said that today's morals are less than God would have allowed, but the people have been blinded by the fact that the high moral standards no longer have the authority of God. God has been removed from all media, and all government places, so His influence has been lost. Morals have fallen to their lowest ever because of that. Morals of God are OK, but the God of morals is not allowed anymore.

I believe that this nation ( as a whole ) has taken a nose dive as it were, when it comes to morals. I am not against open expression of faith. At the same time, I don't think that that in and of itself would make much difference. A lot of people state they are believers etc, and live their life as if they were in a pig pen.

I am of the belief, that it is not the government's place to dictate and try to legislate morality from a religious aspect. I recognize that on some level, there must be laws to govern ourselves by, lest we fall into the mire of Anarchy.

A love for God, or whatever belief system one wishes to use if any, must come from inside the individual and radiate outwardly. In order to make a difference, one must do their best to walk the walk, and not just talk about it, in my opinion. That is the kind of leadership that employers ( which we are ) should have.

If a person is not religious, that is fine. They can live their life as they wish, so long as it doesn't violate my constitutional rights. Once that happens, we have a problem.

There is a political segment today, that wants to assert itself in an authoritarian manner against the citizenry, in order to achieve religious and political goals. I take umbrage with that kind of philosophy.

Very, very nice!
Can't rep you again so soon, sorry! I must have been pretty stingy so far today.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Actually, are nation was founded on one single concept, an easy one, one that few people support these days:

Freedom

Freedom endowed by our Creator.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

No Creator no Freedom

The Founders, with the possible exceptions of Thomas Paine and Ethan Allen, would agree that Nature's God (a deistic term) is the originator of man's inalienable freedom, but you aren't going to find them as a group at the Declaration of Independence or the Constitutional Convention endorsing this nation as one founded by Jesus Christ.

I think they would agree that the moral principles come from the ethics of the Greco-Roman classic civilization as well as the moral principles of Judeo-Christian belief.

You will have a very hard time trying to build that into a "Nation of Christians" argument.

 

[rdean]

Do you honestly believe a speech by a grandstanding modern congresscritter, a motto dating to McCarthyhism and meant to distinguish us from the atheistic Soviets and a phrase of common formal usage in the late eighteenth century estabishes Christianity as the national religion above the plain language of the functional portions of the Constitution?

No I honestly don't believe that it was meant to establish Christianity as the national religion. Nor do I believe that your babble proves otherwise.

We are not a Christian nation to force religion down anyones throat rather the founders felt that the reason Christianity would stand against all other reasoning as long as freedom of religion was protected. That is why athiests are trying to remove any mention of Christianity from this country.

No one is trying to remove any mention of Christianity. Why do the religious say that? Is their faith so weak that they want to flaunt it in front of everybody and make them look at it? It seems as if they are saying, "If I can't force you to confront my mysticism, then you are taking away my religious freedom".

Look at it this way. If I said witches with pointed hats were real and I wanted to put up broomsticks and pointed hats in national court houses. Now don't tell me witches aren't real. The Bible references witches many times. They must be real. i saw a video of Sarah Palin receiving spells of magical protection against witchcraft in the name of Jesus.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl4HIc-yfgM]YouTube - Sarah Palin Gets Protection From Witches[/ame]

Now, I don't know anyone who was ever actually hurt by a witch. I do know people who have been harmed in the name of Jesus. Why push Christianity and not witchcraft. We know the followers of Jesus believe that witchcraft is real. It is real, right?

And there lies the problem. Of course no Christian wants to put up images of witches. Only the extremely far right even believes there is any such thing as witchcraft. That is the problem with atheists. They have no mystical beliefs, not religion, not witchcraft.

And what is worse, many Christians want to "teach the controversy" in public schools. Or they want to somehow "stop" gays from their "agenda" of equal rights. For Christians, gays having equal rights is an insult to their religion. Most don't even know any gays, but somehow, their religion is being stepped on.

Do I see any resolution soon? No. The only out I see is that the religious overstep and go so far to push their religion on the rest of us, that so many people just turn their backs on religion and walk away.

Therein lies the danger. People who believe they are so right, will violently "force" their viewpoint on others because it's what God wants. We are seeing it now in Iran. The entire revolution is about people wanting less religion in government.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I watched a movie a little while ago (today) that had a lot to say about what is happening regarding opinions on the relationship of the nation to Christianity.

