Wow! 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths.......

[beagle9]

When will Italy start using chloroquine for their coronavirus patients?

I mean....seriously

what are they waiting for????

I just don't understand it.

Good question.
They'll be reconsidering having 30,000 Chinese migrant workers
in their garment factories from now on.

Absolutely!

Hope they learn their lessons....they wanted all their clothes to say Made in Italy.... instead to Made in China...so they brought in thousands of Chinese workers.

And that's where Italy is now...because of their stupidity ...they are in the midst of Hell.

Oh well...later rather than sooner ....they will understand (we hope)

As if Chinese people somehow uniquely carry the virus. You're a racist pig.

Zika is Racist!!
Ebola- RACIST!!

Right?

Is Zika called the Brazilian virus?

If we started calling the Chinese virus the Wuhan virus would that satisfy you? Or still RACIST!?

Yes, still racist. Why not call it the coronavirus, since that is its name?

That is not it's name- it's actually Covid 19 and most have adopted that moniker.

Regardless, calling it the "Wuhan virus" or the "Chinese Virus" is not racist. Chinese is not a race, it's a nation.

Pandemics have a long history of being named after their place of origin. This is simply more Covfefe-16.....

The VIRUS is called coronavirus (or novel coronavirus). The DISEASE is called covid-19. If you look at my posts, I use those terms distinctly, not interchangeably. I'm not sure where you got the idea that Chinese is not a race -- how do you define a race? And the "Spanish" flu that killed millions in 1918-1919 wasn't from Spain.

Actually, from my reading, the virus is SARS-CoV-2, which is a strain of Coronavirus, while the disease is COVID19-19.
Severe acute respiratory syndrome Coronavirus 2 and Coronavirus disease 2019.

So is it correct to call the virus coronavirus, and the disease covid-19? Or not?

Call it what you want, but don't expect everyone to follow suit.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

This is just so stupid.

Last year my FIL and BIL died within 3 weeks of each other. My FIL has been battling cancer in his stomach and other places for years and finally his body had had enough and his heart just quit beating...he was 81 and the cause of death on the DC was “heart failure”.

My BIL was 61 and had amyloidosis which caused the walls of his heart to thicken to the point they could not pump correctly. He just fell over dead one night about 8 months of being diagnosed, his heart just could not do it anymore. Cause of death on the DC , heart failure.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

When will Italy start using chloroquine for their coronavirus patients?

I mean....seriously

what are they waiting for????

I just don't understand it.

Good question.
They'll be reconsidering having 30,000 Chinese migrant workers
in their garment factories from now on.

Absolutely!

Hope they learn their lessons....they wanted all their clothes to say Made in Italy.... instead to Made in China...so they brought in thousands of Chinese workers.

And that's where Italy is now...because of their stupidity ...they are in the midst of Hell.

Oh well...later rather than sooner ....they will understand (we hope)

As if Chinese people somehow uniquely carry the virus. You're a racist pig.

The Chinese did carry this virus around the world.

It started in China. That's true. But people from all over carried it around the world. That's what happens when you have a global society.

We've always had a global society.

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

You're simply wrong, and the Telegraph article you cited proves it. The virus was probably a contributing factor in most of the deaths in Italy. In other words, if they had not contracted covid-19, most of them would still be alive. Here are some extracts from the article:

“The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older - the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” Prof Ricciardi says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.

This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions. Experts have also warned against making direct comparisons between countries due to discrepancies in testing.

But there are other factors that may have contributed to Italy’s fatality rates, experts say. This includes a high rate of smoking and pollution - the majority of deaths have been in the northern region Lombardy region, which is notorious for poor air quality.

You can read the whole article here:

Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy?

The country's high death toll is due to an ageing population, overstretched health system and the way fatalities are reported

www.telegraph.co.uk

Well, we're not going to argue with you. Or at least I'm not.

The official from Italy said specifically that many of the people on the list, had died with Corona, not specifically because of Corona. That means, exactly that. The statistics coming out of Italy, are not excluding people who died from other causes. Only that they had Corona.

If I have heart failure, and I die from heart failure, and I happen to have Corona when I die of heart failure... Corona didn't do that. Heart failure did.

So, I am inclined to believe that it is possible the numbers are exaggerated in Italy. You disagree, that's fine.

