Wow! 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths.......

Angelo

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Weird that almost all conservatives are racists that believe everything is a conspiracy. Must be something in the geritol.
Saying all conservatives are racist would be like saying all liberals are gay.
The truth is we all agree on most things-- all this "liberal vs conservative " talk
only assures we are divided.
 

skye

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The answer for Corona Virus is Hydroxychloroquine !!!

So no more shit ok?

Use that drug if you want to save lives,

If you don't want to save lives then don't use that drug.

Period.
 

Coyote

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Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed


The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw
You're simply wrong, and the Telegraph article you cited proves it. The virus was probably a contributing factor in most of the deaths in Italy. In other words, if they had not contracted covid-19, most of them would still be alive. Here are some extracts from the article:

“The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older - the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” Prof Ricciardi says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.

This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions. Experts have also warned against making direct comparisons between countries due to discrepancies in testing.

But there are other factors that may have contributed to Italy’s fatality rates, experts say. This includes a high rate of smoking and pollution - the majority of deaths have been in the northern region Lombardy region, which is notorious for poor air quality.


You can read the whole article here:
Well, we're not going to argue with you. Or at least I'm not.

The official from Italy said specifically that many of the people on the list, had died with Corona, not specifically because of Corona. That means, exactly that. The statistics coming out of Italy, are not excluding people who died from other causes. Only that they had Corona.

If I have heart failure, and I die from heart failure, and I happen to have Corona when I die of heart failure... Corona didn't do that. Heart failure did.

So, I am inclined to believe that it is possible the numbers are exaggerated in Italy. You disagree, that's fine.
But it doesn’t really work like that.

Each stressor on the body’s systems lowers the bar for morbidity. So one with diabetes, heart disease and COPD for example is very vulnerable to any additional stressors.

Someone with heart disease or lung disease can get along well for years with medical management. But they get the virus, it attacks their already weakened lungs, and they go down. What killed them? They would not have died at that time had the virus not infected them.
I agree with the above statement.

I also know that some people get Corona, have negligible symptoms. Is it not at all possible that someone already in the process of dying, could catch Corona on the way out?

Yes, I understand, some people my not be dying at all, and have an illness that makes them susceptible to additional illness, and that illness could cause death.
I agree with your statement.
It is possible, for example in some of the nursing home deaths, but based on the evidence it doesn’t seem likely. Covid19 has a distinct pattern of pneumonia in xrays. And pneumonia kills. It can also cause an over reaction of the bodies immune system, which can be lethal.
 

Admiral Rockwell Tory

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Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed


The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw
Not sure what you're driving at with this but not only is there a fire, a couple of the doors might be locked. 785 deaths today in the US alone. But yeah, nothing to worry about.
No one is engaging with this because everybody on your linked study died after getting the coronavirus. Nothing to discuss.
Never mind the disturbing hyperbole we are hearing from the media, never mind the frightening predictions and projections we keep hearing, never mind the scary assessment by the Trump White House that 200,000 Americans will die of the coronavirus before all this is over, what is the bottom line?

The bottom line is 3,807 older Americans with preexisting health issues have died in the past three months within a population of 327 million.

The bottom line is, that fact is uniquely unremarkable.

During the press conference today, Dr. Deborah Birx presented a rather startling graph. It is unavailable on the internet. It showed that New York state and New Jersey, which is connected to the N.Y. city metro area, are anomalies. The rest of the states, all 48 of them, appear to have Covid-19 under control.

This link confirms that fact. United States Coronavirus: 187,347 Cases and 3,860 Deaths - Worldometer

Please go to the graph showing the states. The number of cases is secondary to the fatality rate of this virus. The common cold is, well, common. Look at the number of deaths. Again, that is a three month total, and, again, considering the fact that we are talking about the sick and the elderly, the figures are quite ordinary, perhaps even low.

Trump's medical experts finally confirmed something else I have been saying all along. The Trump White still refuses to give us an age breakdown of the deceased, but Dr. Birx told us that, while the young do get infected, they recover. She said that the mortality rate "increases with age and preexisting medical conditions."

That is the closest the Trump White House will get to providing the age and condition of those who succumb to this new common cold virus. Why is that?

