Wind Turbines Contributing to Man Made Global Warming

[Crick]

Your whole take on climate change is a joke. How can anyone differentiate between when you are serious and when you are joking--do you know?

Because I am either spouting mainstream science or absurdity. Elektra had been implying that wind turbines required petroleum-based lubricants, which he repeatedly described as "fossil fuels", and that this made wind turbines a global warming contributor. I responded that I didn't care if he used coal tar, the lubricants were not a source of GHG emissions. Would YOU have taken that as a suggestion that we should actually use coal tar? I doubt it. The problem here is Elektra.

 

[elektra]

the lubricants were not a source of GHG emissions.

The Wind Turbine lubricants are made from fossil fuels, natural gas to be exact. In this refinery, tell us how this is not emitting GHG emissions

 

[Grumblenuts]

ALL HANDS! Be advised not to attempt humor with poster Elektra. He won't get it and will assume you are being serious. Or attempt humor that works specifically in that mode.

Funny People Have Higher IQs Than Their Dull Peers

Both men and women rate funny people as more attractive, too.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Crick]

Funny People Have Higher IQs Than Their Dull Peers

Both men and women rate funny people as more attractive, too.

www.newsweek.com

And I'm a HUNK.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The Wind Turbine lubricants are made from fossil fuels, natural gas to be exact. In this refinery, tell us how this is not emitting GHG emissions

Great question. The purpose of lubricants is lubrication. They are not made specifically for wind turbines and they are not burned to produce heat or electrical power, releasing combustion products (GHGs) into the atmosphere through an exhaust pipe or chimney. Used lubricants generally get drained and recycled during routine maintenance.

 

[elektra]

the lubricants were not a source of GHG emissions.

The lubricants are made from fossil fuels, natural gas to be exact. In this refinery, tell us how this is not emitting GHG emissions

Great question. The purpose of lubricants is lubrication. They are not made specifically for wind turbines and they are not burned to produce heat or electrical power, releasing combustion products (GHGs) into the atmosphere through an exhaust pipe or chimney. Used lubricants generally get drained and recycled during routine maintenance.

Manufacturing lubricants for wind turbines, releases GHGs into the atmosphere

 

[elektra]

And I'm a HUNK.

Hunk of?

 

[Crick]

The lubricants are made from fossil fuels, natural gas to be exact. In this refinery, tell us how this is not emitting GHG emissions

Whatever the lubricant used, it is not intentionally burned when used and the quantities are absolutely trivial compared to the quantities of fuel burned in any of the traditional tech power plants.

Manufacturing lubricants for wind turbines, releases GHGs into the atmosphere

I rather doubt it is produced by combustion. Let's look

Wikipedia has a nice article.

Synthetic oil is a lubricant consisting of chemical compounds that are artificially modified or synthesised. Synthetic lubricants can be manufactured using chemically modified petroleum components rather than whole crude oil, but can also be synthesized from other raw materials. The base material, however, is still overwhelmingly crude oil that is distilled and then modified physically and chemically. The actual synthesis process and composition of additives is generally a commercial trade secret and will vary among producers.

Full​

Some "synthetic" oil is made from Group III base stock, some from Group IV. Some from a blend of the two. Mobil sued Castrol and Castrol prevailed in showing that their Group III base stock oil was changed enough that it qualified as full synthetic. Since then API has removed all references to Synthetic in their documentation regarding standards. "Full synthetic" is a marketing term and is not a measurable quality.

Feel free to read the whole article. There is no mention of burning anything. It doesn't provide a detailed description of the process but given that they are all trade secrets, that might be an issue.

Here is a thorough article on the production of petroleum based lubricants.

Lubricating Oil - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

They are manufactured by distillation and dewaxing. Neither of those processes involved combustion. I suggest you familiarize yourself with what are call "cat-cracking" towers. These are the functional core of any petroleum refinery and where the bulk of processing is done to produce fuels and oils.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Manufacturing lubricants for wind turbines

You quoted me. What didn't you understand about "They are not made specifically for wind turbines"?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Since the use of wind turbines for electricity generation is centered around increasing the global utilization of environmentally-friendly energy sources, it is critical that the products used to maintain wind turbines also support this honorable initiative. If there is a leak in the hydraulic system of a wind turbine, released lubricant fluid can contaminate the ground and even reach nearby water supplies. Researchers have therefore investigated the application of biodegradable hydraulic oils to address this concern. Hydraulic oils, which originate from natural mineral oils, demonstrate the potential to be a safe alternative to synthetic lubricants that could otherwise contaminate land or water sources.