Could it be possible, in your universe, if your already-compromised heart failed as the result of a cascading escalation of health issues which resulted from contracting covid-19, and that the virus CONTRIBUTED to your death? Do you claim that they are completely unrelated? You simply don't want to admit that this pandemic is real.

Do not put words in my mouth. I never said the Pandemic isn't real. You are just a liar that wants to claim others believe things they don't, because you have nothing of value to add to this conversation.

(how do you like it, when people make up stuff about you?)

Anything can contribute to your death. If you get shot, and are dying, you could contract Corona just before being shot, or during your time in the hospital while dying. That doesn't mean Corona killed you, over being shot.

That's all the guy from Italy was pointing out.

By any measure the death rate in Italy is extremely high, relative to the death rates we've seen from Corona elsewhere in the world.

That suggests two possibilities.

One, they are attributing far more to Corona, than people who are actually dying from Corona.

Two, socialized health care in Italy sucks many times worse than we could imagine.

Either of those are acceptable possibilities.

I apologize for assuming that you don't believe this pandemic is real. I hate it when people put words in my mouth, and I don't want to do it to anyone else. So, now that we've established that this pandemic IS real, I don't agree that there are only the two possibilities that you listed which explain the situation in Italy. If you read the Telegraph article (or even just the extracts that I excerpted), you'd see that there are other factors: Italy has an older population, which tends to have more health issues, many are smokers, there is worse air pollution, etc.

Agreed.

Countries With The Largest Aging Population In The World

Known for its increasing number of elderly, Japan has the most aged citizens in its borders, with Italy close behind.

www.worldatlas.com

The difference between Italy and the rest of the EU, as far as percentage of aged population, is minor.

By that logic, I would assume Japan should be the worst hit in the world.

A factor? Sure. Not sure if it's as important as claimed.

Every country has terrible air pollution, but these are the world’s worst

Air pollution from industrial activity isn’t just an environmental concern—it’s a major public health problem, too.

qz.com

And as far as air quality, again, Italy might be worse on average than the rest of the EU, but the difference is exceptionally small relative to much worse places.

Wouldn't China be the worst?

I don't think that such minor differences between Italy and other first world countries, could make that large of a difference in Corona deaths.

Yes we've always had a global society, but we've always had distinct cultures and borders as well, but of course we are all racist now because of that.

we have not always had a global society, not that long ago it took 6 weeks to get from Nee York to St Louis. Now I can see the most of the world in that amount of time.

 

[Blues Man]

If you nuts think this thing is a hoax than take yourselves on a long vacation to NY city and have at it.

So you don't think it's important to know that the death rate in Italy might be exaggerated because of their reporting practices?

 

[Contumacious]

Covid-19’s Meant to be a New Black Death, But in Britain no More People Are Dying Than NORMAL
What does this say about the virus?

But even when Covid-19 deaths are recorded, we have seen how it could be that people are dying with coronavirus rather than dying of it. This concept is easy enough to understand, and it encourages one to take a closer look at the breakdown of deaths across an entire society. The more you follow this rabbit hole down, the more interesting the numbers become. It may be somewhat morbid, but it is nonetheless very important.

The most popular two articles on the website of The Spectator over the weekend were by Dr John Lee, a recently retired NHS consultant and professor of pathology. He remarks that ‘’we have yet to see any statistical evidence for excess deaths, in any part of the world’’.

To check this out, I looked at the British government’s own statistics on total deaths registered weekly across the UK. It shows that in the week ending on the 8th of March 2019, 10,898 people died in total in the UK. This year, in the week ending the 6th of March 2020, the equivalent figure was almost identical: 10,895. Make of that what you will. Statistics are currently available up to March 20, and while there is a lag between the spread of the virus and the resulting deaths, so far only about 1 percent of all mortalities bear any relation to coronavirus, and there is no visible spike. If nothing else, it helps to view the extent of the crisis in proportion – thousands of people die each week, and from the long-term view what we are seeing is not a plague, but a blip.

So when all is said and done, will any additional people die of the coronavirus? And what is meant by extra or additional?

 

[Disir]

The same thing we knew before. The vast majority of people dying already have medical problems. I'm not trying to be shitty but....................how is this somehow vastly different from what was known before?