Take away New York City, Detroit, and New Orleans and the media wouldn't have much to talk about.
I saw a YouTube video that was showing why people went into panic mode, and we're emptying the shelves of toilet paper, paper towels, food etc. It said that the "World Health Administration" told them to have a 14 day stock pile enlight of the pandemic that was to come.

Since when does America or American's take advice from a "World Health Organization" ???? Since we became these so called "World Citizen's" now ??????

How did the citizens of America get this information up front, and then they acted upon it before most of us knew anything about it ???

Is this nation in some sort of planned out grip by the world community/world health organization ???? Why are leftist using this disaster for political reason's, and why are the leftist/Democrats/liberals the ones hyping this thing in ways that are to be against Trump and the current administration ??

It's getting so hard to trust anything Democrat these days, in fact it might be over for them as they've played their bluff out. All one has to do is look for the links, the connections, and then listen to the speak, and pay close attention to the opportunities that are jumped on at every second by them. Never let a good crisis go to waste remember ??
What is the "World Health Administration"?
 

RoshawnMarkwees

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Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed


The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw
New York's death toll
will pass 9/11 by the end of the week.

New York's death toll ALREADY passed the 9/11 death toll, and it's only Tuesday. But why worry?
Flu deaths surpass 9-11 in NYC every year.
Your point being... ? We shouldn't care about any of it?
I was putting your post into perspective.
 

Angelo

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Montrovant

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When will Italy start using chloroquine for their coronavirus patients?

I mean....seriously

what are they waiting for????:dunno:

I just don't understand it.
Good question.
They'll be reconsidering having 30,000 Chinese migrant workers
in their garment factories from now on.

Absolutely!

Hope they learn their lessons....they wanted all their clothes to say Made in Italy.... instead to Made in China...so they brought in thousands of Chinese workers.

And that's where Italy is now...because of their stupidity ...they are in the midst of Hell.

Oh well...later rather than sooner ....they will understand (we hope)
As if Chinese people somehow uniquely carry the virus. You're a racist pig.
Zika is Racist!!
Ebola- RACIST!!

Right?
Is Zika called the Brazilian virus?
If we started calling the Chinese virus the Wuhan virus would that satisfy you? Or still RACIST!?
Yes, still racist. Why not call it the coronavirus, since that is its name?
That is not it's name- it's actually Covid 19 and most have adopted that moniker.

Regardless, calling it the "Wuhan virus" or the "Chinese Virus" is not racist. Chinese is not a race, it's a nation.

Pandemics have a long history of being named after their place of origin. This is simply more Covfefe-16.....:rofl:
The VIRUS is called coronavirus (or novel coronavirus). The DISEASE is called covid-19. If you look at my posts, I use those terms distinctly, not interchangeably. I'm not sure where you got the idea that Chinese is not a race -- how do you define a race? And the "Spanish" flu that killed millions in 1918-1919 wasn't from Spain.
Actually, from my reading, the virus is SARS-CoV-2, which is a strain of Coronavirus, while the disease is COVID19-19.
Severe acute respiratory syndrome Coronavirus 2 and Coronavirus disease 2019.
 

Bruce Daniels

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Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed


The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw
Not sure what you're driving at with this but not only is there a fire, a couple of the doors might be locked. 785 deaths today in the US alone. But yeah, nothing to worry about.
No one is engaging with this because everybody on your linked study died after getting the coronavirus. Nothing to discuss.
Never mind the disturbing hyperbole we are hearing from the media, never mind the frightening predictions and projections we keep hearing, never mind the scary assessment by the Trump White House that 200,000 Americans will die of the coronavirus before all this is over, what is the bottom line?

The bottom line is 3,807 older Americans with preexisting health issues have died in the past three months within a population of 327 million.

The bottom line is, that fact is uniquely unremarkable.

During the press conference today, Dr. Deborah Birx presented a rather startling graph. It is unavailable on the internet. It showed that New York state and New Jersey, which is connected to the N.Y. city metro area, are anomalies. The rest of the states, all 48 of them, appear to have Covid-19 under control.