Some say, "We are a Christian Nation" meaning that we are a nation which is governed by Christian principles.

Some say "we are a nation that was founded upon Christian principles" Meaning that laws, and government are not based upon Christian controls, but are certainly formed because of Christian principles.

In the movie statements like, We have become a nation who reads the Word of God, but doesn't honor the God of the Word. It also said that today's morals are less than God would have allowed, but the people have been blinded by the fact that the high moral standards no longer have the authority of God. God has been removed from all media, and all government places, so His influence has been lost. Morals have fallen to their lowest ever because of that. Morals of God are OK, but the God of morals is not allowed anymore.

I believe that this nation ( as a whole ) has taken a nose dive as it were, when it comes to morals. I am not against open expression of faith. At the same time, I don't think that that in and of itself would make much difference. A lot of people state they are believers etc, and live their life as if they were in a pig pen.

I am of the belief, that it is not the government's place to dictate and try to legislate morality from a religious aspect. I recognize that on some level, there must be laws to govern ourselves by, lest we fall into the mire of Anarchy.

A love for God, or whatever belief system one wishes to use if any, must come from inside the individual and radiate outwardly. In order to make a difference, one must do their best to walk the walk, and not just talk about it, in my opinion. That is the kind of leadership that employers ( which we are ) should have.

If a person is not religious, that is fine. They can live their life as they wish, so long as it doesn't violate my constitutional rights. Once that happens, we have a problem.

There is a political segment today, that wants to assert itself in an authoritarian manner against the citizenry, in order to achieve religious and political goals. I take umbrage with that kind of philosophy.

Very, very nice!
Can't rep you again so soon, sorry! I must have been pretty stingy so far today.

However, I can and did.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

I watched a movie a little while ago (today) that had a lot to say about what is happening regarding opinions on the relationship of the nation to Christianity.

Some say, "We are a Christian Nation" meaning that we are a nation which is governed by Christian principles.

Some say "we are a nation that was founded upon Christian principles" Meaning that laws, and government are not based upon Christian controls, but are certainly formed because of Christian principles.

In the movie statements like, We have become a nation who reads the Word of God, but doesn't honor the God of the Word. It also said that today's morals are less than God would have allowed, but the people have been blinded by the fact that the high moral standards no longer have the authority of God. God has been removed from all media, and all government places, so His influence has been lost. Morals have fallen to their lowest ever because of that. Morals of God are OK, but the God of morals is not allowed anymore.

I believe that this nation ( as a whole ) has taken a nose dive as it were, when it comes to morals. I am not against open expression of faith. At the same time, I don't think that that in and of itself would make much difference. A lot of people state they are believers etc, and live their life as if they were in a pig pen.

I am of the belief, that it is not the government's place to dictate and try to legislate morality from a religious aspect. I recognize that on some level, there must be laws to govern ourselves by, lest we fall into the mire of Anarchy.

A love for God, or whatever belief system one wishes to use if any, must come from inside the individual and radiate outwardly. In order to make a difference, one must do their best to walk the walk, and not just talk about it, in my opinion. That is the kind of leadership that employers ( which we are ) should have.

If a person is not religious, that is fine. They can live their life as they wish, so long as it doesn't violate my constitutional rights. Once that happens, we have a problem.

There is a political segment today, that wants to assert itself in an authoritarian manner against the citizenry, in order to achieve religious and political goals. I take umbrage with that kind of philosophy.

Very, very nice!
Can't rep you again so soon, sorry! I must have been pretty stingy so far today.

Thank you kindly. That is twice today we have agreed. lol I don't think we are ever going to agree on incorporation, but we can keep chipping away.

The BGG charm is strong.

 

[dreadpiratetom]

Article 6 Paragraph 2 of the US Constitution

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."

This is known as the federal supremacy clause. It subordinates state laws including their constitutions to the US Constitution.

Which is how a state constitution can be unconstitutional.

See also the 14th Amendment:

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States"

 

[goldcatt]

No I honestly don't believe that it was meant to establish Christianity as the national religion. Nor do I believe that your babble proves otherwise.

We are not a Christian nation to force religion down anyones throat rather the founders felt that the reason Christianity would stand against all other reasoning as long as freedom of religion was protected. That is why athiests are trying to remove any mention of Christianity from this country.

No one is trying to remove any mention of Christianity. Why do the religious say that? Is their faith so weak that they want to flaunt it in front of everybody and make them look at it? It seems as if they are saying, "If I can't force you to confront my mysticism, then you are taking away my religious freedom".