 

[Contumacious]

The same thing we knew before. The vast majority of people dying already have medical problems. I'm not trying to be shitty but....................how is this somehow vastly different from what was known before?

Indeed , the powers-that-be are failing or refusing to perform antibodies test.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

If you nuts think this thing is a hoax than take yourselves on a long vacation to NY city and have at it.

Nobody is saying it's a hoax, what many are saying though AND thinking is that the reaction to COVID-19 is a MASSIVE over reaction. Putting nearly ONE THIRD of the world into LOCKDOWN, ordering that businesses and schools and sports events and basically LIFE ITSELF outside of going to get food or medicine, this is UNHEARD of EVEN in an ACTUAL war time situation.

That mainly Leftists are DEMANDING this insane lockdown goes on for 3-6 months makes it more insane. How many peoples are going to be RUINED because of this, permanently ruined, MILLIONS. I bet when this eventually is all over that MORE peoples worldwide will have committed suicide and died of heart attacks when they realise they have been RUINED than will have died from anything to do with COVID-19.

You have basically ONE THIRD of the world under effectively House Arrest, it's beyond outrageous.

Fantastic post, Lucy. Thanks. I hope you and yours are doing well.

Hey, Lucy, go out and congregate! Ignore the warnings! I'm really starting to think that the coronavirus is a mechanism for weeding out the really stupid people.

What are you doing exactly? For the past month I have been assigned to our COVID-19 Task Force, in my position in our Ministry of Interior I was put on this new COVID-19 Task Force to work in conjunction with our Ministry of Health. We have worked on our lockdown measures, we have worked shutting down ALL flights from our neighbouring nations and China, South Korea, Iran the UK, France and others. We have been conducting 20.000 tests, we now have the ability to test 100.000-200.000 peoples a week. We put our measures into place from basically day one, well ahead of ANYTHING America or the stupid British have done.

Because of ALL the peoples I have to deal with that now include our Health Workers, I have been already in self-isolation because I got a dry cough. I then had a test and tested Negative. During my time of self-isolation I was working from home, I was set up with a Ministry laptop with everything I needed on it and it was delivered to me via someone in a hazmat suit.

Last night because I do not trust China, I secured MILLIONS of new protective masks for our Health Workers, I bought them from a nation that is NOT China using our Ministry of Interior COVID-19 Emergency Fund that we set up weeks ago. As we have many of our peoples in other nations either working or just travelling, we have set up special Chartered Flights to get them home, one of these flights I have had diverted so they can take on board the new protective masks I bought and we will get these masks later today and they will be distributed to more of our Health Workers.

So I don't need morons like YOU telling me about COVID-19 or WHAT to do OR WHAT NOT to do. While you are probably sitting in your basement posting increasingly stupid things I have been and ARE working 18 hour days in my duty to assist in protecting our nation and our peoples, and this includes now working Saturday AND Sunday.

 

[Contumacious]

The worst case of abuse of the truth concerning this virus has been in Italy where over 88% of alleged deaths due to coronavirus were misattributed. In other words, 9 out of every 10 deaths in Italy stated as due to coronavirus are likely false. For more information about the Italian scam, see these links here, here, here, and here. If things continue as of late, the U.S. will be the next country to completely shut down, claiming death numbers that are also extremely misleading, and in fact could be outright lies.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

When will Italy start using chloroquine for their coronavirus patients?

I mean....seriously

what are they waiting for????

I just don't understand it.

Good question.
They'll be reconsidering having 30,000 Chinese migrant workers
in their garment factories from now on.

Absolutely!

Hope they learn their lessons....they wanted all their clothes to say Made in Italy.... instead to Made in China...so they brought in thousands of Chinese workers.

And that's where Italy is now...because of their stupidity ...they are in the midst of Hell.

Oh well...later rather than sooner ....they will understand (we hope)

As if Chinese people somehow uniquely carry the virus. You're a racist pig.

The Chinese did carry this virus around the world.

It started in China. That's true. But people from all over carried it around the world. That's what happens when you have a global society.

We've always had a global society.

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

You're simply wrong, and the Telegraph article you cited proves it. The virus was probably a contributing factor in most of the deaths in Italy. In other words, if they had not contracted covid-19, most of them would still be alive. Here are some extracts from the article:

“The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older - the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” Prof Ricciardi says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.

This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions. Experts have also warned against making direct comparisons between countries due to discrepancies in testing.