This link confirms that fact. United States Coronavirus: 187,347 Cases and 3,860 Deaths - Worldometer

Please go to the graph showing the states. The number of cases is secondary to the fatality rate of this virus. The common cold is, well, common. Look at the number of deaths. Again, that is a three month total, and, again, considering the fact that we are talking about the sick and the elderly, the figures are quite ordinary, perhaps even low.

Trump's medical experts finally confirmed something else I have been saying all along. The Trump White still refuses to give us an age breakdown of the deceased, but Dr. Birx told us that, while the young do get infected, they recover. She said that the mortality rate "increases with age and preexisting medical conditions."

That is the closest the Trump White House will get to providing the age and condition of those who succumb to this new common cold virus. Why is that?

Take away New York City, Detroit, and New Orleans and the media wouldn't have much to talk about.
I saw a YouTube video that was showing why people went into panic mode, and we're emptying the shelves of toilet paper, paper towels, food etc. It said that the "World Health Administration" told them to have a 14 day stock pile enlight of the pandemic that was to come.

Since when does America or American's take advice from a "World Health Organization" ???? Since we became these so called "World Citizen's" now ??????

How did the citizens of America get this information up front, and then they acted upon it before most of us knew anything about it ???

Is this nation in some sort of planned out grip by the world community/world health organization ???? Why are leftist using this disaster for political reason's, and why are the leftist/Democrats/liberals the ones hyping this thing in ways that are to be against Trump and the current administration ??

It's getting so hard to trust anything Democrat these days, in fact it might be over for them as they've played their bluff out. All one has to do is look for the links, the connections, and then listen to the speak, and pay close attention to the opportunities that are jumped on at every second by them. Never let a good crisis go to waste remember ??
What is the "World Health Administration"?
WHA... ???
 

Bruce Daniels

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Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed


The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw
New York's death toll
will pass 9/11 by the end of the week.

New York's death toll ALREADY passed the 9/11 death toll, and it's only Tuesday. But why worry?
Flu deaths surpass 9-11 in NYC every year.
Your point being... ? We shouldn't care about any of it?
I was putting your post into perspective.
And your perspective is... ?
 

Bruce Daniels

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When will Italy start using chloroquine for their coronavirus patients?

I mean....seriously

what are they waiting for????:dunno:

I just don't understand it.
Good question.
They'll be reconsidering having 30,000 Chinese migrant workers
in their garment factories from now on.

Absolutely!

Hope they learn their lessons....they wanted all their clothes to say Made in Italy.... instead to Made in China...so they brought in thousands of Chinese workers.

And that's where Italy is now...because of their stupidity ...they are in the midst of Hell.

Oh well...later rather than sooner ....they will understand (we hope)
As if Chinese people somehow uniquely carry the virus. You're a racist pig.
Zika is Racist!!
Ebola- RACIST!!

Right?
Is Zika called the Brazilian virus?
If we started calling the Chinese virus the Wuhan virus would that satisfy you? Or still RACIST!?
Yes, still racist. Why not call it the coronavirus, since that is its name?
That is not it's name- it's actually Covid 19 and most have adopted that moniker.

Regardless, calling it the "Wuhan virus" or the "Chinese Virus" is not racist. Chinese is not a race, it's a nation.

Pandemics have a long history of being named after their place of origin. This is simply more Covfefe-16.....:rofl:
The VIRUS is called coronavirus (or novel coronavirus). The DISEASE is called covid-19. If you look at my posts, I use those terms distinctly, not interchangeably. I'm not sure where you got the idea that Chinese is not a race -- how do you define a race? And the "Spanish" flu that killed millions in 1918-1919 wasn't from Spain.
Actually, from my reading, the virus is SARS-CoV-2, which is a strain of Coronavirus, while the disease is COVID19-19.
Severe acute respiratory syndrome Coronavirus 2 and Coronavirus disease 2019.
And your reading is from what?
 

RoshawnMarkwees

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Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed


The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw
New York's death toll
will pass 9/11 by the end of the week.

New York's death toll ALREADY passed the 9/11 death toll, and it's only Tuesday. But why worry?
Flu deaths surpass 9-11 in NYC every year.
Your point being... ? We shouldn't care about any of it?
I was putting your post into perspective.
And your perspective is... ?
You were making a comparison to 9-11.
 