Look at it this way. If I said witches with pointed hats were real and I wanted to put up broomsticks and pointed hats in national court houses. Now don't tell me witches aren't real. The Bible references witches many times. They must be real. i saw a video of Sarah Palin receiving spells of magical protection against witchcraft in the name of Jesus.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl4HIc-yfgM]YouTube - Sarah Palin Gets Protection From Witches[/ame]

Now, I don't know anyone who was ever actually hurt by a witch. I do know people who have been harmed in the name of Jesus. Why push Christianity and not witchcraft. We know the followers of Jesus believe that witchcraft is real. It is real, right?

And there lies the problem. Of course no Christian wants to put up images of witches. Only the extremely far right even believes there is any such thing as witchcraft. That is the problem with atheists. They have no mystical beliefs, not religion, not witchcraft.

And what is worse, many Christians want to "teach the controversy" in public schools. Or they want to somehow "stop" gays from their "agenda" of equal rights. For Christians, gays having equal rights is an insult to their religion. Most don't even know any gays, but somehow, their religion is being stepped on.

Do I see any resolution soon? No. The only out I see is that the religious overstep and go so far to push their religion on the rest of us, that so many people just turn their backs on religion and walk away.

Therein lies the danger. People who believe they are so right, will violently "force" their viewpoint on others because it's what God wants. We are seeing it now in Iran. The entire revolution is about people wanting less religion in government.

Think you got your quotes messed up there, rdean. That was The Light's post, not mine. Credit where credit is due.

 

[goldcatt]

I believe that this nation ( as a whole ) has taken a nose dive as it were, when it comes to morals. I am not against open expression of faith. At the same time, I don't think that that in and of itself would make much difference. A lot of people state they are believers etc, and live their life as if they were in a pig pen.

I am of the belief, that it is not the government's place to dictate and try to legislate morality from a religious aspect. I recognize that on some level, there must be laws to govern ourselves by, lest we fall into the mire of Anarchy.

A love for God, or whatever belief system one wishes to use if any, must come from inside the individual and radiate outwardly. In order to make a difference, one must do their best to walk the walk, and not just talk about it, in my opinion. That is the kind of leadership that employers ( which we are ) should have.

If a person is not religious, that is fine. They can live their life as they wish, so long as it doesn't violate my constitutional rights. Once that happens, we have a problem.

There is a political segment today, that wants to assert itself in an authoritarian manner against the citizenry, in order to achieve religious and political goals. I take umbrage with that kind of philosophy.

Very, very nice!
Can't rep you again so soon, sorry! I must have been pretty stingy so far today.

Thank you kindly. That is twice today we have agreed. lol I don't think we are ever going to agree on incorporation, but we can keep chipping away.

The BGG charm is strong.

Ice cream and cookies. Then we'll talk.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Very, very nice!
Can't rep you again so soon, sorry! I must have been pretty stingy so far today.

Thank you kindly. That is twice today we have agreed. lol I don't think we are ever going to agree on incorporation, but we can keep chipping away.

The BGG charm is strong.

Ice cream and cookies. Then we'll talk.

I can work with that kind of compromise.

 

[rdean]

One thing that gets me is when the religious say that because people aren't following religious "guidelines" they are somehow less "moral".

When people say, "Let's take Christian symbols off of court houses" the Christians become incensed, yet the same Christians have zero problem claiming that people who don't have the same occult beliefs they do are somehow "not moral". How many times have I heard Christians saying, "Without "God", what's to keep you from murder and rape?" To me, the person that asks that question is the dangerous one. The only thing keeping them from rape and murder is belief in the "supernatural"? How is that not scary?

Then the question comes up, "What should moral Christians do to those NOT "moral"?"

 

[goldcatt]

One thing that gets me is when the religious say that because people aren't following religious "guidelines" they are somehow less "moral".

When people say, "Let's take Christian symbols off of court houses" the Christians become incensed, yet the same Christians have zero problem claiming that people who don't have the same occult beliefs they do are somehow "not moral". How many times have I heard Christians saying, "Without "God", what's to keep you from murder and rape?" To me, the person that asks that question is the dangerous one. The only thing keeping them from rape and murder is belief in the "supernatural"? How is that not scary?

Then the question comes up, "What should moral Christians do to those NOT "moral"?"