But there are other factors that may have contributed to Italy’s fatality rates, experts say. This includes a high rate of smoking and pollution - the majority of deaths have been in the northern region Lombardy region, which is notorious for poor air quality.

You can read the whole article here:

Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy?

The country's high death toll is due to an ageing population, overstretched health system and the way fatalities are reported

www.telegraph.co.uk

Well, we're not going to argue with you. Or at least I'm not.

The official from Italy said specifically that many of the people on the list, had died with Corona, not specifically because of Corona. That means, exactly that. The statistics coming out of Italy, are not excluding people who died from other causes. Only that they had Corona.

If I have heart failure, and I die from heart failure, and I happen to have Corona when I die of heart failure... Corona didn't do that. Heart failure did.

So, I am inclined to believe that it is possible the numbers are exaggerated in Italy. You disagree, that's fine.

Could it be possible, in your universe, if your already-compromised heart failed as the result of a cascading escalation of health issues which resulted from contracting covid-19, and that the virus CONTRIBUTED to your death? Do you claim that they are completely unrelated? You simply don't want to admit that this pandemic is real.

Do not put words in my mouth. I never said the Pandemic isn't real. You are just a liar that wants to claim others believe things they don't, because you have nothing of value to add to this conversation.

(how do you like it, when people make up stuff about you?)

Anything can contribute to your death. If you get shot, and are dying, you could contract Corona just before being shot, or during your time in the hospital while dying. That doesn't mean Corona killed you, over being shot.

That's all the guy from Italy was pointing out.

By any measure the death rate in Italy is extremely high, relative to the death rates we've seen from Corona elsewhere in the world.

That suggests two possibilities.

One, they are attributing far more to Corona, than people who are actually dying from Corona.

Two, socialized health care in Italy sucks many times worse than we could imagine.

Either of those are acceptable possibilities.

I apologize for assuming that you don't believe this pandemic is real. I hate it when people put words in my mouth, and I don't want to do it to anyone else. So, now that we've established that this pandemic IS real, I don't agree that there are only the two possibilities that you listed which explain the situation in Italy. If you read the Telegraph article (or even just the extracts that I excerpted), you'd see that there are other factors: Italy has an older population, which tends to have more health issues, many are smokers, there is worse air pollution, etc.

Agreed.

Countries With The Largest Aging Population In The World

Known for its increasing number of elderly, Japan has the most aged citizens in its borders, with Italy close behind.

www.worldatlas.com

The difference between Italy and the rest of the EU, as far as percentage of aged population, is minor.

By that logic, I would assume Japan should be the worst hit in the world.

A factor? Sure. Not sure if it's as important as claimed.

Every country has terrible air pollution, but these are the world’s worst

Air pollution from industrial activity isn’t just an environmental concern—it’s a major public health problem, too.

qz.com

And as far as air quality, again, Italy might be worse on average than the rest of the EU, but the difference is exceptionally small relative to much worse places.

Wouldn't China be the worst?

I don't think that such minor differences between Italy and other first world countries, could make that large of a difference in Corona deaths.

Yes we've always had a global society, but we've always had distinct cultures and borders as well, but of course we are all racist now because of that.

we have not always had a global society, not that long ago it took 6 weeks to get from Nee York to St Louis. Now I can see the most of the world in that amount of time.

COVID-19 will be the start of the end of Globalisation of this Global Society, the result is going to be more borders closed permanently to NON-Western peoples. What this has all illustrated is that if you do business with say China or India or whatever you do NOT PHYSICALLY have to have them in the room with you, you CAN conduct business via Skype or other platforms by doing Conference Calls etc

So what we will end up having is Global Trade via modern technology but a DRAMATIC limiting of Global Travel AND also Immigration from areas of this planet that are considered not as hygienic as Western nations and especially from nations who eat wild animals and from this spread diseases like COVID-19 and Ebola etc

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

Not sure what you're driving at with this but not only is there a fire, a couple of the doors might be locked. 785 deaths today in the US alone. But yeah, nothing to worry about.
No one is engaging with this because everybody on your linked study died after getting the coronavirus. Nothing to discuss.

