**** you war supporters

[Gunny]

It is not a attack when you say something true

The terrorists are happy to see the Dems push their surrender plan. It is exactly what they want the Dems to do.

Even the NY Times reporter in Iraq reported it. The NY Times is hardly a right wing mouth piece

You can support your allegation -- that terrorists are happy to see dems push their surrender plans -- with factual evidence? AN op-ed is NOT factual evidence.

Then of course you can support with factual evidence that MM has a "surrender plan"?

 

[red states rule]

You can support your allegation -- that terrorists are happy to see dems push their surrender plans -- with factual evidence? AN op-ed is NOT factual evidence.

Then of course you can support with factual evidence that MM has a "surrender plan"?

DUBAI, Nov 10 (Reuters) - The leader of Iraq's al Qaeda wing on Friday gloated over forcing outgoing U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to flee the Iraqi battlefield and said his group would not rest until it blew up the White House.

Abu Hamza al-Muhajir, also known as Abu Ayyub al-Masri, said in a purported audio recording posted on the Internet that the group has 12,000 armed fighters and 10,000 others waiting to be equipped to fight U.S. troops in Iraq.

"I swear by God we shall not rest from jihad until we ... blow up the filthiest house known as the White House," he said.

The Democrats' victory at U.S. Congressional elections on Tuesday were a step in the right direction, the speaker said.

"I tell the lame duck (U.S. administration) do not rush to escape as did your defence minister ... stay on the battleground," the speaker said. "The American people have taken a step in the right path to come out of their predicament ... they voted for a level of reason.

"The (U.S.) enemy if now wobbly. Today they are loading their gear to flee," the speaker said.



and...............

hit the link and watch the video

http://newsbusters.org/node/12261

 

[Gunny]

DUBAI, Nov 10 (Reuters) - The leader of Iraq's al Qaeda wing on Friday gloated over forcing outgoing U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to flee the Iraqi battlefield and said his group would not rest until it blew up the White House.

Abu Hamza al-Muhajir, also known as Abu Ayyub al-Masri, said in a purported audio recording posted on the Internet that the group has 12,000 armed fighters and 10,000 others waiting to be equipped to fight U.S. troops in Iraq.

"I swear by God we shall not rest from jihad until we ... blow up the filthiest house known as the White House," he said.

The Democrats' victory at U.S. Congressional elections on Tuesday were a step in the right direction, the speaker said.

"I tell the lame duck (U.S. administration) do not rush to escape as did your defence minister ... stay on the battleground," the speaker said. "The American people have taken a step in the right path to come out of their predicament ... they voted for a level of reason.

"The (U.S.) enemy if now wobbly. Today they are loading their gear to flee," the speaker said.



and...............

hit the link and watch the video

http://newsbusters.org/node/12261

I must've missed the part where it says "the terrorists are happy to see the Dems push their surrender plans."

 

[red states rule]

I must've missed the part where it says "the terrorists are happy to see the Dems push their surrender plans."

Did you watch the video?

As a former member of the US military, would you want the enemy to tell you when they were going to stop fighting and go home? If they did - what would you do?

 

[Gunny]

Did you watch the video?

As a former member of the US military, would you want the enemy to tell you when they were going to stop fighting and go home? If they did - what would you do?

First off, I am STILL a member of the US military.

Second, the story does not support your allegation.

If you are referring to legislating a date to withdraw US forces from Iraq, I am opposed to it.

How long do you suppose the US should sit in the center of Iraq's civil war before leaving? And/or what is your plan for stopping people who have been killing each other for centuries from doing so in order that US troops may be withdrawn?

 

[red states rule]

First off, I am STILL a member of the US military.

Second, the story does not support your allegation.

If you are referring to legislating a date to withdraw US forces from Iraq, I am opposed to it.

How long do you suppose the US should sit in the center of Iraq's civil war before leaving? And/or what is your plan for stopping people who have been killing each other for centuries from doing so in order that US troops may be withdrawn?

