Wondering? What's Important?

[Annie]

Links at site. I'm never going to the left, but am disgusted by the 'right.' Truly, totally disgusted. There would have to be a change to get me to vote for a GOP Presidential or Congressional nominee today. Here's one person's opinion on an important point, any other suggestions?

I won't 'sit out' an election, but may well vote for losers, just not of DNC or GOP and hoping eventually there will be enough to constitute a third party. I do so wish the Libertarians weren't such dipwads:

http://anglosphere.com/weblog/archives/000283.html

March 02, 2006
India Plays the Anglosphere Card

Via Vodkapundit, here's a wrapup of Bush's visit to India and the new US-Indian deal signed there. The Vodkapundit titled the link "Welcome to the Anglosphere". The comments on his post are interesting, too. My favorite (referring to media reports of 10,000 anti-Bush protestors there) was:

10 thousand protest Bush? Bah! More people gather to watch when a cow upsets a hawker's handcart on an Indian Street!
Bush's approval is at 40% in US, v/s 54% in India. That coupled with our population being more that thrice that of US means we have much more Bush fans than entire US population! We love him because we are a pragmatic bunch who can cut through the PC/lefty/dhimmi cr@p and see who is fighting the good fight.

Posted by Tushar D at March 2, 2006 02:18 PM

As to where India stands with the Anglosphere, well, that's a work in progress. The key issue at this point is the rate at which English fluency and Anglosphere-linked jobs (IT and call-center) penetrate below the traditional English-speaking elites of India. That appears to be happening at a fast, maybe even exponential rate. At some point before too long (probably between 2015 and 2020) India will have more home users of English than the US; not much longer afterwards, there could be more home users of English in India than the rest of the Anglosphere combined. This (especially given the cheapness of electronic publishing and dissemination) will mean that the bulk of English-language media will be produced in India. (If Bollywood learns how to appeal to US audiences, which it eventually will, that will also be true of visual media as well.) That means that not only will the Anglosphere change India, but India will change the Anglosphere.

Not many people are thinking about what this really means. They should be. Bush's trip to India, and the deal made there today, may end up being the single most consequential act of the Bush presidency.

 

[manu1959]

Links at site. I'm never going to the left, but am disgusted by the 'right.' Truly, totally disgusted. There would have to be a change to get me to vote for a GOP Presidential or Congressional nominee today. Here's one person's opinion on an important point, any other suggestions?

I won't 'sit out' an election, but may well vote for losers, just not of DNC or GOP and hoping eventually there will be enough to constitute a third party. I do so wish the Libertarians weren't such dipwads:

http://anglosphere.com/weblog/archives/000283.html

why does this disgust you so much?

 

[Annie]

why does this disgust you so much?

It's obvious that something was pushing this and other deals. I don't know what, may be nothing much worrying about. Though I do doubt it. On the other hand, the basic deal now is Congress has 45 days, to wait for the 'agencies' to complete research, then approve.

Something is wrong with the parameters.

May be innocuous, but it stinks. They've lost me, for now.

 

[manu1959]

It's obvious that something was pushing this and other deals. I don't know what, may be nothing much worrying about. Though I do doubt it. On the other hand, the basic deal now is Congress has 45 days, to wait for the 'agencies' to complete research, then approve.

Something is wrong with the parameters.

May be innocuous, but it stinks. They've lost me, for now.

you mean the port deal or the new deal with india?

 

[Annie]

you mean the port deal or the new deal with india?

Neither. None of it matters now.

 

[manu1959]

Neither. None of it matters now.

yikes.....

 

[Annie]

Not necessarily aimed at India, Pakistan would do. It's just where this is all going. I think I liked the fuked up dictators better.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060303...elRyUD9xg8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

Bush Ushers India Into Nuclear Club

By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent 55 minutes ago

Reversing decades of U.S. policy, President Bush ushered India into the world's exclusive nuclear club Thursday with a landmark agreement to share nuclear reactors, fuel and expertise with this energy-starved nation in return for its acceptance of international safeguards.

Eight months in the making, the accord would end India's long isolation as a nuclear maverick that defied world appeals and developed nuclear weapons. India agreed to separate its tightly entwined nuclear industry — declaring 14 reactors as commercial facilities and eight as military — and to open the civilian side to international inspections for the first time.

The agreement must be approved by Congress, and Bush acknowledged that might be difficult because India still refuses to sign the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty.

"I'm trying to think differently, not stay stuck in the past," said Bush, who has made improving relations with India a goal of his administration. Celebrating their agreement, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said, "We have made history today, and I thank you."

The deal was sealed a day before Bush begins an overnight visit to Pakistan, a close ally struggling with its own terrorism problems. An American diplomat and three other people were killed when a suicide attacker rammed a car packed with explosives into theirs. The bombing was in Karachi, about 1,000 miles south of Islamabad, the Pakistani capital, where Bush will meet with Pervez Musharraf, the military leader who took power in a 1999 coup.

U.S. officials said there was evidence the U.S. diplomat, foreign service officer David Foy, was targeted.