So you leftists gained another 785 votes

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

Not sure what you're driving at with this but not only is there a fire, a couple of the doors might be locked. 785 deaths today in the US alone. But yeah, nothing to worry about.
No one is engaging with this because everybody on your linked study died after getting the coronavirus. Nothing to discuss.

So you leftists gained another 785 votes

Yup. Confirms it. Make America Stupid Again. Trump supporters and right wingers to a "T".

 

[Disir]

The worst case of abuse of the truth concerning this virus has been in Italy where over 88% of alleged deaths due to coronavirus were misattributed. In other words, 9 out of every 10 deaths in Italy stated as due to coronavirus are likely false. For more information about the Italian scam, see these links here, here, here, and here. If things continue as of late, the U.S. will be the next country to completely shut down, claiming death numbers that are also extremely misleading, and in fact could be outright lies.
[/QUOTE


There is no "Italian scam". That's nonsense. Everyone was aware that the elderly were dying because of the complications to chronic diseases.

No scam.

 

[DrLove]

What a ******* stupid post from RW Brit tabloids.

Corona would rarely be listed as THE cause of death unless the actual cause couldn't be pinpointed more precisely. For instance, cause of death might be listed as "respiratory failure" because people who contract the virus can't breath.

You think they're gonna run autopsies on each of thousands of bodies or what?

Keep whistling past the graveyard - Hopefully it doesn't reach out from the grave and grab your sad ass by the ankle

 

[DrLove]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

Oh, good. Then we can just stand down and not worry about the pandemic. Thanks man!

You can cower in fear if you like.

You should go lick the nearest playground equipment, escalator handrail or sneeze guard just to prove what a badass ya are!

 

[Contumacious]

The worst case of abuse of the truth concerning this virus has been in Italy where over 88% of alleged deaths due to coronavirus were misattributed. In other words, 9 out of every 10 deaths in Italy stated as due to coronavirus are likely false. For more information about the Italian scam, see these links here, here, here, and here. If things continue as of late, the U.S. will be the next country to completely shut down, claiming death numbers that are also extremely misleading, and in fact could be outright lies.
[/QUOTE


There is no "Italian scam". That's nonsense. Everyone was aware that the elderly were dying because of the complications to chronic diseases.

No scam.

There are two hotspots in the world for coronavirus infections: Wuhan, China (Hubei Province) and Italy. Both of these geographic areas were grappling with tuberculosis outbreaks prior to the eruption of the mutated COVID-19 coronavirus.


.

 

[DrLove]

When will Italy start using chloroquine for their coronavirus patients?

I mean....seriously

what are they waiting for????

I just don't understand it.

Good question.
They'll be reconsidering having 30,000 Chinese migrant workers
in their garment factories from now on.

Absolutely!

Hope they learn their lessons....they wanted all their clothes to say Made in Italy.... instead to Made in China...so they brought in thousands of Chinese workers.

And that's where Italy is now...because of their stupidity ...they are in the midst of Hell.

Oh well...later rather than sooner ....they will understand (we hope)

As if Chinese people somehow uniquely carry the virus. You're a racist pig.

The Chinese did carry this virus around the world.

And the virus was manufactured and leaked into the public by CHINESE scientists IN CHINA. And the first cases in the world appeared IN CHINA. So Chinese Virus IS the correct name for the affliction. Thank Wu (pun intended) very much!

I'm beginning to figure that while you have decent taste in music, there won't be a cure for your belief in idiotic conspiracy theories. Carry on!

 

[Disir]

The worst case of abuse of the truth concerning this virus has been in Italy where over 88% of alleged deaths due to coronavirus were misattributed. In other words, 9 out of every 10 deaths in Italy stated as due to coronavirus are likely false. For more information about the Italian scam, see these links here, here, here, and here. If things continue as of late, the U.S. will be the next country to completely shut down, claiming death numbers that are also extremely misleading, and in fact could be outright lies.
[/QUOTE


There is no "Italian scam". That's nonsense. Everyone was aware that the elderly were dying because of the complications to chronic diseases.

No scam.

There are two hotspots in the world for coronavirus infections: Wuhan, China (Hubei Province) and Italy. Both of these geographic areas were grappling with tuberculosis outbreaks prior to the eruption of the mutated COVID-19 coronavirus.


.

Approximately half of all TB cases were reported from four states.
In 2018, among U.S. states, the majority of TB cases continued to be reported from 4 states: California (23.2%), Texas (12.5%), New York (8.3%), and Florida (6.5%).