I stand corrected on your service. My apologies - no disrespect intended

The Dems plan is surrender. By leaving, it will turn the country over to the terrorists and Iran. It will be mass genocide on a grand scale

It seems alot of people who do not live in Iraq think there is a civil war going on. The people who live in Iraq do not

 

[Gunny]

I stand corrected on your service. My apologies - no disrespect intended

The Dems plan is surrender. By leaving, it will turn the country over to the terrorists and Iran. It will be mass genocide on a grand scale

It seems alot of people who do not live in Iraq think there is a civil war going on. The people who live in Iraq do not

I've been in Iraq. More than once. The current situation is a civil war between Shia and Sunni Muslims for control of the government, and tribal infighting that has existed within Arab society for centuries.

Know anything about TE Lawrence? Don't presume to know more about what's going on than anyone else. TE Lawrence faced the SAME situation during WWI trying to get Arabs to fight the Turks. They were too busy killing each other.

Where do you see mass genocide? If and when we leave, Saudi Arabia will back the Sunni and Iran will back the Shia.

We got rid of Saddam. I have no problem with that; although, it was a questionable strategic decision. We set up a government and let the people vote it in.

IMO, if those people want to maintain the freedom handed to them, they ought get off their asses and fight for it. They're just as amibivalent to it as the Vietnamese were.

Fine. But I will ask again, just when and how do you propose that we should leave? When is enough enough?

 

[red states rule]

Thank you for your continuing service

I have seen may polls where the people in Iraq do not think they are in a civil war - only 27% belive there is a cvil war

There have many Iraqis killed while waiting to enlist in the military or to join the Police - and they still step forward to join

They are fighting back and want their freedom

If the Us leaves do you really think those who helped us, ran for and elected to govenment offices (and their families) will not be harmed?

I say we leave when the govenment, police, and military are ready to stand alone and they tell they are ready to take over

 

[Paul Revere]

First off, I am STILL a member of the US military.

Second, the story does not support your allegation.

If you are referring to legislating a date to withdraw US forces from Iraq, I am opposed to it.

How long do you suppose the US should sit in the center of Iraq's civil war before leaving? And/or what is your plan for stopping people who have been killing each other for centuries from doing so in order that US troops may be withdrawn?

You may want this link:
http://my.opera.com/leatherneck/archive/monthly/?month=200703

 

[Avatar4321]

I agree with Maineman. If chasing terrorists is the main objective, leaving Iraq seems logical. A civil war in Iraq would tie up and kill numerous terrorists with intrest in the struggle for power and free your resources to hunt down others.

Is chasing terrorists the way to win the war on terror though? Or is the best way to win the war on terror by shutting down governments financing terror groups, liberating the people in those countries and providing them freedom to better there situations so that these places that used to breed terrorism will see a better option?

 

[Avatar4321]

do you honestly think that our remaining in Iraq will magically cause sunnis and shiites to stop hating each other? If we left Iraq today, we wouldn't fly planes into buildings and kill innnocent civilians. The carnage that will happen in Iraq if we leave today is no different than the carnage that will happen when we leave Iraq eventually. The only difference is the body count we rack up by delaying.

Magically? of course not. I dont really believe in magic. But with hard work, yes I think we can convince the people of Iraq to stop hating each other because of religious differences. Im honestly not convinced as many of them do as people seem to claim here. i was talking to some legal counsel for the Embassy to Iraq and from the sounds of it, the media hasn't been portraying things that accurately. The leadership in Iraq wants us to succeed as much as they do. The Kurds are tired of war. There are Shiite politicians looking out for Sunni interests as well as as Shiites. Sunnis are working with the others. They just arent used to being treated like a minority and are scared.

The fact is I think we have a good chance at succeeding in Iraq in the long term. I have more hope for there than ever before.

But we have two choices:

1)We can keep doing what we can to help the Iraqis and possibly have peace in the long run.

or

2)We can pull out. Abandon our new allies. Completely undermine everything they've been working for these past four years and definitely have war in the long run.

