Aborted fetus = Lucky bastard?

[AllieBaba]

Yes, since it's about belief.

 

[jillian]

Yes, since it's about belief.

No...it's about words in a book. That can certainly be discussed. What one believes those words to ultimately represent...THAT is about belief, but certainly doesn't keep a student of theology, even one who is an atheist, from studying the words.

In fact, as someone outside the argument, I can tell you that Shogun, while I disagree with his disrespect for the Christian religion (and he and I have discussed this), I think he has made the best and most specific use of the bible in his posts.

From a personal persepctive, I can tell you at least two places the bible has been mistranslated from the original hebrew. These errors in translation change the meaning of the work in subtle, but I believe meaningful, ways. Do I need to be a believer (I do believe in G-d... just not your version of him, btw) in order to teach such facts?

I don't think so.

 

[AllieBaba]

Yawn.

 

[jillian]

In other words, you have no reply....

no surprises. Silly moi giving you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[AllieBaba]

I've replied a thousand times. Hence the boredom.

 

[jillian]

BS...

inability to respond.... plain and simple.

but it's cool. carry on. makes me no nevermind.

 

[AllieBaba]

Read through the reams that have already been written. I get tired of being dragged through the same old same old.

 

[Shogun]

In other words, you have no reply....

no surprises. Silly moi giving you the benefit of the doubt.

that pretty much sums it up.

 

[Taomon]

Once again, where are the stats to back up the statement that abortion lessens the risk of child abuse. Better yet, where are the stats that support the assumption that it's better to be dead than in an unhappy family?

I can speak with as much authority about whether or not a child has a soul and when a child has one as you can. You're willing to risk a lot on the belief that "your" assumption that a child isn't really a child before it's born, and doesn't have a soul anyway. I'm not willing to take the risk.

I grew up in an abusive household. A day did not go by that I would not have welcomed death over that.

To this day, I wish I had never been born. Had I been given a choice, I would have been aborted or still born. But I was not given that choice.

You make assumptions that have ramifications on the lives of people who you will never meet nor will you most likely ever help...That is the aborted children you speak of. ou can put as much fire & brimstone in your rhetoric, but you cannot prove that death is not better than a life of neglect or abuse.

 

[AllieBaba]

What you're describing are symptoms of mental illness. Not a valid argument for abortion.

I don't think people with mental illnesses are necessarily the go-to people when it comes to making responsible decisions for OTHER ppl.

 

[Taomon]

I love it when people who scream from the rooftops that they don't believe think they have the authority to explain Christianity to me.

I do understand Christianity sir. I was born and raised a Christian. Some of those traditions are part of my core beliefs...along with Buddhism, Hinduism, socialism and so on.

Because I walked away does not make me lower than you. I walked away because of the hypocrisy, the brutality and the lack of tolerance.

If you want to be a Christian, more power to you. But don't sit there and tell me that you have been ordained by Christ to pass judgement on me because I do not adhere to your particular beliefs. I know the Bible and it does not give you that responsibility nor the right to judge anyone.

 

[AllieBaba]

I grew up in an abusive household. A day did not go by that I would not have welcomed death over that.

To this day, I wish I had never been born. Had I been given a choice, I would have been aborted or still born. But I was not given that choice.

You make assumptions that have ramifications on the lives of people who you will never meet nor will you most likely ever help...That is the aborted children you speak of. ou can put as much fire & brimstone in your rhetoric, but you cannot prove that death is not better than a life of neglect or abuse.

Not only that, but you're making the assumption that because YOU wish for death, everyone is like circumstances should be killed.

 

[AllieBaba]

I do understand Christianity sir. I was born and raised a Christian. Some of those traditions are part of my core beliefs...along with Buddhism, Hinduism, socialism and so on.

Because I walked away does not make me lower than you. I walked away because of the hypocrisy, the brutality and the lack of tolerance.

If you want to be a Christian, more power to you. But don't sit there and tell me that you have been ordained by Christ to pass judgement on me because I do not adhere to your particular beliefs. I know the Bible and it does not give you that responsibility nor the right to judge anyone.

1. I never said anyone was lower than me. That's your own bias.
2. I believe that when Christ returns I'll be passing judgment. I base that belief on the Bible. You have no right to tell me what to believe. If you don't believe it, that's your right. I have the right to believe it. You don't like it, don't get into theological discussions with Christians about their beliefs.
3. I know the bible, too. It does give me the responsibility and the right to judge. Different interpretations, both equally valid. Don't tell me what I can or can't think, kindly. And don't ask for my opinion then whine about it.

 

[Taomon]

What you're describing are symptoms of mental illness. Not a valid argument for abortion.

I don't think people with mental illnesses are necessarily the go-to people when it comes to making responsible decisions for OTHER ppl.

