Aborted fetus = Lucky bastard?

[AllieBaba]

Only a handful were sure. Not me, or anybody I know. Fewer than were sure all the computers in the world were going to crash.

I'm a good example to sinners (and we're all sinners). I show them how important it is to ignore peer pressure. And I don't stoop to your level, which is also a good example. I also show them that people who are saved are just as sinful as anyone else, and there's no difference between the unsaved and the saved other than faith in God and a desire to please Him. We all fall short.

However, we're not to cast pearls before swine etc. You've already heard the Word, and have not only rejected it, but have also made it your goal in life to hound, ridicule and attempt to intimidate those who do believe. Whether or not you're impressed by me really doesn't matter.

 

[Shogun]

Handfull my ass. You obviously don't remember the 80s and 90s. and no, it wasn't less than the amount who thought computers would crash. In fact, it wasn't even an original predection


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment


And no, you are about as much a good example to non-christians as a feeding bear is to veganism. Like I said, you've done nothing but reinforce every negative reputation of christianity. Cry, point fingers, make excuses, say stupid shit, warp scripture as much as you need to. Your posts speak for themselves.


By the way, stupid, if you never cast your pearls before swine then there would be no reason to tell swine about the message of your god. Trust me, no amount of rationalization will make you a better example than you already are not. Nor will it make you any less ignorant about the faith that you think you follow.

 

[BrianH]

Jesus accepted all believers, regardless of their past sins. That's not to say we should discount non-believers, or refuse to eat with them.

But Jesus was talking to believers, about believers. Yes, he had no problem with sin. We all sin. That's the point. You don't judge the sin in other non-believers, we all have it, and Jesus has paid the price. But this baloney about "JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED" is not, as non believers like to crow, about believers judging the unsaved. It's about believers judging each other. The bible specifically tells us that we are capable of judging non-believers, as we will be judges after the second coming.

Compassion is fine, and we're supposed to testify and spread the word. But when Jesus said cast not your pearls before swine, and don't give what is holy to dogs, he was talking about attempting to reason with non believers. Not recent believers who have a history, or people who have never heard the word, but those who have heard and chose to walk away.

It seems like you're taking the whole pearl and swine scripture (Something obviously less clear to interpret) and making it more valid than direct words that explain that you should not judge anyone, including non-believers. Just because they choose to walk away doesn't mean that you have the right by God to judge someone. There are more direct scriptures that address not judging. Someone can take many vague and hard to understand scriptures from the bible and apply it to a situation. Your scripture that your referring to is purely interpreted in a unconventional manner

Ever watched MadTV:BIBLEMAN!

If by the bible, it is the Christian's job to be a disciple of Christ, how could such a Christian be disciple to non-believers, and at the same time, judge them for their sin or non-belief?

This goes along with the whole, "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" scripture. People think they can get revenge on someone for doing something because it says so in the Bible--then they quote this scripture. They fail to quote the entire scripture that reads:

"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:38–39)

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't judge people by their sin, neither did Jesus.

We are expected to judge them by their unbelief, if they have been offered the opportunity of salvation and rejected it.

It's just secular arrogance that leads people to make the assumption that Jesus was talking ABOUT believers vs. unbelievers when he said judge not. We're supposed to turn the other cheek when we're persecuted, but he was directly referring to the ways the faithful treat each other.

Jesus had no problem calling an acorn a nut. He was pretty up front with his handling of the money changers at the temple. Nor did he waste time or energy trying to convert Pontius Pilate. Or Herod, when he went before them. At the same time, he maintained his assertions that he was the son of God. Regardless of how they laughed at him, or attempted to convince him to say otherwise.

We aren't expected to coddle those who reject Christ, or lie to them about their fate if they don't change their minds. It isn't un-Christian to tell people Christ is the only way to heaven (btw, still waiting for a citation that states "good people" can get to heaven without faith in Christ). It's not un-Christian to be a Christian. What an idiotic thing to insist...and yet I hear it all the time. "You're not a very good Christian if you believe people go to hell for not believing..." Whaaaaat? I mean, that pretty much is the definition of a Christian. "You're a stupid Christian if you believe in the Bible." Are you kidding me?

 

[Dr Grump]

You guys are funny. You think it's okay to kill babies, but not to think that babies who die don't have a chance at heaven. Which you don't believe in anyway.

Hypocrites.

No, we're asking YOU to back up YOUR assertion that foetuses should be allowed to be born so they have a choice as to whether they can go to heaven or not, but am wondering how a 1 week old baby with no cognitive ability that dies can make such a decision. You keep on avoiding the question by bobbing and weaving and not addressing the issue. Why? Simple. You can't.

 

[Shogun]

I don't judge people by their sin, neither did Jesus.