They focus upon reducing pollution of the ground and waterways, not the atmosphere of course. But what a disgusting industry nonetheless:

"Hydraulic oils" .. "demonstrate the potential to be a safe alternative"

As if fracking fluids had been deemed just fine and dandy all of a sudden

 

[elektra]

You quoted me. What didn't you understand about "They are not made specifically for wind turbines"?

we are in a wind turbine thread, discussing the lubricants for wind turbines, and the lubricants used in wind turbines are specifically made for wind turbines, they are not made for anything else

 

[elektra]

Whatever the lubricant used, it is not intentionally burned when used and the quantities are absolutely trivial compared to the quantities of fuel burned in any of the traditional tech power plants.

I rather doubt it is produced by combustion. Let's look

Wikipedia has a nice article.

We are not speaking of whatever, we are talking about synthetic lubricants designed for Wind Turbines.

You doubt? I never stated they were produced by combustion.
But they are made here, in this refinery, does this refinery emit GHGs? Does it emit CO2. Does combustion occur at this refinery. The answer is yes.

 

[elektra]

Whatever the lubricant used...

They are manufactured by distillation and dewaxing. Neither of those processes involved combustion. I suggest you familiarize yourself with what are call "cat-cracking" towers. These are the functional core of any petroleum refinery and where the bulk of processing is done to produce fuels and oils.

No, not whatever, we are talking about only one thing, synthetic lubricant for wind turbines.

High-performance metallocene polyalphaolefin​

https://www.exxonmobilchemical.…

SpectraSyn Elite mPAO advanced synthetic base oil is designed to provide better blending efficiency and performance capabilities than conventional polyalphaolefin (cPAO). More than 30% of the high-viscosity synthetic base stock market has already switched from cPAO to mPAO.

 

[elektra]

They are manufactured by distillation and dewaxing. Neither of those processes involved combustion. I suggest you familiarize yourself with what are call "cat-cracking" towers. These are the functional core of any petroleum refinery and where the bulk of processing is done to produce fuels and oils.

No combustion involved in the manufacturing of Synthetic Oil, or more accurately, polyalphaolefin-based, synthetic oils and lubricants.

Polyalpholefins, or olefins, is manufactured with a steamcracker, in this particular steamcracker, I can see on the left that it is being heated with natural gas, to 700 - 800 degrees

I have physically worked on hydro crackers for ExxonMobile. So I am a bit familiar with the processes. I need not google search to tell you, combustion is involved, as refining, or cracking, requires heat, a lot of heat. In this steam cracker which is relevant to the conversation, you can actually see fire in the lower left.

Cat-cracking, catalyst cracking being the term you should be using, is not much different. Both require a lot of energy, much of that is natural gas. Here, the source I have linked to explains for you crick, that it is temperature that is used to crack, the different compounds, temperature, pressure, cooling, different chemicals as well.

Unlike water, crude is not a single chemical compound, but rather thousands of different chemical compounds. Some of these compounds are as simple as methane (CH4) or more complex such as isooctane (C8 H18). The important point to remember is that each one of these compounds has its own boiling temperature.

https://www.pro-quip.com/images/proquip/PDFs/Refining%20Industry%20Guide.pdf

What is Steam Cracking / Pyrolysis? - AONG website

What is Steam Cracking? by: Souad LOUSDAD Alongside with the “Conversion Processes “and the “thermal cracking”, there is the “steam cracking” or “Pyrolysis”. Hydrocarbon steam cracking is one of the most important processes in the petrochemical industry, as it is able to produce highly valuable...

www.arab-oil-naturalgas.com

 

[elektra]

Whatever the lubricant used, it is not intentionally burned when used and the quantities are absolutely trivial compared to the quantities of fuel burned in any of the traditional tech power plants.

They are manufactured by distillation and dewaxing. Neither of those processes involved combustion. I suggest you familiarize yourself with what are call "cat-cracking" towers. These are the functional core of any petroleum refinery and where the bulk of processing is done to produce fuels and oils.

I thinks, to make the lubricants you speak of, combustion is used by burning natural gas to create that 1650 degree temperature. And as I said note, you can see all my posts are thoroughly researched. This is not the first time I have linked, as crick new in the past, I think crick must be old and forgetful, old crock old in fact, because I have linked many times in response to crick. Either way, the idea that combustion is not used, or that GHGs are not created, is really an ignorant response by crick
https://www.pro-quip.com/images/proquip/PDFs/Refining Industry Guide.pdf

Olefins Process The olefins reaction is thermal pyrolysis. Temperature is 1400° to 1650° F (760° to 899° C) with contact time of 0.3 to 0.8 seconds. Feed is preheated to around 900° F (482° C) and enters a radiant section of the pyrolysis furnace. The actual reaction takes place in the furnace tube, and the furnace effluent is quickly quenched below reaction temperature.

 

[justoffal]

Its not just that but they cause Windmill Cancer and kill Bald Eagles

Turbo generators inside the wind turbines also produce nitrogen oxide from the arcing. Nitrogen oxide is a greenhouse gas.

 

[Crick]

Turbo generators inside the wind turbines also produce nitrogen oxide from the arcing. Nitrogen oxide is a greenhouse gas.