Here's where we part ways. While I agree some Christians have the kind of attitude you describe, they are neither the majority nor anywhere close to the mainstream. They tend to be loud, but don't judge every Believer by what they yell. When you start saying "The Christians" this and "Religious people" that, you are lumping me together with them. Trust me, neither of us really appreciates it.

 

[goldcatt]

Thank you kindly. That is twice today we have agreed. lol I don't think we are ever going to agree on incorporation, but we can keep chipping away.

The BGG charm is strong.

Ice cream and cookies. Then we'll talk.

I can work with that kind of compromise.

I was thinking more along the lines of bribery, but compromise I can do.

 

[Father Time]

The U.S. constitution makes no reference to God or Jesus or christianity and has this nugget in article VI:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

 

[JenT]

Do you honestly believe a speech by a grandstanding modern congresscritter, a motto dating to McCarthyhism and meant to distinguish us from the atheistic Soviets and a phrase of common formal usage in the late eighteenth century estabishes Christianity as the national religion above the plain language of the functional portions of the Constitution?

No I honestly don't believe that it was meant to establish Christianity as the national religion. Nor do I believe that your babble proves otherwise.

We are not a Christian nation to force religion down anyones throat rather the founders felt that the reason Christianity would stand against all other reasoning as long as freedom of religion was protected. That is why athiests are trying to remove any mention of Christianity from this country.

No one is trying to remove any mention of Christianity. Why do the religious say that? Is their faith so weak that they want to flaunt it in front of everybody and make them look at it? It seems as if they are saying, "If I can't force you to confront my mysticism, then you are taking away my religious freedom".

Look at it this way. If I said witches with pointed hats were real and I wanted to put up broomsticks and pointed hats in national court houses. Now don't tell me witches aren't real. The Bible references witches many times. They must be real. i saw a video of Sarah Palin receiving spells of magical protection against witchcraft in the name of Jesus.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl4HIc-yfgM]YouTube - Sarah Palin Gets Protection From Witches[/ame]

Now, I don't know anyone who was ever actually hurt by a witch. I do know people who have been harmed in the name of Jesus. Why push Christianity and not witchcraft. We know the followers of Jesus believe that witchcraft is real. It is real, right?

And there lies the problem. Of course no Christian wants to put up images of witches. Only the extremely far right even believes there is any such thing as witchcraft. That is the problem with atheists. They have no mystical beliefs, not religion, not witchcraft.

And what is worse, many Christians want to "teach the controversy" in public schools. Or they want to somehow "stop" gays from their "agenda" of equal rights. For Christians, gays having equal rights is an insult to their religion. Most don't even know any gays, but somehow, their religion is being stepped on.

Do I see any resolution soon? No. The only out I see is that the religious overstep and go so far to push their religion on the rest of us, that so many people just turn their backs on religion and walk away.

Therein lies the danger. People who believe they are so right, will violently "force" their viewpoint on others because it's what God wants. We are seeing it now in Iran. The entire revolution is about people wanting less religion in government.

This is what amazes me. The whole concept of free will began with Adam and Eve in the Garden. It's why the Christian founders of this nation, an overwhelming majority, made sure that no one be forced to worship at a certain church or at a certain time etc etc etc. But that wasn't enough for atheists who started filing all kinds of lawsuits attempting to censor God. And now you are going to blame Judeo-Christianity for the tyranny of allah?

So many are determined to remove God but don't seem to realize it will be replaced, all kinds of groups are now fighting over what He will be replaced with.

Why do we never seem to realize we don't know what we've got 'til it's gone.

 

[JenT]

goooooooooooooooood night thanks for the chat

 

[John Lemmon]

The whole concept of free will began with Adam and Eve in the Garden.

Sorry, but you're wrong. That story was to teach all you fearing people that if you don't obey god, he'll kick your ass out of his garden. Some free will.

 

[jillian]

I think these are unconstitutional state laws, and Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the DoI, was agnostic to the point of writing his own bible.

These are not laws these are portions of the state constitutions. How can a constitution be unconstitutional?

because a state constitution can't contradict the federal constituton...

see... supremacy clause.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Federal law trumps state law. If a state law violates the U.S. Constitution, then the SC will find it unconstitutional. This is why Santa Fe ISD in Texas is always going to be in trouble with the feds. The administrators can't get through their heads that they don't decide what the law really means, but rather, they have to follow it.