We are expected to judge them by their unbelief, if they have been offered the opportunity of salvation and rejected it.

It's just secular arrogance that leads people to make the assumption that Jesus was talking ABOUT believers vs. unbelievers when he said judge not. We're supposed to turn the other cheek when we're persecuted, but he was directly referring to the ways the faithful treat each other.

Jesus had no problem calling an acorn a nut. He was pretty up front with his handling of the money changers at the temple. Nor did he waste time or energy trying to convert Pontius Pilate. Or Herod, when he went before them. At the same time, he maintained his assertions that he was the son of God. Regardless of how they laughed at him, or attempted to convince him to say otherwise.

We aren't expected to coddle those who reject Christ, or lie to them about their fate if they don't change their minds. It isn't un-Christian to tell people Christ is the only way to heaven (btw, still waiting for a citation that states "good people" can get to heaven without faith in Christ). It's not un-Christian to be a Christian. What an idiotic thing to insist...and yet I hear it all the time. "You're not a very good Christian if you believe people go to hell for not believing..." Whaaaaat? I mean, that pretty much is the definition of a Christian. "You're a stupid Christian if you believe in the Bible." Are you kidding me?

the moneychangers at the temple were PHARISEE constructs, genius. he was correcting his temple NOT a bunch of non-believers. Good greif, did you even read the damn book?

one more glaring example baba.

 

[Dr Grump]

INor did he waste time or energy trying to convert Pontius Pilate. Or Herod, when he went before them

Convert them to what?? Judism? THere was no Christianity at the time of Jesus. He was Jewish, as was Herod. Do you even know what you are talking about??

 

[AllieBaba]

the moneychangers at the temple were PHARISEE constructs, genius. he was correcting his temple NOT a bunch of non-believers. Good greif, did you even read the damn book?

one more glaring example baba.

Sigh. Did Pharisees believe he was the son of God?

Nope.

Did he hold out his hand to the money changers and say, "Hey, come along with me, I know you don't think I'm the son of God, but let's talk ANYWAY."

Nope. He made a whip and whipped them out of the yard.

You're the one who said that Christians are expected to be all sweetness and light to those who refuse to accept Christ, to those who ridicule the Bible. You guys are the ones who are claiming that Jesus was talking about Christians behaving lovingly to those who reject Christ. Stick to your point and try not to get distracted.

Sure he was disciplining his church. And he did it by passing judgment on the corrupt and unsaved. Again, when he says to judge not your brother, he's talking about your brother IN CHRIST.

 

[BrianH]

I don't judge people by their sin, neither did Jesus.

We are expected to judge them by their unbelief, if they have been offered the opportunity of salvation and rejected it.

It's just secular arrogance that leads people to make the assumption that Jesus was talking ABOUT believers vs. unbelievers when he said judge not. We're supposed to turn the other cheek when we're persecuted, but he was directly referring to the ways the faithful treat each other.

Jesus had no problem calling an acorn a nut. He was pretty up front with his handling of the money changers at the temple. Nor did he waste time or energy trying to convert Pontius Pilate. Or Herod, when he went before them. At the same time, he maintained his assertions that he was the son of God. Regardless of how they laughed at him, or attempted to convince him to say otherwise.

We aren't expected to coddle those who reject Christ, or lie to them about their fate if they don't change their minds. It isn't un-Christian to tell people Christ is the only way to heaven (btw, still waiting for a citation that states "good people" can get to heaven without faith in Christ). It's not un-Christian to be a Christian. What an idiotic thing to insist...and yet I hear it all the time. "You're not a very good Christian if you believe people go to hell for not believing..." Whaaaaat? I mean, that pretty much is the definition of a Christian. "You're a stupid Christian if you believe in the Bible." Are you kidding me?

If you never throw your "pearl" to the swine, how can you expect non-believers to believe? So people get one chance to hear God and that's it? You offer to talk one time and they deny you, so they're going to hell? You have a very different "view" of Christianity than most. While I'm not particularly siding with the posters who insist on baraging my own faith with criticism (You know who you are ) I am apalled at some of the radical views that you take. I respect your opinion, but I can see where non-believers get a "certain perception" of the Christian faith.

Uh.....Pontus Pilate did not laugh at Jesus. He actually did not want to turn him over to the Jews. He even tried to compare Jesus to another Barabass (a murderer) cause he figured the jews would choose the murderer to be crucified. Pontus Pilate believed and voiced that he found no guilt in Jesus.

 

[jillian]

If you never throw your "pearl" to the swine, how can you expect non-believers to believe? So people get one chance to hear God and that's it? You offer to talk one time and they deny you, so they're going to hell? You have a very different "view" of Christianity than most. While I'm not particularly siding with the posters who insist on baraging my own faith with criticism (You know who you are ) I am apalled at some of the radical views that you take. I respect your opinion, but I can see where non-believers get a "certain perception" of the Christian faith.

