Yep, that wind power sure is a great investment.....

[westwall]

Errrr, apparently not...even in China. Yes, China where labor costs are low and environmental regulations are nil, they still can't get wind power to turn a profit...

No surprise to a thinking person.



CHINA: The Chinese wind power sector lost about CNY 10 billion ($1.6 billion), or 20 billion kilowatt hours in electricity, from curtailment in 2012, according to Qin Haiyan, secretary general of the Chinese Wind Energy Association.


Qin said government curtailment had forced 20-30% wind turbines to a standstill on average across the country, and the ratio amounted to 40-50% in some places in 2012.

Therefore, Chinese wind farms, particularly those in northern areas, were on the verge of making an annual loss in 2012.




China's wind sector lost $1.6 billion in 2012 | Windpower Monthly

 

[Old Rocks]

China's wind sector lost $1.6 billion in 2012 | Windpower Monthly

Qin's comments came as Longyuan general manager Xie Changjun said the Chinese government was soliciting public opinions on the third draft of the renewable energy quota system. Once the new mechanism is implemented, the grid will be forced to accept certain proportions of electric power from renewable energy sources.

Qin said the curtailment in 2012 was almost double that of 2011. A major contributing element was that China’s power generation capacity rose considerably in 2012, and wind power gave way to thermal and nuclear power.

"But this runs against the renewable energy law," said Qin. He added this was a matter of interest conflicts. In the cold northern areas, thermal power plants, using combined heat and power turbines, operate in full gears to supply heating in winter. And many wind turbines have to be stopped to give way to thermal plants.

So they are running the coal fired plants full bore, and idling the windmills. And here is the result;

Beijing Air Pollution Causes Enough Smog For Airlines To Cancel Flights To China

Thick, off-the-scale smog shrouded eastern China for the second time in about two weeks Tuesday, forcing airlines to cancel flights because of poor visibility and prompting Beijing to temporarily shut factories and curtail fleets of government cars.

The capital was a colorless scene. Street lamps and the outlines of buildings receded into a white haze as pedestrians donned face masks to guard against the caustic air. The flight cancellations stranded passengers during the first week of the country's peak, six-week period for travel surrounding the Chinese New Year on Feb. 10.

The U.S. Embassy reported an hourly peak level of PM2.5 — tiny particulate matter that can penetrate deep into the lungs — at 526 micrograms per cubic meter, or "beyond index," and more than 20 times higher than World Health Organization safety levels over a 24-hour period.

So what we have here is a poltical decision to use the dirty coal fired plants rather than clean wind. At the detriment of the health of the people of China. And that is what you wish for our nation. What a jerk you are.

 

[Mr. H.]

But, cheap abundant natural gas has supplanted coal in this country resulting in the lowest emissions in 20 years. I know- it's not the only contributing factor (slower economy, etc), but the EIA report gave no credit to wind power as a component in this phenomena.

 

[Mr. H.]

The recent natural gas "revolution" was born of private capital being risked on the application of new technologies and innovation. The same can be said of the increased production of liquids (crude and natural gas liquids).

The "political decisions" in this country focus in part on hampering private industry to the benefit of government funded industry. Obama's yet to be approved budget has a minimum of $40 billion in taxes on oil and gas which is undoubtedly earmarked for funding wind and solar etc.

The EPA is hell-bent on burying the practice of hydraulic fracturing, killing one of the very few job creating sectors of our economy.

 

[Mr. H.]

Go ahead Mr. R. you can call me a jerk too.
You know you want to .

 

[westwall]

China's wind sector lost $1.6 billion in 2012 | Windpower Monthly

Qin's comments came as Longyuan general manager Xie Changjun said the Chinese government was soliciting public opinions on the third draft of the renewable energy quota system. Once the new mechanism is implemented, the grid will be forced to accept certain proportions of electric power from renewable energy sources.

Qin said the curtailment in 2012 was almost double that of 2011. A major contributing element was that China’s power generation capacity rose considerably in 2012, and wind power gave way to thermal and nuclear power.

"But this runs against the renewable energy law," said Qin. He added this was a matter of interest conflicts. In the cold northern areas, thermal power plants, using combined heat and power turbines, operate in full gears to supply heating in winter. And many wind turbines have to be stopped to give way to thermal plants.

So they are running the coal fired plants full bore, and idling the windmills. And here is the result;

Beijing Air Pollution Causes Enough Smog For Airlines To Cancel Flights To China

Thick, off-the-scale smog shrouded eastern China for the second time in about two weeks Tuesday, forcing airlines to cancel flights because of poor visibility and prompting Beijing to temporarily shut factories and curtail fleets of government cars.

The capital was a colorless scene. Street lamps and the outlines of buildings receded into a white haze as pedestrians donned face masks to guard against the caustic air. The flight cancellations stranded passengers during the first week of the country's peak, six-week period for travel surrounding the Chinese New Year on Feb. 10.

The U.S. Embassy reported an hourly peak level of PM2.5 — tiny particulate matter that can penetrate deep into the lungs — at 526 micrograms per cubic meter, or "beyond index," and more than 20 times higher than World Health Organization safety levels over a 24-hour period.