"Terrorists and killers are not going to prevent me from going to Pakistan," Bush said at a news conference with Singh in New Delhi.

Bush aides said there were security concerns about the president going to Pakistan but that officials were satisfied adequate precautions were in place. "But this is not a risk-free undertaking," said national security adviser Stephen Hadley.

The U.S.-India nuclear deal was seen as the centerpiece of better relations between the world's oldest and most powerful democracy and the world's largest and fastest-growing one.

The United Nations' nuclear watchdog agency, the International Atomic Energy Agency, gave its endorsement Thursday, calling the deal "an important step towards satisfying India's growing need for energy, including nuclear technology and fuel, as an engine for development."

"It would also bring India closer as an important partner in the nonproliferation game," IAEA Director-General Mohamed ElBaradei said in a statement.

India has more than 1 billion people, and its booming economy has created millions of jobs along with consumer demands that have attracted American businesses. India's middle class has swelled to 300 million — more than the population of the United States. Still, 80 percent of Indians live on less than $2 a day.

Bush acknowledged that Washington and New Delhi were estranged during the Cold War, when India declared itself a nonaligned nation but tilted toward Moscow. "Now the relationship is changing dramatically," he said.

Bush began the day by paying respects at a memorial to Mohandas K. Gandhi, India's independence leader and apostle of nonviolence. Following tradition, the president and his wife, Laura, left their shoes behind. Bush also conferred with the CEOs of Indian and American businesses, religious leaders and the head of India's political opposition.

Bush and Singh announced new bilateral cooperation on issues from investment, trade and health to agriculture, the environment and even mangoes. Bush agreed to resume imports of the juicy, large-pitted fruit after a 17-year ban.

The president ended the day at a state dinner with Indian President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam under a crescent moon in a lush courtyard of the presidential palace. Waiters in red tunics and red-and-white turbans scurried to serve broccoli-almond soup, seafood and peach ice cream after toasts of mango juice by the two heads of state.

The nuclear agreement drew fire from congressional critics.

"With one simple move the president has blown a hole in the nuclear rules that the entire world has been playing by and broken his own word to assure that we will not ship nuclear technology to India without the proper safeguards," said Rep. Edward Markey (news, bio, voting record) of Massachusetts, senior Democrat on the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said he looks forward to receiving "detailed briefings" from the administration.

"While I believe that the Congress will support this agreement, it is important to take into consideration the nonproliferation concerns raised by some of my colleagues," he said.

In New York, John Bolton, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, defended the deal.

"India and Pakistan had never signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty and therefore they weren't in violation of it by having nuclear programs," he said.

Bush said helping India with nuclear power would reduce the global demand for energy which has sent gasoline prices soaring.

"To the extent that we can reduce demand for fossil fuels, it will help the American consumer," Bush said.

It also could be a boon for American companies that have been barred from selling reactors and material to India.

Critics have complained the deal rewards bad behavior and undermines efforts to prevent states like Iran and North Korea from acquiring nuclear weapons. The White House said India was unique because it had protected its nuclear technology and not been a proliferator.

The administration also argued it was a good deal because it would provide international oversight for a program that has been secret since India entered the nuclear age in 1974.

"In its largest sense, in the geopolitical sense, the agreement today removes a basic irritant in the relations between India and the United States over the last 30 years," said Nick Burns, undersecretary of state for political affairs."

The agreement has no impact on India's nuclear weapons program. "It's not a perfect deal in the sense that we haven't captured 100 percent of India's nuclear program," Burns acknowledged.

The agreement grew out of an accord Bush and Singh signed last July to establish a new relationship in civil nuclear energy.

The United States and other countries slapped sanctions on India and Pakistan after they conducted nuclear weapons tests in 1998. But those penalties were lifted after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, when the United States sought allies against al-Qaida.

 

[lily]

Reversing decades of U.S. policy, President Bush ushered India into the world's exclusive nuclear club Thursday with a landmark agreement to share nuclear reactors, fuel and expertise with this energy-starved nation in return for its acceptance of international safeguards.

Your boldened paragraphs don't bother me as much as my one boldened word does Katherine. Am I reading this article wrong, and other articles I have read? Isn't this "selling" our nuclear secrets?

 

[Mariner]

deal makes perfect sense. India is not an aggressive country, is the world's largest democracy, and should have the most positive possible relationship with the U.S. The one thing that bothers me about Indian policy is Kashmir.

Kashmir is a gorgeous place. Think Colorado, doubled. The mountains are twice as high (literally), the streams babble correspondingly faster, the trees and wildflowers are amazing, and the whole lush thing sits up in the Himalaya like a Shangri-la, just a few valleys away from lunar landscape of the Tibetan plateau.

Kashmir has a huge place in the Indian imagination, and for decades was the preferred honeymoon destination and movie scenery for the Indian audience.

I've ridden on horseback there through fields of wild irises, surrounded by towering icy mountain peaks. Unforgettable.

But--Kashmir is predominantly Muslim, like neighboring Pakistan. I personally think India should therefore give up its Kashmiri ambitions and respect the will of the people there to either be autonomous or to join with Pakistan (if the people are smart, they'll vote to be part of a democracy).