Trends in TB

Information on the trends of TB in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

There is no information on 2019.

 

[DrLove]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

You're simply wrong, and the Telegraph article you cited proves it. The virus was probably a contributing factor in most of the deaths in Italy. In other words, if they had not contracted covid-19, most of them would still be alive. Here are some extracts from the article:

“The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older - the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” Prof Ricciardi says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.

This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions. Experts have also warned against making direct comparisons between countries due to discrepancies in testing.

But there are other factors that may have contributed to Italy’s fatality rates, experts say. This includes a high rate of smoking and pollution - the majority of deaths have been in the northern region Lombardy region, which is notorious for poor air quality.

You can read the whole article here:

Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy?

The country's high death toll is due to an ageing population, overstretched health system and the way fatalities are reported

www.telegraph.co.uk

Well, we're not going to argue with you. Or at least I'm not.

The official from Italy said specifically that many of the people on the list, had died with Corona, not specifically because of Corona. That means, exactly that. The statistics coming out of Italy, are not excluding people who died from other causes. Only that they had Corona.

If I have heart failure, and I die from heart failure, and I happen to have Corona when I die of heart failure... Corona didn't do that. Heart failure did.

So, I am inclined to believe that it is possible the numbers are exaggerated in Italy. You disagree, that's fine.

Could it be possible, in your universe, if your already-compromised heart failed as the result of a cascading escalation of health issues which resulted from contracting covid-19, and that the virus CONTRIBUTED to your death? Do you claim that they are completely unrelated? You simply don't want to admit that this pandemic is real.

Do not put words in my mouth. I never said the Pandemic isn't real. You are just a liar that wants to claim others believe things they don't, because you have nothing of value to add to this conversation.

(how do you like it, when people make up stuff about you?)

Anything can contribute to your death. If you get shot, and are dying, you could contract Corona just before being shot, or during your time in the hospital while dying. That doesn't mean Corona killed you, over being shot.

That's all the guy from Italy was pointing out.

By any measure the death rate in Italy is extremely high, relative to the death rates we've seen from Corona elsewhere in the world.

That suggests two possibilities.

One, they are attributing far more to Corona, than people who are actually dying from Corona.

Two, socialized health care in Italy sucks many times worse than we could imagine.

Either of those are acceptable possibilities.

I apologize for assuming that you don't believe this pandemic is real. I hate it when people put words in my mouth, and I don't want to do it to anyone else. So, now that we've established that this pandemic IS real, I don't agree that there are only the two possibilities that you listed which explain the situation in Italy. If you read the Telegraph article (or even just the extracts that I excerpted), you'd see that there are other factors: Italy has an older population, which tends to have more health issues, many are smokers, there is worse air pollution, etc.

Yes it is real, and unless you are very old and in bad health, it's no more dangerous than a seasonal flu. The median age of the dying in Italy is 78 and 98% had severe comorbidities.

And you got your medical degree from what institution... ?

I thought it was obvious - Trump University!!

 

[DrLove]

When will Italy start using chloroquine for their coronavirus patients?

I mean....seriously

what are they waiting for????

I just don't understand it.

Good question.
They'll be reconsidering having 30,000 Chinese migrant workers
in their garment factories from now on.

Absolutely!

Hope they learn their lessons....they wanted all their clothes to say Made in Italy.... instead to Made in China...so they brought in thousands of Chinese workers.

And that's where Italy is now...because of their stupidity ...they are in the midst of Hell.

Oh well...later rather than sooner ....they will understand (we hope)

As if Chinese people somehow uniquely carry the virus. You're a racist pig.

Zika is Racist!!
Ebola- RACIST!!

Right?

Is Zika called the Brazilian virus?

If we started calling the Chinese virus the Wuhan virus would that satisfy you? Or still RACIST!?

Yes, still racist. Why not call it the coronavirus, since that is its name?

That is not it's name- it's actually Covid 19 and most have adopted that moniker.

Regardless, calling it the "Wuhan virus" or the "Chinese Virus" is not racist. Chinese is not a race, it's a nation.

Pandemics have a long history of being named after their place of origin. This is simply more Covfefe-16.....

Interesting, then why wasn't the Spanish Flu called the Kansas flu - Where it originated?