Bruce Daniels

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Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed


The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw
New York's death toll
will pass 9/11 by the end of the week.

New York's death toll ALREADY passed the 9/11 death toll, and it's only Tuesday. But why worry?
Flu deaths surpass 9-11 in NYC every year.
Your point being... ? We shouldn't care about any of it?
I was putting your post into perspective.
And your perspective is... ?
You were making a comparison to 9-11.
And covid-19 now has a death toll that's greater than the death toll of 9/11. So how does that compare to the flu?
 

RoshawnMarkwees

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Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed


The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw
New York's death toll
will pass 9/11 by the end of the week.

New York's death toll ALREADY passed the 9/11 death toll, and it's only Tuesday. But why worry?
Flu deaths surpass 9-11 in NYC every year.
Your point being... ? We shouldn't care about any of it?
I was putting your post into perspective.
And your perspective is... ?
You were making a comparison to 9-11.
And covid-19 now has a death toll that's greater than the death toll of 9/11. So how does that compare to the flu?
Flu annually has a higher death toll than 9-11.
 

Bruce Daniels

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Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed


The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw
New York's death toll
will pass 9/11 by the end of the week.

New York's death toll ALREADY passed the 9/11 death toll, and it's only Tuesday. But why worry?
Flu deaths surpass 9-11 in NYC every year.
Your point being... ? We shouldn't care about any of it?
I was putting your post into perspective.
And your perspective is... ?
You were making a comparison to 9-11.
And covid-19 now has a death toll that's greater than the death toll of 9/11. So how does that compare to the flu?
Flu annually has a higher death toll than 9-11.
That's a claim. It may be true. But you don't get to just make the claim and have it accepted as fact. What's your proof? And how does it compare to covid-19 or 9/11?
 

Montrovant

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When will Italy start using chloroquine for their coronavirus patients?

I mean....seriously

what are they waiting for????:dunno:

I just don't understand it.
Good question.
They'll be reconsidering having 30,000 Chinese migrant workers
in their garment factories from now on.

Absolutely!

Hope they learn their lessons....they wanted all their clothes to say Made in Italy.... instead to Made in China...so they brought in thousands of Chinese workers.

And that's where Italy is now...because of their stupidity ...they are in the midst of Hell.

Oh well...later rather than sooner ....they will understand (we hope)
As if Chinese people somehow uniquely carry the virus. You're a racist pig.
Zika is Racist!!
Ebola- RACIST!!

Right?
Is Zika called the Brazilian virus?
If we started calling the Chinese virus the Wuhan virus would that satisfy you? Or still RACIST!?
Yes, still racist. Why not call it the coronavirus, since that is its name?
That is not it's name- it's actually Covid 19 and most have adopted that moniker.

Regardless, calling it the "Wuhan virus" or the "Chinese Virus" is not racist. Chinese is not a race, it's a nation.

Pandemics have a long history of being named after their place of origin. This is simply more Covfefe-16.....:rofl:
The VIRUS is called coronavirus (or novel coronavirus). The DISEASE is called covid-19. If you look at my posts, I use those terms distinctly, not interchangeably. I'm not sure where you got the idea that Chinese is not a race -- how do you define a race? And the "Spanish" flu that killed millions in 1918-1919 wasn't from Spain.
Actually, from my reading, the virus is SARS-CoV-2, which is a strain of Coronavirus, while the disease is COVID19-19.
Severe acute respiratory syndrome Coronavirus 2 and Coronavirus disease 2019.
And your reading is from what?
WHO, CDC, places like that. I was on my phone at work when I made that last post, now I'm home and I'll give you links.


This isn't difficult information to find. :dunno:
 

Montrovant

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Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed


The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw
New York's death toll
will pass 9/11 by the end of the week.