So, I wish that Bush would now pressure India on this question. Despite India's generaly pacifism, this one conflict could start a nuclear war, and simply isn't worth it.

As for all this internationalism giving you a bad stomach, Kathianne, welcome to the global future. America has had its century. The next one might be India's, and the one after that Africa's (given that most human genetic diversity, and hence the best humans at every possible skill, are there).

Mariner (who is Hindu, whose family was evicted forcibly from Pakistan by the Muslims, and who loves Kashmir dearly--but loves fairness more)

 

[Annie]

Your boldened paragraphs don't bother me as much as my one boldened word does Katherine. Am I reading this article wrong, and other articles I have read? Isn't this "selling" our nuclear secrets?

who the hell is Katherine? I'm not that enamored with you or myself. What was sold?

 

[lily]

who the hell is Katherine? I'm not that enamored with you or myself.

I'm sorry, Kathianne. This is only my second or third post here. I'm not famillar with the posters here. I got your name wrong.

As I explained to the gentleman who welcomed me yesterday, I left another board because of the pissing contests. Found this one, and it looked not only intelligent, but friendly. Perhaps I was wrong.

What was sold?

Reversing decades of U.S. policy, President Bush ushered India into the world's exclusive nuclear club Thursday with a landmark agreement to share nuclear reactors, fuel and expertise with this energy-starved nation in return for its acceptance of international safeguards.

If we are agreeing to share expertise, aren't we in reality agreeing to "sell" our nuclear secrets, in exchange for them signing the agreement?

It's a harmless question. I only brought it up, because it was my main concern. You're may be just as valid. :hail:

 

[Annie]

I'm sorry, Kathianne. This is only my second or third post here. I'm not famillar with the posters here. I got your name wrong.

As I explained to the gentleman who welcomed me yesterday, I left another board because of the pissing contests. Found this one, and it looked not only intelligent, but friendly. Perhaps I was wrong.






If we are agreeing to share expertise, aren't we in reality agreeing to "sell" our nuclear secrets, in exchange for them signing the agreement?

It's a harmless question. I only brought it up, because it was my main concern. You're may be just as valid. :hail:

What I saw is that we'll discuss/share the civilian uses, as India is NOT an oil producer, but rather an overpopulated country, with many poor that can use electrification.

You have a major problem with that?

 

[dilloduck]

Maybe the thinking behind this lies in the fact that the more nuclear energy India uses, the less oil they use resulting in a larger supply of oil. Too bad the US won't rely on nuclear energy as much as it could.

 

[lily]

What I saw is that we'll discuss/share the civilian uses, as India is NOT an oil producer, but rather an overpopulated country, with many poor that can use electrification.

You have a major problem with that?

No......I have no problem with sharing the expertise of civilian use of nuclear power. What I do have a problem with is sharing the expertise of nuclear bombs.

I have no clue, what them not being an oil producer has to do with anything.

 

[Annie]

No......I have no problem with sharing the expertise of civilian use of nuclear power. What I do have a problem with is sharing the expertise of nuclear bombs.

I have no clue, what them not being an oil producer has to do with anything.

Separates India from Iran, in case that is used as an analogy. Where did you get nuclear bomb sharing from anywhere?

 

[manu1959]

No......I have no problem with sharing the expertise of civilian use of nuclear power. What I do have a problem with is sharing the expertise of nuclear bombs.

I have no clue, what them not being an oil producer has to do with anything.

india has the bomb....they don't produce oil they buy it if we get them on nuke enrergy rather than oil....we don't compete with them for oil....

 

[lily]

Well Kathianne, since this will be my last post here. Since ya'll aren't that welcoming to new posters.......let me ask you a question.......you can't possibly be that naive to think that nuclear expertise, is limited to nuclear power, can you?

Don't leave me haning for your reply, before I log off and delete this forum from my bookmark.

 

[dilloduck]

Well Kathianne, since this will be my last post here. Since ya'll aren't that welcoming to new posters.......let me ask you a question.......you can't possibly be that naive to think that nuclear expertise, is limited to nuclear power, can you?

Don't leave me haning for your reply, before I log off and delete this forum from my bookmark.

IF you get offended that easily ----

 

[Said1]

Well Kathianne, since this will be my last post here. Since ya'll aren't that welcoming to new posters.......let me ask you a question.......you can't possibly be that naive to think that nuclear expertise, is limited to nuclear power, can you?

Don't leave me haning for your reply, before I log off and delete this forum from my bookmark.

It all depends on where the nuclear waste from commercial use is going. If you think they will be keeping it, I have some beach front property up north I might be able to sell you. Reeeeaaaaaaaaallllllll cheap.

Oh, and welcome. Teehee.

 

[dilloduck]

It all depends on where the nuclear waste from commercial use is going. If you think they will be keeping it, I have some beach front property up north I might be able to sell you. Reeeeaaaaaaaaallllllll cheap.

Oh, and welcome. Teehee.

Good point---gonna be tons of dirty bo-- er nuclear waste laying around somewhere.