Would you support renewable no matter what the climate does?

[Samson]

Last week TWO of obama's clean energy companies declared bankruptcy, after they got millions in government money and after they made hefty donations of that grant money back to democrats.

Investment is the right thing to do, that's private investment. The government has no right to invest in or support any company with my money. When a company takes private investments they must produce. When it's government grant money, they need produce nothing. They are answerable to no one.

They, in fact, "invest" in failure.

AMTRAK and USPS and Fanny Mae might hear you.

 

[Saigon]

But they didn't because all this "green energy" crap is pure snake oil.

Right.

So Scotland did not recently confirm a sale of 200 tidal turbines at US$10 million per unit earlier this year?

How much snake oil do you get for $2,000,000?

Personally, I'd say that money was worth having - but it only came after significant investment in tidal technology took place in the UK in the 1980s.

And no - I'm not kidding.

 

[Oddball]

How much in subsidies (i.e. taxpayer "investments") did those turbines receive?

Oh, and how might we expect tidal turbines to provide electricity in Topeka or Calgary?

 

[Saigon]

Oddball -

The turbines are manufactured by a privately owned company.

Whether they have ever received any seed capital or taxpayer investment from the UK government I have no idea - but if they did, I would think it has been money well spent, wouldn't you?

Who suggested Calgary use tidal power?

Nobody.

 

[Oddball]

Didn't ask you whom was producing them....Boeing is a private company that makes all sorts of war weaponry with hundreds of billions in taxpayer "investments".

But I do find your willful ignorance as to where the money to manufacture those apparati comes from instructive. ...Shows that it's really all about you padding your portfolio more so than anything else.

 

[freedombecki]

There's no such thing as One Size Fits All.

Windmills are a great source of energy - in places that get lots of wind and aren't in bird migration zones.

Solar power is wonderful - in places that get lots of sun.

I've seen both applied in the wrong places. But even where windmills are viable, why is there just one type - those mega giant huge ugly things? Why aren't there smaller ones on the market for smaller communities or farms? Where are the horizontal windmills?

Coal is declining. It is not going to last forever. It may well not last throughout our lifetimes. Even with mountaintop destruction it's expensive to mine and transport, and the clean coal factories don't operate cheaply.

If there were lots and lots of natural gas, why is fracking necessary? Why do they have to extract it from shale instead of from wells? Because there aren't any more wells?

Is anyone burning shit? Farms have an awful lot of manure, why aren't more farm communities powering up with methane?

"Windmills are a great source of energy - in places that get lots of wind and aren't in bird migration zones."

I've checked all my ornithology maps. There isn't a square inch of ocean or windswept land where birds don't fly. The places chosen for windmill farms in the past are killing some of the world's most hardy raptors, adapted to those areas, and now are threatened. Without them, in areas of their carrion selection, truly bad diseases would prosper if dead animals were left to rot on roadsides. Other birds found dead near windmills, such as the osprey, are now being placed at risk. Nobody knows when a flock of birds flies over sometimes because they're asleep or travel before or after most people wake up or lay down.

See?

Or on your next visit to the Mountains, how'd you like to see this?

​

 

[there4eyeM]

Answer to original question:

Yes.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well, I support tax credits for the end user- residential, small commercial.

But not to the manufacturer. And I don't support the manufacture of alternatives/renewables components financed with money that is taxed away from the producers of hydrocarbons.

Why the hell should someone who buys a consumer product from a private company get a pass on income taxes?

I'm still trying to figure out why "private" oil companies get to use "public" lands for their "private" use. For all the tax credits the oil companies get they should almost be a government operation. They get government subsidies, get to use government land, and still want government tax credits. Their "private" profits are around record setting levels almost half the time if not more.

So 2 wrongs make a right huh?

 

[skookerasbil]

nobody cares about renewables really. They get some token mention from time to time ( like in the debate) but nobody with half a brain takes them seriously. Go google ANY graph of our energy consumption 25 years from now and all you see is this tiny laughable sliver of color.



What dominates the graphs???



COAL



NATURAL GAS



NUCLEAR

 

[skookerasbil]

Oh.......cant pass up this opportunity to remind the k00ks...................

Id suggest clearing out the medicine cabinet of all the dangerous stuff while you still have time...........