If its a choice between possibly winning, and definitely losing, im going to try, because if we dont try, we dont do, and if we dont do how will things get any better?

 

[Avatar4321]

Stop with the facts - MM can't handle them

Dude, you really need to learn to be more tactful. I love how enthusiastic you are, but you should tone it back. It doesnt help our cause when you do nothing but attack.

 

[Avatar4321]

No. Not magically.
And I can't say how to solve this, but killing some hunderedthousand innocent people and setting the stage for a civil war for no reason at all can't be nothing else than a criminal act. Leaning back and saying, "so what, they'll kill each other anyway" is repulsive.

You have already flown your airplanes and killed the innocent - now is the time to show the difference between yourself and a terrorist.

Now is the time to show that you take responsability for your actions.

Too many people dont understand responsibility. They dont want to take it. If they did this world would be a better place.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you still refuse to see the difference between criticizing this administration and failing to support our troops and continue to accuse me of the latter for doing the former, I have no intention of "getting over" that.

The problem is you arent just criticizing the administration. You are supporting legislation that is designed to remove us from Iraq by preventing our troops with equipment and training in order to increase the amount of troop casaulties to a point where the American people will be horrified enough to abandon Iraq to war and genocide.

Everyone wants to see the troops come home. But you dont dont bring the troops home by making sure enough die to outrage people to bring the rest home. You bring the troops home by winning the war.

If you support the troops support what they are doing. They are big boys. They volunteered to do this. Let them do their job and do what you can to help them do it quickly. The more you fight them doing what they need to do the longer they have to stay there.

 

[Avatar4321]

democrats wanting to leave Iraq should not be confused with wanting to cut and run on the war against Islamic extremism...I think leaving Iraq will allow us to effectively fight that war...and that is the only war we should ever have been fighting in the first place.

But the extremists are fighting us in Iraq. How will running from Iraq help us fight them when our enemy in Iraq are the extremists. We wont be running from the Iraqi people. We will be running from the people you say we should be fighting. And we will be abandoning Iraq, its people, and its resources to those extremists and give them strategic advantages in the world that are dangerous.

 

[Avatar4321]

I am suggesting that the goals of radical extremist islamists such as wahabbists do not include establishing an islamic theocracy in north america. that is fact. and calm down... your cyber toughness is noted. My guess is that if we were to meet in person we would have a great time and learn a great deal from one another. I am not condescending at all in person. Do you enjoy good scotch?

They want to establish a world wide caliphate and you dont think they want it to be in North America?

 

[Avatar4321]

Not to mention that the Mexicans are closer to achieving a US takeover than the Islamofascists. Trust me, the ragheads don't want to step on the toes of the beaners. The Aztecs annihilate the Persians 9 out of 10 times in every game of Civilization I've ever played...that includes Civ I through IV.

Is there anyone the Aztecs don't annihilate? Those guys really piss me off every time I play.

 

[Avatar4321]

I disagree. there is a difference between wanting to inflict harm on the west and wanting to "convert" the west.

They aren't trying to convert us, just rule over us.

 

[Avatar4321]

FACT: Iraq was going to be a issue someday in our lives.
FACT: A war was going to happen
FACT: troops were going to die as history has talked about war and the


I dont see any foundational evidence at all, to lead the belief that these are facts. Predictions, would be a better word. Not even that, I would say guess.

Iraq was an issue for 12 years before we took down Saddam. Saddam routinely violated UN sanctions. He routinely violated our ceasefire aggreement. The only reason Saddam wasnt taken out earlier is that he had the UN and several security council members bribed through the Oil for Food Scandal.

As for a war was going to happen, when has there ever been a time a war wasnt happening on this earth? War it seems is the natural state of things.

When havent troops died in wars?

 

[red states rule]

Dude, you really need to learn to be more tactful. I love how enthusiastic you are, but you should tone it back. It doesnt help our cause when you do nothing but attack.

Some on our side are afraid of offending someone - so they do not speak up - or return the fire