So what we have here is a poltical decision to use the dirty coal fired plants rather than clean wind. At the detriment of the health of the people of China. And that is what you wish for our nation. What a jerk you are.

Well, you know...that is the collectivist way. Every socialist country in Europe was a sewer and it took western money and desire to clean up the mess. That whole area is still in great need of pollution control. Hell your very own EVRAZ is still polluting the hell out of it's areas in Russia.

Did you guys ever get your act cleaned up, up there in Oregon, or are you still fouling your neighbors air and water?

 

[Barclay]

Before you start home exercise heated up your body and get ready for exercise,
this exercise is for stomach area, arms and even include your back and neck area, Falls are alternative to creating chest area and arms muscle tissue....

 

[Mr. H.]

Before you start home exercise heated up your body and get ready for exercise,
this exercise is for stomach area, arms and even include your back and neck area, Falls are alternative to creating chest area and arms muscle tissue....

You make my stomach want to wretch long time.

 

[Katzndogz]

Before you start home exercise heated up your body and get ready for exercise,
this exercise is for stomach area, arms and even include your back and neck area, Falls are alternative to creating chest area and arms muscle tissue....

You make my stomach want to wretch long time.

He's already banned.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

If only we could harness the constant flow of hot air from the right ............

We'd never want for energy again.

 

[polarbear]

If only we could harness the constant flow of hot air from the right ............

We'd never want for energy again.

You are confused from which direction the "hot air" is blowing...and don`t know the first thing about energy, power, a power factor, power on demand and what a power on demand grid is...which by the way is what the PC you use to type this garbage is sucking on.
Even if you had a "constant flow of hot air" that could be harnessed you would be a far cry from a power on demand grid.
Show me a city or a village or even a household that has a "constant load" a constant power factor where a "constant power source" would suffice.
You have never been in a real power plant and watched what`s going on at the control systems panel.
All it takes is a few inductive loads coming on-line at the same time and the current power factor and turbine output is way out of whack.
Unless you can throttle up with the wicket gates on a turbine INSTANTLY you got a brown-out to the extent that the power lines can sag almost 1 meter because they get too warm...
(I bet you never even knew that this happens. On occasion they sag enough to reach the tree tops and start forest fires..!!!)
but even if they don`t the Ohms per distance increase till you`ve got a huge and wide spread power failure on your hands because there is no way you can make up for the voltage drop any more..and you`ve got a cascading grid failure on your hands that can cause a power failure from Canada all the way to Mexico.
So how exactly are you "cool heads" on the left planning to overcome this problem?
Can you have 100 wind turbines in California at exactly the right rpm for 60 Hertz and in phase on standby when the wind slacks off in Texas?
Because that`s what it takes for a power on demand grid.
In any power plant the current load is supplied by the on-line generators while the other ones are spinning on stand-by in phase with millisecond precision, fire high speed pneumatic switches and absorb the load fluctuations till the wicket gates of the other turbines have opened enough to adjust to the new load. And when the power demand drops...it always does, just as sudden as it increases you have to be able to reverse the modulation as fast and as precise as for an increase....else you will burn out household appliances in Texas and California.
This is what happens if you can`t do it exactly the way I just told you:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sayano-Shushenskaya_power_station_accident

I would like to see a "cool" left wing-nut like you @ the controls when the software fails like during the 2003 Northeast blackout...and you get some "hot air" over the phone from your "right wing" distribution system supervisor.
Northeast blackout of 2003 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So how would you adjust your wind turbines?
Increase the excitor currents and make up for the ensuing rpm drop by decreasing the blade pitch?
That would drop the torque and you would brown out.
Increase the pitch "full coarse" to increase torque?
That would drop the rpm and you would drop from 60 hertz to 50...and you would make the most gigantic short your county has ever seen...lightning strikes included.
The only "emergency action" you would have left at your disposal is to run out with as many left-wing "green energy" wing-nuts as you can mobilize and blow as much hot air as you can muster at your wind turbines.
What`s your background in engineering anyway?
I`m an engineer and my family back in Germany owns a hydro power plant that supplies southern Bavaria.
I`ve been watching since I was in Kindergarten what`s going on in a power plant and have written some of the software which runs the entire beast.

For every tax $$$ $ubsidized wind turbine you "green energy" wing-nuts put on line we have to commit a gas or hydro-turbine somewhere else to keep spinning in stand-by mode instead of supplying grid power...just so that the grid does not cascade into a black-out when the wind or the power demand fluctuates.
All the while the other power plants have to burn fuel, or fuel rods or run water from the basin down the river, wasting it,...just so that you can have some windmills "making green power"
Why do you think wind mill farms get paid to stay off the grid..during the time when we really need the power?
It`s not that they make "excess power" like you have been reading on the internet green blogs
It`s because it is cheaper to shut them down instead of having all the other REAL POWER PLANTS waist fuel, up-stream water and pay the wages for all these crews and systems on "stand-by"and on high alert, finger on the high speed pneumatic switches at the ready, while this green crap is on-line.
Once they are shut down and gone the entire system runs in auto-mode and can rely on fail-safe software commands and the overtime double shift crews can go home....till this politically correct energy crap has to make some more KVA`s for the "Carbon credits" schemes so that the politicians that subsidized it don`t get exposed what kind of stupid fools they really are