 

[freedombecki]

nobody cares about renewables really. They get some token mention from time to time ( like in the debate) but nobody with half a brain takes them seriously. Go google ANY graph of our energy consumption 25 years from now and all you see is this tiny laughable sliver of color.

What dominates the graphs???
COAL
NATURAL GAS
NUCLEAR

Yep. And what is avoided? Yep. Green Energy Fails:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6SuCut91WY]Out of control Windmill - YouTube[/ame]

 

[tjvh]

Would you support renewables no matter what the climate does? Yes, as I feel wind, solar and wave energy have a place and must be developed. Honestly, I feel there's a market for it and climate plays no part in my support for it.

Electric cars=
Lower imports from the middle east

Solar, wind, wave=energy we don't have to pound out of the ground. Making it easier.

I do not support renewable energy if that renewable is made from food that people eat. Ethanol is a prime factor in higher grocery bills here in the U.S... In undeveloped Nations that depend on America's export of food it's a factor in starvation.

 

[skookerasbil]

Would you support renewables no matter what the climate does? Yes, as I feel wind, solar and wave energy have a place and must be developed. Honestly, I feel there's a market for it and climate plays no part in my support for it.

Electric cars=
Lower imports from the middle east

Solar, wind, wave=energy we don't have to pound out of the ground. Making it easier.

I do not support renewable energy if that renewable is made from food that people eat. Ethanol is a prime factor in higher grocery bills here in the U.S... In undeveloped Nations that depend on America's export of food it's a factor in starvation.

Ethanol is a prime factor in higher grocery bills here in the U.S


Not even a factor in the thinking of the k00ks. To them, the use of renewables is a zero sum game. It is the essence of their connect the dots issues. It is also a mental condition..........and indeed, it is fascinating to me.

 

[tjvh]

Would you support renewables no matter what the climate does? Yes, as I feel wind, solar and wave energy have a place and must be developed. Honestly, I feel there's a market for it and climate plays no part in my support for it.

Electric cars=
Lower imports from the middle east

Solar, wind, wave=energy we don't have to pound out of the ground. Making it easier.

I do not support renewable energy if that renewable is made from food that people eat. Ethanol is a prime factor in higher grocery bills here in the U.S... In undeveloped Nations that depend on America's export of food it's a factor in starvation.

Ethanol is a prime factor in higher grocery bills here in the U.S


Not even a factor in the thinking of the k00ks. To them, the use of renewables is a zero sum game. It is the essence of their connect the dots issues. It is also a mental condition..........and indeed, it is fascinating to me.

Oh I forgot... The nuts don't notice higher grocery prices when the extent of their participation is swiping their EBT cards.

 

[skookerasbil]

I do not support renewable energy if that renewable is made from food that people eat. Ethanol is a prime factor in higher grocery bills here in the U.S... In undeveloped Nations that depend on America's export of food it's a factor in starvation.

Ethanol is a prime factor in higher grocery bills here in the U.S


Not even a factor in the thinking of the k00ks. To them, the use of renewables is a zero sum game. It is the essence of their connect the dots issues. It is also a mental condition..........and indeed, it is fascinating to me.

Oh I forgot... The nuts don't notice higher grocery prices when the extent of their participation is swiping their EBT cards.

LMO..........yeah, but these people on this forum have not intellectual problems. Its a thought processing issue. There is a difference. It is why you never see me calling them idiots or retarded. In lay terms, people with thought processing disorders are known as ........ahem......mental cases. Fixable with pharmacholoigical aids ya know..........

 

[Katzndogz]

But they didn't because all this "green energy" crap is pure snake oil.

Right.

So Scotland did not recently confirm a sale of 200 tidal turbines at US$10 million per unit earlier this year?

How much snake oil do you get for $2,000,000?

Personally, I'd say that money was worth having - but it only came after significant investment in tidal technology took place in the UK in the 1980s.

And no - I'm not kidding.

All of the countries that you claim have had success with tidal energy are all very small countries. Some are islands totally surrounded by a tidal field. The US has a tidal power station in Maine and it contributes slightly to the power grid, just not enough to power Kansas City.

 

[Ernie S.]

I do not support renewable energy if that renewable is made from food that people eat. Ethanol is a prime factor in higher grocery bills here in the U.S... In undeveloped Nations that depend on America's export of food it's a factor in starvation.