Based on what AllieBaba? You have proven that you are neither scientific or logical on any level. How can you speak about mental illness? You can't. Do you really think that a loving God would condemn a baby that was aborted just because it did not accept Jesus? Do you think that a loving God would condemn a person who commits suicide while in the blackest pits of despair?

 

[Shogun]

What you're describing are symptoms of mental illness. Not a valid argument for abortion.

I don't think people with mental illnesses are necessarily the go-to people when it comes to making responsible decisions for OTHER ppl.

people should take advice from you about as quickly as a kid should take an ice cream cone from a child predator, baba. Who the hell are you to interpret Taomon's post as a metal illness? I'm pretty sure he is much more aware of his circumstance than your nutty fucking ideology and confused half assed quasi-intellectualisms do.

 

[Taomon]

1. I never said anyone was lower than me. That's your own bias.
2. I believe that when Christ returns I'll be passing judgment. I base that belief on the Bible. You have no right to tell me what to believe. If you don't believe it, that's your right. I have the right to believe it. You don't like it, don't get into theological discussions with Christians about their beliefs.
3. I know the bible, too. It does give me the responsibility and the right to judge. Different interpretations, both equally valid. Don't tell me what I can or can't think, kindly.

No. You apparently do not know how to read at all. Please cite the passage that states that Christians will pass judgement after the second coming of Christ. I know you can't.

 

[Taomon]

people should take advice from you about as quickly as a kid should take an ice cream cone from a child predator, baba. Who the hell are you to interpret Taomon's post as a metal illness? I'm pretty sure he is much more aware of his circumstance than your nutty fucking ideology and confused half assed quasi-intellectualisms do.

He doesn't understand because he lacks empathy. He cannot put himself in another person's shoes. And what is lacking in Evangelical Christianity is empathy, compassion and tolerance. Any acts of charity and compassion seem to come with strings attached (become a believer or perish).

 

[AllieBaba]

I'm not giving advice, Shogun.

Read up on mental illness, Taomon.

My point is, I believe in giving the child a chance to make up his or her own mind. You believe in taking that right away, based upon your own personal bias.

I find it a little hard to swallow that while you believe in God, you also believe in abortion...and yet at the same time, apparently your belief in abortion is somehow hinging on the idea that babies killed in utero are going to heaven in droves...which means you think they have souls, which means you think you have the right to kill a person with a soul.

 

[Taomon]

I'm not giving advice, Shogun.

Read up on mental illness, Taomon.

My point is, I believe in giving the child a chance to make up his or her own mind. You believe in taking that right away, based upon your own personal bias.

I find it a little hard to swallow that while you believe in God, you also believe in abortion...and yet at the same time, apparently your belief in abortion is somehow hinging on the idea that babies killed in utero are going to heaven in droves...which means you think they have souls, which means you think you have the right to kill a person with a soul.

Actually, I believe in God. I love all people as much as I can. Some people make it more difficult than others and yes, I actually do hate some people.

Here is my take on abortion; I am against it for me. My wife and I have 5 children. It is obvious we do not go the abortion route...for us.

But I also believe that it is not up to you or I if any woman decides to get one. We cannot judge that person nor can we supercede her rights to her own body. By the way, I believe that suicide, prostitution and drug use should not be illegal for the very same reason. It is your body, your choice.

Regarding souls, neither you nor I know when a soul becomes attached (for lack of a better term) to the conjugated cells known as a fertilized egg, or fetus. We don't know when those cells or the fetus becomes human and has consciousness. For that reason, this argument over where a fetus goes when aborted is basically moot.

I cannot imagine a loving entity rejecting a dead fetus (if it has a soul) from entering heaven just because of some Evangelical interpretation of an archaic and misconstrued text.

But I do not think of God as a magic man in another dimension. God is all things (more like the Force - or the Universal Life Force, Chi, etc) and heaven is not a place...it is metaphysical.

Regarding mental illness, I have read up on that too. I have spent the last 35 years reading everything I could get my hands on. I understand mental illness, and despair is not mental illness. Depression is mental illness and the two are not the same. I would not be able to function if I were depressed.

 

[The_Hammer]

Not wanting to have been alive is pretty close to suicidal thinking. It's not good and isn't a mental frame work from which one should give advice on abortions as a whole. As an aside, I'm glad that you haven't decided to off yourself and are being a responsable father.

On the other hand, the problem I've always had with the abortion argument about "a womans right to choose" is that it's not extended to men who don't want to pay child support. Now this is coming from someone who's absent father never payed child support so I can only imagine how it might have helped me an me mum (I call it don't miss what you've never had syndrome). But I balk at the idea that the livelyhood of three people is suddenly given into the hands of one person.