New York's death toll ALREADY passed the 9/11 death toll, and it's only Tuesday. But why worry?
Flu deaths surpass 9-11 in NYC every year.
Your point being... ? We shouldn't care about any of it?
I was putting your post into perspective.
And your perspective is... ?
You were making a comparison to 9-11.
And covid-19 now has a death toll that's greater than the death toll of 9/11. So how does that compare to the flu?
Flu annually has a higher death toll than 9-11.
That's a claim. It may be true. But you don't get to just make the claim and have it accepted as fact. What's your proof? And how does it compare to covid-19 or 9/11?
Another pretty easy to find bit of information, and something I thought was pretty common knowledge.


The estimates for the last 9 years range from 12,000 to 61,000 per year, as shown on the page.
 

emilynghiem

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Thanks, Zander the best backup point
for why I'm saying we make more sense
focusing on the HOSPITALIZATION rates
and numbers going up EACH DAY instead
of deaths that take 2-4 weeks to report and
like Zander points out here are mixed with other causes and statistics.

With the hospital capacity you can see how many thousands of cases pour
in so 15% hospitalization rate means adding hundreds more daily requiring 2-4 weeks of treatment. That's the most critical
escalation that our brave doctors nurses and other medical staff are begging relief
and support on.

If you know friends with churches or ministries who can work with schools to set up supply centers, or with prisons or VA to set up plans to separate populations by high risk/quarantined from low risk or immune, that's where we can all set up safe sites to work until we can straighten out the
economy. At least we can help with medical supply and demand.

I'll be coordinating with local volunteers and progressive party chairs how to create better communications between nonprofits, media and state officials. Please ask all your friends who go to a church, or listen to a radio show host, to form teams and invite others to organize. We can't help the death rates or totals that we cant control or predict.

We can help with supplies and safe worksites, and lift the morale of those fighting to save lives. Thanks and prayers to everyone. Take care!

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed


The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw
 

Faun

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Wow! 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths....... Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.
Your own link says that's not true. It says every death was associated with COVID-19. Many died because of other health conditions that prevented them from surviving this novel Coronavirus, but their health was compromised by the virus. It's the same there as it is here as it is everywhere -- COVID-19 has proven fatal mostly to those over 65 or those with underlying medical issues, such as heart disease or diabetes. And your article points out the median age in Italy is 67.

Your claim is as absurd as saying the film's not such a big deal, it kills only a few hundred people a year. The other tens of thousands die from pneumonia. As though the pneumonia was unrelated to contracting the flu.
 

Bruce Daniels

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Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed


The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw
Not sure what you're driving at with this but not only is there a fire, a couple of the doors might be locked. 785 deaths today in the US alone. But yeah, nothing to worry about.
No one is engaging with this because everybody on your linked study died after getting the coronavirus. Nothing to discuss.
Never mind the disturbing hyperbole we are hearing from the media, never mind the frightening predictions and projections we keep hearing, never mind the scary assessment by the Trump White House that 200,000 Americans will die of the coronavirus before all this is over, what is the bottom line?

The bottom line is 3,807 older Americans with preexisting health issues have died in the past three months within a population of 327 million.

The bottom line is, that fact is uniquely unremarkable.

During the press conference today, Dr. Deborah Birx presented a rather startling graph. It is unavailable on the internet. It showed that New York state and New Jersey, which is connected to the N.Y. city metro area, are anomalies. The rest of the states, all 48 of them, appear to have Covid-19 under control.

This link confirms that fact. United States Coronavirus: 187,347 Cases and 3,860 Deaths - Worldometer

Please go to the graph showing the states. The number of cases is secondary to the fatality rate of this virus. The common cold is, well, common. Look at the number of deaths. Again, that is a three month total, and, again, considering the fact that we are talking about the sick and the elderly, the figures are quite ordinary, perhaps even low.

Trump's medical experts finally confirmed something else I have been saying all along. The Trump White still refuses to give us an age breakdown of the deceased, but Dr. Birx told us that, while the young do get infected, they recover. She said that the mortality rate "increases with age and preexisting medical conditions."

That is the closest the Trump White House will get to providing the age and condition of those who succumb to this new common cold virus. Why is that?

Take away New York City, Detroit, and New Orleans and the media wouldn't have much to talk about.
What is your evidence that all 3,807 older Americans who died from covid-19 had preexisting health issues? What is your evidence that all of them were even "older"? Prove what you say about this alleged "new common cold virus."
 

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