Ethanol is a prime factor in higher grocery bills here in the U.S


Not even a factor in the thinking of the k00ks. To them, the use of renewables is a zero sum game. It is the essence of their connect the dots issues. It is also a mental condition..........and indeed, it is fascinating to me.

Oh I forgot... The nuts don't notice higher grocery prices when the extent of their participation is swiping their EBT cards.

That and it buys votes in Iowa...

 

[westwall]

Absolutely.

In three generations people will not believe that instead of using fossil resources to make advanced polymers inexpensively, we chose instead to literally set them on fire.

I understand You sincere concerns, but as a (retired) chemical (& military) engineer I have to inform You, hopefully You don`t take it the wrong way that "we" don`t burn the crude oil fraction which is used to make polymers...!
That stopped after almost all refineries in the western ( & free market ) countries quit simple crude oil distillation and tarred our roads with what was left behind. Except for countries like China and so on who really don`t give a damn about the environment. I read not just the U.S. newspapers but also all the main European news and have seen all this "big oil" bashing especially so (again) in the count down to Your election in the U.S....about the "dirty oil"...the Keystone pipeline that Mitt Romney wants to green light to bring our Alberta Oil directly to Your refineries in Texas...

Northern pipelines.wmv - YouTube


Instead of Americans buying oil from rather rogue States who have as little regard for the environment as for human rights. In Canada we have now a conservative majority Government after many years of way left of center Liberal Government that paid a lot of lip service to the environment, raised gasoline taxes and built wind mill farms...in short copied what Germany has done and long since found out that the only way to make these work is at a huge environmental impact and co$t

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2H38UpdQhM&list=UUvj7dbOY14kt_MFIR1Y1iwA&index=28&feature=plcp"]How Climate Science destroyed Germany.wmv - YouTube[/ame]

This is the only way wind and solar can serve as a power on demand grid as the industry and Your house hold needs it. To do that You can`t just build wind mills and hook these up to a main power grid...but as You can see in the video there is way more to it. Non-engineers just can`t understand what it takes to phase in a large generator to a grid at precisely the right phase angle so that the generator does not pose a load but adds power to the main grid. To do that when wind and solar fluctuates the only way to adapt "renewable energy" was by decapitating most of the world famous black forest hill tops to install huge water storage basins that run hydro-electric turbines from the water that wind and solar "farms" pump up there when they supply power when there is no use for it, but can`t supply when there is at peak demand times. In addition to that entire mountain regions have been tunneled like Swiss cheese at astronomical costs...hydro rates in Germany have gone up just this week by another whopping 47 % to finance this "green power" insanity.
I grew up in a well to do neighborhood, mostly lawyers, surgeons, investment brokers,...and so and ....

My "hood" in Landsberg.wmv - YouTube

and they are the only ones with expensive solar arrays on their rooftops...something not too many people with "Jo the plumber" jobs could afford..and who are being hurt severely by all these "green taxes" on regular fuel and electricity. My friend Stephan who drives that nice vintage Ford Mustang is a (very rich) stock broker, drives only exotic gas guzzlers and made a fortune in solar and wind energy investments, courtesy of the "enviro- conscious" taxpayer who is being told to drive expensive and silly electric toy-cars that can`t even make it from Landsberg to the nearby Oktoberfest in Munich. He has been laughing all the way to the bank ever since this crap got started in earnest...now even more so with the new "Carbon Credit" trade.
But hey despite that we are still good friends and they all send me (video) birthday greetings like that every year.

Canada`s PM Stephen Harper is quite a bit more right wing than Mitt Romney will ever be...but I do know for a fact that the "right wing" has it right...I know for a fact because I did work for environment Canada as a research Chemist during the years when Canada signed the Kyoto accord..and made a complete joke out of this department...it was in short order staffed no longer by scientists but a bunch of left wing radical political hacks with huge budgets.
Our "Oil lobby right wing Government" has been doing and is planning to do...

weird,... the screenshots show up in the editor window, but not in the post preview...well no matter, it`s getting late and I`ll call it a day


Now just to show You an example what the "Green party NDP and the left wing Liberals have done...a video I made today when I drove to Minnedosa to have my income tax done shows what I meant by that
Minnedosa Manitoba - YouTube

