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Unions might have been useful at one point, but even that is debatable. They are like wooden teeth and buggy whips, time to send them to the Museum of Things that Might have been useful at one point
The only ones to whom it's debatable are those who think the uppercrust owe nothing to the idea of patriotism and want all the money:
Unions might have been useful at one point, but even that is debatable. They are like wooden teeth and buggy whips, time to send them to the Museum of Things that Might have been useful at one point
The only ones to whom it's debatable are those who think the uppercrust owe nothing to the idea of patriotism and want all the money:
Total U S Debt
09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)
09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accomodate Tens of Trillions)
09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)
09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)
09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)
09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)
09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38(Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00
09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)
09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00
Unions might have been useful at one point, but even that is debatable. They are like wooden teeth and buggy whips, time to send them to the Museum of Things that Might have been useful at one point
The only ones to whom it's debatable are those who think the uppercrust owe nothing to the idea of patriotism and want all the money:
Total U S Debt
09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)
09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accomodate Tens of Trillions)
09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)
09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)
09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)
09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)
09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38(Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00
09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)
09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00
I witnessed first hand what the unions did for the working man. In 1953 I hired in on what was at that time considered a good job...$1.71 an hour. Six months later the union negotiated for an increase for the classification I had hired in for and they made it retroactive. I was paid a lump sum of $0.10 per hour for every hour I had worked during that six months. When I hired in the company had a "shared" pension plan. Each pay period a deduction was taken from my check to pay my part. Two years later the union successfully negotiated for and was granted a company funded pension plan. It was also retroactive....I received a lump sum check covering every penny I had paid to that point.
When negotiations were ongoing for a new benefit for the hourly employees the salaried personnel of course were not included because they were not members of the union so every time we got a benefit the company gave the same thing to the salaried....sometimes no more than a couple of weeks before we got it.
Companies will not give or pay anyone a goddamned cent more than they have to and if I told you about the toxic and radioactive materials we worked in until the union and OSHA got some regulations in place you wouldn't believe it. It was 1974 when the company first issued individual film badges to measure what each employee was subjected to and then because of what they saw being recorded, for the first time they began to improve working conditions in the uranium plant where I was working. Before that the men working in the feed plant where the uranium was flourinated and heated would shovel the stuff with 18" spades and were not even issued shoe covers or simple masks. Those of us in the process cascade worked with our street clothes on and tracked that light green powder(uo2f2) away from the plant and into our homes. Sometimes when the atmosphere was heavy the flourine in the air was so dense that it would irritate one's nostrils.
In January 1953 about 100 of us were divided into four shifts and worked 24/7 until mid April cleaning up the biggest uraninum spill in the plant's history. There were five large individual plants at the site, K-33 at that time contained the third most construction steel of any in the world...falling behind the Eifel Tower and the Empire State Building. The effected plant(K-27) was about a quarter mile long, 100 yards wide and had three floors. An operator was heating up a 10 ton cylinder of feed material and the copper pigtail between the cylinder and the 5" feed line into the cell ruptured and all ten tons of material escaped into the plant. All the way from one end of the plant to the other and on all three floors icycles of the material condensed on the six inch contruction steel beams. The powder on the floors was half an inch deep in most places. We ran so many vacuum cleaners that one operator was assigned to the circuit breaker panel to reset them when they tripped from overload. The bags in the machines were all filled and guess what the labels we placed on each one said..."Class D Household Filth" You can bet your ass the company buried it in a land fill. To this day some of the highly radioactive materials are still being dealt with.
Beginning in the mid 1980's the company fought law suits but so many were sick and dying the DOL finally set up a fund, $140,000 per sick employee which was usually claimed by the survivors. Thank goodness in the early 60's I was caught in a broad reduction in force and managed to get another job in the computing center.
Anybody who thinks a company is their friend or that the company will do one inconvenient thing or give one extra penny to ordinary workers has their head so far up their ass that they will never see daylight again. Unions made the middle class of America and folks who can't see it just don't want to.
Unions might have been useful at one point, but even that is debatable. They are like wooden teeth and buggy whips, time to send them to the Museum of Things that Might have been useful at one point
The only ones to whom it's debatable are those who think the uppercrust owe nothing to the idea of patriotism and want all the money:
You sounds like a Marxist and a really old, drooling one at that
Your charts should have correlation with what the rest of us call "reality"
Were union outlawed in 1970? 1979? No. What's the point of your charts?
I couldn't say whether the union my father belonged to was typical of unions, or simply sub-par. Only that he often complained about them, and considering the conditions he worked in it didn't seem like they were very helpful to me.
Hell, then those individuals working in factories in China, Mexico , Vietnam, Cambodia etc, and other 3rd world countries should really being doing quite well. Working 16 hours a day, one break and live right on the factory grounds.
Damn, those union people sure have missed the boat to prosperity.
I couldn't say whether the union my father belonged to was typical of unions, or simply sub-par. Only that he often complained about them, and considering the conditions he worked in it didn't seem like they were very helpful to me.
Hell, then those individuals working in factories in China, Mexico , Vietnam, Cambodia etc, and other 3rd world countries should really being doing quite well. Working 16 hours a day, one break and live right on the factory grounds.
Damn, those union people sure have missed the boat to prosperity.
I couldn't say whether the union my father belonged to was typical of unions, or simply sub-par. Only that he often complained about them, and considering the conditions he worked in it didn't seem like they were very helpful to me.
Hell, then those individuals working in factories in China, Mexico , Vietnam, Cambodia etc, and other 3rd world countries should really being doing quite well. Working 16 hours a day, one break and live right on the factory grounds.
Damn, those union people sure have missed the boat to prosperity.
I couldn't say whether the union my father belonged to was typical of unions, or simply sub-par. Only that he often complained about them, and considering the conditions he worked in it didn't seem like they were very helpful to me.