Uh.....Pontus Pilate did not laugh at Jesus. He actually did not want to turn him over to the Jews. He even tried to compare Jesus to another Barabass (a murderer) cause he figured the jews would choose the murderer to be crucified. Pontus Pilate believed and voiced that he found no guilt in Jesus.

Pilate didn't "turn him over to the Jews"

Might be time to separate some of those nobler Christian beliefs from the chaff.

 

[BrianH]

Pilate didn't "turn him over to the Jews"

Might be time to separate some of those nobler Christian beliefs from the chaff.

I'm sorry, I jumbled it all together...he freed Barabass and turned him over to the Jews. Sorry for the mix up.

 

[frazzledgear]

If a fetus is a person, then logically he/she has a soul. And since he was never given the opportunity to commit a sin, his soul would remain unblemished and he'd be welcomed into heaven. So, if gaining entrance into heaven is what life is all about, then by all accounts an aborted fetus is one lucky bastard.


Just sayin...

I don't know, but maybe your mother should have tried it so you could see firsthand if you thought it was actually better deal for you than being so thoughtlessly "forced" to experience such a dreadful life you surely must have now. With that kind of comment -surely you find life a real burden to you, right?

The problem with your thinking is you ignore what it does to the unrepentant souls of those involved with killing that fetus while pretending that killing someone before they get to truly experience life -is somehow this "wonderful" thing. I could vomit. Life is a gift -and no one else has the "right" to take that gift away and then say -aw, the lucky bastard would have thanked me for killing him. Maybe you didn't know it -but the world has already experienced the belief that no human life has any value at all unless someone ELSE finds value in it. The opinion of the individual who actually OWNED that life was never consulted -because the belief was what they thought about the value of their own life was irrelevant. And we got millions and MILLIONS of slaughtered people for that belief - in case you didn't know. Perhaps the Nazis showed up just a few decades too soon, huh?

My life has value because it is MY life -period. My age is irrelevant -it is my life that matters and don't kid yourself that a living human fetus is a not living human. Ever seen a late term abortion? Maybe you should -and then come back and spew that kind of garbage about what a lucky bastard some kid was because a doctor stuck scissors in the base of his skull mere seconds before he drew his first breath and then vacuumed his brains out with the sole purpose of preventing him from drawing that first breath. And tell us all what a warm, tingly feeling you got while watching his death spasms. After all -the kid is going to heaven, right?

 

[Taomon]

I don't know, but maybe your mother should have tried it so you could see firsthand if you thought it was actually better deal for you than being so thoughtlessly "forced" to experience such a dreadful life you surely must have now. With that kind of comment -surely you find life a real burden to you, right?

The problem with your thinking is you ignore what it does to the unrepentant souls of those involved with killing that fetus while pretending that killing someone before they get to truly experience life -is somehow this "wonderful" thing. I could vomit. Life is a gift -and no one else has the "right" to take that gift away and then say -aw, the lucky bastard would have thanked me for killing him. Maybe you didn't know it -but the world has already experienced the belief that no human life has any value at all unless someone ELSE finds value in it. The opinion of the individual who actually OWNED that life was never consulted -because the belief was what they thought about the value of their own life was irrelevant. And we got millions and MILLIONS of slaughtered people for that belief - in case you didn't know. Perhaps the Nazis showed up just a few decades too soon, huh?

My life has value because it is MY life -period. My age is irrelevant -it is my life that matters and don't kid yourself that a living human fetus is a not living human. Ever seen a late term abortion? Maybe you should -and then come back and spew that kind of garbage about what a lucky bastard some kid was because a doctor stuck scissors in the base of his skull mere seconds before he drew his first breath and then vacuumed his brains out with the sole purpose of preventing him from drawing that first breath. And tell us all what a warm, tingly feeling you got while watching his death spasms. After all -the kid is going to heaven, right?

Not everyone feels as you do about life. Many people live in misery. Imagine now, being an unwanted child. The chance for neglect or abuse escalates when you are born of parents who did not want you to begin with.

The answer is not to argue semantics, or God what think God will do with fetus souls if there is such a thing (Allie Baba; human beings have souls, I am not saying we do not. You cannot speak with authority when a fetus becomes human - i.e. a soul becomes part of that grouping of cells).

 

[Taomon]

Only a handful were sure. Not me, or anybody I know. Fewer than were sure all the computers in the world were going to crash.

I'm a good example to sinners (and we're all sinners). I show them how important it is to ignore peer pressure. And I don't stoop to your level, which is also a good example.

So you displaying arrogance and ego is not stooping to our level?

 

[Taomon]

I don't judge people by their sin, neither did Jesus.