15 years ago they built a heavily (tax) subsidized "Bio-fuel" plant in this charming Prairie town...and it`s thee biggest polluter for miles and miles around, fogging and stinking up the entire river valley...but the management drives "politically correct" cars and the "gophers" run their errands in thee most ridiculous "pick up trucks" that I have ever seen.
The "Bio-fuel" Ethanol plants in North Dakota and Minnesota are even way more messy than this one. Go there and check in their backyard where the hopper trucks dump the corn down the chutes...You won`t like the stench and the rats...and quite often You can`t see what`s in front of You on I-29 when You pass by there. It`s completely fogged in on colder days just like Minnedosa or Gimli.
The energy budget for this Ethanol"fuel" is also beyond ridiculous if You factor in the fertilizer, the tractor fuel, the fuel for the hopper trucks that bring the corn and how much energy is required to distill 1 liter of fuel grade ethanol. But hey Obama won`t shut these down,...we will soon in Canada.

Do like one of the GOP TV ads says "I`m an energy voter" and don`t fall for 4 more years of the same (Democrat) crap that Germans want to get rid off , they found out after it was too late...and if Obama gets re-elected You may some day too..
But hey...it`s Your soup and I know time will prove that American engineers will come to the same conclusion as German engineers who had been rail-roaded when the likes of "green Peace" and other ***.orgs foisted all these green energy pipe dreams on the German tax payers.
By the way German engineers have been making synthetic fuel big time during WW2...but that is taboo "Nazi technology"...which was called project "Blech Hammer". It converted coal into high grade Diesel and high octane gasoline. The only country which did it again after WW2 was South Africa when it was under a world wide boycott for human rights violations.
All it takes is coal, limestone, electricity and water...from that You can also make all the starting materials for all the oil based polymers.
Ca +2C===> CaC2 (Calcium Carbide) +H2O===> HCCH (Acetylene )==>( @ 400 C & "copper wool" catalyst)===> C6H6 (Benzene) and that You can already use as jet or diesel fuel or crack & extend to octane or cetane...or any carbon chain length You please. "Blech Hammer" has even made the world`s first synthetic rubber...check You war history records. Allied bomber command had the motto "every bomb landing on Blech Hammer means no rubber tires for Messerschmidt fighter planes"
That ("Blech Hammer") will be thee energy source of the future...the same energy source from Germany`s darkest past,...that powered German Blitzkrieg tanks, Stuka`s and the famed ME-262 jet fighter.
Not "wind or solar power" or any of theses silly "bio fuels" ,...mark my word

Nice tank on the plinth! It's a M4E8 (also called the Easy Eight because it had a smooth ride due to its improved Horizontal Volute Spring Suspension as opposed to the earlier Vertical Volute Spring Suspension) and was used towards the end of WWII and on into Korea.

 

[westwall]

While renewable energy sources MIGHT someday be useful, they aren't today so I would not support forced development of renewable energy under any circumstances.

Actually they are already far, far beyond being merely useful - but only in countries where companies aren't hampered by cave-dwelling Neanderthals promoting coal like He Who Can Not Be Contradicted.

btw, Katz - why did you never go back to that thread to admit that th Messiah's 47% comment was wrong, after you swore it was right?

Really? Care to show us where. Germany is going to be building some new COAl fired plants. Spain has to supplement their solar with oil fired power plants. Nowhere are renewables capable of providing the energy needs of even a small town. On an individual basis they can in certain areas, but scaled up you're living in fantasy land. Not surprising based on your lack of journalist and research skills you demonstrate on an almost daily basis.

 

[westwall]

Invest your own money, you cheapskate.

I don't know about Wry Catcher, but I have shares in a Climate/Energy Technologies fund - mainly investing in Scotland, South Korea, Japan, Norway and Germany.

My fund is up 5% this year, mainly on the back of the massive growth in tidal turbine sales.

I'm not aware of any US companies who receive investment through the fund. I wonder if one of the reasons for that is the amazing cynicism some Americans have towards concepts like tidal. Maybe your companies have just missed that boat.

Yes, your fund is up because the taxpayers of those countries are FORCED to pay for the technology at an exhorbitant rate. When the tax subsidy go's away your "investment" will collapse in minutes so I'd keep a close eye on the politics there.