I witnessed first hand what the unions did for the working man. In 1953 I hired in on what was at that time considered a good job...$1.71 an hour. Six months later the union negotiated for an increase for the classification I had hired in for and they made it retroactive. I was paid a lump sum of $0.10 per hour for every hour I had worked during that six months. When I hired in the company had a "shared" pension plan. Each pay period a deduction was taken from my check to pay my part. Two years later the union successfully negotiated for and was granted a company funded pension plan. It was also retroactive....I received a lump sum check covering every penny I had paid to that point.
When negotiations were ongoing for a new benefit for the hourly employees the salaried personnel of course were not included because they were not members of the union so every time we got a benefit the company gave the same thing to the salaried....sometimes no more than a couple of weeks before we got it.
Companies will not give or pay anyone a goddamned cent more than they have to and if I told you about the toxic and radioactive materials we worked in until the union and OSHA got some regulations in place you wouldn't believe it. It was 1974 when the company first issued individual film badges to measure what each employee was subjected to and then because of what they saw being recorded, for the first time they began to improve working conditions in the uranium plant where I was working. Before that the men working in the feed plant where the uranium was flourinated and heated would shovel the stuff with 18" spades and were not even issued shoe covers or simple masks. Those of us in the process cascade worked with our street clothes on and tracked that light green powder(uo2f2) away from the plant and into our homes. Sometimes when the atmosphere was heavy the flourine in the air was so dense that it would irritate one's nostrils.
In January 1953 about 100 of us were divided into four shifts and worked 24/7 until mid April cleaning up the biggest uraninum spill in the plant's history. There were five large individual plants at the site, K-33 at that time contained the third most construction steel of any in the world...falling behind the Eifel Tower and the Empire State Building. The effected plant(K-27) was about a quarter mile long, 100 yards wide and had three floors. An operator was heating up a 10 ton cylinder of feed material and the copper pigtail between the cylinder and the 5" feed line into the cell ruptured and all ten tons of material escaped into the plant. All the way from one end of the plant to the other and on all three floors icycles of the material condensed on the six inch contruction steel beams. The powder on the floors was half an inch deep in most places. We ran so many vacuum cleaners that one operator was assigned to the circuit breaker panel to reset them when they tripped from overload. The bags in the machines were all filled and guess what the labels we placed on each one said..."Class D Household Filth" You can bet your ass the company buried it in a land fill. To this day some of the highly radioactive materials are still being dealt with.
Beginning in the mid 1980's the company fought law suits but so many were sick and dying the DOL finally set up a fund, $140,000 per sick employee which was usually claimed by the survivors. Thank goodness in the early 60's I was caught in a broad reduction in force and managed to get another job in the computing center.
Anybody who thinks a company is their friend or that the company will do one inconvenient thing or give one extra penny to ordinary workers has their head so far up their ass that they will never see daylight again. Unions made the middle class of America and folks who can't see it just don't want to.
Hell, then those individuals working in factories in China, Mexico , Vietnam, Cambodia etc, and other 3rd world countries should really being doing quite well. Working 16 hours a day, one break and live right on the factory grounds.
Damn, those union people sure have missed the boat to prosperity.
I couldn't say whether the union my father belonged to was typical of unions, or simply sub-par. Only that he often complained about them, and considering the conditions he worked in it didn't seem like they were very helpful to me.
Those countries are in the process of building and growing their economy; they've not yet reached the point where they can afford to have economic leaches and parasites feast off the labors of others
My dad was a union worker, he hated it.
He said they took his money, didn't do a damned thing for him and would throw you under a bus in a second if they thought it would benefit the union.
the Union guy is probably $15000 overpaid while the non-Union guy is probably $15000 underpaid.....do you think the Union guy will take a 15K CUT?......do you think the Non-Union Company will give him that 15K raise?....id say no on both counts....Oh, please. If things were really as bad as you say they were, you'd have been dead a long time ago. It's absolutely crazy how the liberals and the lazy complain about how bad business owners are, yet feel no compunction whatsoever about robbing states blind and forcing people out of work because the damn unions refuse to compromise. There is absolutely no reason at all for a union worker to make $75k for doing the same job as a non-union worker making $45k. Just because you belong to a union doesn't mean you deserve to be making $30k more per year. And that doesn't even take into consideration union benefits and retirement plans. It's insane. Until unions become more reasonable in their demands and actions, they will continue to hemorrhage union members and will eventually be reduced to little more than a barely noticeable annoyance.
Unions and Liberals are similar...
Those in unions who don't want to work ride on the coat tails of those who do.
Liberals want the successful to pay the freight for those who just want to coast through life.
Don't strain yourself there with all that verbiage. This place has more geniuses who think a one liner will suffice than any place I've ever been in my life. Why don't you people ever actually address the body of a post instead of just trying to ignore it and cover it up? I started out in a union and I've never been around anybody who worked harder than I did....for 43 years.
Guess you've never paid attention.
Every union shop I've worked in has it's layabouts. Every single shop.
My dad was a union worker, he hated it.
He said they took his money, didn't do a damned thing for him and would throw you under a bus in a second if they thought it would benefit the union.
I have no clue where or who your dad was involved with. I was a member of local 9-288 of the Oil, Chemical and Atomic Workers(OCAW) and we were like brothers. Less than 5% of our work force were scabs. You know what a scab is I assume. It's somebody who rides the train to it's destination but doesn't pay the fare.
So the "scab" isn't really "working".....? They just sit around and watch you "real men" do the work?
Fukin liar...
The way I see it, if a man or woman is doing their JOB, they are "paying their fare".
IF you were employed by a unionized company and were allowed to not join the union, but you had to work for 2/3rds of the union employees wages, would that be fair? Sure it would.