We are expected to judge them by their unbelief, if they have been offered the opportunity of salvation and rejected it.

It's just secular arrogance that leads people to make the assumption that Jesus was talking ABOUT believers vs. unbelievers when he said judge not. We're supposed to turn the other cheek when we're persecuted, but he was directly referring to the ways the faithful treat each other.

Jesus had no problem calling an acorn a nut. He was pretty up front with his handling of the money changers at the temple. Nor did he waste time or energy trying to convert Pontius Pilate. Or Herod, when he went before them. At the same time, he maintained his assertions that he was the son of God. Regardless of how they laughed at him, or attempted to convince him to say otherwise.

We aren't expected to coddle those who reject Christ, or lie to them about their fate if they don't change their minds. It isn't un-Christian to tell people Christ is the only way to heaven (btw, still waiting for a citation that states "good people" can get to heaven without faith in Christ). It's not un-Christian to be a Christian. What an idiotic thing to insist...and yet I hear it all the time. "You're not a very good Christian if you believe people go to hell for not believing..." Whaaaaat? I mean, that pretty much is the definition of a Christian. "You're a stupid Christian if you believe in the Bible." Are you kidding me?

You are not supposed to judge anyone at all. That is the point that you continue to miss.

Who is your pastor? He has obviously put some very bad ideas into your head. I want to talk to this fellow. You completely misconstrued the Bible. Christians are not expected or tasked or even allowed to pass judgement on anyone (believer or non) according to the Bible.

 

[manifold]

I don't know, but maybe your mother should have tried it so you could see firsthand if you thought it was actually better deal for you than being so thoughtlessly "forced" to experience such a dreadful life you surely must have now. With that kind of comment -surely you find life a real burden to you, right?

The problem with your thinking is you ignore what it does to the unrepentant souls of those involved with killing that fetus while pretending that killing someone before they get to truly experience life -is somehow this "wonderful" thing. I could vomit. Life is a gift -and no one else has the "right" to take that gift away and then say -aw, the lucky bastard would have thanked me for killing him. Maybe you didn't know it -but the world has already experienced the belief that no human life has any value at all unless someone ELSE finds value in it. The opinion of the individual who actually OWNED that life was never consulted -because the belief was what they thought about the value of their own life was irrelevant. And we got millions and MILLIONS of slaughtered people for that belief - in case you didn't know. Perhaps the Nazis showed up just a few decades too soon, huh?

My life has value because it is MY life -period. My age is irrelevant -it is my life that matters and don't kid yourself that a living human fetus is a not living human. Ever seen a late term abortion? Maybe you should -and then come back and spew that kind of garbage about what a lucky bastard some kid was because a doctor stuck scissors in the base of his skull mere seconds before he drew his first breath and then vacuumed his brains out with the sole purpose of preventing him from drawing that first breath. And tell us all what a warm, tingly feeling you got while watching his death spasms. After all -the kid is going to heaven, right?

It pleases me to no end knowing that I've offended you.

 

[AllieBaba]

Sorry, bad choice of words. He killed Jesus for the Pharisees. Is that better?

"Pearls before swine"...Jesus isn't talking about the people who haven't heard of Christ. He's talking, specifically, about people who have heard and don't accept him. Big difference.

 

[AllieBaba]

Not everyone feels as you do about life. Many people live in misery. Imagine now, being an unwanted child. The chance for neglect or abuse escalates when you are born of parents who did not want you to begin with.

The answer is not to argue semantics, or God what think God will do with fetus souls if there is such a thing (Allie Baba; human beings have souls, I am not saying we do not. You cannot speak with authority when a fetus becomes human - i.e. a soul becomes part of that grouping of cells).

Once again, where are the stats to back up the statement that abortion lessens the risk of child abuse. Better yet, where are the stats that support the assumption that it's better to be dead than in an unhappy family?

I can speak with as much authority about whether or not a child has a soul and when a child has one as you can. You're willing to risk a lot on the belief that "your" assumption that a child isn't really a child before it's born, and doesn't have a soul anyway. I'm not willing to take the risk.

 

[AllieBaba]

You are not supposed to judge anyone at all. That is the point that you continue to miss.

Who is your pastor? He has obviously put some very bad ideas into your head. I want to talk to this fellow. You completely misconstrued the Bible. Christians are not expected or tasked or even allowed to pass judgement on anyone (believer or non) according to the Bible.

I love it when people who scream from the rooftops that they don't believe think they have the authority to explain Christianity to me.

 

[jillian]

I love it when people who scream from the rooftops that they don't believe think they have the authority to explain Christianity to me.

I'm not one to defend Taomon, but honestly, do you think "belief", per se is a requirement for an intellectual discussion about theology of any type?