I'm assuming by "turbo generators", you mean the generators inside wind turbines. The NO2 produced by their arcing - which is minimized by design - is trivial.

How do i generate nitrous oxide from a electrical arc?

hi, i have a home-made high voltage power supply which produces an arc of about 1 inch long maximum, which i assume is about 20KV, how can i generate nitrous oxide with this spark? will you give me more information about what chemicals/gases are produced from an arc, and what the...

www.physicsforums.com

 

[justoffal]

I'm assuming by "turbo generators", you mean the generators inside wind turbines. The NO2 produced by their arcing - which is minimized by design - is trivial.

How do i generate nitrous oxide from a electrical arc?

hi, i have a home-made high voltage power supply which produces an arc of about 1 inch long maximum, which i assume is about 20KV, how can i generate nitrous oxide with this spark? will you give me more information about what chemicals/gases are produced from an arc, and what the...

www.physicsforums.com

No argument...

 

[elektra]

I'm assuming by "turbo generators", you mean the generators inside wind turbines. The NO2 produced by their arcing - which is minimized by design - is trivial.

How do i generate nitrous oxide from a electrical arc?

hi, i have a home-made high voltage power supply which produces an arc of about 1 inch long maximum, which i assume is about 20KV, how can i generate nitrous oxide with this spark? will you give me more information about what chemicals/gases are produced from an arc, and what the...

www.physicsforums.com

crick you scream and cry making all kinds of accusations, and then when I reply with technical facts, you hide, you wont respond, you ignore the replies to your accusations, you know why that is?

Crick does not know anything about wind turbines and solar panels, nothing, hence all I hear is, CRICKETS

Crick, this is where synthetic oil is manufactured, does this refinery emit CO2 and other GHG's, yes it does

 

[Crick]

crick you scream and cry

Show us all an example of me screaming and crying. if you're unable to do so, admit it.

making all kinds of accusations

J'accuse!!! Accusations of what? Being ignorant? Being overly concerned with how you appear to the audience here? Being a liar and an asshole?

and then when I reply with technical facts

Do you mean facts as you've done here? Well, we'll get to that in just a second.

,you hide, you wont respond, you ignore the replies to your accusations, you know why that is?

Yes. It is because I have a life. I walk my dog. I go to the store for groceries or hardware or my wife and I go out to eat. We both like to take pictures and we visit parks, gardens, waterfalls and historical sites in our area. And during all those activities, I do not participate on this discussion board. And I don't want to hurt your feelings, but sometimes when I come here, I reply and respond to OTHER posters.

Crick does not know anything about wind turbines and solar panels, nothing, hence all I hear is, CRICKETS

How many wind turbines and solar panels have YOU found in SubBase or the yards? I assume you're an electrician. Plenty to do on the boats, but no wind turbines and no solar panels.

Crick, this is where synthetic oil is manufactured, does this refinery emit CO2 and other GHG's, yes it does

1) What facility is this? You've posted this photograph repeatedly but I have never seen you identify the location. For all we can tell, they might be making cat litter here. Let's see if Google can find it for us.

I'd say this was it.

Steam cracking - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Steamcracker II at the BASF site in Ludwigshafen/Germany

Steam cracking is a petrochemical process in which saturated hydrocarbons are broken down into smaller, often unsaturated, hydrocarbons. It is the principal industrial method for producing the lighter alkenes (or commonly olefins), including ethene (or ethylene) and propene (or propylene). Steam cracker units are facilities in which a feedstock such as naphtha, liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), ethane, propane or butane is thermally cracked through the use of steam in steam cracking furnaces to produce lighter hydrocarbons. The propane dehydrogenation process may be accomplished through different commercial technologies. The main differences between each of them concerns the catalyst employed, design of the reactor and strategies to achieve higher conversion rates.[1]​

Olefins are useful precursors to myriad products. Steam cracking is the core technology that supports the largest scale chemical processes, i.e. ethylene and propylene.[2]​

​

"Myriad products". So this facility does a great deal more than make synthetic lubricants. Let's have a look at how much CO2 is produced by a typical refinery.

A refinery may use about 1.5% up to 8% of feed as fuel, depending on the complexity of the refinery. For a typical world-scale 300,000 barrel per day refinery, this will lead to CO2 emissions ranging from 0.8 up to 4.2 million tons of CO2 per year. CO2 may be emitted at refineries from a variety of sources.​

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​

Sorry for the ridiculous URL​

​

300,000 bbl/day x 55 gal/bbl x 365 days/yr = 6,022,500,000 gallons produced for, let's call it, 2.5 million pounds of CO2. The only figure I've heard for lubricants on a wind turbine said 12 gallons. Let's change it once a month. 144 gallons/year. So 144 gal x 2,500,000 pounds CO2 / 6,022,500,000 gal/yr = slightly less than ONE OUNCE OF CO2 produced manufacturing a years worth of lubricants for a wind turbine.